Oda has a habit of nerfing fruits, though. Enel's and Kizaru's should be way more powerful than they're depicted to be.
Or even better: nerfing the user.
Kuma, Caribou and Perona say hello.
Oda has a habit of nerfing fruits, though. Enel's and Kizaru's should be way more powerful than they're depicted to be.
Or even better: nerfing the user.
Kuma, Caribou and Perona say hello.
kizaru i understand because he's limited to the speed he can think either way, him being a little slow nerfs his ability on it's own, and i don't think Enel's wasn't nerfed that much, god knows what it would take to wipe him out if luffy wasn't rubber. It was stated in an sbs (i think) that if enel was on the blue seas his bounty would have been ~500m, if you think about it even law is only at 440. I don't mind it being nerfed or anything- i just wish there was consistency on how they're nerfed.
I'm really getting worried now though, who the hell is gonna bust into PH and save the day now!?!? wouldn't be too bad if it was the swordsman trio, 3styles too. but to take out CC, Vergo, Monet if she has any fighting power, and the probably smoker cause like hell he'll let them get away again
Enel could have been a yonko if he was on blue seas.
Enel could have been a yonko if he was on blue seas.
Enel depended on his logia abilities too much. He would be dominated in the New World.
I think that Smoker consists of ~ 98% ammonium so CC can make him instant boom!
He used haki though, also known as Mantra in Skypiea.
He used haki though, also known as Mantra in Skypiea.
He can use obervation haki, but he still would get his ass handed to him in the New World.
Eneru relied on his logia abilities too much, which would be his downfall.
Oda has a habit of nerfing fruits, though. Enel's and Kizaru's should be way more powerful than they're depicted to be.
I'd also add Foxy's Noro-Noro ability, considering he only ever used one attack throughout and how insanely cheap it would be if Foxy was less of a boob and experimented more with his fruit ability.
@Miss:
This is the cancerous problem crawling all over this fanbase. Why can they not be new? Why is new not interesting? Why does it have to be Crocodile in drag or OMGSOAWESOMESUPERNOVA for it to have any relevance anymore? You've seen nothing of them and you're already putting them down? All that says is people (or the dumb ones) have lost hope in Oda and only read this to see their same old fanwank characters come back over and over.
Fortunately, the chances of them actually being new is much higher than it being Urogue wearing a clown wig and post-op Hawkins. Thank goodness for that, eh?
Despite (or maybe because) of the lack imagination some people on the forums both tend to come up with harebrained theories and constantnly bitch about trivial stuff.
Goes something like this:
*New character is introduced in a benign manner.
It's as if after 15 years going people STILL haven't figured out that it makes no difference what a character looks like, as long as they are doing something cool.
@Galaxy:
He can use obervation haki, but he still would get his ass handed to him in the New World.
Eneru relied on his logia abilities too much, which would be his downfall.
It was stated by Robin that his devil fruit could be considered as one of the few that could be 'invincible'.
Luffy was his weakness because rubber doesn't generate electricity. It insulates it. That's why you see that shit all wrapped up over wires.
Though I don't think I really needed to mention that.
oh well.
LOGIC UP IN HERE.
New characters are good! It's just…I want this series to end at some point before I die, and wrapping up old plotlines helps that happen.
Are you just really old or this supposed to be exaggerated to make a point?
Personally I'd rather One Piece kept going for many more years, and don't care if I see the ending.
The ride itself is what makes it worthwhile, not the conclusion.
It was stated by Robin that his devil fruit could be considered as one of the few that could be 'invincible'.
Luffy was his weakness because rubber doesn't generate electricity. It insulates it.That's why you see that shit all wrapped up over wires.
Though I don't think I really needed to mention that.
oh well.
LOGIC UP IN HERE.
This was probably before Robin had any idea what Haki was. Anybody with armanent could beat him with no trouble.
I don't think it is an ability, but more like something from Law's past (while he was still working under Dofla). I guess it is either a device similar to the slave collars at Saobody, or Law presented him his own heart as a sign of loyalty.
In any case, I really doubt Vergo has an ability that brings someone like Law to his knees without even lifting a finger.
You're right I should have clarified. Not like DF ability but the ability to make Law his b!tch through an unseen mechanism.
Oda has a habit of nerfing fruits, though. Enel's and Kizaru's should be way more powerful than they're depicted to be.
We need to have a nerf gun devil fruit!!!
Next chapter:
Zoro: "Oi, where did that Master go? … Why the heck is so much blood! Oi, are you still alive? Where did he go, what happened here?!"
Brownbeard: " Nothing happened!"Someone please draw this.
