I'm bothered by the fact that during Punkhazard Law mentioned something like don't tell Joker that he's here . Meaning that in one sentence Law had just told his potential enemies that he knew about Dolflamingo. From, my observation I think that Monet and C.C are not stupid people and from what We saw Vergo with being there on Punkhazard I think that for six months they've been scheming with Dolflamingo. What annoys me how surprised Law was when he saw Vergo.
I was like, Hello. Dude You mentioned to your enemies that you know all about who Joker really is.Why wouldn't Mingo sent one of his big guns Admittedly, I didn't think Law would've predicted Vergo being there.
Things in One Piece that bother you
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Wouldn't them stomping every fight be incredibly boring? I'm finding Enies Lobby intensely boring so far and that's long before the time-skip
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It irks me to no end when fans call Hancock "Boa." It's like calling some of the main cast Monkey, Roronoa, and Nico. Plus, it doesn't help when there's already two other sisters in the Boa family.
On that note, it also bugs me when fans refer to Ryokugyu as "Green Bull" and call the rest of the admirals by their Japanese names.
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Lufi
Zorro
Ussop
Frankie
Brooke -
@Medical:
The fact that we still don't know who threw the "Don't do anything" note is eating away at me. Someone please ask Oda in an SBS.
16 chars of what?
@Speedo, he's referring to Punk Hazard Arc, where Chopper got a note saying "Don't Do Anything".
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@White:
@Speedo, he's referring to Punk Hazard Arc, where Chopper got a note saying "Don't Do Anything".
Yup, I wrote something about it and explained what I think happened and I unfortunately didn't use the quote reply option to Speedo's response/comment. It's a my bad on my part . I do believe that my response is still on this page. Basically, I think that Law threw the paper.
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Hi all
I'm behind in the story just past the time skip but can anyone tell me if Oda-san ever explains (in an SBSperhaps)why
Chopper doesn't know the fake straw hats are just that from his sense of smell? Also is it not strange that no one comments on Zorro eye injury? That's a pretty big event. I'm wondering if it's not polite in Japanese to mention this or did I just miss it? -
Oda lowballing sanji.
Bunch of characters who should have died. -
@zeff:
Oda lowballing sanji.
Bunch of characters who should have died.I don't think he's lowballing him. I mean, the last thing we saw him doing was mounting an assault on Big Mom's ship. Fishman Island was the only time I ever felt any real disservice was done to the character. He's been on a solid climb back up ever since.
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Hi all
I'm behind in the story just past the time skip but can anyone tell me if Oda-san ever explains (in an SBSperhaps)why
Chopper doesn't know the fake straw hats are just that from his sense of smell? Also is it not strange that no one comments on Zorro eye injury? That's a pretty big event. I'm wondering if it's not polite in Japanese to mention this or did I just miss it?He doesn't explain any of this iirc.
Chopper doesn't notice because of his naivety and the Fake Hats' comic relief shield.
As for Zoro's eye, wounds and especially scars are a man's past and 'pride'! A Man does not 'question' another man's 'pride'! Even Sanji will not ask upon, and thus pays 'respect' to Zoro's 'pride'!Actually nobody mentions aything about Zoro's eyes. It may be an aesthetic addition to make Zoro look cooler, or some event with Mihawks training. It is most certainly not hawkeyes or any bullshit eye ability.
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I don't like how no body knows anything about the powerful characters. How the heck did no one know about Marco's mythical fruit abilities at Marineford, I mean first-division commander on Whitebeard's ship…. Kinda important fella. Even Admiral Kizaru was surprised. Reyleigh is just hanging out with celestial dragons and no one recognizes him or says anything to the Marines, Roger's first mate is all, nothing to worry about.
It bothers me that no one mentions the 2-year gap, and what happened, Zoro's eye for example. It will really bother me if Zoro met Shanks on Mihawk's Island and nothing was said hence his eye scar, doubt it, just something that I thought of. Why no one shows their true power yet, I don't think so at least. Robin and the Revolutionary Army... maybe something you want to share. Everyone else i don't really care as much. I feel like Sanji got a pretty bad set-up for when or if they flashback his 2-years. -
He doesn't explain any of this iirc.
Chopper doesn't notice because of his naivety and the Fake Hats' comic relief shield.
As for Zoro's eye, wounds and especially scars are a man's past and 'pride'! A Man does not 'question' another man's 'pride'! Even Sanji will not ask upon, and thus pays 'respect' to Zoro's 'pride'!Actually nobody mentions aything about Zoro's eyes. It may be an aesthetic addition to make Zoro look cooler, or some event with Mihawks training. It is most certainly not hawkeyes or any bullshit eye ability.[/QUOT
Thanks hey. I thought what happened to his eye might come up in a later ep at least. Oh well. I can stop waiting for someone to ask now :-)
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It's 11pm on a Wednesday night like 6 years later and the identity of that Florian Triangle mist monster is still bugging me on a semi-regular basis.
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Might sound typical of me being a women but. The sheer boob sizes are now retarded.
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Oda's df power logic is getting weird. I know that this is probably a symptom of a manga that has been going on for so long. Trebol should be a tar logia, none of this mysterious sticky element bs. Machvise doesn't need a df he has a huge weight on his back. Otherwise we get this almost-kilo kilo no mi but not quite nonsense.
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The Time Skip is bothering me and I'm beginning to get horrifyingly worried as i get closer and closer to it.
I pretty much started this series because I like and enjoy conflict. I like watching interesting villains fight against interesting characters with actual things at stake. I'm not against the cooldown arcs or the moments that exist to let us know that the straw hats are powerful. But now, after the awesomeness of the Whitebeard war, I'm nearing the time skip and over 100 episodes where the straw hats don't encounter anything remotely taxing fight. Luffy walks all over Caesar and Hody Jones from every single source I can see. I hate useless villains who can't get anything done or pose any kind of threat to the main characters. I find it intensely boring when the main characters spend all their time in combat showing off and being badass. I'm incredibly bothered that that's what I'll probably be experiencing once I hit the time skip. :( (shudders)
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The Time Skip is bothering me and I'm beginning to get horrifyingly worried as i get closer and closer to it.
