Can I just say I hate the "How black are you?" Or any variation of that sort of tests. I'm a black woman and according to every test I've taken. I'm a white male…
Color me surprised.
….oh god, no pun intended.
Can I just say I hate the "How black are you?" Or any variation of that sort of tests. I'm a black woman and according to every test I've taken. I'm a white male…
Color me surprised.
….oh god, no pun intended.
Color me surprised.
….oh god, no pun intended.
Black (or ebony, as I sometimes call them) women are fine.
Man, Europe is a completely different place from America when it comes to race relations…
My parents are refugees. They speak English well enough, although I wouldn't call them fluent. They prefer to shop in what you'd call a Little Saigon and don't really read non-Vietnamese news sources. They prefer to stick to the things that they know. And what's wrong with that? My little brother and I, one generation removed, speak English pretty well, even if it's not perfect all of the time. I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but in America, questions of integration are just distractions. Nearly all second-generation immigrants become fluent in English through schooling and integrate into the wider community. Third generation immigrants rarely speak the language of their grandparents. So, I get annoyed when some politician goes "if they're coming here, they should learn English" (and it's always about Mexicans, because Asian, African, South American, and Canadian immigrants don't exist, you see) when history clearly demonstrates that you won't have to worry about it within the decade.
Maybe issues of integration and race are more rigid in Europe? I guess it's like Monkey King says, easier to adapt to an idea than a nationality. And on top of that, America is a nation of immigrants anyway, so it's hypocrisy at its finest to suggest immediate integration and English-only education.
If that were all, it would be possible to tolerate. They are purposely building walls around them that no local, no matter how nice they actually are, can get through. It is like keeping the contact with Germans to a minimum. If that were the first years they are here, i would still understand, but living here for 30 years or even 50 years, it is not something that can be excused. Sometimes it puts me on the spot because i as someone who has been born and lived for the majority of his life, feel at least for a certain part German. My grandmother who has been living here for 40 years can not even speak German which is not really comprehensible for me. This of course often rubs off on the next generation, they pretty much adapt that attitude and ideology. I grew up in a "foreigner neighborhood" in which the most residents were foreigners, mostly even from the same country i come from. I went to school with my neighbors in my age, the majority in my class were foreigners and so forth, at least until the 5th year. After that, students have to choose between 4 schools which are divided by their quality, curriculum and so forth. My grades were good, so i went to the best type of school (it´s called Gymnasium in Germany but it is not like it is an Elite school or something) which does not really have many immigrants, so i was naturally "exposed" to many Germans their which pretty much opened my eyes. I started to associate much more with Germans, started to assimilate the culture, the behavior and so forth but the immigrant friends i had started to hate me for it which i could never understand to be honest. Of course i know that not everyone was "exposed" like me, thus opening up but this aggressive and non conformist behavior was always incomprehensible to me.
If I had to guess, I'd say they feel like you're betraying them by assimilating maybe too much. I'd bet that they're afraid you'll lose contact with your heritage. Maybe you even seem like a totally different person to them. Of course, it's your business, not theirs.
While most of my grandparents are dead, I have aunts and uncles on my mother's side that speak only basic English; enough, maybe, to call for help or ask for simple directions, but no more. First off, they're old so it's hard enough to learn another language. Secondly, they've been displaced into another culture. That means that they'll seek out people from their old country, so that their language skills don't make it harder for them to get a job and they have something familiar to depend on. And for some of these people, living in these little communities is enough.
I'm actually confused by the implication in your post. "feel at least for a certain part German" Isn't that natural? Can't you be both?
@wolfwoof:
That is all related to what Miyamoto is describing below. We really do by and large live in seperate worlds
And sadly enough any attempt to combat this is shutdown by either the blame being put entierly on the host nation for being racist and expelling them from society ( not saying that this sort of thing isn't part of it ), and the aspect of willfull distancing that's taken by the immigrants in "their" city parts is never brought up, mostly because to question it would be "racist" .
Leading to a sad state of affairs where the miserable status quo is kept strong. And of course giving rise to the nationalist parties that want to enforce a Swedish way of life.
@cooldud_21:
Where is the line between giving up your culture completely and completely refusing to mix into your new society?
Also, who has the prerogative of 'breaking the ice', so to say, and form new community bonds? The immigrants or the natives?
(Speaking from my own experience here) Among the Vietnamese community in America, there are many support networks. Some of these are job-related; if you can have a job with someone that speaks your language and understands your culture, it's more comfortable that way, after all. This goes double if you're new to the country. I don't see anything wrong with it. Some of the money made is wired back to Vietnam to relatives that couldn't leave. Immigrant and refugee communities build up entire mini-economies (for example, during the 2008-2009 recession, you probably didn't feel it as badly if you shopped in or worked in a Chinatown), with supermarkets and so on.
I guess maybe I don't understand how extreme it is in Europe? I mean, you completely have the option of living cut-off from mainstream America, but I don't know anyone that does so. Among my Mexican friends; maybe their parents don't speak English but their children definitely do. It just seems to me that integration happens over generations. You can't expect it to happen immediately. And on the flip side of that, I doubt that I'll ever integrate completely into mainstream American culture. My first language will always be Vietnamese. I'll always have a slightly different cultural frame of reference. So on, so forth. I don't think this is a bad thing at all.