Omg, yes, yes. I so want to see that o.o
Oda has a habit of nerfing fruits, though. Enel's and Kizaru's should be way more powerful than they're depicted to be.
Enel's fruit was god-like he just ran into the worst possible circumstances for himself. Kizaru has yet to be hurt and he can take down skyscraper sized trees with a kick and he shoots weak beams through Hawkins and drops him. I think Ace's fruit got screwed over the most since everyone and their mother can do fire style attacks and apparently fire can't beat ice or smoke, and loses to magma
Enel's fruit was god-like he just ran into the worst possible circumstances for himself. Kizaru has yet to be hurt and he can take down skyscraper sized trees with a kick and he shoots weak beams through Hawkins and drops him. I think Ace's fruit got screwed over the most since everyone and their mother can do fire style attacks and apparently fire can't beat ice or smoke, and loses to magma
Do you mean hurt as in injured (Kizaru), or hurt as in drawing blood? Because he drew blood on Sabaody from Rayleigh's sword cutting his cheek.
And I've always been under the impression that since it's in the One Piece world, the elements don't have to be the same (or as powerful) as our world. Our world isn't the Grand Line, I don't see why the elements in One Piece have to be the same power as ours. OR, and we might get this explanation from Vegapunk, maybe you can never truly become an element, a Logia Devil Fruit just gives you the closest imitation of that element.
@Galaxy:
This was probably before Robin had any idea what Haki was. Anybody with armanent could beat him with no trouble.
Like saying anyone with armanent is absolutely invincible to anything…ever.
I think with Enel's pure, raw, force of nature logia mixed with his Mantra, he would be very high up in pirate standards, even in the New World. There's only so much armanent can protect against, and for only so long until you make one slip and 1000000 volts of lightning go coursing through your veins.
Now that we know Kidd is involved, maybe he's the one that made it so Log Poses won't point to Punk Hazard? By changing the magnetic field of the island? Dunno if this has already been mentioned.
Just gonna get this out there. I love this arc, but I actually hate the character of Caesar. I feel he's basically a second version of Moria, which would be fine if Moria didn't already exist.
Without going further into that, lemme just say it's my hope that Caesar goes down hard, gets captured, and somehow beaten to the point where his power no longer seems significant as they turn him into a hostage or whatever they do after catching him. I hope he's relegated to a Mr. 3 level of threat, that is, a guy who started out with the power to catch half the crew (sound familar?) but got his ass handed to him when the heat was on. I'm really looking forward to it.
On another note, another else seeing the Little Garden similarities? The villains are Caesar, a cool dude in shades, and a lady who's smug in spite of seemingly contributing little to the group. Not saying ideas are being reused, but the coincidences pile up if you think about it.
So Vivi is a large fat man with an afro and smokes cigars…
Some people...
You can't be serious. Not that person. The other one in the corner with the long hair and sword on their back. Geez. Not that I think that's Vivi but c'mon you didn't even know what silhouette I was talking about.
@Strelok:
Next chapter:
Zoro: "Oi, where did that Master go? … Why the heck is so much blood! Oi, are you still alive? Where did he go, what happened here?!"
Brownbeard: " Nothing happened!"Someone please draw this.
LOL
Enel's fruit was god-like he just ran into the worst possible circumstances for himself. Kizaru has yet to be hurt and he can take down skyscraper sized trees with a kick and he shoots weak beams through Hawkins and drops him. I think Ace's fruit got screwed over the most since everyone and their mother can do fire style attacks and apparently fire can't beat ice or smoke, and loses to magma
Fire can beat ice because Ace stopped that ice bird attack during the war.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Now that we know Kidd is involved, maybe he's the one that made it so Log Poses won't point to Punk Hazard? By changing the magnetic field of the island? Dunno if this has already been mentioned.
Kid is watching it on a different island just like the others that are watching it none of the people watching it are on punk hazard they're not helping caesar they're just watching what he is selling
@Galaxy:
This was probably before Robin had any idea what Haki was. Anybody with armanent could beat him with no trouble.
Whaaaa? Armament haki doesnt make you instantly able to beat down logias - and imo Enel's is one of the strongest there is. He's also damn quick, has strong observation haki and isn't stupid. You'd have to be so damn sharp with your armament haki (and probably be very powerful with it) to not get crushed in the first 5 seconds. Even though he did probably rely on it a bit too much, he wasn't completely dependant on it either. When he figured out that it wasn't working, he changed his tactics and almost beat Luffy (Remember that Luffy was in a better situation than anybody with haki would be in for that battle, seeing as he was completely immune and didnt have to worry about protecting himself with it). After locking Luffy's hand in that gold ball, he could have just killed him with a trident or something, and may well have done if he didnt think tossing him off the ark was a crueler death sentence.
