Huh? You guys are pissed off at us for purging mangastream? Watch some Lagrange!
WHY NOT HAVE A GO AT WINNING ONE OF OUR FABULOUS CHIBI NARUTO CCGS! ONLY 5 IN EXISTENCE
WOW!
oh by the way were taking way your main source for scanlations
Huh? You guys are pissed off at us for purging mangastream? Watch some Lagrange!
WHY NOT HAVE A GO AT WINNING ONE OF OUR FABULOUS CHIBI NARUTO CCGS! ONLY 5 IN EXISTENCE
WOW!
oh by the way were taking way your main source for scanlations
Yeah, a couple of times.
One of the times was on the v57(?) Impel Down/Paramount War cover fiasco. Kept asking them if they were going to change it and what was going to happen etc and they kept giving me PR nonsense and ignoring the points I was trying to make. It was a while back now and i can't really remember how the whole thing went but I do remember that it left me with a particularly sour taste on their part.
Even with the Facebook thing. Isn't that meant to be a means to communicate with fans easier? People have been messaging them all day and I could be wrong but I haven't seen a response from them. Sure theres a lot of nonsense posts but theres some fair points been brought up to. Have they addressed anything? No, BUT YOU CAN WATCH LAGRANGE EPISODE 6 ON VIZMEDIA.
WELL, sure sounds like the response I've got for my campaign so far.
I have gotten nothing but "We will not be doing this at this time".
That's all I've gotten for my SJA UK campaign and It's quite sad to be honest.
! @GearSecond:
! > While there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to support legal One Piece (and I know for years, back when Viz was just starting out and 4Kids was responsible for the dub, we talked endlessly about being willing to support legal, high quality One Piece translations) I can't help but feel like we're losing our backbone as a community over this. Many scanlations and fansubs are the sign of a healthy community. I'm glad that KF has stuck around and Funimation has been very nice about having competition when it comes to subbing. As a result, I'm far more willing to buy their dub releases. Why? Because they respect our community, they don't issue takedowns, and they are putting out a product that I literally can't get anywhere else: a show with full English voice acting. Viz is a different matter: they don't want competition and their competition is providing the same basic product they are. The big difference is that Viz can bind volumes for traditional reading. As a community, we shouldn't be supporting Viz. If they can truly put out a better product they shouldn't need C&D orders to get sales via a monopoly. It's also time we as a society rethink the application of capitalism to ideas, but I digress; that is a topic for another day.There's a distinct lack of scanlation and subbing groups compared to a few years ago. Traditionally there've been a handful of subbers/scanlators who rushed out the newest episodes, perhaps one or two that were a couple weeks behind but aimed for a good mix of speed and quality, and at least one major translator that was a couple years behind but aimed for the highest quality. One Piece's foreign community has been lucky to have this so far. It's been a real blessing to have an abundance of choice ranging from speed to quality. But now there's no major English HQ translators. Nor any English scanlators best I can tell. NULL was way behind and I could accept being 2-3 years behind waiting for their release, but now they've quit. There's still quite a few people subbing the anime, though they're all speed subs and the only real alternative is KF. For perspective, KF is on Enies Lobby and when I first joined these forums the Manga was in the same place.
This concerns me. It seems like the translators are dying out. The old-school translators have broken up for a myriad of reasons or they've gotten tired of all the work. They've been generous thus far; many of them have day jobs and do translations in their spare time. I can hardly blame them for shutting down a free service. But at the end of the day, they represent the community's health. In a way, we're stagnating. The posts on this site are all "General Discussion Thread, Part X" and there's few original threads discussing the series here. It wasn't always that way. Now all posts are categorized. Stuff like takedowns should have their own post, not be shoved at the backend of a Viz General Discussion. But more on point, we're losing scanlators and subbers and that's a concern. As fans of the manga, we're dead in the water without NULL and even though I hated their watermarks Binktopia/Mangastream were the only ones releasing in English that I can find. Our "where to find OP manga" thread is 2+ years old and there's been few updates. The scanlation section of the site may as well be for Italian releases only (props to them for keeping up releases, though) and this isn't a good position to be in.