I pretty much started this series because I like and enjoy conflict. I like watching interesting villains fight against interesting characters with actual things at stake. I'm not against the cooldown arcs or the moments that exist to let us know that the straw hats are powerful. But now, after the awesomeness of the Whitebeard war, I'm nearing the time skip and over 100 episodes where the straw hats don't encounter anything remotely taxing fight. Luffy walks all over Caesar and Hody Jones from every single source I can see. I hate useless villains who can't get anything done or pose any kind of threat to the main characters. I find it intensely boring when the main characters spend all their time in combat showing off and being badass. I'm incredibly bothered that that's what I'll probably be experiencing once I hit the time skip. :( (shudders)
No real spoilers bsince you already seem to know a bit, Hordy and Caesar, while being the "villains" of their arc are not the biggest threat, and there is legitimate danger for the Straw Hats in both arcs. They aren't just a cakewalk. Especially Punk Hazard. Fishman Island does have a chapter which is essentially dedicated to the Straw Hats showing just how strong they have become, but it is necessary for us to see some change in them; it's really demonstrating just how far they've come, especially compared to the last time they fought Fishmen.
Punk Hazard, there's maybe a tiny bit of showing off from Zoro, but that's about it. And in Dressrosa, shit has gotten real–it is far from a cakewalk.So, I guess I'm saying not to worry. Especially if you're watching the anime, because they unnecessarily made Hordy a much bigger threat than he was in the manga >_>
Oh, I also want to add that it is important to remember that Marineford was an anomaly for this series. It was unlike anything before, and while probably be unlike anything after. One-Piece has always been surprisingly less focused on fighting for a Shonen series, with much more importance placed on world building and storytelling. You can't let it skew your perceptions, or you'll end up disappointed.
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@Nex:
No real spoilers bsince you already seem to know a bit, Hordy and Caesar, while being the "villains" of their arc are not the biggest threat, and there is legitimate danger for the Straw Hats in both arcs. They aren't just a cakewalk. Especially Punk Hazard. Fishman Island does have a chapter which is essentially dedicated to the Straw Hats showing just how strong they have become, but it is necessary for us to see some change in them; it's really demonstrating just how far they've come, especially compared to the last time they fought Fishmen.
Punk Hazard, there's maybe a tiny bit of showing off from Zoro, but that's about it. And in Dressrosa, shit has gotten real–it is far from a cakewalk.So, I guess I'm saying not to worry. Especially if you're watching the anime, because they unnecessarily made Hordy a much bigger threat than he was in the manga >_>
Oh, I also want to add that it is important to remember that Marineford was an anomaly for this series. It was unlike anything before, and while probably be unlike anything after. One-Piece has always been surprisingly less focused on fighting for a Shonen series, with much more importance placed on world building and storytelling. You can't let it skew your perceptions, or you'll end up disappointed.
I'm more interested in engaging conflict than actual "fights" per say. I prefer planning to battling. I just really don't like all the things I've read about Luffy and Zoro demolishing everyone in the Fishman and Punk Hazard arcs for over 100 episodes.
and the fact that the anime made Hody more effective doesn't mean jack. Why couldn't he be dangerous to a fair degree in the manga too? You ust said that him being more dangerous was unnecessary too.
I'm not against having a less effective villain so you can focus on story. Like Wapol in the Drum Island arc. But that arc was only about 18 eps or something. Fishman island is is almost 3 times that.
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I'm more interested in engaging conflict than actual "fights" per say. I prefer planning to battling. I just really don't like all the things I've read about Luffy and Zoro demolishing everyone in the Fishman and Punk Hazard arcs for over 100 episodes.
and the fact that the anime made Hody more effective doesn't mean jack. Why couldn't he be dangerous to a fair degree in the manga too? You ust said that him being more dangerous was unnecessary too.
I'm not against having a less effective villain so you can focus on story. Like Wapol in the Drum Island arc. But that arc was only about 18 eps or something. Fishman island is is almost 3 times that.
Fishman Island was the first real arc post timeskip, if the Straw Hats had struggled it would have made the time skip seem rather useless. Hordy was a joke. He was supposed to be. He was a racist blinded by unadulterated hate. And at the end of the day, he was not even the biggest threat in Fishman Island. Luffy still "struggles" with him a bit, and when everything is said and done, this is probably the second closest he's ever come to dying, but it's not because Hordy was super strong or anything.
The best way I can put it is like this: Hordy was an incredible effective villain, for what his purpose in the story was. He was a humongous threat, but just not to the Straw Hats. Fishman Island gets a lot of flack from people around here, and it is probably among the "worse" arcs of the series, but Oda had a strong intent for the Arc, and he succeeded there. FI was the resolution to the Arlong Arc in many ways. It brought a lot of Nami's past to the forefront again, and it illustrated just how far the Straw Hats have come since then. If you remember, Sanji and Zoro couldn't even touch Arlong. This arc is to say, they could easily beat him now.
As for Punk Hazard, yes, Caesar is not the most difficult villain for Luff, but he is still an incredible threat to most everyone else, and he's not even the most dangerous guy in the arc. Punk Hazard was hardly a cakewalk for anyone, and it did challenge the Straw Hats.
You seem to have these (incorrect) pre conceived notions of arcs you have not even read yet, based on what others have to say, and if you carry these with you into the arcs, you're probably going to end up disliking them, but then it will be your fault.
