Even Bush can be a president,… clearer qualification needed.
Random News Article Discussion
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@Monkey:
Can we get a ticker for the rising death count in Egypt right now going on in the corner of this stupid argument you're making?
I'll get one if you make a post properly analyzing and explaining the situation for those here who haven't followed the situation closely enough to make smart enough posts for everyone to appreciate. I remember being told something about the Egyptian military by a certain individual here in a way that sparked an interest to find out more from various different sources on my own. Funnily enough, I'm not entirely sure if I had done the same were I told to bugger off because I'm an idiot.
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That's some pretty cruel fatalism right there.
I prefer to call it determinism myself. I suppose they ultimately both mean the same thing, but I feel like they have subtly different implications. Although, unfortunately, as absolutely fascinating a topic as I find the concept, it's also completely off-topic, and wouldn't even be fit for this thread in the first place, so there's that.
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@Monkey:
Can we get a ticker for the rising death count in Egypt right now going on in the corner of this stupid argument you're making?
Do you live in a peaceful bubble with ponies and sunshine or something? Trying to take a moral high ground to pester people is one thing, but
Attacking someone for their normal opinion is pretty low. I don't know Davy Jones' posting history or what he says about other things but he is making the most sense in this argument.There is a big difference between trying to be realistically empathic and respectful towards a situation, and pretending you're crying in tears over every life you hear is lost or even become depressed about every bad thing you read about in the news. The latter would indicate a mental disorder.
To add more about the aspect of taking a moral stance, the world obviously has to condemn these actions in the most extreme way they can. That is practically also the best way to minimize the casualties. It's all part of a moral framework which we want the whole world to abide to to ensure that the current relative world peace continues and that any sort of violence is frowned upon. But don't mistake people that don't want to cry along as them not giving a damn or not having an ethically normal opinion.
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I'll get one if you make a post properly analyzing and explaining the situation for those here who haven't followed the situation closely enough to make smart enough posts for everyone to appreciate. I remember being told something about the Egyptian military by a certain individual here in a way that sparked an interest to find out more from various different sources on my own. Funnily enough, I'm not entirely sure if I had done the same were I told to bugger off because I'm an idiot.
You want me to do your work for you, so you can be sure how angry you should be at me for being angry at Davey Jones.
No lol.
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@Monkey:
Can we get a ticker for the rising death count in Egypt right now going on in the corner of this stupid argument you're making?
Single most bizarre post I've read in this thread.
Like it's relevant.
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Yelena Isinbayeva proves herself to be a conformist dick.
I admired her feats, but this is very disappointing.
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Just because someone is on the world stage for one thing, doesn't mean they'll impress in every way.
Athletes speaking out against homosexuality is as unsurprising as athletes speaking out in favour of toleration.
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Just because someone is on the world stage for one thing, doesn't mean they'll impress in every way.
Athletes speaking out against homosexuality is as unsurprising as athletes speaking out in favour of toleration.
She's also possibly just incredibly worried about her career as a Russian athlete after all of this noise. It doesn't justify what she said in any way but it's not an ignorable factor. Also, for giving a homophobic statement, she phrased it in the least homophobic way possible. National pressure is probably a real factor here.
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People were expecting her to say anything else?
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People were expecting her to keep her mouth shut. Which she could've done.
Unless she truly believes what she said. In which case, she's a dick. An awesome athlete, but a dick nonetheless. -
<sight>I think many young educated people support views expressed by that sports woman.</sight>
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People were expecting her to keep her mouth shut. Which she could've done.
Unless she truly believes what she said. In which case, she's a dick. An awesome athlete, but a dick nonetheless.You don't think there's any way she could have felt pressured by her Olympic team or even advised by coaches etc? Again I'm not trying to justify anything here, but I don't think it's so clear-cut that she just said it because she felt like it. Plus if she was ever put on the spot and asked questions during an interview, she would not be able to just avoid the issue.
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You don't think there's any way she could have felt pressured by her Olympic team or even advised by coaches etc? Again I'm not trying to justify anything here, but I don't think it's so clear-cut that she just said it because she felt like it. Plus if she was ever put on the spot and asked questions during an interview, she would not be able to just avoid the issue.