However, the first action I'd recommend taking is to choose to not support Viz if they won't support the community. I have no doubt that they genuinely believe legal manga is the best thing for their communities. But it's really only what's best for them. It's neither what's best for the fans, the health of their community, nor the original author of the series. And as such, we shouldn't support their online releases at cost. Their translations are somewhat shoddy, the quality of image is only high because they have access to the original prints, and so long as the translation is decent and the images are high-res I think the community can put out a superior product. Supporting Viz after they issue takedowns sends them the message that hurting the community is profitable and thus best for them. That's not right. We as a community need to demand/provide downloaded, non-watermarked, HQ English scans. I for one won't give Viz any money unless I can have decent scans on my hard-drive. I won't buy any volumes of their manga that I don't have a satisfactory copy of on my computer and neither should anyone else. Instead, support Funimation. They care about the community. They let fansubs live on without hassling them. And in the end it's for the best of both the community and the series. Free, high quality translations has gained One Piece and other series more fans than any other distribution method. I've dumped hundreds into imported merchandise since getting into this series. And the last thing I want to see is the English-speaking community snuffed out because Viz bullied us into buying their sub-par product and shutting down any competition.
You sound like a spoiled child. "Its wrong because I say so and I want it!"
I mean how dare those licensed legal retailers sell what you can steal for free!?
Can we talk about Mangastream's stupidity with this whole situation for a moment.
Excuse me while I pull an analogy out of my ass. Let's say you smoked weed and you really appreciated the product your local drug dealer provided. Then that same dealer was brazen enough to take out advertisements for his product, created a Facebook fan page liked by about 450,000 people and a twitter account with thousands of followers. Wouldn't you just shake your head at his stupidity once he was busted? It's one thing to break the law for others' benefit, but to do it so brazenly was just stupid. I'm not sure what they or the fans were expecting.
So I'm sorry, I know it's been asked, but what exactly are we supposed to do at this point? In order to read the chapters within the first few days they come out, I mean?
There is no way I'm paying Viz to not only own a chapter twice (even three times,) but to pay them for a two week old chapter. I buy the volumes, I always have, and I've always supported Viz. More than anyone else I know, in fact. I hate digital content, and I don't want to have to pay for digital content. The reason I read the new chapters online is because I obviously can't wait for the volumes (though, I again, own all of them.) Not only that, because, again, I'm crazy, I buy Weekly Shonen Jump on occasion just to look through it even though I can't read it (some stores in NYC get it fairly quick.)
Viz pisses me off at points- it cancels some of my favorite series cough Gintama and doesn't even actually have the balls to state as to why they're canceling it, in fact, they don't mention anything at all and just hope people will forget and stop badgering them. I don't have a beef about the translations like other people seem to have, but a lot about them makes me angry. Yet, I still, through all this, support them.
But I just draw the line here… I want my chapters on time- half the fun of it is reading that chapter within the same few days that other people are reading it, a feeling of connectedness within the fanbase, it's just something I like and have always appreciated about One Piece (the only series I actually read new chapters of online instead of waiting.)
I just hope there are others out there that will translate the chapters and still release them on Wednesdays. If anyone has any heads up on this, I'd really appreciated it. End rant
I think as long as the scans are leaked someone will translate them and put them online. I don't think there is anything to worry about there. I'm sure One Piece will be available online next week as it always is and people will forget this ever happened.
Viz pisses me off at points- it cancels some of my favorite series cough Gintama and doesn't even actually have the balls to state as to why they're canceling it, in fact, they don't mention anything at all and just hope people will forget and stop badgering them. I don't have a beef about the translations like other people seem to have, but a lot about them makes me angry. Yet, I still, through all this, support them.
How often do you hear of an entertainment company making a public statement about the cancellation of one of their properties? Barely ever, it's a bad business move. It's obvious why it got cancelled anyway (low sales, the downsizing of VIZ and the American manga industry as a whole).
There is no way I'm paying Viz to not only own a chapter twice (even three times,) but to pay them for a two week old chapter. I buy the volumes, I always have, and I've always supported Viz. More than anyone else I know, in fact. I hate digital content, and I don't want to have to pay for digital content. The reason I read the new chapters online is because I obviously can't wait for the volumes (though, I again, own all of them.) Not only that, because, again, I'm crazy, I buy Weekly Shonen Jump on occasion just to look through it even though I can't read it (some stores in NYC get it fairly quick.)
