Zodiac would stomp the Genei Ryodan.. just had to say that.
Hunter x Hunter II
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@Formation:
Zodiac would stomp the Genei Ryodan.. just had to say that.
I'd have my doubts about that.
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I'd have my doubts about that.
Are you serious? These are the same people who netero recognized and he gave them an important video. Ging is a top 5 nen user and hisoka gave rankings off of them (can't really trust him on his rankings though) they would stomp the ryodan. Only person who is worth a damn is kuroro.
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@Formation:
Are you serious? These are the same people who netero recognized and he gave them an important video. Ging is a top 5 nen user and hisoka gave rankings off of them (can't really trust him on his rankings though) they would stomp the ryodan. Only person who is worth a damn is kuroro.
I don't feel that that is a good indicator really. I think this is a series where you actually need to see the people fight. Favoritism and a video within their organization has little to do with an outside group. Not like Netero was saying "Oh man these Zodiacs are strong. But I wish I could get some of the Phantom Troupe here to help out too to decide who should take my place." the Troupe wasn't comprised fully of Hunters anyways. Hisoka was the only one I thought had a license and he dropped the group before the Ant arc. He may still have been a hunter but Netero knew he was psycho. Some of the Zodiacs seemed to be a bit off, but Netero actually knew them.
Anyways. I don't know how much of a one sided fight it would be if any of those groups got into a fight was pretty much all I meant. I don't think it'd be that easy.
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anyway,Spiders are thiefs, right? they don't have any motivation to engage Zodiac in battle.. they're acting from shadows stealth style
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Fun fact: Shalnark also has a hunter license.
It's a detail I completely missed my first time reading the Phantom Troupe arc even though it plays a large role. It's how they were able to track the mafia group Kurapika was working for.
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Fun fact: Shalnark also has a hunter license.
It's a detail I completely missed my first time reading the Phantom Troupe arc even though it plays a large role. It's how they were able to track the mafia group Kurapika was working for.
Ah yeah I thought he might. But I wasn't sure on that part.
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I agree that the zodiacs would obliterate the spiders, because nen is such an obvious power system where you can see from the get go who's the strongest.
Factors like synergy between abilities, preparedness, psychological condition and such don't play a role at all!
It's like the time when they fought against ants and gon, killua, knuckle, morau, shoot, netero, ikurago and palm where all one shotted due the difference in power without delivering a good fight at all…. oh wait...Seriously wtf, stop being so single minded. A lot of mangaka have found out it recent years that writing fights where the difference in "power"(I just have to state that this does not refer to raw strength) isn't the deciding factor, makes them more interesting! Who would have thought...
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Seriously wtf, stop being so single minded. A lot of mangaka have found out it recent years that writing fights where the difference in raw power isn't the deciding factor, makes them more interesting! Who would have thought…
A shame Kubo isn't one of them. Good thing Togashi subverts the shounen formula a bit and kinda tossed out the silly notion of "power levels" and scouters.
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I agree that the zodiacs would obliterate the spiders, because nen is such an obvious power system where you can see from the get go who's the strongest.
Factors like synergy between abilities, preparedness, psychological condition and such don't play a role at all!
It's like the time when they fought against ants and gon, killua, knuckle, morau, shoot, netero, ikurago and palm where all one shotted due the difference in power without delivering a good fight at all…. oh wait...Seriously wtf, stop being so single minded. A lot of mangaka have found out it recent years that writing fights where the difference in "power"(I just have to state that this does not refer to raw strength) isn't the deciding factor, makes them more interesting! Who would have thought...
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Thank you for mentioning the Ant fight. It was something I forgot to add. There are a lot of underdog fights in this series. Even Zetsu made Killua hesitate or back away although Killua was an overall stronger fighter. Togashi is also not an author that's not going to always have a fight where you could accurately predict the winner. Other things have come into play like striking a deal, characters backing off and disappearing, restrictions on the fight and characters with high potential for growth figuring out a stagey during life or death situations and plain ole stubbornness.
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I don't feel that that is a good indicator really. I think this is a series where you actually need to see the people fight. Favoritism and a video within their organization has little to do with an outside group. Not like Netero was saying "Oh man these Zodiacs are strong. But I wish I could get some of the Phantom Troupe here to help out too to decide who should take my place." the Troupe wasn't comprised fully of Hunters anyways. Hisoka was the only one I thought had a license and he dropped the group before the Ant arc. He may still have been a hunter but Netero knew he was psycho. Some of the Zodiacs seemed to be a bit off, but Netero actually knew them. Anyways. I don't know how much of a one sided fight it would be if any of those groups got into a fight was pretty much all I meant. I don't think it'd be that easy.
These are the same people that were introduced after netero died and they have to stop his son.. they have to be crazy strong. Netero trusts them so they ain't no weaklings.
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redon, thank you , it looks great!
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@Formation:
These are the same people that were introduced after Netero died and they have to stop his son.. they have to be crazy strong. Netero trusts them so they ain't no weaklings.
Nobody is denying that, people are just saying that HxH is a little more complex then the typical power scaling in shonen.
"Group X is stronger than group Y because Z trained them." just doesn't work with hunter.
Also Hisoka may have outstanding battle talent and experience, since the Ryodan even commented on this when Hisoka was able to sense Kalluto with him using Zetsu, but the fact that some guys like Phinks, Nobunaga and Machi think they have a chance against him makes me think that the gap in strength can't be that big.
Heck, for the same reason I believe that Meruem will stay the strongest Nen user in the Hunterverse, because introducing something more powerful than him just wouldn't fit in with how nen has been build up in the series. -
That's pretty cool stuff thanks, for sharing!