The time skip has not harmed One-Piece in any way, and I think very few people, if any, would say that it has.
I'm one of the few who enjoyed FI more than most, because it is so important to the overall story of the series, that the short fights and wonky pacing are easily forgiven; Punk Hazard was a blast with one of the most enjoyably hateable villains in the series thus far with lots of great art and character interactions; and Dressrosa is shaping up to be one of my absolute favorite arcs of the entire series.I will say, that you will probably find things a lot more aggravating if you're watching the anime, however. Because FI's pacing is atrocious. Absolutely some of the worst the anime has ever done.
Just try and forget about whatever it is you read and go into it all with an open mind, and you'll probably find yourself surprised.
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@Nex:
Fishman Island was the first real arc post timeskip, if the Straw Hats had struggled it would have made the time skip seem rather useless. Hordy was a joke. He was supposed to be. He was a racist blinded by unadulterated hate. And at the end of the day, he was not even the biggest threat in Fishman Island. Luffy still "struggles" with him a bit, and when everything is said and done, this is probably the second closest he's ever come to dying, but it's not because Hordy was super strong or anything.
The best way I can put it is like this: Hordy was an incredible effective villain, for what his purpose in the story was. He was a humongous threat, but just not to the Straw Hats. Fishman Island gets a lot of flack from people around here, and it is probably among the "worse" arcs of the series, but Oda had a strong intent for the Arc, and he succeeded there. FI was the resolution to the Arlong Arc in many ways. It brought a lot of Nami's past to the forefront again, and it illustrated just how far the Straw Hats have come since then. If you remember, Sanji and Zoro couldn't even touch Arlong. This arc is to say, they could easily beat him now.
As for Punk Hazard, yes, Caesar is not the most difficult villain for Luff, but he is still an incredible threat to most everyone else, and he's not even the most dangerous guy in the arc. Punk Hazard was hardly a cakewalk for anyone, and it did challenge the Straw Hats.
You seem to have these (incorrect) pre conceived notions of arcs you have not even read yet, based on what others have to say, and if you carry these with you into the arcs, you're probably going to end up disliking them, but then it will be your fault.
The time skip has not harmed One-Piece in any way, and I think very few people, if any, would say that it has.
I'm one of the few who enjoyed FI more than most, because it is so important to the overall story of the series, that the short fights and wonky pacing are easily forgiven; Punk Hazard was a blast with one of the most enjoyably hateable villains in the series thus far with lots of great art and character interactions; and Dressrosa is shaping up to be one of my absolute favorite arcs of the entire series.I will say, that you will probably find things a lot more aggravating if you're watching the anime, however. Because FI's pacing is atrocious. Absolutely some of the worst the anime has ever done.
Just try and forget about whatever it is you read and go into it all with an open mind, and you'll probably find yourself surprised.
The people I hear all this stuff from are the people who seem to endlessly gush about how badass the strawhats are. It's kind of a relief to hear someone talk about villains as being effective or good for their role in the story rather than going on about how awesome the straw hats are for stomping them like they do.
Doesn't Caesar knock out Luffy at one point?
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Okay. So I guess I should make a legit grievance I have with the story rather than worrying about things I haven't seen yet.
Haki. I don't like it. One of the things that attracted me to the series is that the devil fruits and all that kind of stuff lead to incredibly creative fights and situations. Luffy had to think to be able to defeat Crocodile and Enel had to think to get around Luffy's immunity to his powers. It also subverted the idea of the Sorting Algorithm of Evil by not introducing villains in order of necessarily power. Eneru was far stronger than CP9 and Moriah for instance. I found that kind of stuff really clever. But now we've pretty much determined that people with haki are better than people without it. And the powers of haki aren't very interesting. They just let you hit Logia users and beef up your attacks, which removes one of the things that made the story so cool. Fighting DF users was like a puzzle that needed to be solved. (like Kalifa said) you couldn't always beat them with raw force and power level.
I know he's not a logia user but I loved stuff like Buggy being utterly immune to Mihawk's sword techniques despite being infinitely weaker than him. That kind of stuff made combat fresh and exciting for me. It made me think that you could be the strongest man in the world but it wouldn't matter if your foe had the right fruit.
And the King's haki just seems to be a method of showing off how special Luffy is and the power is annoying anyway since it just bypasses fights and obstacles and everyone stands around in awe of it. It's not fun.
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To be fair, haki has been around since chapter 1. Or, if you don't like that idea, at the very least since Skypiea. The inherent idea is that everyone can use haki, at least the armament and observation kinds, they just need to train it.
That said, it is something I just had to kind of accept about the series. Right now it seems like a really weird plot device, but I'm sure its existence will make sense when we finally learn the origins of the devil fruit and the Will of D. Just something we'll have to wait a decade for.
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@Nex:
To be fair, haki has been around since chapter 1. Or, if you don't like that idea, at the very least since Skypiea. The inherent idea is that everyone can use haki, at least the armament and observation kinds, they just need to train it.
That said, it is something I just had to kind of accept about the series. Right now it seems like a really weird plot device, but I'm sure its existence will make sense when we finally learn the origins of the devil fruit and the Will of D. Just something we'll have to wait a decade for.
Don't you need to be born with the ability to use the Conquering King's haki though?
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Don't you need to be born with the ability to use the Conquering King's haki though?
That one yeah. But the other two everyone has access to, and those are probably more useful in the end. At least for when it comes to generally fighting other people.
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I couldn't agree more on what you said about haki, gingerninja666.
@Nex:
To be fair, haki has been around since chapter 1. Or, if you don't like that idea, at the very least since Skypiea. The inherent idea is that everyone can use haki, at least the armament and observation kinds, they just need to train it.