Viz pisses me off at points- it cancels some of my favorite series cough Gintama and doesn't even actually have the balls to state as to why they're canceling it, in fact, they don't mention anything at all and just hope people will forget and stop badgering them. I don't have a beef about the translations like other people seem to have, but a lot about them makes me angry. Yet, I still, through all this, support them.
But I just draw the line here… I want my chapters on time- half the fun of it is reading that chapter within the same few days that other people are reading it, a feeling of connectedness within the fanbase, it's just something I like and have always appreciated about One Piece (the only series I actually read new chapters of online instead of waiting.)
It's fine you want to stick to the volumes and avoid the hassle of Alpha, but then don't complain about wanting to read the new chapters, on time (early, even), all while not paying for it simply because it's digital. The simple fact is that a majority of people pay for much of their digital content: music, movies, books and so forth. If you want to protest, draw the line at buying the physical books and avoid chapters online altogether, both from VIZ and from scanlators, because to support the latter above the former is a pure double standard.
It's fine you want to stick to the volumes and avoid the hassle of Alpha, but then don't complain about wanting to read the new chapters, on time (early, even), all while not paying for it simply because it's digital. The simple fact is that a majority of people pay for much of their digital content: music, movies, books and so forth. If you want to protest, draw the line at buying the physical books and avoid chapters online altogether, both from VIZ and from scanlators, because to support the latter above the former is a pure double standard.
I was writing that fast out of anger, I (guess) what I mean is I won't pay for digital content that comes out that late. If Viz gets their act together and releases the chapters two days after the release, I'll gladly pay for them.
However, the first action I'd recommend taking is to choose to not support Viz if they won't support the community. I have no doubt that they genuinely believe legal manga is the best thing for their communities. But it's really only what's best for them. It's neither what's best for the fans, the health of their community, nor the original author of the series. And as such, we shouldn't support their online releases at cost. .
Good God man! Do you realize what you are saying?!
I would love to know how old everyone is who agrees with statements like these. I just want to gauge maturity levels, also finding out what these people do for a living would be nice. Because people like you GearSecond are no contributing zeros and just don't understand how the real world works.
I'm not saying buy VIZ or even like VIZ, i'm just saying those who truly believe in the above statement are as dumb as a sack of of door knobs.
I'd like to hear what the JUMP authors would have to say about this.
I feel like it would be similar to how musicians act to piracy: the unknown one would encourage looking up the online material in hopes of gaining new fans while the one who are already well of would discourage it. Though I know it is slightly different in this case as there are fewer ways to support mangaka than there are musicians.
I'd like to hear what the JUMP authors would have to say about this.
I really don't think they would give it much thought. The bottom line for them is their series (The Big 3 at least) sell insanely well in Japan and that's the market they really care about. I live in Japan so I have an idea of how insular this society can be. I doubt they spend much time worrying about how well they are doing in the international market.
However, the first action I'd recommend taking is to choose to not support Viz if they won't support the community. I have no doubt that they genuinely believe legal manga is the best thing for their communities. But it's really only what's best for them. It's neither what's best for the fans, the health of their community, nor the original author of the series. And as such, we shouldn't support their online releases at cost.
I agree with this quote. This doesn't help end online piracy, it will only ignite more online scanlations. Mangastream is just the many sites that has served its purpose, just as Onemanga was taken down a few years back. Most of us will continue on with our lives and move on to another, while the hatred of viz media grows deeper.
wow….that doesn't make sense at all.
Viz listened to fan request and released 33 volumes of One Piece in a single year. I don't think it was smart to take down mangastream, but to say we shouldn't support the volume release over this is just plain ridiculous.
I just don't see the logic here...Viz did something stupid, so we'll stick it to them by not giving Oda a dime for all his hard work and just read for free entirely :D...wait how does that get back at Viz? All that does is hurt the sales of One Piece in the US. US Volumes are being released at an increased rate and digital SJA is 2 weeks behind. They're certainly trying to get material out there to the fans. To say they're trying to harm the community by attacking mangastream is a big jumpin logic.
Scans will always have their place. SJA will never win in terms of speed. I will always read scans. That is not to say that I wouldn't take the opportunity to re-read in SJA if I subscribed.
I was writing that fast out of anger, I (guess) what I mean is I won't pay for digital content that comes out that late. If Viz gets their act together and releases the chapters two days after the release, I'll gladly pay for them.
So until then, don't use the scanlations as a justified alternative, that's all I'm saying.