She is 28, very well travelled and has a huge international profile. She should be using her own head before coming up with statements like these. Honestly, it's not that difficult steering clear of controversy.
She was asked about the stance of the Swedish athletes. She could've just said: "It's their decision, not mine. I personally think they have horrible fashion sense. Next question." Or something. -
Isn't it a bit like when people harped on Italians voting in Berlusconi
Seemed like the harsher they were told off the more they went your not the boss of me
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She is 28, very well travelled and has a huge international profile. She should be using her own head before coming up with statements like these. Honestly, it's not that difficult steering clear of controversy.
She was asked about the stance of the Swedish athletes. She could've just said: "It's their decision, not mine. I personally think they have horrible fashion sense. Next question." Or something.I disagree with your trivialization of the issue but I'm not in the mood to argue about it.
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About this Egypt business. There are a number of reasons for why this happened.
The Brotherhood are without doubt the political entity with the largest following in Egypt. This why they are hated by the urban elite who have been ruling Egypt since the turn of the century through the monarchy and subsequent military junta since 1952. But the urban elite are not a majority and will never win democratic elections on a national scale as rural Egypt belongs to the Brotherhood and other Islamists. Hell a lot of middle class people in Cairo and Alexandria are part of this voting block as well. So the brotherhood would win elections in the foreseeable future. This is the reason for all the hate. A lot of the elite who owe their fortunes to proximity with power in a largely public sector socialist centrally controlled regime, stand to lose everything in this reversal of classes. That's why media owners, businessmen, judges and military are all opposed to the brotherhood but really to the class they represent.Also there are Saudi Arabia, UAE and Kuwait along with many outside forces who have a vested interest in keeping Egypt weak and subservient to their will and money. Who fear the cultural and political effects of democratic Egypt. Mainly exporting the revolution. And, whose rulers are old enough to remember the 50's and 60's where Egypt ruled supreme over the Arab world. They are spending billions to prevent this from happening. Read and watch their newspapers and news channels to see blatant support for the coup and killing.
Finally there was the utter stupidity in how the Brotherhood dealt with the transition. They weren't exclusionary, if anything they were too accommodating to the above mentioned anti-democratic forces. In hopes perhaps of a smooth and peaceful transition of power? This is shown by their only significant act upon obtaining power, the drafting of the constitution. And what a turd it was. You can see the democratic forces in Egypt shatter and splinter off after that dreadful legislative piece.
You see, in that constitution, the Brotherhood chose to appease the military. So instead of civilian control over the military, you got the military choosing their own minister of defense from amongst the generals, dictate and oversea their own budget and keep the hoards of business and factories the military owned and ran.
There is nothing in the constitution on how judges are chosen or how courts are organized. Thus appeasing the judiciary and keeping it as is from the Mubarak era. There is also nothing on the reorganization of the ministries of interior and media the 2 centralized tools that kept the people suppressed and misinformed. All in hoping to appease the so called deep government. Ironically all of these tools of suppression the brotherhood left intact will be used against them soon.Lastly, perhaps to retain power in the presidency they hoped to control or through lack of understanding on how democracy works. The constitution left the Parliament weak and susceptible to dissolution. There were also no rules on the election of governors, mayors and other local government. Who were still appointed by the President. There are other stupid clauses in that clusterfuck of a constitution. But it is way too big and stupid to discuss here.
So let's review. A political entity hated by the ruling establishment and regional powers gains power and fails to curtail said establishment aka "the deep state" hmm. What could possibly go wrong?
Well first the Judiciary dissolves Parliament on a technicality. By the way,That was the 1st dumb thing Davy stated in his post. Why would the brotherhood dissolve a Parliament where they held a majority? they are not that stupid.
Second it was easy to make the president look incompetent with all the levers of power under him held by unelected officials. You can bet your ass they slow walked his orders. This is Egypt fast walked orders are slow. They froze the government almost entirely.
Third have the media they still controlled make everything wrong in Egypt his fault. That's a lot of shit, by the way. There is no local independently elected governments to share the blame and burden.