Sure it has… now. When Oda came out and said what happened in chapter 1 and Skypiea was haki, I felt it was a bit retconny. It seems to me that Oda finally got an idea as to what haki is and what he wanted to do with it around sometime when he was working on the CP9 arc. What better way to start showing it off with none other than Shanks, since he was the first to use it and all? This wasn't a bad idea at all as it explained what happened in chapter 1 and it also had a lot of mystery surrounding it. I know Teach made a comment on Luffy's ambition/haki in the Skypiea arc, but I don't know if Oda at the time had in mind then compared to what he started to show after Enies Lobby. Ever since early Sabaody or so, Luffy started showing signs of having haki (I believe the earliest was when they met the Flying Fish Riders) and then it increasingly started to get littered all over the place in the world of One Piece like it was something that was always there. Mantra was an interesting concept during Skypiea, and its explanation by Rayleigh was much needed, and it also fell perfectly into place with what Oda came up with. If haki is truly is a retcon, I'm not saying it's a bad thing as it explains things and keeps the story moving, but it suddenly took away a lot of chemistry and creativity in battles. Enemy has a logia fruit? Just equip haki and slug 'em.
I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it if most characters didn't have it and/or if it wasn't used as frequently. I know starting with Marineford it was a regular thing since big-league players were present, it's just now that since we're in the New World there are so many big-league players. Haki isn't fresh like the vast variety of devil fruits. The three different types of haki are all shared powers and it gets tiring. Before haki came along, Luffy overly relied on using his Gears, but I thought that was fine. Luffy's Gears were powerful, but were also a double-edged sword, such as when Lucci said Gear Second put too much strain on Luffy's body which in turn would shorten his life. Gear Third temporarily shrunk Luffy, making him extremely vulnerable. He had to think about when the best time was to use it or it could really put him and the rest of his crew in danger. This isn't even the case anymore. Luffy can use it consequence-free, and it bugs me because the side effect always made things really interesting and less… easy. Luffy seems like doesn't have any real setbacks anymore because of haki and the loss of repercussions from using his Gears. Luffy's not that smart and it was always impressive when he showed his genius in battle. Now he really doesn't have to think and come up with strategies. I don't really feel like he has any real obstacles (besides the sea) anymore. I know it's character development, but we're only halfway through the story and these problems were fixed offscreen between chapters 597 and 598. We didn't actually see these developments, we just saw the aftermath.
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@Nex:
That one yeah. But the other two everyone has access to, and those are probably more useful in the end. At least for when it comes to generally fighting other people.
The King's haki seems to have no use other than go "this character is special" or "this character is badass."
As my friends have said, it doesn't effect anyone strong enough to hinder the Hats in combat, but that's even worse. Because then it's only function is to show off and be gawked at. It's frustrating and feels more and more like it's making Luffy a chosen one which is a frustrating trope in and of itself.
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The King's haki seems to have no use other than go "this character is special" or "this character is badass."
As my friends have said, it doesn't effect anyone strong enough to hinder the Hats in combat, but that's even worse. Because then it's only function is to show off and be gawked at. It's frustrating and feels more and more like it's making Luffy a chosen one which is a frustrating trope in and of itself.
Yup. It's point is to mark someone as special who can lead others, hypothetically. And besides that it just makes for cool moments. Once we learn more about it, it'll probably be really cool. But yeah, as of right now it's essentially completely useless.
I'm not going to lie though, every time Luffy uses it I quite little sparkles in my eyes. Seeing all the plebs freaking out is always fun.
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@Mikey:
I couldn't agree more on what you said about haki, gingerninja666.
Sure it has… now. When Oda came out and said what happened in chapter 1 and Skypiea was haki, I felt it was a bit retconny. It seems to me that Oda finally got an idea as to what haki is and what he wanted to do with it around sometime when he was working on the CP9 arc. What better way to start showing it off with none other than Shanks, since he was the first to use it and all? This wasn't a bad idea at all as it explained what happened in chapter 1 and it also had a lot of mystery surrounding it. I know Teach made a comment on Luffy's ambition/haki in the Skypiea arc, but I don't know if Oda at the time had in mind then compared to what he started to show after Enies Lobby. Ever since early Sabaody or so, Luffy started showing signs of having haki (I believe the earliest was when they met the Flying Fish Riders) and then it increasingly started to get littered all over the place in the world of One Piece like it was something that was always there. Mantra was an interesting concept during Skypiea, and its explanation by Rayleigh was much needed, and it also fell perfectly into place with what Oda came up with. If haki is truly is a retcon, I'm not saying it's a bad thing as it explains things and keeps the story moving, but it suddenly took away a lot of chemistry and creativity in battles. Enemy has a logia fruit? Just equip haki and slug 'em.
I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it if most characters didn't have it and/or if it wasn't used as frequently. I know starting with Marineford it was a regular thing since big-league players were present, it's just now that since we're in the New World there are so many big-league players. Haki isn't fresh like the vast variety of devil fruits. The three different types of haki are all shared powers and it gets tiring. Before haki came along, Luffy overly relied on using his Gears, but I thought that was fine. Luffy's Gears were powerful, but were also a double-edged sword, such as when Lucci said Gear Second put too much strain on Luffy's body which in turn would shorten his life. Gear Third temporarily shrunk Luffy, making him extremely vulnerable. He had to think about when the best time was to use it or it could really put him and the rest of his crew in danger. This isn't even the case anymore. Luffy can use it consequence-free, and it bugs me because the side effect always made things really interesting and less… easy. Luffy seems like doesn't have any real setbacks anymore because of haki and the loss of repercussions from using his Gears. Luffy's not that smart and it was always impressive when he showed his genius in battle. Now he really doesn't have to think and come up with strategies. I don't really feel like he has any real obstacles (besides the sea) anymore. I know it's character development, but we're only halfway through the story and these problems were fixed offscreen between chapters 597 and 598. We didn't actually see these developments, we just saw the aftermath.