Personally, I will continue buying the volumes and reading scans. I support the manga in print….and really don't see any issue with reading online scans from Mangastream etc. I have bought hundreds of volumes of manga from Viz. I would never have been as interested if I didn't read scans...so I just don't have a moral dilemma in this regard. I feel that buying print volumes is enough to show support for Viz and the mangaka.
Er, really, all this nasty business has done is encourage me to buy the volumes more often.
I just don't like reading things online, is all, and I'm paranoid about paying for digital copies of things.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
wow….that doesn't make sense at all.
Viz listened to fan request and released 33 volumes of One Piece in a single year. I don't think it was smart to take down mangastream, but to say we shouldn't support the volume release over this is just plain ridiculous.
I just don't see the logic here...Viz did something stupid, so we'll stick it to them by not giving Oda a dime for all his hard work and just read for free entirely :D...wait how does that get back at Viz? All that does is hurt the sales of One Piece in the US. US Volumes are being released at an increased rate and digital SJA is 2 weeks behind. They're certainly trying to get material out there to the fans. To say they're trying to harm the community by attacking mangastream is a big jumpin logic.
Scans will always have their place. SJA will never win in terms of speed. I will always read scans. That is not to say that I wouldn't take the opportunity to re-read in SJA if I subscribed.
I highly doubt viz media's income even comes close in denting oda's income nor does it ever reach him (Who knows) . I've said this elsewhere and I'll reinstate it here again, Viz Media business tactics are going against the current. Look at Funamtion, they've ignored fandubs and release scheduled based episode which cost millions of dollars to animate compared to a measly 20 page manga each week. Funanimation offers free streaming on onepieceoffcial.com and also allows them to promote their dvds/bluray volumes.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Personally, I will continue buying the volumes and reading scans. I support the manga in print….and really don't see any issue with reading online scans from Mangastream etc. I have bought hundreds of volumes of manga from Viz. I would never have been as interested if I didn't read scans...so I just don't have a moral dilemma in this regard. I feel that buying print volumes is enough to show support for Viz and the mangaka.
This pretty much the same exact way I think/feel. I've bought so much from them, and supported them to heck, but I feel like they made a silly mistake here.
The last thing I have to say about this topic… we, as fans, NEED to and beyond should support the series and artists we love. I think there are a lot of people out there using this dilemma as a further excuse to pirate and to continue to not pay for manga- its something extremely idiotic that really, really isn't helping. We're a dying industry already, everything has gone so downhill since 2008, and it doesn't seem to be getting better any time soon (though I'll pin that one on the continuing rise of piracy as well.)
I guess I just want to slap people who try to justify piracy.
Piracy IS a two-way street in the long run though, so the key thing is balance.
piracy can be good for spreading awareness (most who bought the colorwalks and the speed up volumes were likely scan readers),
but it's just a case of drawing a line somewhere.
Just add my thoughts on this, As someone from the UK i do feel we get left out.
We get the the volumes like the US and Canada and even has the UK price on the back cover. It would be fine if Viz came out and said there just testing the waters 1st before a UK release but no information at all (unless there has been?) Surely they want our money aswell? Its just like the Simulcast for the anime. Because im in the UK i can't watch it legally so i'm left doing it the illegal way. I myself have no guilt in downloading/streaming eps and reading the manga online because i always buy the dvds and manga on release and would happily jump to the legal option if given the chance. I dont see any UK company paying to stream One Piece and Funimation doesn't deal with the UK so oh well.
In an ideal world all the manga companys would come together to make manga digital and translate them into all the common languages people would read in. Subscribe for access to the site for free viewing of manga titiles with advertisements and new chapters a week after release or for a small charge get a year pass for a series of your choice to get chapters on release day. Would also sell digital volumes for there app/e books. If that were to happen i would be happy all companys would be invested in this so no series would be stopped like gintama due to lack of sales or other problems. A man can dream.
@D'espairs:
Because im in the UK i can't watch it legally so i'm left doing it the illegal way. I myself have no guilt in downloading/streaming eps and reading the manga online because i always buy the dvds and manga on release and would happily jump to the legal option if given the chance. I dont see any UK company paying to stream One Piece and Funimation doesn't deal with the UK so oh well.
totally. i'm from the uk too, and this is exactly how i feel.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Personally, I will continue buying the volumes and reading scans. I support the manga in print….and really don't see any issue with reading online scans from Mangastream etc. I have bought hundreds of volumes of manga from Viz. I would never have been as interested if I didn't read scans...so I just don't have a moral dilemma in this regard. I feel that buying print volumes is enough to show support for Viz and the mangaka.