@Formation:
These are the same people that were introduced after netero died and they have to stop his son.. they have to be crazy strong. Netero trusts them so they ain't no weaklings.
Remember when we got introduced to novu and morau? By that same logic these two should have been insane beasts. Chosen by the chairmain to aid him with the ant hunt. What they were… they were experienced pro hunters nothing more nothing less. One that crumbled psychologically, the other didn't even succeed at his job at containing one royal guard.
Point is your conjecture of how you infer who is strong is just damn flawed, not to mention the fact that it's damn pointless as well given that many other elements play a role in battle outside of one's own skill/power.
Bottom line I can't really share your sentiment of fangasm over the zodiacs, seems so misplaced given how the series is written. -
@Formation:
These are the same people that were introduced after netero died and they have to stop his son.. they have to be crazy strong. Netero trusts them so they ain't no weaklings.
Pretty much what Darth said…It's irrelevant about the Zodiacs and Netero thinking of them in times of emergency and still trying to use that as a power measure for the Phantom Troupe. Why would he contact a group of people that come from a city where people where they have no affiliation with most of the rest of the world? There could very well be people in the Troupe on par with the Zodiacs but they wouldn't have any reason to aid him and he would have no reason to think of them.
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Not that the Hunter-verse necessarily follows this logic, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if at least Ging is tougher than the Genei Ryodan, on the basis of:
Ging's captured Razor before
Razor scared away a group of Ryodan members -
Nobody is denying that, people are just saying that HxH is a little more complex then the typical power scaling in shonen. "Group X is stronger than group Y because Z trained them." just doesn't work with hunter. Also Hisoka may have outstanding battle talent and experience, since the Ryodan even commented on this when Hisoka was able to sense Kalluto with him using Zetsu, but the fact that some guys like Phinks, Nobunaga and Machi think they have a chance against him makes me think that the gap in strength can't be that big. Heck, for the same reason I believe that Meruem will stay the strongest Nen user in the Hunterverse, because introducing something more powerful than him just wouldn't fit in with how nen has been build up in the series.
If you are getting trained by a strong person you will be strong there is no denying that. @DarthAsthma:
That's pretty cool stuff thanks, for sharing! Remember when we got introduced to novu and morau? By that same logic these two should have been insane beasts. Chosen by the chairmain to aid him with the ant hunt. What they were… they were experienced pro hunters nothing more nothing less. One that crumbled psychologically, the other didn't even succeed at his job at containing one royal guard. Point is your conjecture of how you infer who is strong is just damn flawed, not to mention the fact that it's damn pointless as well given that many other elements play a role in battle outside of one's own skill/power. Bottom line I can't really share your sentiment of fangasm over the zodiacs, seems so misplaced given how the series is written.
I don't see how you can compare those people to the Zodiac.. they are recongized by Netero. Ryodan aren't that strong only 1 person can fight. Even from a matchup standpoint they have no chance. One of the ryodan got played by Kurapika. @Cyclone_Baroness:
Pretty much what Darth said…It's irrelevant about the Zodiacs and Netero thinking of them in times of emergency and still trying to use that as a power measure for the Phantom Troupe. Why would he contact a group of people that come from a city where people where they have no affiliation with most of the rest of the world? There could very well be people in the Troupe on par with the Zodiacs but they wouldn't have any reason to aid him and he would have no reason to think of them.
Only person would be the leader everybody else isn't irrelevant. They aren't that impressive. Netero sparred these people in his spare time and let's keep it real none of the ryodan is capable of that.
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@Formation:
If you are getting trained by a strong person you will be strong there is no denying that. I don't see how you can compare those people to the Zodiac.. they are recongized by Netero. Ryodan aren't that strong only 1 person can fight. Even from a matchup standpoint they have no chance. One of the ryodan got played by Kurapika. Only person would be the leader everybody else isn't irrelevant. They aren't that impressive. Netero sparred these people in his spare time and let's keep it real none of the ryodan is capable of that.
What do you mean only one person can fight? You're still missing the point. We haven't seen the full extent of any of these characters. They certainly haven't fought against each other. Or overwhelming odds. The Hunter x Hunter Universe is a lot like the OP Universe in that a fight outcome is not easy to determine like it would be in DBZ. Nobody is saying the Zodiacs aren't strong, but I'm not understanding why you think the Troupe is so weak. Or wouldn't be able to stand their ground even for a little while? Yes Netero was very strong and sparred with the Zodiacs on occasion. Sparring with people doesn't mean you're practicing with an equal.
The leader of the troupe states that the leader is replaceable. They admired him so they violated their own rule to save him. They didn't really need him to keep the group going, but they were fond of him. Yes he's strong enough to hold Hisoka's attention, but so is Gon. What about the Zoldyks? They in their own right insanely strong too. There's going to be some overlap between the groups in terms of strength. I really don't feel it's so cut and dry as you seem to think it is.
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This post is deleted!
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@Formation:
Kuroro is the only ryodan who is strong. Doesn't matter if we haven't seen their abilities if you are hyped by Netero you are automatically strong. Ging is a top 5 nen user and nobody in the ryodan has that potential. Zoldyks would kill the rest of ryodan if they didn't target the leader.. don't see anybody giving them a challenge. Even if they are out of their prime they would lose easily against them. Yes it does sparring with the chairman of the hunter association means you are near his level. Sparring means fighting under different rules he helped them become very strong.
You know what I agree with you, I mean how could I not. The new power scouter: model netero is just so damn accurate.