So for you to say that anybody haki'd up could beat him with no trouble is demonstratively a bit silly :)
@Law:
Kid is watching it on a different island just like the others that are watching it none of the people watching it are on punk hazard they're not helping caesar they're just watching what he is selling
Well whatever they did to keep the log pose from pointing at PH happened long before the phone call in this chapter, CC could have made an agreement with Kidd earlier. Obviously they had some sort of interaction before this.
Why do people think Kidd had anything to do with the no magnetic field at Punk Hazard? Wouldn't be a bit tooo much power?
Seriously, has it been said that PH ever had one to begin with? If so, what issue?
I get shivers of dread when I read people start guess "PH doesn't have a Magnetic field becasue this event/that person" because I know, j_ust know,_ that people think that Kidd/some event is for every island that has no magnetic field!
Has people forgotten that some islands in the New World just do not have a magnetic field? That is true, the Minister told Nami as they were leaving.
If there is an actual comment or hint to Punk Hazard did have a field and lost it, then then its more likely due to CC's experiments.
Do you mean hurt as in injured (Kizaru), or hurt as in drawing blood? Because he drew blood on Sabaody from Rayleigh's sword cutting his cheek.
And I've always been under the impression that since it's in the One Piece world, the elements don't have to be the same (or as powerful) as our world. Our world isn't the Grand Line, I don't see why the elements in One Piece have to be the same power as ours. OR, and we might get this explanation from Vegapunk, maybe you can never truly become an element, a Logia Devil Fruit just gives you the closest imitation of that element.
Logias>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The elements on our planet.
Why do people think Kidd had anything to do with the no magnetic field at Punk Hazard? Wouldn't be a bit tooo much power?
Seriously, has it been said that PH ever had one to begin with? If so, what issue?I get shivers of dread when I read people start guess "PH doesn't have a Magnetic field becasue this event/that person" because I know,just know, that people think that Kidd/some event is for every island that has no magnetic field!
Has people forgotten that some islands in the New World just do not have a magnetic field? That is true, the Minister told Nami as they were leaving.
If there is an actual comment or hint to Punk Hazard did have a field and lost it, then then its more likely due to CC's experiments.
Wow, shivers of dread? That's pretty serious. You might want to calm yourself.
I do remember a specific line in one of the chapters that CC or someone else said that they went through a lot of trouble to make it so that PH wouldn't be picked up by a log. I think it was said in response to the news that G5/the Strawhats were on the island. I can't remember the exact chapter.
I really don't think it's farfetched, given Kidd's abilities and his involvement with CC. It would also make a lot of sense to hide PH from logs because of CC's secret experiments, especially if Kidd has something to gain from it.
@Galaxy:
Enel depended on his logia abilities too much. He would be dominated in the New World.
Well, Oda stated that if Enel was a pirate in the Blue Seas he would have a bounty of 500m,
Considering that Ace also has a bounty 500m i don't think Enel would be dominated,Im not saying they are equal in strength or anything
But if someone has a bounty equal to that of a 2nd Division Commander of Whitebeard i don't think they would be dominated
I don't know how specific Oda is with numbers, especially when translated to English, but IIRC the quote was that Enel's bounty would be "up to" 500 million. Big difference.
Enel had haki; enel had a great logia. Therefore, he'd be at least somewhat competitive in the New World, especially with a spacey army.
According to Oda: Enel had a comparable bounty to one of Whitebeard's commanders, ~~but he also stated that Lucci could somehow defeat Enel.
Lucci didn't have haki as far as we know, meaning Enel isn't as unstoppable as he should be.~~ my mistake, this is a mistranslation.
My masterpiece:
!
Someone draw it better!
@Law:
Fire can beat ice because Ace stopped that ice bird attack during the war.
Remember they canceled out. If Ace had won he'd have hit Aokiji.
Do you mean hurt as in injured (Kizaru), or hurt as in drawing blood? Because he drew blood on Sabaody from Rayleigh's sword cutting his cheek. And I've always been under the impression that since it's in the One Piece world, the elements don't have to be the same (or as powerful) as our world. Our world isn't the Grand Line, I don't see why the elements in One Piece have to be the same power as ours. OR, and we might get this explanation from Vegapunk, maybe you can never truly become an element, a Logia Devil Fruit just gives you the closest imitation of that element.