With you on this one.
I agree people shouldn't even start trying to justify piracy, that's just retarded. However I admit to it for convenience reasons - not justifying, and all of you people shouting it's bad and we harm the industry and are scum in reading scanlations are hypocrites and can go have intercourse with yourself.
Alpha is not an option since I'm in the UK. Plus, I prefer hare copies, so I purchase the volumes. Don't see anything wrong with that.
@MDL:
totally. i'm from the uk too, and this is exactly how i feel.
Where as i know i buy the releases its the people that dont are the problem.
@D'espairs:
Where as i know i buy the releases its the people that dont are the problem.
exactly.
all we can do is hope that a high enough percentage of online readers actually purchase the product and support the series when it comes around.
I love how the bottom line is always, that Viz is too late or not available in countries outside the US/canada. But all of you said, that you purchased some volumes if they got published and with this you are pretty alone. For the majority it simply boils down to: "Why should I pay for something, when I also can get it for free?"
Even if Alpha would be available in all countries around the world, would have amazing quality and a superb translation, would be dirt cheap and appearing at the same time as the (illegal) online scanlations or even some hours earlier. I'm still pretty sure, that the overwhelming majority (and I think somewhere along the lines of 95% or more) would go for the free stuff.
As long as there will be sites, where you can read mangas without inconveniences for free, noone really would be tempered to buy staff. Yes, most know that they dont have any right to complain, when Viz shuts down a scanlation project; they know, that they are doing something illegal and thats not their human right to get stuff for free; they know, that they are not supporting the author with this; but nontheless they dont feel any guilt doing it (and moreso when its not their top favourite series, they are reading), but thats how the world is.
Its kind of like the famous "You wouldnt downlike a car" spot.
I love how the bottom line is always, that Viz is too late or not available in countries outside the US/canada. But all of you said, that you purchased some volumes if they got published and with this you are pretty alone. For the majority it simply boils down to: "Why should I pay for something, when I also can get it for free?"
Even if Alpha would be available in all countries around the world, would have amazing quality and a superb translation, would be dirt cheap and appearing at the same time as the (illegal) online scanlations or even some hours earlier. I'm still pretty sure, that the overwhelming majority (and I think somewhere along the lines of 95% or more) would go for the free stuff.
As long as there will be sites, where you can read mangas without inconveniences for free, noone really would be tempered to buy staff. Yes, most know that they dont have any right to complain, when Viz shuts down a scanlation project; they know, that they are doing something illegal and thats not their human right to get stuff for free; they know, that they are not supporting the author with this; but nontheless they dont feel any guilt doing it (and moreso when its not their top favourite series, they are reading), but thats how the world is.
Its kind of like the famous "You wouldnt downlike a car" spot.
ehrm i disagree actually.. because i not only read online but i also buy volumes (from viz!!) so i pay for my manga!! probably the only reason i read online on mangastream is because viz doesn't offer me the quality (time wise, money wise, etc) that mangastream does offer. i can't buy SJA (live in europe) so mangastream was the only option and they took it away ='[
(boils down to: if i could pay i would but they won't let me buy GOOD service)
Uhhh…why is scanlation suddenly news again? Because Viz sent a cease and desist to a website openly advertising and "sharing" a licensed product? One Piece has been scanlated almost since day 1, and the cease and disists from the copyright holders are both lawful and an act of common sense. Besides, some other group is going to pick up where mangastream left off (probably Binktopia operating outside of Mangastream), so no sweat to those following the early-bird leak of the new chapters.
Mangastream set itself up because it appeared to be profiting off of these series, but most of these scanlation teams don't make a dime off of the product. So who else outside of Viz cares if you're reading scanlations and still buying the new volumes? There's always going to be leeches, the guys who would read the manga or books at the local bookstore and put them back onto the shelf. No amount of civics lectures are going to change that.