It might have been mentioned but since I'm too lazy to read this whole thread I think there is a big difference between "racist" and "racial". I know it's only one of the definitions but racism is asserting the superiority of one race over another or inferiority of one race to another. I think saying "all black people like watermelon and fried chicken" isn't racist, it's racial and can be offensive nonetheless. BUT I don't see how that denotes superiority over black people by whoever says the statement. It is a racial statment but it's not dehumanizing or putting people down the way a racist statement would. I also know watermelon was commonly given to slaves and therefore you can say it is racist because you're saying… I think there is a big difference between statements like "black people like watermelon and friend chicken", and "black people are apes". Even though they both in todays would would be considered racist, the second statement implies direct inferiority (racIST) the first one at it's base is a stereotype but not one that implies racial inferiority (racIAL). Again late me state I know race superiority/inferiority isn't the only definition of racism and I even know stereotypes are considering by some definitions as racists, but I really think there is a BIG difference between calling a black person an "ape" or that they have a "unable to learn as well as (insert race here)" than saying they like to "eat watermelon" or "have big dicks". Maybe I'm wrong but that's my two cents.
Can I just say I hate the "How black are you?" Or any variation of that sort of tests. I'm a black woman and according to every test I've taken. I'm a white male…
Can not tell you how much it bothers me that there even is a "way to be black" mentality that people have. I've been called an Oreo jokingly a lot. Yeah so what, I've done a lot of fine dining, I went to country clubs, I'm well traveled, I like mayonaise, I can't dance (unless I'm drinking), never lived in "da hood".
Reminds me of Childish Gambino. You know? Donald Glover's rap persona? Awesome shit, and the lyrics a lot of the time are based on his upbringing and background and how he's "white" and everyone in the rap industry looks down on him for such.
Can not tell you how much it bothers me that there even is a "way to be black" mentality that people have. I've been called an Oreo jokingly a lot. Yeah so what, I've done a lot of fine dining, I went to country clubs, I'm well traveled, I like mayonaise, I can't dance (unless I'm drinking), never lived in "da hood".
Hahaahahaha I don't care what anyone says. I LOVE MAYONNAISE!!!!!!
I love Undercover Brother the movie. One of the funniest movies I've seen. But even during their anti-mayo scenes, I make sure to put a whole glub of Mayo on my sandwich while I'm watching it.
This is not something to be proud of. Mayonnaise is one of the top 5 most disgusting foods in the world. As a black man, I can say that I fully support that stereotype, and hope that you guys will someday in the future.
Nothing like a good piece of hot fresh fried chicken but I really hate mayo.
Now this is more like it!
If I had to guess, I'd say they feel like you're betraying them by assimilating maybe too much. I'd bet that they're afraid you'll lose contact with your heritage. Maybe you even seem like a totally different person to them. Of course, it's your business, not theirs.
While most of my grandparents are dead, I have aunts and uncles on my mother's side that speak only basic English; enough, maybe, to call for help or ask for simple directions, but no more. First off, they're old so it's hard enough to learn another language. Secondly, they've been displaced into another culture. That means that they'll seek out people from their old country, so that their language skills don't make it harder for them to get a job and they have something familiar to depend on. And for some of these people, living in these little communities is enough.
I'm actually confused by the implication in your post. "feel at least for a certain part German" Isn't that natural? Can't you be both?
Maybe but it is not like i changed really, it is more like the mere association with Germans was scorned.
You are obviously right with your second paragraph which is why i emphasized that i would totally understand if their behavior was like that when they arrived and lived here for a couple of years but imagine living 50 years in a country in which you do not speak the language, thus you can not go to the hospital, shopping and so forth without company.
Furthermore, of course i can be both but it honestly took me a while to realize that. If you live in between the cultures you initially can not identify yourself with either of them, doubting yourself. It took a while until i realized that "having 2 cultures" does not contradict itself.
I guess maybe I don't understand how extreme it is in Europe? I mean, you completely have the option of living cut-off from mainstream America, but I don't know anyone that does so. Among my Mexican friends; maybe their parents don't speak English but their children definitely do. It just seems to me that integration happens over generations. You can't expect it to happen immediately. And on the flip side of that, I doubt that I'll ever integrate completely into mainstream American culture. My first language will always be Vietnamese. I'll always have a slightly different cultural frame of reference. So on, so forth. I don't think this is a bad thing at all.
I mean it varies. The young men probably don't live as cut off from the rest of society as the women.
If not for school being mandatory alot of girls probably wouldn't ever be let out of the house without a male family member escorting her.
My parents actually tried that with me, but even they wouldn't not let me go to school.
One of my best friends in high school was the eldest daughter of a Sudanese man and a Saudi woman. Their house was gender-segregated and everything. She went to high school like a normal student and was allowed out of the house even more than me senior year. In that case, it might just be a class thing? They're relatively wealthy and very educated, while I imagine many immigrants in Europe are relatively poor.
(Speaking from my own experience here) Among the Vietnamese community in America, there are many support networks. Some of these are job-related; if you can have a job with someone that speaks your language and understands your culture, it's more comfortable that way, after all. This goes double if you're new to the country. I don't see anything wrong with it. Some of the money made is wired back to Vietnam to relatives that couldn't leave. Immigrant and refugee communities build up entire mini-economies (for example, during the 2008-2009 recession, you probably didn't feel it as badly if you shopped in or worked in a Chinatown), with supermarkets and so on.