Finally wait for it all to reach a crescendo of shit preferably in the summer where Egyptians are already irritable. Stage fake or amplified protests. Add a little vandalism and destruction of property for flavor. Have the media ask the military for help restoring order. Corner the presidential palace with tanks for protection. Capture president with said tanks and Bob's your uncle. -
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Thanks for that summary. Now, can you tell us why the Copts are being targeted in this carnage by supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood? Were they also complicit in the media/military/elites nexus?
This is not a rhetorical question. -
I noticed something about the way she words her statements.
We are very afraid about our nation because we consider ourselves normal, standard people… Everything must be fine. It comes from history. We never had these problems in Russia, and we don't want to have any in the future…We are against publicity but we are not of course about every choice of every single person. It's their life, it's their choice, it's their feelings, but we're just against the publicity in our country and I support that. We are Russians. Maybe we are different than European people, than other people from different lands. We have our law which everyone has to respect. It's my opinion also.
She almost exclusively uses "we" whenever she refers to the opinion that she is espousing. Several times, she falls back on "our nation" and "our country" (once again, she does not say "my nation" or "my country"). The only times when she refers to her own opinion, it is in the context of supporting the opinions of others.
There are a few other things I noticed. She does not say "we ARE normal, standard people", she says "we consider ourselves normal, standard people". She does not say "everything IS fine", she says "everything must be fine". She does not say "our law that everyone SHOULD respect", she says "our law that everyone has to respect". Whenever she refers to the issue that she is speaking out against, she never once refers to "gay people" or "homosexuality" as the problem. She refers to it as "publicity" or more generally "these problems".
I am not defending her in any way, but I personally feel that her statement was very low-risk.
Compare to the athlete who supports homosexuality.
For most athletes from my generation it's not an issue, for the most part we believe in equality. I really wanted to compete with a rainbow sticker but it was suggested if I pushed it too far there was a serious possibility I'd go to prison. Serious injustices need to be pointed out. I came out here to win a medal but if I can bring this important subject some attention, that's something I'd like to do.
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Thanks for that summary. Now, can you tell us why the Copts are being targeted in this carnage by supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood? Were they also complicit in the media/military/elites nexus?
This is not a rhetorical question.The ministry of interior's modus operandi has always been when in doubt bomb a Coptic church. It paints the Islamists in a bad light, gains sympathy from the west and turns the Copts and moderates against the Islamists. A win win win.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/37041/Egypt/Politics-/Two-Saints-bombing-trial-postponed-due-to-Popes-de.aspx " The bombing of the Two Saints Church in Alexandria resulted in the deaths of 21 people and the injuring of many others. It was blamed on the Palestinian Islamic Army. However, following the January 25 Revolution that led to the ouster of Hosni Mubarak, his former interior minister, Habib El-Adly, was accused of orchestrating the attacks. "
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I noticed something about the way she words her statements.
She almost exclusively uses "we" whenever she refers to the opinion that she is espousing. Several times, she falls back on "our nation" and "our country" (once again, she does not say "my nation" or "my country"). The only times when she refers to her own opinion, it is in the context of supporting the opinions of others.
There are a few other things I noticed. She does not say "we ARE normal, standard people", she says "we consider ourselves normal, standard people". She does not say "everything IS fine", she says "everything must be fine". She does not say "our law that everyone SHOULD respect", she says "our law that everyone has to respect". Whenever she refers to the issue that she is speaking out against, she never once refers to "gay people" or "homosexuality" as the problem. She refers to it as "publicity" or more generally "these problems".
I am not defending her in any way, but I personally feel that her statement was very low-risk.
Compare to the athlete who supports homosexuality.
maybe not low risk but there is some propaganda there, appealing to other people who think exactly like she does, almost speaking for them.
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I noticed something about the way she words her statements.
She almost exclusively uses "we" whenever she refers to the opinion that she is espousing. Several times, she falls back on "our nation" and "our country" (once again, she does not say "my nation" or "my country"). The only times when she refers to her own opinion, it is in the context of supporting the opinions of others.