I've been reading this conversation about the post-time skip and Haki, and I'd just like to add my two cents.
First of all, I think Haki is not only a interesting and awesome aspect of One Piece, it's completely necessary. Otherwise Logia users are invincible (unless you have rare cases like Luffy being rubber hitting someone made of lightning). Haki also allows even more variation in fighting. Devil fruit users can combine their unique powers with haki for even more combinations, it keeps progression and prevents things from going stale. It would be boring if Luffy only had his moves from the start.
The element of progression is actually one of the most beautiful things about One Piece. It's such a long series that when you see the characters get new bounties and moves it's really exciting because you've waited so long for it and watched them work so hard.
I also don't understand why anyone would have sour tastes over the time-skip and how strong Luffy is afterwards. The main objective of the show is for Luffy to get stronger and stronger and become the strongest. Wouldn't make much sense if he became the pirate king and people still walked all over him. If you think about it, every fight luffy has had pre-time skip was down to the wire. He barely won against Rob Lucci (nothing against that amazing fight) and he lost against every other boss at least once or more. I didn't consider Luffy that strong until he started using his gears, and as soon as I saw him get small after Gear Third I immediately thought: "That's gotta go." At Marineford Luffy was running away from almost every threat and having people cover him all the time as he ran towards Ace. He basically died against Magellan and his bounty which we waited 300 episodes for was obsolete. The main character was nowhere near the top, and it was starting to get frustrating. That time skip was to demonstrate a change in the Strawhats, especially Luffy. His life changed entirely after marineford and it's refreshing to see him kick some ass for once, without much of a problem.
That being said, I agree with you in many aspects. I think Haki is lame in how everyone can use it, but maybe for a different reason than you. I remember seeing Luffy you Busoshoku Kouka for the first time and thinking how awesome it was, all that training he's done has paid off and so on, but then all of a sudden Vergo just uses it on his whole body. I thought that was gonna be unique to Luffy and it's not at all -and that's fine, but I'd hate to see Luffy just fall into the category of "just as strong as everyone else" again. He's not suppose to be. I thought gingerninga666 comment about how fights with devil fruit users used to be more like puzzles was absolutely brilliant, though. It's true that battles are more just brute force now.
Long story short, Fishman Island and Punk Hazard are good arcs. Haki is both interesting and necessary, and Luffy needs to stop just dying twice then winning a fight by the skin on his teeth. If he's gonna be the pirate king he's gonna have to stomp a few without a problem.
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I've been reading this conversation about the post-time skip and Haki, and I'd just like to add my two cents.
First of all, I think Haki is not only a interesting and awesome aspect of One Piece, it's completely necessary. Otherwise Logia users are invincible (unless you have rare cases like Luffy being rubber hitting someone made of lightning). Haki also allows even more variation in fighting. Devil fruit users can combine their unique powers with haki for even more combinations, it keeps progression and prevents things from going stale. It would be boring if Luffy only had his moves from the start.
The element of progression is actually one of the most beautiful things about One Piece. It's such a long series that when you see the characters get new bounties and moves it's really exciting because you've waited so long for it and watched them work so hard.
I also don't understand why anyone would have sour tastes over the time-skip and how strong Luffy is afterwards. The main objective of the show is for Luffy to get stronger and stronger and become the strongest. Wouldn't make much sense if he became the pirate king and people still walked all over him. If you think about it, every fight luffy has had pre-time skip was down to the wire. He barely won against Rob Lucci (nothing against that amazing fight) and he lost against every other boss at least once or more. I didn't consider Luffy that strong until he started using his gears, and as soon as I saw him get small after Gear Third I immediately thought: "That's gotta go." At Marineford Luffy was running away from almost every threat and having people cover him all the time as he ran towards Ace. He basically died against Magellan and his bounty which we waited 300 episodes for was obsolete. The main character was nowhere near the top, and it was starting to get frustrating. That time skip was to demonstrate a change in the Strawhats, especially Luffy. His life changed entirely after marineford and it's refreshing to see him kick some ass for once, without much of a problem.
That being said, I agree with you in many aspects. I think Haki is lame in how everyone can use it, but maybe for a different reason than you. I remember seeing Luffy you Busoshoku Kouka for the first time and thinking how awesome it was, all that training he's done has paid off and so on, but then all of a sudden Vergo just uses it on his whole body. I thought that was gonna be unique to Luffy and it's not at all -and that's fine, but I'd hate to see Luffy just fall into the category of "just as strong as everyone else" again. He's not suppose to be. I thought gingerninga666 comment about how fights with devil fruit users used to be more like puzzles was absolutely brilliant, though. It's true that battles are more just brute force now.
Long story short, Fishman Island and Punk Hazard are good arcs. Haki is both interesting and necessary, and Luffy needs to stop just dying twice then winning a fight by the skin on his teeth. If he's gonna be the pirate king he's gonna have to stomp a few without a problem.
But that's not fun for someone like me who likes the villains to be awesome and to get awesome hits in on the heroes as well. For me a hero is only as awesome as his opposition is. I don't look for heroes being badass. I know it's inevitable and I can tolerate it for a time. But 100 eps of Fishman and Punk hazard is a bit excessive for me to watch the heroes show off without having much of a problem.
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But is it bad that I kind of liked logias being "invincible"? They're supposed to be strong and dangerous; they're natural powers found in nature, and nature is cruel and quite the force to be reckoned with. For a fun series like One Piece, Oda has always shown creative ways to execute fights, even with logia users getting defeated. Now, just equipping haki and hitting them like it's nothing feels like a cop out…
By the way, I, too, was impressed and surprised when Luffy first started using haki, but that's because it was new and unexplained at the time. It got old and overused really, really fast after that. The lack of creativity bothers me.