Let's open camps and advertise it, our enemies? Power scouter: model Hisoka! That one is obvious inaccurate for shit.Ging is friggin 9000 units of netero hype strongfangasm, foam, incontrolable twitching!
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What do you mean only one person can fight? You're still missing the point. We haven't seen the full extent of any of these characters. They certainly haven't fought against each other. Or overwhelming odds. The Hunter x Hunter Universe is a lot like the OP Universe in that a fight outcome is not easy to determine like it would be in DBZ. Nobody is saying the Zodiacs aren't strong, but I'm not understanding why you think the Troupe is so weak. Or wouldn't be able to stand their ground even for a little while? Yes Netero was very strong and sparred with the Zodiacs on occasion. Sparring with people doesn't mean you're practicing with an equal. The leader of the troupe states that the leader is replaceable. They admired him so they violated their own rule to save him. They didn't really need him to keep the group going, but they were fond of him. Yes he's strong enough to hold Hisoka's attention, but so is Gon. What about the Zoldyks? They in their own right insanely strong too. There's going to be some overlap between the groups in terms of strength. I really don't feel it's so cut and dry as you seem to think it is.
Netero sparred with them is different because he's helping them get stronger. If somebody like Ging and the Cow been sparring they are beasts. Ryodan would get played if Zeno and Silva fought the other ones.. whole time though they are old and out of their prime. Zodiacs are stronger the way they have been portrayed and introduced. @DarthAsthma:
You know what I agree with you, I mean how could I not. The new power scouter: model netero is just so damn accurate. Let's open camps and advertise it, our enemies? Power scouter: model Hisoka! That one is obvious inaccurate for shit. Ging is friggin 9000 units of netero hype strongfangasm, foam, incontrolable twitching!
Not my problem you think LOLRyodan is stronger than the Zodiacs.
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@Formation:
Netero sparred with them is different because he's helping them get stronger. If somebody like Ging and the Cow been sparring they are beasts. Ryodan would get played if Zeno and Silva fought the other ones.. whole time though they are old and out of their prime. Zodiacs are stronger the way they have been portrayed and introduced. Not my problem you think LOLRyodan is stronger than the Zodiacs.
Nobody said they were stronger….sigh Okay this isn't productive at all and you still aren't getting it. I'm done.
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@Formation:
Not my problem you think LOLRyodan is stronger than the Zodiacs.
Since it seems the earlier post got deleted, I'll just say I don't think "strength" has a lot of meaning in the hunterverse since that seems to be what togashi has been constantly trying to tell us, at least I got that impression. I'll leave it at that.
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Since it seems the earlier post got deleted, I'll just say I don't think "strength" has a lot of meaning in the hunterverse since that seems to be what togashi has been constantly trying to tell us, at least I got that impression. I'll leave it at that.
Some Nen abilities do have better matchups but experience does count. Kuroro vs Old Zeno and Silva his life was about to be over shortly until the phone rang. I do agree with you though have to factor in matchups, nen, abilities, technique, battle tactics and physical power.
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@Formation:
If you are getting trained by a strong person you will be strong there is no denying that.
…where did I even imply this wasn't the case?
Dude, you don't need to react this harshly to everyone refuting your points with arguments, and you know, actual reasons, people just want to convey the idea that this isn't DBZ, Netero => his crew > Genei Ryodan for some reason?
I also find it odd that you use the over-simplistic power measurement "Netero was crazy strong, he trained these guys, so that means they are better than most of the ryodan, because something." Fine, but why didn't you even address my observation with Machi, Phinks and Nobunaga having enough confidence to think they can take on Hisoka, a character who has been often praised as being extremely talented with lots of experience, making a seemingly harmless ability one of the deadliest in the whole series, being well known and instantly recognized by some of the zodiac members, even only giving the bunny lady like 70 points, which looks pathetic compared to the sheep guy and Illumi. Why doesn't your scaling apply here? Maybe Hisoka isn't much for you compared to Netero for you, but surely you recognize him still being a well established fighter in the series with a fearsome reputation, so following your logic this should at least present some form of valuable measurement that follows your line of thought.
I mean, why can't the Zodiacs be like the Ryodan? Some members with extraordinary battle experience and proficiency, but some guys with more gimmicky powers, like Kortopi who I suppose doesn't compare in strength to the other members? -
…where did I even imply this wasn't the case? Dude, you don't need to react this harshly to everyone refuting your points with arguments, and you know, actual reasons, people just want to convey the idea that this isn't DBZ, Netero => his crew > Genei Ryodan for some reason? I also find it odd that you use the over-simplistic power measurement "Netero was crazy strong, he trained these guys, so that means they are better than most of the ryodan, because something." Fine, but why didn't you even address my observation with Machi, Phinks and Nobunaga having enough confidence to think they can take on Hisoka, a character who has been often praised as being extremely talented with lots of experience, making a seemingly harmless ability one of the deadliest in the whole series, being well known and instantly recognized by some of the zodiac members, even only giving the bunny lady like 70 points, which looks pathetic compared to the sheep guy and Illumi. Why doesn't your scaling apply here? Maybe Hisoka isn't much for you compared to Netero for you, but surely you recognize him still being a well established fighter in the series with a fearsome reputation, so following your logic this should at least present some form of valuable measurement that follows your line of thought. I mean, why can't the Zodiacs be like the Ryodan? Some members with extraordinary battle experience and proficiency, but some guys with more gimmicky powers, like Kortopi who I suppose doesn't compare in strength to the other members?