There are a few other things I noticed. She does not say "we ARE normal, standard people", she says "we consider ourselves normal, standard people". She does not say "everything IS fine", she says "everything must be fine". She does not say "our law that everyone SHOULD respect", she says "our law that everyone has to respect". Whenever she refers to the issue that she is speaking out against, she never once refers to "gay people" or "homosexuality" as the problem. She refers to it as "publicity" or more generally "these problems".
I am not defending her in any way, but I personally feel that her statement was very low-risk.
Compare to the athlete who supports homosexuality.
I'd keep in mind some of that might be down to the different languages.
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I'd keep in mind some of that might be down to the different languages.
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Everytime I read her (Isinbayeva's) statement again, I'm more and more convinced that this is just her speaking what the government wants to hear from her. Taking the government's stance publicly is probably safer than avoiding the question, unfortunately.
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I noticed something about the way she words her statements.
She almost exclusively uses "we" whenever she refers to the opinion that she is espousing. Several times, she falls back on "our nation" and "our country" (once again, she does not say "my nation" or "my country"). The only times when she refers to her own opinion, it is in the context of supporting the opinions of others.
There are a few other things I noticed. She does not say "we ARE normal, standard people", she says "we consider ourselves normal, standard people". She does not say "everything IS fine", she says "everything must be fine". She does not say "our law that everyone SHOULD respect", she says "our law that everyone has to respect". Whenever she refers to the issue that she is speaking out against, she never once refers to "gay people" or "homosexuality" as the problem. She refers to it as "publicity" or more generally "these problems".
To me it seems slightly apologetic, in the sense that she has to say this to support her country.
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Everytime I read her (Isinbayeva's) statement again, I'm more and more convinced that this is just her speaking what the government wants to hear from her. Taking the government's stance publicly is probably safer than avoiding the question, unfortunately.
This was obvious to me immediately which is why some people are making me go O_o
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Everytime I read her (Isinbayeva's) statement again, I'm more and more convinced that this is just her speaking what the government wants to hear from her.
In other words, the same thing every Russian has said in public since 882.
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Yelena Isinbayeva proves herself to be a conformist dick.
I admired her feats, but this is very disappointing.
And she expressed what she believed was her nation's position on homosexuality: "We just live with boys with women, women with boys."
So Russia is against same age, and older male relationships, and is a rigid enforcer of cougar relationships?
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@wolfwoof:
Isn't it a bit like when people harped on Italians voting in Berlusconi
Seemed like the harsher they were told off the more they went your not the boss of me
Congratulations. You now understand Vladimir Putin's brain.
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Whilst standing up to the regime is a brave and laudable thing, it's also approaching career martyrdom at the very least. As mentioned before in this thread, the athletes are not the ones with the power here.
It might be worth mentioning the Russian TV host who came out on air in protest against rising state-sponsored homophobia. He's lost his job and career prospects and is probably now in real danger.
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I was thinking that first language would affect how you phrase things in English.
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She is using "English is not my mother tongue" as her defence. So all is cool with the world.
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The RNC voted unanimously to ban NBC, CNN, and their related networks like Telemundo from covering the 2016 debates if those organizations don't cancel their plans for a miniseries and documentary respectively about Hillary Clinton.
Also, from the same article:
This week, the Washington Examiner reported that the RNC is considering some high-profile conservative media personalities, like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, as potential debate moderators.
“I actually think that’s a very good idea,” Priebus said.
Wow, there's just no way any of this could backfire on Republicans.
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the political equivalent of not inviting someone to their birthday party
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Wow, there's just no way any of this could backfire on Republicans.
Getting two biggest loudmouth morons in the media that makes even O'Reilly pale in comparison, on debate panel?
…. What debate? This is going to be popcorn worthy.
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The RNC voted unanimously to ban NBC, CNN, and their related networks like Telemundo from covering the 2016 debates if those organizations don't cancel their plans for a miniseries and documentary respectively about Hillary Clinton.
Also, from the same article:
Wow, there's just no way any of this could backfire on Republicans.
Because trying to force free media not to make material about important, extremely noteworthy people they personaly don't want to get exposure is totally a democratic (not as in the party thing….you know what I mean !) thing to do.