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@Mikey:
But is it bad that I kind of liked logias being "invincible"? They're supposed to be strong and dangerous; they're natural powers found in nature, and nature is cruel and quite the force to be reckoned with. For a fun series like One Piece, Oda has always shown creative ways to execute fights, even with logia users getting defeated.
then you get Kizaru
That's not even fair anymore.
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then you get Kizaru
That's not even fair anymore.
I always thought that darkness could defeat him. or mirrors to reflect his powers maybe
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Yeah, it's not fair for Kizaru to have such a good fruit but devil fruits were never meant to be fair. Some have advantages and some have disadvantages, and I liked when their weak points were discovered. There's gotta be something out there to counter his fruit, you know? That's what made Eneru so great; he got carried away and thought he had no weaknesses, and then his natural enemy showed up.
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I always thought that darkness could defeat him. or mirrors to reflect his powers maybe
So Blackbeard has to beat Kizaru? And mirrors only reflect his attacks, not damage him.
But how do you hit someone made of light? Logias can remain in their state reflexively, and as far I can think of, there is no easily understandable method that could be him.
@Mikey:
Yeah, it's not fair for Kizaru to have such a good fruit but devil fruits were never meant to be fair. Some have advantages and some have disadvantages, and I liked when their weak points were discovered. There's gotta be something out there to counter his fruit, you know? That's what made Eneru so great; he got carried away and thought he had no weaknesses, and then his natural enemy showed up.
One Piece isn't Jojo's Bizarre Adventures, and even Jojo can't perfectly answer weaknesses to abilities. What can beat light? Anyway, whatever solution Oda might come up with would probably still be unsatisfactory, so Haki is okay with me that way. Kizaru still isn't irrelevant that way. Devil Fruit still are creative and interesting in battles.
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I'm not sure, but I bet if Oda didn't come up with haki, he would have found another way. I mean, he comes up with his own explanations, like how magma is dominant over fire and things like that. It may not be realistically correct, but it was creative and unexpected in comparison to haki. I have full confidence that if this was ten years ago, Oda would have definitely been able to come up with a creative way to defeat someone with light powers.
Just imagine if Luffy used haki in his first round against Crocodile; he would have most likely won due to being able to land hits on the man. But because he didn't have haki, it gave way to Oda fleshing out Luffy's genius in battle, which was good development for his character. It also made it a very interesting and creative fight. Figuring out that blood-soaked fists could land you a hit after several rounds of miserably failing is much more fun than Luffy just throwing a punch at someone with extraordinary powers but full-well knowing that doesn't matter because his fist will make contact regardless.
When Luffy first used Elephant Gun and his arm turned black, everyone thought it was because of vulcanization, which makes sense and it complemented Luffy's powers. Then everyone else's skin started turning black when they started using CoA haki, even though that didn't happen before.
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@Mikey:
I'm not sure, but I bet if Oda didn't come up with haki, he would have found another way. I mean, he comes up with his own explanations, like how magma is dominant over fire and things like that. It may not be realistically correct, but it was creative and unexpected in comparison to haki. I have full confidence that if this was ten years ago, Oda would have definitely been able to come up with a creative way to defeat someone with light powers.
Just imagine if Luffy used haki in his first round against Crocodile; he would have most likely won due to being able to land hits on the man. But because he didn't have haki, it gave way to Oda fleshing out Luffy's genius in battle, which was good development for his character. It also made it a very interesting and creative fight. Figuring out that blood-soaked fists could land you a hit after several rounds of miserably failing is much more fun than Luffy just throwing a punch at someone with extraordinary powers but full-well knowing that doesn't matter because his fist will make contact regardless.
When Luffy first used Elephant Gun and his arm turned black, everyone thought it was because of vulcanization, which makes sense and it complemented Luffy's powers. Then everyone else's skin started turning black when they started using CoA haki, even though that didn't happen before.
For everyone turning black when using CoA haki, I think it was to visualize that it was being used. I think it gives a cool affect, and he doesn't have to write CoA haki every time it's used. As far as creativity, I can understand it, but I think the problem lies at that point with if the way seems feasible and not stupid. With Aokige, you could argue that one would need heat, which Sanji could use, that would make sense. But what about Magma, light, and who knows what else in the future. Yes he could figure things out, but I think Oda has a lot of story stuff to concentrate on that he doesn't want to come up with how certain powers have to be beaten every time. I still think some characters will have to be creative in their fighting, because not all of them have Haki. We'll just have to wait to see how everything works out in the end, but Oda still has creative stuff going on.
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Okay, I'm rewatching the series again with my sis and I noticed another thing that bothered me immensely.
Nightmare Luffy.
Not the concept itself, just how it's used. I'm fine with Luffy absorbing shadows in order to get strong enough to defeat Oars, what i don't like is that he CURBSTOMPS Oars without a fight. he just spends ages one sidedly wailing on him while others stand around in awe. It's just a lame way for your villain to end up looking in my books.
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Fair enough. That's your opinion, and I respect it.
However, don't judge Fishman Island and Punk Hazard before you watch them. They're good arcs, and they don't just feature Luffy -there's other characters remember. And when Luffy fights he doesn't just use Haki -he still uses gear second and stuff. Have faith in the series.
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The Time Skip is bothering me and I'm beginning to get horrifyingly worried as i get closer and closer to it.
I pretty much started this series because I like and enjoy conflict. I like watching interesting villains fight against interesting characters with actual things at stake. I'm not against the cooldown arcs or the moments that exist to let us know that the straw hats are powerful. But now, after the awesomeness of the Whitebeard war, I'm nearing the time skip and over 100 episodes where the straw hats don't encounter anything remotely taxing fight. Luffy walks all over Caesar and Hody Jones from every single source I can see. I hate useless villains who can't get anything done or pose any kind of threat to the main characters. I find it intensely boring when the main characters spend all their time in combat showing off and being badass. I'm incredibly bothered that that's what I'll probably be experiencing once I hit the time skip. :( (shudders)
Then you have a problem called "reading the series for fights" which is a true problem.