I always forget about that with Kizaru but his power seems to fit his element. As for elements not being as strong in the OP world as in reality I think that is the case and then there is the other case like rubber destroying buildings and shattering concrete. I'm not trying to compare the elements or the realities, I was just pointing out that I don't think Oda has nerfed that many abilities except maybe fire IMO.
I wonder if the 'spectators' will get to see the 'uninvited guests'?
Wonder how they'd react to seeing who they were exactly?
I wanna knooooooow.
i wonder if nami and sanji will have to go to the bathroom in each other's bodies - they may both get unexpected surprises.
they have to sometime!
According to Oda: Enel had a comparable bounty to one of Whitebeard's commanders, but he also stated that Lucci could somehow defeat Enel.
Lucci didn't have haki as far as we know, meaning Enel isn't as unstoppable as he should be.
Source? because Oda's never stated anything like that. He did say that Enel's bounty would be 500 million, BUT he didn't say the other part ("comparable bounty to one of Whitebeard's commanders".
@Galaxy:
This was probably before Robin had any idea what Haki was. Anybody with armanent could beat him with no trouble.
Enel being trashed in the NW? No way.
Ace showed no signs of armor haki and he still managed to become the second commander of the most powerful pirate crew pre TS. All he ever did was using his dangerous fire logia abilities. Hell, the Mera Mera No Mi allowed him to block attacks from an Admiral.
Now look at Enel. Perfect super long-range observation haki and a Devil fruit that is on par (or arguably better) than Ace's. Both are destructive, but the Goru Goru no Mi allows him to do much more:
His only weakness was this one rubber man. Even if people in the NW can hit him, it dosn't mean that they won't get instantly electrocuted by his powers.
Enel would be close to a Yonkou, now that he learned that he isn't invincible.
Edit:
As a reminder what happens when he lifts his finger.
!
Except we all saw in the Skypea arc that it is fairly easy to survive Enels lightning strikes. But if we ignore that and imagine all of his blasts are like the first time we saw it then sure, he would be pretty Ace-like.
Enel being trashed in the NW? No way.
Ace showed no signs of armor haki and he still managed to become the second commander of the most powerful pirate crew pre TS. All he ever did was using his dangerous fire logia abilities. Hell, the Mera Mera No Mi allowed him to block attacks from an Admiral.
Now look at Enel. Perfect super long-range observation haki and a Devil fruit that is on par (or arguably better) than Ace's. Both are destructive, but the Goru Goru no Mi allows him to do much more:
- Perfect defense / retreat by merging with his surroundings
- Super Observation
- Teleporting / lightning speed
His only weakness was this one rubber man. Even if people in the NW can hit him, it dosn't mean that they won't get instantly electrocuted by his powers.
Enel would be close to a Yonkou, now that he learned that he isn't invincible.
Edit:
As a reminder what happens when he lifts his finger.
Enel's lightning speed would be useless against COO, and COA can easily be used to protect oneself against Enel's attacks and hit Enel's lightning body. Suddenly, defeating Enel doesn't sound that hard, though he still has his COO to worry about. No way he would be almost Yonkou level.
Also, while there's no proof that Ace had COO or COA, there's no proof that he hadn't them either. Ace was knowledgeable enough to know what COC was, so he most likely knew about COO and COA. He could have learned how to use Haki through Marco, Jozu, Vista or even Whitebeard himself.
We know that if ENel had been known to the WG he would have had a bounty of 500 million. Theres no way he'd be useless in the new world when we consider that he had the strength to gain that type of bounty. And don't forget Enel is an extremely skilled CoO user himself
Kinemon cut through both fire and air a couple of chapters ago, and now it's brought up how fire can't hurt CC because he suffocates it. It's very conveniently related. I think Kinemon will end this arc in the spotlight. And we don't even know all about his powers yet.
Despite (or maybe because) of the lack imagination some people on the forums both tend to come up with harebrained theories and constantnly bitch about trivial stuff.
Goes something like this:
*New character is introduced in a benign manner.
- Wow, Oda hit a new low.
- Design is terrible.
- This guy sucks, he should've looked more like *insert established character here.
- 5 chapter later, the new character is shown doing something badass
- OMG *new character for nakama!
- Dude's beast!!
- Holy poop that guys is awesome!
It's as if after 15 years going people STILL haven't figured out that it makes no difference what a character looks like, as long as they are doing something cool.
Chameleone says hi.
Enel's lightning speed would be useless against COO, and COA can easily be used to protect oneself against Enel's attacks and hit Enel's lightning body. Suddenly, defeating Enel doesn't sound that hard, though he still has his COO to worry about. No way he would be almost Yonkou level.