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@No:
Because trying to force free media not to make material about important, extremely noteworthy people they personaly don't want to get exposure is totally a democratic (not as in the party thing….you know what I mean !) thing to do.
These are the people that holler all the live long day about doing exactly what the dead guys from 1776 wanted with no change, and then whine about the existence of the Supreme Court when it pushes gay marriage forward significantly.
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@Monkey:
These are the people that holler all the live long day about doing exactly what the dead guys from 1776 wanted with no change, and then whine about the existence of the Supreme Court when it pushes gay marriage forward significantly.
Then again, the "guys from 1776" also (probably) wanted perpetual maintainance of slavery so….
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@No:
Then again, the "guys from 1776" also (probably) wanted perpetual maintainance of slavery so….
A large number actually didn't!…even though they also owned slaves...
Addiction sort of sums up that particular attitude.
Like someone stuck on heroin who is self aware enough to know it's a horrible horrible drug, but he can't stopppp mannnn.
It dissolved over the years except where it had entangled itself into an entire way of life, economy, and social semi-caste system. The South. -
To be fair, idea of sitting on your ass, having ownership of other human beings who work for you, is a very, very, appealing prospect.
As long as you know, toss out any and all humane compassion and decency. -
@Monkey:
A large number actually didn't!…even though they also owned slaves...
Addiction sort of sums up that particular attitude.
Like someone stuck on heroin who is self aware enough to know it's a horrible horrible drug, but he can't stopppp mannnn.
It dissolved over the years except where it had entangled itself into an entire way of life, economy, and social semi-caste system. The South.Except heroin in this case reffers to life, hereditery subjugation of an entire race of people.
So it has a bit of more direct effect on others then doing drugs. Massively so.
(Not arguing with you btw, just pointing that drug addiction of a couple people is prefferable to….you know)
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To be fair, idea of sitting on your ass, having ownership of other human beings who work for you, is a very, very, appealing prospect.
As long as you know, toss out any and all humane compassion and decency.As far as I know, having power over other people slowly eradicates the person's empathy anyway.
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Yelena Isinbayeva proves herself to be a conformist dick.
I admired her feats, but this is very disappointing.
About that, an Italian alderman has posted on his FB page that Isinbayeva should be raped. Just because.
He resigned after that.Here's the article, although it's in Italian, so not many people will be able to understand it.
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So I just passed by a new that I don't know if should put here because its so fucking inducing raging that i don't want people on this border having what i have right now.
THAT'S IT TO PUNCHING A FUCKING WALL UNTIL I DON'T HAVE HANDS. -
So I just passed by a new that I don't know if should put here because its so fucking inducing raging that i don't want people on this border having what i have right now.
THAT'S IT TO PUNCHING A FUCKING WALL UNTIL I DON'T HAVE HANDS.But that's the best kind of news, it's no fun until you're outraged.
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But that's the best kind of news, it's no fun until you're outraged.
Well then if you end like me AFTER SEEING THIS SHIT THEN DON'T SAY FUCKING WARN YOU.
http://www.citynews.ca/2013/08/18/family-in-shock-after-hate-letter-targets-teen-with-autism/
AND HERE'S THE FUCKING LETTER!
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Well then if you end like me AFTER SEEING THIS SHIT THEN DON'T SAY FUCKING WARN YOU.
http://www.citynews.ca/2013/08/18/family-in-shock-after-hate-letter-targets-teen-with-autism/
AND HERE'S THE FUCKING LETTER! http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/Bryy/1004693_4675932314635_485652550_n_zps85fd1e6d.jpg
This is neither news, nor particularly troubling next to what we usually discuss in here.
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Oh, wow. I was expecting some bullish letter as in "Haha, your kid is not normal kill him" (not that that would have been okay) but this. This is pure and ignorant evilness. There's no joke here, this is some serious letter which I really can't understand. Wow, people are sure capable of a lot of (low) things.
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@Monkey:
This is neither news, nor particularly troubling next to what we usually discuss in here.
Doesn't stop being infuriating as it his, and isn't the name of this thread random news also i've seen on this thread users posting similars news.