I guess maybe I don't understand how extreme it is in Europe? I mean, you completely have the option of living cut-off from mainstream America, but I don't know anyone that does so. Among my Mexican friends; maybe their parents don't speak English but their children definitely do. It just seems to me that integration happens over generations. You can't expect it to happen immediately. And on the flip side of that, I doubt that I'll ever integrate completely into mainstream American culture. My first language will always be Vietnamese. I'll always have a slightly different cultural frame of reference. So on, so forth. I don't think this is a bad thing at all.
Any of the major European immigrant groups to America did all the support network stuff, and oh my yes did it involve it's share of organized crime and disorganized too.
Italians, the Irish, etc.
Up in Worcester Mass the local Swedish immigrants tried to form a KKK cell (second gen KKK style) just to survive against the Irish organizations back in the day. Suffice to say that didn't work very well lol.
Of course the apocalyptic scars of immigrant ethnic networking have….oh wait all those groups are near perfectly comfortable in the US now. Europe needs to just study US history real close honestly lol.
My parents actually tried that with me, but even they wouldn't not let me go to school.
One of my best friends in high school was the eldest daughter of a Sudanese man and a Saudi woman. Their house was gender-segregated and everything. She went to high school like a normal student and was allowed out of the house even more than me senior year. In that case, it might just be a class thing? They're relatively wealthy and very educated, while I imagine many immigrants in Europe are relatively poor.
Yeah that probably is part of it. The Iranians are usually highly educated and by and large the most chilled out immigrant group.
Where as the Kurds are lower on the rung and pretty damn militant about remaining Kurds foreeeeeeever. At any cost
@Monkey:
Of course the apocalyptic scars of immigrant ethnic networking have….oh wait all those groups are near perfectly comfortable in the US now. Europe needs to just study US history real close honestly lol.
One can always hope that it's a passing stage. But that's little comfort to those that suffer through it now.
I sometimes wish i could be a bit more like you and just look at things from a big picture perspective
@wolfwoof:
Yeah that probably is part of it. The Iranians are usually highly educated and by and large the most chilled out immigrant group.
Where as the Kurds are lower on the rung and pretty damn militant about remaining Kurds foreeeeeeever. At any cost
One can always hope that it's a passing stage. But that's little comfort to those that suffer through it now.
I sometimes wish i could be a bit more like you and just look at things from a big picture perspective
Ai sorry about my mates running your kin out o' Wusster, but ye put on th' white hood and call teh pope a mick, yer gettin cut no matter how pretty yer bloond air'. Streets is blood.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Real game, real streets, invade Canada ere'y day.
I had a very hot debate with a lot of adolescene homosexuals about this concept. Although it's not "racism" the word "gay" being used in a derogatory context is not only common, but completely acceptable. And I don't mean 'lol fag you deserve to die" but rather "oh my god dude, this game is so gay, I just can't beat it!".
My point was that the entire intention of the word Gay is nothing more than a substitute for vocal frustration, not only that but Gay other definitions, if you give the word power, especially for a usage that has nothing to do with homosexuality, it's just wasted frustration.
Obviously racial slurs are quite different as "nigger" or "wetback" don't have secondary definitions and are nothing but intentionally antagonistic vocabulary. I don't think it's appropriate to use the word based on that, because it serves no other purpose, being frustrated over it gives it power, but people should generally be considerate. They shouldn't be using words that serve no purpose besides antagonism, spite, or pain. That's how humans are unfortunately.
Correct me if i'm wrong. But Mick seems to be the least offensive racial slur ever
So just a question - This was released a while back taking target at a few sterotypes what are your feelings on it. In context of whats discussed in this thread could it be called racist?
My point was that the entire intention of the word Gay is nothing more than a substitute for vocal frustration, not only that but Gay other definitions, if you give the word power, especially for a usage that has nothing to do with homosexuality, it's just wasted frustration.
Obviously racial slurs are quite different as "nigger" or "wetback" don't have secondary definitions and are nothing but intentionally antagonistic vocabulary. I don't think it's appropriate to use the word based on that, because it serves no other purpose, being frustrated over it gives it power, but people should generally be considerate. They shouldn't be using words that serve no purpose besides antagonism, spite, or pain. That's how humans are unfortunately.
Are you trying to say calling bad things gay is fine? Because uh no.
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@wolfwoof:
Correct me if i'm wrong. But Mick seems to be the least offensive racial slur ever
Don't underestimate how bad racism against the Irish got. Mostly in regards to the English.
Imagine the height of the imperial era, where Western Europe saw itself as the pinnacle of humanity and civilization. Lording (literally) over the "lesser peoples" of the world, the British in particular were at this role. This was the HEIGHT of scientific racism, where quack doctors and quack scientists concocted up all manner of explanations (misusing Darwin) to explain why Western Europe was so great and why everyone else sucked.
And they had one problem, the westernmost European people and land was like….nothing like them. Ireland was filthy poor, backwards, prone to violence, and a colony in all but name to begin with. So here was this thing staring Western Europe in the face, showing human development's true character and blowing hard into their race or religious theories.
So they had to explain it away, had to rationalize the Irish as being some subhuman abortion.
"THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH US" shit.
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I always love those picky choosy "RACE COMPARISON" things, where like a supermodel is used for the germanic white person, and some troll looking motherfucker for the bad race!
You can still see that shit on places like Stormfront.
Let's flip the script.
IRISH
ENGLISH
BLACK
It's so easy to glorify and dehumanize people when you pick random samples isn't it!