It's obvious that Zodiac would stomp the weak Ryodan but it's ok if you like them. Nobunaga, Machi and Phinks are weak. They literally have no experience battling anybody super strong. You can't look too much into the Hisoka ratings… everybody wasn't giving off their nen and some would be concealing their aura.. so again the point system isn't anything to based them in rankings.
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@Formation:
Nobunaga, Machi and Phinks are weak.
Have we seriously been reading the same comic? Or did you just kinda skip a lot of chapters or read a brief online summary?
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Have we seriously been reading the same comic? Or did you just kinda skip a lot of chapters or read a brief online summary?
Nobunaga said EN masters can go up to 50m then we later saw Zeno use EN up to 300m. Stop the Ryodan wank they are weak and aren't revelant anymore. I like characters but im being realistic about how strong they are.
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I can't tell if you're trolling now or more of a fan boy for the Zodiacs than I thought…But how about we change the topic? Something other than imaginary fights?
I vote for the anime discussion.
Anyone think they'll go through with the Hisoka scene looming in the distant future? Or edit it out?
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@Formation:
Nobunaga said EN masters can go up to 50m then we later saw Zeno use EN up to 300m. Stop the Ryodan wank they are weak and aren't revelant anymore. I like characters but im being realistic about how strong they are.
First off, I'm convinced you don't even know what you're talking about.
If you wanted to deem the "Ryodan as weak" fine, but why did you refer to Nobu, Machi, and Phinks? Why didn't you just refer to Pakunoda, Shizuku, or Kortopi instead? Shouldn't they be the obvious ones dragging down the "Ryodan's supposed strength"?Second, how are they not relevant any more? You do know their story arc is still hanging in mid-air? Due to their popularity, I'm pretty confident that Togashi isn't going to toss them out of the story.
Third, do you know anything about any of the ryodan's EN radius? If so, please tell me. I really want to know (especially Lucifer's since he did actually face both Zeno and Silva at the same time).
Fourth, "realistic about strength"? You do know how ridiculous it is to put power levels on HxH characters. Supposedly "Uvogin" was the strongest and Lucifer is…what...the 6th strongest within the Ryodan? Yet, Lucifer is technically the "boss". Why would that be? Mostly because there are dozens of factors that goes outside of "purely power levels".
Actually you know what, Formation is probably trolling. No one that closely follows HxH should be convinced that the serie upholds the formulaic "what does the scouter say Vegeta?" to determine a character's combat proficiency. Especially when the Zodiacs have yet to demonstrate any of their skills in a formal battle.
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I can't tell if you're trolling now or more of a fan boy for the Zodiacs than I thought…But how about we change the topic? Something other than imaginary fights
aww, come on, I still have something to say! The discussion is still civil, there may be a passive aggressive undertone, but at least we're not flinging poop at each other. And imaginary battles of fictional characters is a cornerstone of nerdom.
Also, I don't mean you by this, but people really should stop throwing the word troll around, it's kinda losing its meaning when applied to opinion ≠ general consensus, just like how emo become the average word for slightest amount of distress.
Anyway, what was I talking about again?
Oh yeah, Ryodan compared to the Zodiac, really went of the topic thereIt's obvious that Zodiac would stomp the weak Ryodan but it's ok if you like them.
Actually, I think you are unfairly trying to portray me as a Ryodan fanboy, I like them as antagonists, but I kind of think they deserve to die, especially Phinks and Feitan, realized that after last episode, what kind of sick fuck just goes around killing people as a contest? What irredeemable assholes. The others hanging around with them also doesn't make them look good. Yeah, I know, Togashi went to great length so still make them look like normal humans with some sympathetic scenes, but still.
With the movie chapter describing how brutally they murdered the Kurata clan just makes me feel more this way.
But back to the strength of the ryodan; alright, let's take your premise and say the Ryodan are weak shits compared to the zodiacs, why would they even be recognized as big deal? Almost every time these guys are mentioned it's someone talking about them in a fearful way, also the fact that they are so notorious and most of them are pretty young, isn't that even more speaking for them? Mizaistorm is a black list hunter, he should have some interest in taking the guys out, why didn't he ask his absurdly strong friends to handle the situation? It's just another obligation for the Hunter Organization, but apparently not something that easy, since nobody has done it yet, unless you argue that the whole organization is just incompetent in getting their A team together, seeing how many people were involved in the ant situation. And they took out the whole friggin' mafia, that has to be worth something?
I'm not even denying that they could be weaker than the Zodiac, I expect Sheep, Dragon and Ging to have a lot of combat experience, but it isn't that unlikely that maybe someone like Clock also only plays the role of a supporter?
I don't know, saying that they would stomp the Ryodan seems a little farfetched. I'm kinda seeing what your getting at, but there was still nothing shown that should lead someone to such a bold conclusion.Nobunaga, Machi and Phinks are weak. They literally have no experience battling anybody super strong.
You don't really know that, do you? Again, they have to be well known and feared for some reason, probably pulled of a lot of heists fucking around with dangerous people. Also, define super strong. The only enemies in the series so far that I would define being that are the royal guards and Meruem, Netero was somewhere around royal guard level, a little above I suppose, and not even a threat to the ant king, probably every zodiac would get their ass handed to by Netero, for a human he was just completely off the charts, I give you that, but unfair to use him as main comparison.
You can't look too much into the Hisoka ratings… everybody wasn't giving off their nen and some would be concealing their aura.. so again the point system isn't anything to based them in rankings.
Maybe not too much, but I still trust it a lot. Togashi went to great lengths to make abundantly clear that Hisoka possesses a great amount of experience, even being so confident to sacrifice his arm like it's nothing, the kind of guy someone like Illumi thinks is useful, I place a lot of confidence in his judgement.