There seems to generally be two types of people:
Those who think that somehow viewing online manga is going to put a dent in an established mangaka's paycheck(it won't) and that buying the volumes matter(your more helping your local bookstore)
And the people who consider this the apocalypse and that they have to make due with Viz for the rest of their lives(seems there's a majority who don't know any manga reading sites outside mangastream)
I love how the bottom line is always, that Viz is too late or not available in countries outside the US/canada. But all of you said, that you purchased some volumes if they got published and with this you are pretty alone. For the majority it simply boils down to: "Why should I pay for something, when I also can get it for free?"
This is so true. I have many friends that like anime and manga in real life and 95% of them use MangaStream to get their manga fix. I told them that they should buy volume releases too, and despite how they invest so much time into reading manga illegally online, they say they'd rather not buy something when it's already available for free. They say it's because they'd rather use their money on something else. Well, when it all comes down to it, no matter how harsh it may sound… If you can't pay to for it, you shouldn't be reading it at all.
Viz is fighting an uphill battle with this. The only true way to succeed in this online manga business is to compete or outdo your competitors. But SJA will never be faster then the illegal scans, even if they somehow release the same day as JUMP does in Japan. And even more importantly they are asking you to pay and the illegal sites are not. Its not right or fair and I know there are still a lot of people that will support the official release regardless but the majority will not. How is Viz supposed to compete with a faster, free service? Getting rid of Mangastream won't do anything, we've been through this before with Onemanga. I appreciate the effort Viz is giving but unfortunately I think they are already doomed to fail.
@Mikey:
This is so true. I have many friends that like anime and manga in real life and 95% of them use MangaStream to get their manga fix. I told them that they should buy volume releases too, and despite how they invest so much time into reading manga illegally online, they say they'd rather not buy something when it's already available for free. They say it's because they'd rather use their money on something else. Well, when it all comes down to it, no matter how harsh it may sound… If you can't pay to for it, you shouldn't be reading it at all.
What about certain countries that doesn't have it (One Piece)?
And what about those who can't buy all of the volumes?
What about certain countries that doesn't have it (One Piece)?
And what about those who can't buy all of the volumes?
Do you want me to list the hundreds of movies and video games and books and ect that I would love to read/watch/play that I haven't or didn't because I can't waste money on them all.
You want me to post to you topics on this forum that have tons of users showign what items they have bought and shipped to them from different countries. You want a link to the japanese amazon.com site. or the many other sites you can buy every volume out. Does amazon.us not ship to your country that you can't get one piece volumes TRANSLATED to where you live either?
Where do you people live that can't seem to get mail from other countries? Or is it all back to money, and thus back to my first point.
@Mikey:
This is so true. I have many friends that like anime and manga in real life and 95% of them use MangaStream to get their manga fix. I told them that they should buy volume releases too, and despite how they invest so much time into reading manga illegally online, they say they'd rather not buy something when it's already available for free. They say it's because they'd rather use their money on something else. Well, when it all comes down to it, no matter how harsh it may sound… If you can't pay to for it, you shouldn't be reading it at all.
What about certain countries that doesn't have it (One Piece)?
And what about those who can't buy all of the volumes?
indeed i live in Europe and here i can only buy the volumes to support Oda and as said before that doesn't really help.
i stick to my point i would love to pay for a decent quality online weekly fix but VIZ doesn't offer me, in this case they just cut me off =[
(yeah i know next thursday there will be a small scanilation company who has translated the series but still it sucks….)
Do you want me to list the hundreds of movies and video games and books and ect that I would love to read/watch/play that I haven't or didn't because I can't waste money on them all.
You want me to post to you topics on this forum that have tons of users showign what items they have bought and shipped to them from different countries. You want a link to the japanese amazon.com site. or the many other sites you can buy every volume out. Does amazon.us not ship to your country that you can't get one piece volumes TRANSLATED to where you live either?
Where do you people live that can't seem to get mail from other countries? Or is it all back to money, and thus back to my first point.
Shipping usually costs money. It may not be a big deal, but it's still there, and if you want to buy 20-30-40 volumes, it will matter.
Buying one or two volumes aren't that expensive, but One Piece for example already has 65 and it's not over yet.
Shipping usually costs money. It may not be a big deal, but it's still there, and if you want to buy 20-30-40 volumes, it will matter.
Buying one or two volumes aren't that expensive, but One Piece for example already has 65 and it's not over yet.
The stuff you want costs money, more at 10.