Oh, and espeiclaly when you judge on looks because The Fall are a great band, and Brosnan a lame Bond XD
Goddamn, this thread is just been dumping ground for Zeph to dispense his insurmountable history knowlegdge hasn't it?
I don't think I need a history book on this no mo'…........
@Monkey:
Are you trying to say calling bad things gay is fine? Because uh no.
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Don't underestimate how bad racism against the Irish got. Mostly in regards to the English.
Imagine the height of the imperial era, where Western Europe saw itself as the pinnacle of humanity and civilization. Lording (literally) over the "lesser peoples" of the world, the British in particular were at this role. This was the HEIGHT of scientific racism, where quack doctors and quack scientists concocted up all manner of explanations (misusing Darwin) to explain why Western Europe was so great and why everyone else sucked.
And they had one problem, the westernmost European people and land was like….nothing like them. Ireland was filthy poor, backwards, prone to violence, and a colony in all but name to begin with. So here was this thing staring Western Europe in the face, showing human development's true character and blowing hard into their race or religious theories.
So they had to explain it away, had to rationalize the Irish as being some subhuman abortion.
"THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH US" shit.--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I always love those picky choosy "RACE COMPARISON" things, where like a supermodel is used for the germanic white person, and some troll looking motherfucker for the bad race!
You can still see that shit on places like Stormfront.Let's flip the script.
IRISH
ENGLISH
BLACKIt's so easy to glorify and dehumanize people when you pick random samples isn't it!
Oh, and espeiclaly when you judge on looks because The Fall are a great band, and Brosnan a lame Bond XD
I'm digging that English dude's weird lip beard
Goddamn, this thread is just been dumping ground for Zeph to dispense his insurmountable history knowlegdge hasn't it?
I don't think I need a history book on this no mo'…........
http://massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=302
And now New England Protestants ethnics and Catholic ethnics are so well mixed together it's not even funny. Yours truly for instance.
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I'm digging that English dude's weird lip beard
Mark E Smith of The Fall. Noted great band leader and ugly person.
@Monkey:
Are you trying to say calling bad things gay is fine? Because uh no.
Absolutely. The word has developed it's own type of rhetoric, the only people who make it a point to attack it are frankly melodramatic. Gay has never and will never singularly mean "Homosexual" and to think that when someone says "Wow that's so gay, he stole my money", that it's pertaining to you as a homosexual is just labeling yourself as attention starving.
Absolutely. The word has developed it's own type of rhetoric, the only people who make it a point to attack it are frankly melodramatic. Gay has never and will never singularly mean "Homosexual" and to think that when someone says "Wow that's so gay, he stole my money", that it's pertaining to you as a homosexual is just labeling yourself as attention starving.
Gay always meant happy things. It only started getting various negative meanings when it begun being associated with homosexual people and the people who gave it hateful meanings were the ones who disrespected them and hated them. So no. It's not melodramatic to consider it an offensive word when it's used in bad ways. On the contrary, I find people who think it's fine to use it with negative meanings, rather insensitive and ignorant. Also, don't you have a richer vocabulary than a three year old? Are you only able to express negative opinions and feelings by branding something as 'gay' and thus find the need to support its use in such ways? Sounds pretty sad to me.
Absolutely. The word has developed it's own type of rhetoric, the only people who make it a point to attack it are frankly melodramatic. Gay has never and will never singularly mean "Homosexual" and to think that when someone says "Wow that's so gay, he stole my money", that it's pertaining to you as a homosexual is just labeling yourself as attention starving.
suck my dick
Absolutely. The word has developed it's own type of rhetoric,
This is downright dumb lol. It damn well isn't some obscure dissconnected word origin thing people have forgotten and only nitpicking overthinking people care about.
You really don't get to decide this in the first place lol. It's not like some puzzle where you run out of the lab like "EUREKA! No worries everyone! It's empirically inoffensive! You can stop caring now!". It doesn't work like that.
the only people who make it a point to attack it are frankly melodramatic.
Or you know, gay.
Gay has never and will never singularly mean "Homosexual"
Your point is "don't worry it's come to mean something else", to defend this you're backing it up with "this use of the word no one uses anymore still is legit so don't act like the word means what it currently does!!". buhhhhhhhhhh
Except no one does use it to mean "happy!" anymore. And people really really really really do mean "homosexual", it's THE word for that. Homosexual is the fancy, gay is the casual, so causal it even covers lesbians frequently.
Moreover, which one do YOU think carries the negative meaning eh? "Oh man that's so happy, fuck that thing". Yeah no.
and to think that when someone says "Wow that's so gay, he stole my money", that it's pertaining to you as a homosexual is just labeling yourself as attention starving.
"Wow that's so black, he stole my money", "Wow that's so asian, he stole my money", "Wow that's so russian, he stole my money"
Or hell…
"Don't jew me on this dude!"
Oh but that's ok because
Starved for attention yeah man that's how this works….. suck my dick
We (used to?) throw that around willy nilly on New Pork City along with various slurs. I know I did, but hell I don't think people weren't being honest with themselves about it. It was the filthy drunk bar environment of the place, we were being bad boys and girls and knew it.
Don't pretend it isn't what it is.
yeah we don't do it anymore i put a stop to that
and everyone was cool with it
because they are adults
and adults don't do thatsuck my dick
Gay always meant happy things. It only started getting various negative meanings when it begun being associated with homosexual people. So no. It's not melodramatic to consider it an offensive word when it's used in bad ways. On the contrary, I find people who think it's fine to use it with negative meanings, rather insensitive and ignorant. Also, don't you have a richer vocabulary than a three year old? Are you only able to express negative opinions and feelings by branding something as 'gay' and thus find the need to support its use in such ways? Sounds pretty sad to me.