Nobunaga said EN masters can go up to 50m then we later saw Zeno use EN up to 300m.
That's…actually a good point. But again, we don't really know what that means in comparison to anything. Zeno is one of the oldest and most experienced nen users, so of course he has good control over the technique, but Nobunaga can permanently hold up an en circle of 15m for an indefinite time, without showing get tired by it, and we know En requires a lot of stamina and focus. It also works well with his sword, so there's that.
My point is I wouldn't underestimate them, that's all.Edit; also what valiantt said, we have barely seen the Ryodan do anything.
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@Formation:
Nobunaga said EN masters can go up to 50m then we later saw Zeno use EN up to 300m.
- Keep in mind who was he talking to in the conversation.
If the average is 50 for a super experienced guy, its a bit silly to say "the very best known users had a range as high as 300 meters, but most don't go past 50." In context, most people have a max of 50 with years of training, if even that. More if the specialize in it, less if they don't.
2)Being able to see 300 meters for a second is useful sure… but is it as useful as seeing 15 meters indefinitely? Abilties vary. 300 meters could be a personal specialty. I'm sure there are others that don't have the ability at all that get along just fine.
(Naruto example, Rock Lee. Sucks at the main ninja forms, but excels at hand to hand.)
3)Given the rankings Hisoka was assigning based on his personal observation, even professional hunters are pretty weak compared to the elites that naturally proliferate the series. By default of following the protagonists of a shonen manga, we're naturally seeing the best and brightest freaks the world has to offer. Even pro hunters suck compared to the best... and pro hunters are already elite among elite.
- What was the King's range? He was pretty broadly painted as by far the strongest nen user in the world and basically unstoppable in a fair one on one. He was able to see the entire palace and nearly every detail in it (except things that were covered.) Wouldn't his ability dwarf Zeno's? And pretty much every character to come for the rest of the series that matter?
5)And speaking of Zeno... The Zoldyck's are pretty blatantly tossed around as the strongest most fearsome guys around, Zeno especially. Using them as a measuring stick for anything other than Killua is a misguided attempt. Not to mention, Zeno AND Silva working together still had a lot of trouble with Chrollo on his own.
Stop the Ryodan wank they are weak and aren't revelant anymore. I like characters but im being realistic about how strong they are.
Strong enough to be a main plot thread for one of the leads for the rest of the series.
And pure strength aint everything. Abilities and uses of them are the main thing in this series.
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Also insinuating that Nobunaga is weak is a bad idea in particular since he's the only member of the Ryodan that we don't know the Hatsu ability of as of yet. So even under that peculiar line of logic it's a bit of an unfair assumption to make since we don't know the true extent of what he can do.
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what a dumb argument
ideally should have ended when people explained that HXH isn't based around simple power levelsthanks for those pics btw Redon
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First off, I'm convinced you don't even know what you're talking about. If you wanted to deem the "Ryodan as weak" fine, but why did you refer to Nobu, Machi, and Phinks? Why didn't you just refer to Pakunoda, Shizuku, or Kortopi instead? Shouldn't they be the obvious ones dragging down the "Ryodan's supposed strength"? Second, how are they not relevant any more? You do know their story arc is still hanging in mid-air? Due to their popularity, I'm pretty confident that Togashi isn't going to toss them out of the story. Third, do you know anything about any of the ryodan's EN radius? If so, please tell me. I really want to know (especially Lucifer's since he did actually face both Zeno and Silva at the same time). Fourth, "realistic about strength"? You do know how ridiculous it is to put power levels on HxH characters. Supposedly "Uvogin" was the strongest and Lucifer is…what...the 6th strongest within the Ryodan? Yet, Lucifer is technically the "boss". Why would that be? Mostly because there are dozens of factors that goes outside of "purely power levels". Actually you know what, Formation is probably trolling. No one that closely follows HxH should be convinced that the serie upholds the formulaic "what does the scouter say Vegeta?" to determine a character's combat proficiency. Especially when the Zodiacs have yet to demonstrate any of their skills in a formal battle.