Hody's dangerous because he's a terrorist who tries to start a race war.
Ceasar is SUPER dangerous because he's in high demand by all sorts of antagonist forces.
I mean what are you saying here? That what makes a good villain is how hard they can punch Luffy?
Ceasar fights in all sneaky ways, being avoidant and trying to gas and poison people. But mostly it's nothing to do with fighting. He's dangerous for more plot like reasons, which is infinitely more interesting and long term involved than a meathead villain who can go toe to toe with Luffy like Rob Lucci.
I'm not even someone who really cares about Ceasar that much. But fact is, he's been way more interesting and amusing AFTER defeat than before it.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Okay. So I guess I should make a legit grievance I have with the story rather than worrying about things I haven't seen yet.
Haki. I don't like it. One of the things that attracted me to the series is that the devil fruits and all that kind of stuff lead to incredibly creative fights and situations. Luffy had to think to be able to defeat Crocodile and Enel had to think to get around Luffy's immunity to his powers. It also subverted the idea of the Sorting Algorithm of Evil by not introducing villains in order of necessarily power. Eneru was far stronger than CP9 and Moriah for instance. I found that kind of stuff really clever. But now we've pretty much determined that people with haki are better than people without it. And the powers of haki aren't very interesting. They just let you hit Logia users and beef up your attacks, which removes one of the things that made the story so cool. Fighting DF users was like a puzzle that needed to be solved. (like Kalifa said) you couldn't always beat them with raw force and power level.
This hasn't changed. Only in regards to Logias. Paramecia fruits are every bit as problematic as they were before.
Haki can't stop Paramecias in any way. -
@Monkey:
Then you have a problem called "reading the series for fights" which is a true problem.
Hody's dangerous because he's a terrorist who tries to start a race war.
Ceasar is SUPER dangerous because he's in high demand by all sorts of antagonist forces.
I mean what are you saying here? That what makes a good villain is how hard they can punch Luffy?
Ceasar fights in all sneaky ways, being avoidant and trying to gas and poison people. But mostly it's nothing to do with fighting. He's dangerous for more plot like reasons, which is infinitely more interesting and long term involved than a meathead villain who can go toe to toe with Luffy like Rob Lucci.
I'm not even someone who really cares about Ceasar that much. But fact is, he's been way more interesting and amusing AFTER defeat than before it.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
This hasn't changed. Only in regards to Logias. Paramecia fruits are every bit as problematic as they were before.
Haki can't stop Paramecias in any way.Well, actually my fav villains in the series are Spandam and Moriah. I find the type of threat they pose due to connections, madness and intricate use of devil fruits far more interesting than their fights.
What I'm afraid of is that there won't even be that type of threat after the time skip, and the straw hats will go around easily solving everything.
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Well, actually my fav villains in the series are Spandam and Moriah.
Then you'll love Ceasar Clown.
What I'm afraid of is that there won't even be that type of threat after the time skip, and the straw hats will go around easily solving everything.
Don't be silly.
Hody is deliberately made easy to show how far they've come.
And Clown is Spandam mixed with Moria, they have to struggle against his tricks before Luffy gets to punch him out.
And I'm not sure if everyone's deliberately not mentioned who the villain of the next arc is, but it's obvious that Oda was just showing off how far they've come…so that they can more credibly deal with the real muscle of the New World. -
As far as Haki goes, I think it was already discussed earlier in this very thread (or in the " Things in One Piece that bother you" thread) between me and Greg but… Oda clearly had Haki in mind from the very start, and dropped little hints of its existence every 10 volumes or so.
The armaments however, seem to have come in later and that's why they comparatively feel out of place as a late addition to story... even though the groundwork for Ambition and Color of the King was there all along.
Not the concept itself, just how it's used. I'm fine with Luffy absorbing shadows in order to get strong enough to defeat Oars, what i don't like is that he CURBSTOMPS Oars without a fight. he just spends ages one sidedly wailing on him while others stand around in awe. It's just a lame way for your villain to end up looking in my books.
Nightmare Luffy didn't do any actual lasting damage to Oars, and as a zombie, Oars wasn't bothered by any of the attacks.
The effect Nightmare Luffy had in that fight was effectively nill… aside from allowing time for the strawhats to regroup.
It did however, provide a moment for Luffy to look badass... and give us an idea of how freakishly strong Moria must have been when he took shadows into himself. (If only he hadn't taken so many as to be uncontrollable.)
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As far as Haki goes, I think it was already discussed earlier in this very thread between me and Greg but… Oda clearly had Haki in mind from the very start, and dropped little hints of its existence every 10 volumes or so.
The armaments however, seem to have come in later and that's why they feel out of place as a late addition to story... even though the groundwork for Ambition and Color of the King was there all along.
Nightmare Luffy didn't do any actual lasting damage to Oars, and as a zombie, Oars wasn't bothered by any of the attacks.
The effect Nightmare Luffy had in that fight was effectively nill... aside from allowing time for the strawhats to regroup.
It did however, provide a moment for Luffy to look badass... and give us an idea of how freakishly strong Moria must have been when he took shadows into himself. (If only he hadn't taken so many as to be uncontrollable.)
Actually, Moriah was kicked out of the Warlords for being too weak, yet he was able to withstand a nightmare luffy tier gattling storm attack while that same attack from a completely normal and half dead Luffy managed to completely defeat Crocodile? Why weren't they on his case for being weak? Or was there some other reason they wanted Moriah gone?