Also, while there's no proof that Ace had COO or COA, there's no proof that he hadn't them either. Ace was knowledgeable enough to know what COC was, so he most likely knew about COO and COA. He could have learned how to use Haki through Marco, Jozu, Vista or even Whitebeard himself.
The argument is that Ace and Enel have a lot in common. Both relied too much on their godlike destructive Logia's, and neither of them showed signs of having COA. Enel could have it, Ace could have it. However, Ace didn't use it against Akainu or Blackbeard, which leads me to believe that he was no super skilled user. And one needs to be in order to block attacks of that scale (hell, Luffy can't even protect himself from a bite from Hody - and he isn't a rookie anymore).
Still, Ace managed to become the second in command on WB's crew. One step below Marco, who the government believed to be able to take down Blackbeard. I don't say Enel is as powerful as a Yonkou, but close. And the line "he would get crushed in the NW" makes no sense to me, at all.
Enel's lightning speed would be useless against COO, and COA can easily be used to protect oneself against Enel's attacks
I think that's incorrect, on two counts. Speed beats observation Haki, because it doesn't matter if you can predict the moves when you aren't fast enough to keep up with them physically.
Boa sisters vs Luffy comes to mind.
As far haki protecting from lightning I don't see that happening, haki protects from physical attacks. I doubt it would protect the user from electricity any more than it would protect them from Caesar's ability to remove air or Magellan's poison.
I think that's incorrect, on two counts. Speed beats observation Haki, because it doesn't matter if you can predict the moves when you aren't fast enough to keep up with them physically.
Boa sisters vs Luffy comes to mind.
As far haki protecting from lightning I don't see that happening, haki protects from physical attacks. I doubt it would protect the user from electricity any more than it would protect them from Caesar's ability to remove air or Magellan's poison.
The Admirals used it to stop one of Whitebeard's shockwaves.
!
The Admirals used it to stop one of Whitebeard's shockwaves.
Hmm, perhaps haki can be used to protect from it, as long as you know it's coming and what you are protecting from.
Physics is not One Piece's most consistent trait, especially when it comes to Luffy's physics. Heck, I've given up trying to apply logic to it after Luffy went gear three underwater, I guess all that air came from hammerspace.
You have to look at more then just fighting. Enel also has the advantage that he can instantly destroy any ship on the sea. Thats a big advantage agains other piratecrews.
ANd yes, enel is TOP-TIER even in the new world. It doesnt matter if other people can hit him cause of CoA. Croc is still called a heavy hitter and he is in every area weaker then enel(exept brainpower).
And no you cant protect agains Enels lightning. Did we ever see someone protect himself from logiaattacks? Only 3 Admirals together stopped the shockwave but nobody else did ever show any sign of that skill. If you could protect from Lightning that you could protect from every attack there is…
Like Jabra said. Enel has to much of an advantage agains others.
Longrange CoO
Longrange Attacks
Super-speed.
One of the most destructive Abilities up to now. Actually its the most destructive Ability i can think of.
Potential to get even stronger. He can easily rebuild Maxim and he has his own Ancient Weapon.
He can Levitate(i think?)
Lightning can be used in other ways like Enel showed with his Golmelting skill.
He has HIGH Stamina despite having a Logia and never been Hit in his Life.
He just has 1 Weakness. Thats his relativly weak Hand to Hand combat compared to other fighters but that is overshowed by the sheer power of his Logia.
God damn it Oda, why did you have to make me give the tiniest of shits about a joke character like Brown Beard?
That is so not cool!
The argument is that Ace and Enel have a lot in common. Both relied too much on their godlike destructive Logia's, and neither of them showed signs of having COA. Enel could have it, Ace could have it. However, Ace didn't use it against Akainu or Blackbeard, which leads me to believe that he was no super skilled user. And one needs to be in order to block attacks of that scale (hell, Luffy can't even protect himself from a bite from Hody - and he isn't a rookie anymore).
Still, Ace managed to become the second in command on WB's crew. One step below Marco, who the government believed to be able to take down Blackbeard. I don't say Enel is as powerful as a Yonkou, but close. And the line "he would get crushed in the NW" makes no sense to me, at all.
Wait…now don't ask me for the source, but I could have sworn it was mentioned at some point that Ace did have haki. King's Haki I think, which would imply CoA and COO as well.
Edit: Hey, found it! In chapter 587 Ace knocks out a bunch of guys with what must be King's haki. So if you're going to talk power levels, please keep that skill in mind.
Two days in and we're already discussing Enel power levels.
I swear, anytime Oda goes on a break, AP goes on tangents even faster than usual.