Earlier poster mentioned them and I was stating my views on them. They don't have an important role anymore they are just hanging around and with the events going on now they have no purpose being in the story again. Don't need to know EN radius of the ryodan it means that they aren't strong and haven't fought anybody strong. @Sheep:
aww, come on, I still have something to say! The discussion is still civil, there may be a passive aggressive undertone, but at least we're not flinging poop at each other. And imaginary battles of fictional characters is a cornerstone of nerdom. Also, I don't mean you by this, but people really should stop throwing the word troll around, it's kinda losing its meaning when applied to opinion ≠ general consensus, just like how emo become the average word for slightest amount of distress. Anyway, what was I talking about again? Oh yeah, Ryodan compared to the Zodiac, really went of the topic there Actually, I think you are unfairly trying to portray me as a Ryodan fanboy, I like them as antagonists, but I kind of think they deserve to die, especially Phinks and Feitan, realized that after last episode, what kind of sick fuck just goes around killing people as a contest? What irredeemable assholes. The others hanging around with them also doesn't make them look good. Yeah, I know, Togashi went to great length so still make them look like normal humans with some sympathetic scenes, but still. With the movie chapter describing how brutally they murdered the Kurata clan just makes me feel more this way. But back to the strength of the ryodan; alright, let's take your premise and say the Ryodan are weak shits compared to the zodiacs, why would they even be recognized as big deal? Almost every time these guys are mentioned it's someone talking about them in a fearful way, also the fact that they are so notorious and most of them are pretty young, isn't that even more speaking for them? Mizaistorm is a black list hunter, he should have some interest in taking the guys out, why didn't he ask his absurdly strong friends to handle the situation? It's just another obligation for the Hunter Organization, but apparently not something that easy, since nobody has done it yet, unless you argue that the whole organization is just incompetent in getting their A team together, seeing how many people were involved in the ant situation. And they took out the whole friggin' mafia, that has to be worth something? I'm not even denying that they could be weaker than the Zodiac, I expect Sheep, Dragon and Ging to have a lot of combat experience, but it isn't that unlikely that maybe someone like Clock also only plays the role of a supporter? I don't know, saying that they would stomp the Ryodan seems a little farfetched. I'm kinda seeing what your getting at, but there was still nothing shown that should lead someone to such a bold conclusion. You don't really know that, do you? Again, they have to be well known and feared for some reason, probably pulled of a lot of heists fucking around with dangerous people. Also, define super strong. The only enemies in the series so far that I would define being that are the royal guards and Meruem, Netero was somewhere around royal guard level, a little above I suppose, and not even a threat to the ant king, probably every zodiac would get their ass handed to by Netero, for a human he was just completely off the charts, I give you that, but unfair to use him as main comparison. Maybe not too much, but I still trust it a lot. Togashi went to great lengths to make abundantly clear that Hisoka possesses a great amount of experience, even being so confident to sacrifice his arm like it's nothing, the kind of guy someone like Illumi thinks is useful, I place a lot of confidence in his judgement. That's…actually a good point. But again, we don't really know what that means in comparison to anything. Zeno is one of the oldest and most experienced nen users, so of course he has good control over the technique, but Nobunaga can permanently hold up an en circle of 15m for an indefinite time, without showing get tired by it, and we know En requires a lot of stamina and focus. It also works well with his sword, so there's that. My point is I wouldn't underestimate them, that's all. Edit; also what valiantt said, we have barely seen the Ryodan do anything.
Ryodan haven't killed anybody strong have they? They have been killing weak people for their entire careers…nothing impressive about that. Hisoka is strong but he would lose to Netero and other hunters who are on his level or stronger. @RobbyBevard:
- Keep in mind who was he talking to in the conversation. If the average is 50 for a super experienced guy, its a bit silly to say "the very best known users had a range as high as 300 meters, but most don't go past 50." In context, most people have a max of 50 with years of training, if even that. More if the specialize in it, less if they don't. 2)Being able to see 300 meters for a second is useful sure… but is it as useful as seeing 15 meters indefinitely? Abilties vary. 300 meters could be a personal specialty. I'm sure there are others that don't have the ability at all that get along just fine. (Naruto example, Rock Lee. Sucks at the main ninja forms, but excels at hand to hand.) 3)Given the rankings Hisoka was assigning based on his personal observation, even professional hunters are pretty weak compared to the elites that naturally proliferate the series. By default of following the protagonists of a shonen manga, we're naturally seeing the best and brightest freaks the world has to offer. Even pro hunters suck compared to the best... and pro hunters are already elite among elite. 4) What was the King's range? He was pretty broadly painted as by far the strongest nen user in the world and basically unstoppable in a fair one on one. He was able to see the entire palace and nearly every detail in it (except things that were covered.) Wouldn't his ability dwarf Zeno's? And pretty much every character to come for the rest of the series that matter? 5)And speaking of Zeno... The Zoldyck's are pretty blatantly tossed around as the strongest most fearsome guys around, Zeno especially. Using them as a measuring stick for anything other than Killua is a misguided attempt. Not to mention, Zeno AND Silva working together still had a lot of trouble with Chrollo on his own. Strong enough to be a main plot thread for one of the leads for the rest of the series. And pure strength aint everything. Abilities and uses of them are the main thing in this series.
Nobunaga hasn't fought anybody strong or been trained thats why his EN is so pathetic.. and he got played by two little kids. We still haven't seen all of the elite hunters wouldn't claim that statement yet. Zeno is older so obviously his en isn't going to be as much like he was younger. You really see any of the Ryodan sparring with Netero besides Kuroro? They wouldn't even last 1 minute against him.
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@Formation:
Earlier poster mentioned them and I was stating my views on them. They don't have an important role anymore they are just hanging around and with the events going on now they have no purpose being in the story again. Don't need to know EN radius of the ryodan it means that they aren't strong and haven't fought anybody strong. Ryodan haven't killed anybody strong have they? They have been killing weak people for their entire careers…nothing impressive about that. Hisoka is strong but he would lose to Netero and other hunters who are on his level or stronger. Nobunaga hasn't fought anybody strong or been trained thats why his EN is so pathetic.. and he got played by two little kids. We still haven't seen all of the elite hunters wouldn't claim that statement yet. Zeno is older so obviously his en isn't going to be as much like he was younger. You really see any of the Ryodan sparring with Netero besides Kuroro? They wouldn't even last 1 minute against him.
I know I said I was done with you…But. Are you just purposely not reading?
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You are making tons of baseless and huge sweeping statements off your personal preferences for the Zodiacs over the Troupe. We don't know everything about characters for either group. We haven't seen any of them in a tough situation aside from Zeno, Lucifer and Netero.In case you forgot they found a Nen eraser for Lucifer. Just because Togashi hasn't looped back to them or Kurapika in the story doesn't mean they have no relevance or aren't a threat. Not every arc is going to involve them. And it shouldn't. The Troupe have killed strong characters. Those beasts that the mafia hired to protect the auction were supposed to be fearsome and Kurapika's clan.