Educate yourself;
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/02/how-gay-came-to-mean-homosexual/
This is my personal opinion, not my personal habits, let's get that clear, then you can possibly confront me with a reasonable argument that a 3 year old doddled up.
You've clearly never been called gay or a faggot and had it reflect something about you and used as a weapon
It's toxic
Like I know Chrissie doesn't let slurs bother her but they bug me and you gotta understand
That shit ain't cool to appropriate as somebody's catchall for negativity
And don't dare suggest people get bothered by this as some starved for attention plea
How do white people feel about the words craka and honky? I remember I was online one time playing Socom, and one of my teammates said how stupid he thought those words were. Craka is such a lame word. I don't blame anyone for not being offended by it.
@Monkey:
Don't underestimate how bad racism against the Irish got. Mostly in regards to the English.
@Monkey:
This is downright dumb lol. It damn well isn't some obscure dissconnected word origin thing people have forgotten and only nitpicking overthinking people care about.
This is pretty much what i thought mick had become, some ancient slur that didn't really carry any strong meaning to todays irish-americans.
But i suppose i got that wrong.
Educate yourself;
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/02/how-gay-came-to-mean-homosexual/
This is my personal opinion, not my personal habits, let's get that clear, then you can possibly confront me with a reasonable argument that a 3 year old doddled up.
English not my mother language so I used the basics of what I knew:
Gay old meaning= Happy/joyful blah blah blah
Gay new meaning = Homosexual person
Gay asshole meaning = easy word to use as a derogatory word because you are unable to use the mentality of a grown-up human being to use alternative words. Even quoting the article you gave me to 'educate' me
This new definition was originally almost exclusively meant as an insulting term, derogatorily referencing homosexuals.
What I said still stands: If you use it as an offensive word when you know it's a word homosexuals adopted, you are a fucktard.
QUOTE=Monkey King;2832233]This is downright dumb lol. It damn well isn't some obscure dissconnected word origin thing people have forgotten and only nitpicking overthinking people care about.
It absolutely is. When you say "fuck" what comes to mind? It's really became the same thing.
@Monkey:
You really don't get to decide this in the first place lol. It's not like some puzzle where you run out of the lab like "EUREKA! No worries everyone! It's empirically inoffensive! You can stop caring now!". It doesn't work like that.
I think the better clarification that is necessary is how a forum works. It's for stating opinions, my opinion is not a fact or how "society should conform to my beliefs". World would be a much better place if it did though haha.
@Monkey:
Or you know, gay.
So when a homosexual has picked up this habit, is it then acceptable? Frankly the bigger reactions don't actually come from homosexuals, but people who feel the need to defend them. Personal experience though, not my habit, but I have friends who do have the habit, and those circles do have homosexuals in them, who have picked up the habit themselves. Maybe I'm just lucky too live with people who think more logically than emotionally.
@Monkey:
Your point is "don't worry it's come to mean something else", to defend this you're backing it up with "this use of the word no one uses anymore still is legit so don't act like the word means what it currently does!!". buhhhhhhhhhh
Context is my point, was that the word you were looking for?
@Monkey:
Except no one does use it to mean "happy!" anymore. And people really really really really do mean "homosexual", it's THE word for that. Homosexual is the fancy, gay is the casual, so causal it even covers lesbians frequently.
I want you to go ask anyone if that's what they are trying to say. I can almost gurrantee you'll be shocked by the results. But hey what do I know, I just kind of, do my research.
@Monkey:
Moreover, which one do YOU think carries the negative meaning eh? "Oh man that's so happy, fuck that thing". Yeah no.
"Wow that's so black, he stole my money", "Wow that's so asian, he stole my money", "Wow that's so russian, he stole my money"
Or hell…
"Don't jew me on this dude!"
Oh but that's ok because
You're under the assumption kids on xbox 360 are screaming "GAY" in frustration that of your sexual preference. You really think that? Okay.
English not my mother language so I used the basics of what I knew:
Gay old meaning= Happy/joyful blah blah blah
Gay new meaning = Homosexual person
Gay asshole meaning = easy word to use as a derogatory word because you are unable to use the mentality of a grown-up human being to use alternative words. Even quoting the article you gave me to 'educate' me
What I said still stands: If you use it as an offensive word when you know it's a word homosexuals adopted, you are a fucktard.
Well if I'm a fucktard, I at least know how to read to understand a point;
However, according to a report done by the BBC, most children are still using the word to mean “lame”, but now with having nothing to do with sexuality of any sort and also not generally meant as an insulting term against homosexuals. Now it is used more to the effect of just saying, for instance, “That movie was gay” as in stupid, but having nothing to do with homosexuality in their minds and not generally directed at people (thus not supposedly meant to be offensive to the gay community). Whereas the origins of this new “lame” or “stupid” definition were most definitely meant to be insulting and were primarily directed at people
Which is actually more accurate in our culture than anything.
How do white people feel about the words craka and honky? I remember I was online one time playing Socom, and one of my teammates said how stupid he thought those words were. Craka is such a lame word. I don't blame anyone for not being offended by it.