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Actually, Moriah was kicked out of the Warlords for being too weak, yet he was able to withstand a nightmare luffy tier gattling storm attack while that same attack from a completely normal and half dead Luffy managed to completely defeat Crocodile? Why weren't they on his case for being weak? Or was there some other reason they wanted Moriah gone?
Moria didn't get hit by all those punches though, just a few. Oars took the brunt.
Plus weakness of a Shichibukai can't just concern straight ahead fighting.
With Thriller Barque gone you can imagine how lowered Moria's effectiveness at doing the main part of his job (fucking up pirates) was. -
@Monkey:
Moria didn't get hit by all those punches though, just a few. Oars took the brunt.
Plus weakness of a Shichibukai can't just concern straight ahead fighting.
With Thriller Barque gone you can imagine how lowered Moria's effectiveness at doing the main part of his job (fucking up pirates) was.Even then, wasn't he still skilled enough to be a big help in the Whitebeard War. Able to critically wound Oars Jr with the help of Kuma and managed to go toe to toe with a new world tier pirates confidentally. In fact the only time we see him being undone in the War arc is when Jinbe hit him.
It kinda just seemed like Moriah needed time to regroup to get his affairs back in order. I mean, he was able to recover from his complete defeat at the hands of Kaido.
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Actually, Moriah was kicked out of the Warlords for being too weak, yet he was able to withstand a nightmare luffy tier gattling storm attack while that same attack from a completely normal and half dead Luffy managed to completely defeat Crocodile? Why weren't they on his case for being weak? Or was there some other reason they wanted Moriah gone?
- Oars took those hits, and didn't care. Moria just got a tiny bit of it.
2)Just losing a single fight wasn't grounds to kick him out… but his entire setup was wrecked. No minions, no shadow supply, no giant island, a lack of willingness to accept help from Kuma to prevent an embarassing loss... and he'd been slacking off and falling out of shape and losing his personal battle ability... and then in the war he was pretty much wrecked by Jinbe and a little salt water, so word of his specific easy weakness was getting around.
Not to mention, his loss and subsequent return of the shadows all over the land let a thousand people and all their friends know publicly that Moria had been defeated by someone. (there was also that whole "I plan to become pirate king" thing that most of the warlords seem to want.)
I mean, he was able to recover from his complete defeat at the hands of Kaido.
If by "recover" you mean "hide in the easier oceans, get fat, lazy and dependent on others to the point he can lose to one of a dozen rookies all while refusing to accept help".
The point has been made pretty clear that Moria was stronger and more menacing back in the day, and that post Kaido he was left much weaker and desperate for a different strategy… and that strategy taht he spent a decade building up had been completely destroyed in one night.
He's going to be really interesting when we see him again.
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- Oars took those hits, and didn't care. Moria just got a tiny bit of it.
2)Just losing a single fight wasn't grounds to kick him out… but his entire setup was wrecked. No minions, no shadow supply, no giant island, a lack of willingness to accept help from Kuma to prevent an embarassing loss... and he'd been slacking off and falling out of shape and losing his personal battle ability... and then in the war he was pretty much wrecked by Jinbe and a little salt water, so word of his specific easy weakness was getting around.
Not to mention, his loss and subsequent return of the shadows all over the land let a thousand people and all their friends know publicly that Moria had been defeated by someone. (there was also that whole "I plan to become pirate king" thing that most of the warlords seem to want.)
It's just annoying. Moriah's laziness was why he was one of my fav villains. He seemed to rely on his powers and brains and trickery and it showed quite thouroughly how much what happened with Kaido broke his mind. It made him interesting and different to me. But it seems like the only competent people have to be the ones who are all physically tough and know Haki and shit.
Yeah, yeah, I know, the New World demands the best but it's still annoying cuz all the "top ranking Warlords" get on my nerves like Kuma and Mihawk. I just find em boring and very shoneny. And no matter what I try, I can't seem to force myself to like Doflamingo
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Well don't worry. Moria will be back eventually, in shape, and probably with haki, AND his strategies. And he'll likely be on the heroes side next time, so he'll be allowed to win some.
Heck, he's got Absalom running around spying and reporting on everyone currently. He's up to stuff.
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Well don't worry. Moria will be back eventually, in shape, and probably with haki, AND his strategies. And he'll likely be on the heroes side next time, so he'll be allowed to win some.
Heck, he's got Absalom running around spying and reporting on everyone currently. He's up to stuff.
So did moriah escape the Pacifistas using Absalom?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
- Oars took those hits, and didn't care. Moria just got a tiny bit of it.
2)Just losing a single fight wasn't grounds to kick him out… but his entire setup was wrecked. No minions, no shadow supply, no giant island, a lack of willingness to accept help from Kuma to prevent an embarassing loss... and he'd been slacking off and falling out of shape and losing his personal battle ability... and then in the war he was pretty much wrecked by Jinbe and a little salt water, so word of his specific easy weakness was getting around.
Not to mention, his loss and subsequent return of the shadows all over the land let a thousand people and all their friends know publicly that Moria had been defeated by someone. (there was also that whole "I plan to become pirate king" thing that most of the warlords seem to want.)
If by "recover" you mean "hide in the easier oceans, get fat, lazy and dependent on others to the point he can lose to one of a dozen rookies all while refusing to accept help".
The point has been made pretty clear that Moria was stronger and more menacing back in the day, and that post Kaido he was left much weaker and desperate for a different strategy... and that strategy taht he spent a decade building up had been completely destroyed in one night.
He's going to be really interesting when we see him again.
I dunno, again, his laziness and dependance on other people is why i liked him so much. and he still almost killed Luffy and forced him to shorten his life once again. And his set up only failed because they happened to have the most negative person in the world around who was immune to Perona's powers, and they happened across the one person in the world who knew the weakness of his zombies. Moriah got hit with a pretty titanic dose of hard luck there.