And Netero is dead. So it doesn't matter if you think they can't take him on because it'll never come up unless Togashi decides he wants to go take a play from Kishi's book and brings him back as a zombie.
You are really focusing in on the wrong parts of the discussion overall and ignoring that Togashi doesn't write fights with a clear outcome. Saying the Troupe isn't strong or calling them weak is probably the silliest thing to say. All I initially said to you a couple pages ago was that I don't think it'd be as one sided or so simple for the Zodiacs to fight the Troupe. I stand by that. Nothing you have said so far convinces me otherwise.
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You are really focusing in on the wrong parts of the discussion overall and ignoring that Togashi doesn't write fights with a clear outcome. Saying the Troupe isn't strong or calling them weak is probably the silliest thing to say. All I initially said to you a couple pages ago was that I don't think it'd be as one sided or so simple for the Zodiacs to fight the Troupe. I stand by that. Nothing you have said so far convinces me otherwise.
You know how many times this has been said by multiple posters in the past few pages? And all Y Formation has been doing in response is:
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Besides, the argument was never originally if Netero can take on the phantom troupe. It is pretty "Irrelevant" considering, like cyclone said, the guy is dead. It is also a stretch to suggest that the zodiac can match Netero's strength since they are his underlings (which they have done nothing so far to demonstrate it). Also to consider the Phantom troupe as irrelevant to the plot is inaccurate considering how Kurapika's entire purpose revolves around deposing all of them (and…if you have forgotten, Kurapika is kinda a main character right?). In fact, I don't even know why I'm still going, everyone else pretty much summed up why you're grasping at straws here.
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Didn't Nobunaga himself said that his En is not that huge, however anything that comes inside gets killed instantly by his sword? I mean, yeah Zeno has 300m En, but it's mostly for sensing things. But Nobunaga's En is his body's extension basically. And obviously, as we saw, not every Ryodan member is a figher type. I'm sure Korotopi and Shizuku would mop the floor with any average nen user, but their role in the Ryodan is not a fighting one. There are Phinks, Nobunaga and Feitan for that. They're a team, not individual powerhouses.
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I'm wondering if he's counting Hisoka as well, since I'm pretty sure Hisoka is at least on par with Illumi, who he ranked as stronger than most of the zodiac.
ANyways, is there ever a point in arguing with this guy? He's the same guy who has been arguing that Zoro is weaker than Kinemon in ONe Piece and who is convinced there are 4 super strong top samurai based entirely off of a few generic sillhouettes in one panel descrbing Wano from someone who had never even been there -
Maybe I'm a slowpoke, but I just noticed in the Anime that Killua's footsteps don't have a sound.
Kinda blew my mind when I realized it.
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Maybe I'm a slowpoke, but I just noticed in the Anime that Killua's footsteps don't have a sound.
Kinda blew my mind when I realized it.
That's actually quite awesome. I never noticed that before.
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Just weighing in here: I think the Zodiac is far stronger than the Ryodan. If they were Netero's sparring partners, then you would think that they'd be able to stand up to Netero for a few minutes at a time. That puts them well above almost every Nen user we've seen, if Netero uses his Hatsu to spar. If not, then they'd still have to be at least around Razor's level. It wouldn't be a stomp, but the Zodiac would beat the Ryodan by a fair margin. Sorry if someone already said this.
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I know I said I was done with you…But. Are you just purposely not reading?
! [qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/Zencho/BeCool_zpsb52c7623.gif[/qimg] You are making tons of baseless and huge sweeping statements off your personal preferences for the Zodiacs over the Troupe. We don't know everything about characters for either group. We haven't seen any of them in a tough situation aside from Zeno, Lucifer and Netero. In case you forgot they found a Nen eraser for Lucifer. Just because Togashi hasn't looped back to them or Kurapika in the story doesn't mean they have no relevance or aren't a threat. Not every arc is going to involve them. And it shouldn't. The Troupe have killed strong characters. Those beasts that the mafia hired to protect the auction were supposed to be fearsome and Kurapika's clan. And Netero is dead. So it doesn't matter if you think they can't take him on because it'll never come up unless Togashi decides he wants to go take a play from Kishi's book and brings him back as a zombie. You are really focusing in on the wrong parts of the discussion overall and ignoring that Togashi doesn't write fights with a clear outcome. Saying the Troupe isn't strong or calling them weak is probably the silliest thing to say. All I initially said to you a couple pages ago was that I don't think it'd be as one sided or so simple for the Zodiacs to fight the Troupe. I stand by that. Nothing you have said so far convinces me otherwise.
Ryodan got played by Gon and Killua.. nuff said about them. Do you really see any of the Ryodan giving Netero a challenge? Ging is a top 5 nen user thanks for Netero. Ging alone would take out more than half of the Ryodan alone based off his hype. It wouldn't help either if Hisoka gave him a rating heck… all of the Zodiac ratings. Netero is going to be in the next HXH movie. It's not like the Zodiac are going anywhere it will be explained more and right now they relevant right now.
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@Formation:
Ryodan got played by Gon and Killua.. nuff said about them. Do you really see any of the Ryodan giving Netero a challenge? Ging is a top 5 nen user thanks for Netero. Ging alone would take out more than half of the Ryodan alone based off his hype. It wouldn't help either if Hisoka gave him a rating heck… all of the Zodiac ratings. Netero is going to be in the next HXH movie. It's not like the Zodiac are going anywhere it will be explained more and right now they relevant right now.
I thought you were banned…Were you just on a time out? Welcome back I guess.