The stuff you want costs money, more at 10.
Sigh…
You don't understand my point. Okay, I'll stop now. Most of you seems to misunderstand me and for some reason, I'm not capable of explaining my thoughts better.
Sigh…
You don't understand my point. Okay, I'll stop now. Most of you seems to misunderstand me and for some reason, I'm not capable of explaining my thoughts better.
don't worry, i understood you.
Sigh…
You don't understand my point. Okay, I'll stop now. Most of you seems to misunderstand me and for some reason, I'm not capable of explaining my thoughts better.
It's Hinsher. If he jumps you, it's best you ignore him.
Or amuse yourself with the hilarity.
Music has found iTunes. Movies have found Netflix. Books have found iPads and Kindle. Manga will find some quick distribution way; hopefully one Viz can move quicker. A mangaka always works on the piece that is to be released in three or two weeks, meaning that Shuesha holds the chapters for the next two weeks. Viz could find a way to start translating that quicker, though that might be a hassle.
Sigh…
You don't understand my point. Okay, I'll stop now. Most of you seems to misunderstand me and for some reason, I'm not capable of explaining my thoughts better.
Shipping costs alot? ok. Buy in bulk, that should reduce shipping per volume. Is there no free shipping on orders certain price?
Oda talked about how this many volumes is not cheap. Thats same for anyone american, japanese, or some random guy in antarctica wanting his fix. Doesn't matter where you live buying 66+ volumes is expensive.
Also why are people pissed at Viz for America and Canada getting it. Start bitching at your local people to localize a manga reading thing. I'm pissed at many gaming companies for not localizing a game. I'm not pissed at the japanese cause they got the game. For example NOA is not on my good side in regards to some games, or Namco Bandai.
Also why are people pissed at Viz for America and Canada getting it. Start bitching at your local people to localize a manga reading thing. I'm pissed at many gaming companies for not localizing a game..
lol .
I like where this is going
I hope you're joking. Fansubs and scanlations are NOT the sign of a healthy community. It just means its fanbase is full of free-loaders. Also, FUNimation is a professional company and I'm sure as hell they aren't letting a group of college students with some time on their hands do their shitty subs soley for "competition." It costs well over $100,000 to dub a single episode and the anime industry is shit right now due to piracy. As for Viz, they have every right to "not want competition." They bought the license to One Piece and therefore can do what Shueisha allows them to do, and getting rid of scanlations is one of those things. They ARE trying to support the community and they have shown it in many ways: doing the speed-up, releasing Color Walks, trying to get the manga as close to the weekly serialization as possible, etc. Also, I'm aware Viz's translations aren't perfect, but scanlations are generally worse and usually a mixed bag, full of typos and mistranslations everywhere. If you understand Japanese enough to the point that you can tell which translations are good and bad, then why are you reading any English versions (whether it be Viz or scanlations) at all?
That's simply not how piracy works. Funimation has said before that they won't be shutting down fansubs because they recognize how important groups like KF are to the community. It's not about them letting there be competition, it's about letting someone else be left alone when it doesn't actually affect them. There's an abundance of studies which have demonstrated that decreasing piracy will not lead to an increase in sales. The anime translation industry is built upon fans who got interested via fansubs. There were bootleg subtitled VHS tapes being released in America long before we had a halfway decent translation industry. And they primarily came about to capitalize on that. The anime industry has never been strong or a big part of media because they're paying the same price as other studios to translate and produce and yet they have a smaller market. Piracy is not "lost sales". Of course Viz doesn't want the competition, but the idea simply being that in a traditional capitalistic system you sell licenses and retain the rights to intellectual property. But it's time we rethink that and move beyond that. Piracy has never been theft. You're not removing the property of someone else. You're simply making a copy. They bought the license but, guess what, people are capable of producing a quality translation in a timely manner and that technically creates a system of competition. As has been demonstrated, Netflix reduces piracy. And yet the big media corporations are using licensing to choke them for creating a legal and profitable business. It's about control, not providing a high quality product. In that regard, the fans have a duty to release their version of a product with regards to creating a decent product for the fandom. As far as translation quality, Viz will always be better than speed scans. They have payed translators whose job it is to translate and they release on a delay. The goal of places like MangaStream has always been a fast release. But groups like NULL have provided a quality translation and while they've always been behind they've focused on accuracy. And at the end of the day they were releasing high quality releases you could download and keep. Between the two of them, they produced two products both better than Viz but in different ways. I admit I'm not reading the Japanese version to assess accuracy; my grasp of the language isn't that good. However it's not that hard to check multiple releases from Stephen's to NULL's to speed scans and Viz to get a good idea of how accurate they all are in relation to each other. And that's what's important: their relative accuracy and quality. And at the end of the day, it's rather nice to read something in your native tongue. It's the one thing a dub can do that no fansub can; let you sit back and enjoy the art.