They hold no meaning to me but your racial slur specifically is much more deep than that could ever hold so it's not even in the same universe in comparison
Try to place nice kids. I know it's not my section to moderate and all but i'd appreciate it if we kept the name calling to a minimum.
But while i'm at it i love the fact that we non-native english speakers struggle with certain ordinary words, yet we all know what a fucktard is lol.
And 1pe i thought the word was cracker? Not that either of them really offend me in any way
So when a homosexual has picked up this habit, is it then acceptable? Frankly the bigger reactions don't actually come from homosexuals, but people who feel the need to defend them. Personal experience though, not my habit, but I have friends who do have the habit, and those circles do have homosexuals in them, who have picked up the habit themselves. Maybe I'm just lucky too live with people who think more logically than emotionally.
Because there's no chance of internalized stigma, or anything. Discount all experiences except the ones that adhere to what you wanna believe.
And yes I think it's stupid when a homosexual or queer person uses gay like that, but it's still very different than a STRAIGHT PERSON DOING IT which is inarguable dude.
And christ you're even playing the cliche of saying your friends are "logical", because anybody who has feelings is just overemotional.
@wolfwoof:
And 1pe i thought the word was cracker? Not that either of them really offend me in any way
I mean that's how you spell the word cracker so yes. I didn't bother worrying about spelling due to the fact that both of those words when used in this context are just insults.
I was waiting for this exact moment. :) Thank you.
Well if I'm a fucktard, I at least know how to read to understand a point;
However, according to a report done by the BBC, most children are still using the word to mean “lame”, but now with having nothing to do with sexuality of any sort and also not generally meant as an insulting term against homosexuals. Now it is used more to the effect of just saying, for instance, “That movie was gay” as in stupid, but having nothing to do with homosexuality in their minds and not generally directed at people (thus not supposedly meant to be offensive to the gay community). Whereas the origins of this new “lame” or “stupid” definition were most definitely meant to be insulting and were primarily directed at people
Which is actually more accurate in our culture than anything.
Do you or do you not associate the word gay with homosexuals?
Doesn't every adult you know associate the word gay with homosexuals?
Just because children use the word negatively in ignorance, it doesn't mean that gives the same leeway to adults to use it in the same way.
Are you even following what I am trying to say here?
Do you agree with the children using the word in such way? Would you disagree in educating them to do better and start respecting people and stop using words that represent a quite large social group in bad ways? Because I find nowadays young people get away with plenty of shit they shouldn't.
It only seems to me, this culture of yours is not heading in a good way and if you are accepting it like that, you are majorly contributing to it. Well, I do not accept or approve this because they are kids. Gives no excuses to them or the adults who go like "Oh, they don't mean to offend homosexuals! Just to say something is stupid!"
This attitude you carry, along with plenty of others, is just no good.
And I said: When YOU KNOW it's a word homosexuals adopted yet you still use it negatively or even don't mind it being used like that, you are a fucktard.
@wolfwoof:
And 1pe i thought the word was cracker? Not that either of them really offend me in any way
It may have been craka originally, it's how they referred to whites because it was the sound of what the whip makes.
@The:
Because there's no chance of internalized stigma, or anything. Discount all experiences except the ones that adhere to what you wanna believe.
And yes I think it's stupid when a homosexual or queer person uses gay like that, but it's still very different than a STRAIGHT PERSON DOING IT which is inarguable dude.
And christ you're even playing the cliche of saying your friends are "logical", because anybody who has feelings is just overemotional.
No, you're reading it in a derogatory context. My friends are in fact more logical than emotional, but emotional does not mean melodramatic. I get emotional when arguing the rights of gay marriage because I can't fathom how anyone could be so stupid as to deny it.
To be quite frank, speaking candid, homosexuality is a sexual preference. Sexuality in general is a taboo in our country. In fact it's indirectly responsible for why japanese porn is censored/tentacles, when we influenced them in I believe the Feudal Era. So why it's the governments, religious, military, or your neighbors business what your sex life is, is really innapropriate to begin with.
I was waiting for this exact moment. :) Thank you.
To argue semantics? Okay.
Do you or do you not associate the word gay with homosexuals?
Doesn't every adult you know associate the word gay with homosexuals?
Depends on the usage, the context of the word. If it's describing a person's sexual preference, yes. If it's about how a movie was unsatisfactory, no.
Just because children use the word negatively in ignorance, it doesn't mean that gives the same leeway to adults to use it in the same way.
Are you even following what I am trying to say here?
You can't seperate kids vs adults because by definition a child is considered as such until they are 18, in some countries anyway. If you look at the source of the article;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7289390.stm
You'll see many words were rated. Words that adolescenes typically use, until their early 20's really. By the time they hit "adult" they most likely don't use the word because it seems juvenile. Much like you stop saying "YO".
Do you agree with the children using the word in such way? Would you disagree in educating them to do better and start respecting people and stop using words that represent a quite large social group in bad ways? Because I find nowadays young people get away with plenty of shit they shouldn't.
How old are you? Why do you use "shit" and "fucktard" which is "Fucking retard". To be quite frank you're just as insensitive and don't even realize it. Plenty of kids, plenty of schools punish kids for saying the F word, for saying the B word, for cursing in general. Lotta good that has done, so your idea of a solution is ridiculous. Calling someone retarded is just as bad if not worse than what you're trying to defend.
It only seems to me, this culture of yours is not heading in a good way and if you are accepting it like that, you are majorly contributing to it. Well, I do not accept or approve this because they are kids. Gives no excuses to them or the adults who go like "Oh, they don't mean to offend homosexuals! Just to say something is stupid!"