Again...I think you're just guessing. I don't recall Netero being responsible for Ging's progress. Ging was talented on his own was my understanding.
Also you just used the magic word. "Hype."
[h=1]hype[/h]
[h=2][/h]1 [hahyp] Show IPA verb, hyped, hyp·ing, noun Informal.verb (used with object) 1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate (usually followed by up ): She was hyped up at the thought of owning her own car.
2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily: a promoter who knows how to hype a prizefight.
3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc. (usually followed by up ).
4. to trick; gull.
noun 5. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
6. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
7. a swindle, deception, or trick.
Hype does not necessarily mean truth.
So what if Netero is going to be in the next movie? That's in the past. He's still dead now.
The Troupe isn't going anywhere either. In fact…Oh hey guess who's also in the movie?
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I thought you were banned…Were you just on a time out? Welcome back I guess. Again...I think you're just guessing. I don't recall Netero being responsible for Ging's progress. Ging was talented on his own was my understanding. Also you just used the magic word. "Hype." [h=1]hype[/h] [h=2][/h]1 [hahyp] Show IPA verb, hyped, hyp·ing, noun Informal. verb (used with object) 1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate (usually followed by up ): She was hyped up at the thought of owning her own car. 2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily: a promoter who knows how to hype a prizefight. 3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc. (usually followed by up ). 4. to trick; gull. noun 5. exaggerated publicity; hoopla. 6. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect. 7. a swindle, deception, or trick. Hype does not necessarily mean truth. So what if Netero is going to be in the next movie? That's in the past. He's still dead now. The Troupe isn't going anywhere either. In fact…Oh hey guess who's also in the movie?
Please go ahead and say which Ryodan members would be able to take on Ging since you believe they are so strong.
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@Formation:
Please go ahead and say which Ryodan members would be able to take on Ging since you believe they are so strong.
Never once did I say that they could utterly destroy the Zodiacs or whatever it is you seem to think I said. Go back a few pages. In response to your random post about the Zodiacs beating up the Troupe. I said that I don't think it'd be as easy as you seem to make it to be. If we had more facts about either group other than who their boss is what their names are and some general ideas about their abilities and jobs, then we could start to maybe have a clear cut idea of who would win in a fight. And for the 4th or 5th time. Togashi doesn't always write out fights that make it super obvious who would win a fight. I think it boils down to Ging's style really. I don't know who'd be a terrible match up or equal or below his skill. I would guess Phinks, Franklin Maybe? I dunno maybe Ging isn't too bright and gets confused by Kuropti or whatever. We don't know enough about any of these guys. We've just seen glimpses.
I don't even know what Ging has done other than in your words spar with Netero on occassion? I know he's treasure hunted, rode a dragon thingy, helped make a game, ditched his son and got punched by Leorio. We get that he's a top Nen user, but that could mean practically anything. I'm not denying he's probably strong to carry out some of whatever it is he may do.
We also haven't seen the Troupe struggle with anything. Half the time they aren't trying. And pretty much all we have seen from the Zodiacs is how they campaign for elections.
I don't know why you are getting so fluffy about this. That's really all their is to it. Not enough facts to decide something like who would be able to beat who.
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At minimum, part of the making a game bit includes capturing a dude who gives Phinks pause.
At maximum, part of the making a game bit includes capturing a dude who doesn't get dogpiled by a group of Phinks, Feitan, Franklin, Shalnark, Shizuku, and Kortopi.
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Never once did I say that they could utterly destroy the Zodiacs or whatever it is you seem to think I said. Go back a few pages. In response to your random post about the Zodiacs beating up the Troupe. I said that I don't think it'd be as easy as you seem to make it to be. If we had more facts about either group other than who their boss is what their names are and some general ideas about their abilities and jobs, then we could start to maybe have a clear cut idea of who would win in a fight. And for the 4th or 5th time. Togashi doesn't always write out fights that make it super obvious who would win a fight. I think it boils down to Ging's style really. I don't know who'd be a terrible match up or equal or below his skill. I would guess Phinks, Franklin Maybe? I dunno maybe Ging isn't too bright and gets confused by Kuropti or whatever. We don't know enough about any of these guys. We've just seen glimpses. I don't even know what Ging has done other than in your words spar with Netero on occassion? I know he's treasure hunted, rode a dragon thingy, helped make a game, ditched his son and got punched by Leorio. We get that he's a top Nen user, but that could mean practically anything. I'm not denying he's probably strong to carry out some of whatever it is he may do. We also haven't seen the Troupe struggle with anything. Half the time they aren't trying. And pretty much all we have seen from the Zodiacs is how they campaign for elections. I don't know why you are getting so fluffy about this. That's really all their is to it. Not enough facts to decide something like who would be able to beat who.
To think Loldan think they would be able to take on Ging.. he would wipe them out easily. Maybe you forget two of the ryodan members aren't here anymore got fooled by nen users who just recently learned it. http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Zodiac_Twelve
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@Formation:
To think Loldan think they would be able to take on Ging.. he would wipe them out easily. Maybe you forget two of the ryodan members aren't here anymore got fooled by nen users who just recently learned it. http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Zodiac_Twelve
sigh What does that have to do with anything? Gon and Killua are main characters, the heroes if you will. They are exceptional for their age and are bound to out wit other characters every now and then. Do I need to remind you Netero nearly fell for their tricks as well?
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v02/c014/5.html
Gon and Killua are going to be shown to be exceptionally crafty in tough times. It's part of their character to do things most wouldn't expect as a tactic. And they hadn't used Nen at this point or heard of it. Netero recovered the ball but it still caught him off guard.