This attitude you carry, along with plenty of others, is just no good.And I said: When YOU KNOW it's a word homosexuals adopted yet you still use it negatively or even don't mind it being used like that, you are a fucktard.
And you prove yourself a hypocrite. If you can't stop the person from using the word, then stop making it a bad word. It's that simple. You used to be unable to say Ass on television, now it's uncensored, so is asshole. Abortions used to be social suicide, now it's acceptable because society changes. Rob paul put it beautifully, the morals of the world has changed, rather than trying to conform people to thinking "WEED IS EVIL, ITLL KILL EVERYONE", we adjust ourselves.
Now this is under the assumption that is reasonable and harmless. A word that became a stigma can be changed, not to offend anyone, but to clarify the intention. As common as the usage is, I think it's up for debate, in fact is up for debate.
Let me put it this way in the most overly simplified way I can, even if it might dilute my arugment:
There are some reasonable guys who might not mean any kind of offense by saying "gay" as shorthand for stupid, or anything negative. But there are also a ton of people who specifically mean it that way. Walking into a place and having high schoolers gang up and verbally assault you ("hey faggot", "check out that gay guy") for wearing a magenta sweatervest, people that grow up in school environments where students en masse use it derogatorily (I have witnessed kids playing games called SMEER THE QUEER and there's all kinds of stuff like that that does go on), that kind of thing?
It happens a lot and it's pretty parallel to all kinds of queer discrimination in general.
When a reasonable person uses the word "gay" as slang, aren't they just feeding into that stuff? Can they seriously act like they aren't normalizing something that shouldn't be? I can't think of a queer person who hasn't encountered this stuff and like I said, when it really reflects something in you, that hurts. It's toxic. And it creates a toxic environment.
I think being conscious of this and being an adult who can get rid of a word like that from their vocabulary is the best course of action, instead of telling other people to lighten up.
What's that?
I hear queer issues in the Racism thread, I'm finally useful for something!
Wow guys, I had no idea that Homosexual is a race. :getlost:
@Foxy:
Wow guys, I had no idea that Homosexual is a race. :getlost:
Don't be smarmy, I joined in too late to see how it started but when conversations like this evolve naturally let them take their course. It's always been how things have gone here, derails and all you gotta accept it.
@The:
Let me put it this way in the most overly simplified way I can, even if it might dilute my arugment:
There are some reasonable guys who might not mean any kind of offense by saying "gay" as shorthand for stupid, or anything negative. But there are also a ton of people who specifically mean it that way. Walking into a place and having high schoolers gang up and verbally assault you ("hey faggot", "check out that gay guy") for wearing a magenta sweatervest, people that grow up in school environments where students en masse use it derogatorily (I have witnessed kids playing games called SMEER THE QUEER and there's all kinds of stuff like that that does go on), that kind of thing?
It happens a lot and it's pretty parallel to all kinds of queer discrimination in general.
When a reasonable person uses the word "gay" as slang, aren't they just feeding into that stuff? Can they seriously act like they aren't normalizing something that shouldn't be? I can't think of a queer person who hasn't encountered this stuff and like I said, when it really reflects something in you, that hurts. It's toxic. And it creates a toxic environment.
I think being conscious of this and being an adult who can get rid of a word like that from their vocabulary is the best course of action, instead of telling other people to lighten up.
That's all true, unfortunately those evils exist, but in all fairness, high school, you can be isolated and bullied for anything that doesn't conform to normal. Again, different area's, different experiences, a gay cheerleader was one of the most popular kids in our school. And another gay cheerleader was one of the most hated, it was all based on personality. I can't deny those uglies don't exist but I will argue that most adults do stop using the word. My context point is more towards adolescenes than adults.
However, giving into the word just continues that vicious circle as well. You can't stop people from speaking what they want, schools try. How young were you when you said "Fuck". Did anyone stop you, could they stop you? You can discourage it all day but even that adds to temptation. It's downright the very basic psychology, "ITS BAD, AND IM NOT AFRAID OF BEING BAD". See alcohol.
But I find it ironic when people are complaining about "gay sensitivity", yet use retard as a derogatory, which infringes the sensitivity against the mentally disabled.
Threads always derail into the topic of homosexuality at some point lol.
I didn't swear until college :blink:.
Threads always derail into the topic of homosexuality at some point lol.
I didn't swear until college :blink:.
I thought you were going somewhere else with that lol.
I swore up a storm as soon as we innocent little tykes could acquire the neccesary words.
Thought there were some slight misconceptions like when kids used to tell others to suck my pussy
Depends on the usage, the context of the word. If it's describing a person's sexual preference, yes. If it's about how a movie was unsatisfactory, no.
Ahahaha! You are gold, you are!
You can't seperate kids vs adults because by definition a child is considered as such until they are 18, in some countries anyway. If you look at the source of the article;
Oh, yes you can. Drop the mentality that you can't, because it's threading in other dangerous fields.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7289390.stm
You'll see many words were rated. Words that adolescenes typically use, until their early 20's really. By the time they hit "adult" they most likely don't use the word because it seems juvenile. Much like you stop saying "YO".
YO is not related to a social group.
How old are you? Why do you use "shit" and "fucktard" which is "Fucking retard". To be quite frank you're just as insensitive and don't even realize it. Plenty of kids, plenty of schools punish kids for saying the F word, for saying the B word, for cursing in general. Lotta good that has done, so your idea of a solution is ridiculous. Calling someone retarded is just as bad if not worse than what you're trying to defend.
I am sorry, I should've made it clear but I am not calling you mentally retarded, which is VERY different. I am calling people who are using 'gay' as an offensive word -retarded-, because most likely, they are slow and not progressive at all. The word retard has a variation of meanings and not a single group of people has willingly adopted it as their own. Unlike the word gay. For someone who keeps saying they like to do their research, you aren't all that informed even of your own language.
Punishment is not education.
And you prove yourself a hypocrite. If you can't stop the person from using the word, then stop making it a bad word. It's that simple. You used to be unable to say Ass on television, now it's uncensored, so is asshole. Abortions used to be social suicide, now it's acceptable because society changes. Rob paul put it beautifully, the morals of the world has changed, rather than trying to conform people to thinking "WEED IS EVIL, ITLL KILL EVERYONE", we adjust ourselves.
How so?
I am not making it a bad word. People who are using it with the intent of it being bad, are making it a bad word. Ass is not a bad word. It's a part of your body. As is asshole. They are only bad because people use them with bad intent. There's a reason there are warnings for bad language when those words are used like that in a movie. They are not freely used in family friendly movies either. Abortions have always been happening through the centuries. They were social suicide (still are actually if you are like… underage) because sex out of marriage was a social suicide... for women.
Now this is under the assumption that is reasonable and harmless. A word that became a stigma can be changed, not to offend anyone, but to clarify the intention. As common as the usage is, I think it's up for debate, in fact is up for debate.
Weed and abortion are not words that are stigma. They are actions. And weed was never a stigma in my place. Only hard narcotics are. Abortion was and still is kinda but mostly because it's a small community where everyone knows everyone.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But I find it ironic when people are complaining about "gay sensitivity", yet use retard as a derogatory, which infringes the sensitivity against the mentally disabled.
I am sorry, but where I come from, retarded does not equal to mentally disabled. Not even in my mother language. And the way I was taught the word, it was not related to people with Special Needs at all. There are different words for that and we use them. If now YOU use it to call mentally disabled as such, well.. that's your problem and it's a problem indeed.
**retard (third-person singular simple present retards, present participle retarding, simple past and past participle retarded)
- (transitive) To keep delaying; to continue to hinder; to prevent from progress; to render more slow in progress; to impede; to hinder_retard the march of an army__retard the motion of a ship_
- (transitive) To put off; to postpone.to retard the attacks of old age__to retard a rupture between nations
- (transitive, obsolete) To be slow or dilatory to perform (something).
- (intransitive) To decelerate; to slow down.
- (intransitive, obsolete) To stay back.**
Aka in my language -καθυστερημένος-
I am sorry, I should've made it clear but I am not calling you mentally retarded, which is VERY different. I am calling people who are using 'gay' as an offensive word -retarded-, because most likely, they are slow and not progressive at all. The word retard has a variation of meanings and not a single group of people has willingly adopted it as their own. Unlike the word gay. For someone who keeps saying they like to do their research, you aren't all that informed even of your own language.
I don't know, people like Ann Coulter have recently been getting flak from Down syndrome groups and athletes for using the word in a derogatory manner. It's usually regarded as an ableist slur. On the other hand, it does have an older meaning (to be delayed), but CoD players don't really use it that way.
EDIT: Interesting that it means something totally different where you come from… All of my English dictionaries only reference "mental retardation" and I used to see commercials that encouraged people to stop using the word.
Ahahaha! You are gold, you are!
Bronze you is.
Oh, yes you can. Drop the mentality that you can't, because it's threading in other dangerous fields.
It's common knowledge the majority of people who use it are in fact kid's and not adults. Adults who wish to use it in an offensive manner refer to "faggot" which is an entirely different subject.
YO is not related to a social group.
If you define a social group by the word "gay" then you are feeding the vicious circle. It's juvenile to use at an adult age. Much like it's juvenile to say hi to someone by saying YO.
I am sorry, I should've made it clear but I am not calling you mentally retarded, which is VERY different. I am calling people who are using 'gay' as an offensive word -retarded-, because most likely, they are slow and not progressive at all.
http://www.lovethatmax.com/2012/10/ann-coulter-says-r-word-is-not.html
Do you not see the irony? You're trying to fall back on a secondary definition of the word "retard". Welcome to my shoes princess.
Weed and abortion are not words that are stigma. They are actions. And weed was never a stigma in my place. Only hard narcotics are. Abortion was and still is kinda but mostly because it's a small community where everyone knows everyone.
In the united state it is not. However the united states is now fighting for those priveledge. That's because the culture changed, you can see the rift because the younger congressmen are fighting for it, the older, the majority and walling it. That was the underlining point.
I am sorry, but where I come from, retarded does not equal to mentally disabled.
MY GOD. What the f`uck does retard mean, oh let's look at your definition;
(transitive, obsolete) To be slow or dilatory to perform (something).
Put mentally in front of it. What does that mean by definition. To be slow mentally.
Not even in my mother language. And the way I was taught the word, it was not related to people with Special Needs at all. There are different words for that and we use them. If now YOU use it to call mentally disabled as such, well.. that's your problem and it's a problem indeed.
..Just like how adolescenes use gay as slang for lame. Just because you don't know that it is a slang that is offensive doesn't make it any less insensitive.