You sound like a spoiled child. "Its wrong because I say so and I want it!"
I mean how dare those licensed legal retailers sell what you can steal for free!?
And there lies the rub. Licenses are about as bad as software patents at this point. Yes, they paid for the legal distribution rights for a certain area. But we have the internet. We have the most powerful tool mankind has ever built. We need to stop thinking like licenses are the end-all-be-all solution to releases. And we can't think of piracy as lost sales. See, you've made it pretty clear you didn't understand a word I said. The entire point being that the legal releases are killing the fandom. It's not about getting stuff for free. It's about the fact that I'd rather pay NULL for releases than Viz, regardless of who purchases the license. It's about them providing something for the fans instead of for profit. It makes no sense to say anyone who supports piracy as a consumer tool is a "spoiled child". Because you're basically saying that whoever has the money to purchase a license has a right to nickel-and-dime the fans just because they bought the license. And sure, traditionally that's true. But now the internet has given consumers a tool to fight back and demand a quality service. Stop thinking like it's 1955 and start thinking about the potential here to provide a quality and yet profitable service for the fans.
I think as long as the scans are leaked someone will translate them and put them online. I don't think there is anything to worry about there. I'm sure One Piece will be available online next week as it always is and people will forget this ever happened.
Who is currently releasing HQ English scans within a week of JUMP's release?
Good God man! Do you realize what you are saying?!
I would love to know how old everyone is who agrees with statements like these. I just want to gauge maturity levels, also finding out what these people do for a living would be nice. Because people like you GearSecond are no contributing zeros and just don't understand how the real world works.
I'm not saying buy VIZ or even like VIZ, i'm just saying those who truly believe in the above statement are as dumb as a sack of of door knobs.
Again, statements about immaturity and being a "spoiled child". Please think for a second what the potential of the internet and groups that make releases for the betterment of the community can do. Stop and reconsider that "the real world" is bound by certain rules that the internet simply doesn't abide by. We're more than capable of having scanlators provide a quality product that can compete with Viz. We're more than capable of translating it ourselves. The internet has given consumers a great tool and we want to shackle it to the limitations of the old world.
Viz is fighting an uphill battle with this. The only true way to succeed in this online manga business is to compete or outdo your competitors. But SJA will never be faster then the illegal scans, even if they somehow release the same day as JUMP does in Japan. And even more importantly they are asking you to pay and the illegal sites are not. Its not right or fair and I know there are still a lot of people that will support the official release regardless but the majority will not. How is Viz supposed to compete with a faster, free service? Getting rid of Mangastream won't do anything, we've been through this before with Onemanga. I appreciate the effort Viz is giving but unfortunately I think they are already doomed to fail.
I completely agree with the first point. When scanlators can get better stuff out faster, you simply aren't competitive. And on to the second point, one does that by using that one thing that scanlators do not have: money. Viz isn't a charity. They have a contract which undoubtedly involves more money flowing into Oda's general direction. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that hey, maybe they can get the high quality originals from Oda directly, as obviously they want to make more money, and that magic lies in beating the scanlators. (Obviously a pipe-dream, as I end up concluding below…)
Then they translate, and generally beat the scanlators on speed. Sure, there may be some redrawing involved, but compared to a dude scanning pages, fixing up the angle, cleaning it to get rid of the grain, and all the stuff inbetween... there's simply no contest. Throw in that for the longest time, the translations have been rather mediocre... well, when stuff is free, at least mediocre translations can be excused. :) (I think Stephen does translations nowadays, which is good, but I have no clue as to his involvement, nor of the rules Viz imposes on his translations.)
One website, with ads and/or a pay-portal, that beats the scanlators in time and quality - or is at least Mangastream quality. That is all that is needed to be competitive and squash us moochers. But probably JUMP will need to have the first on-the-shelves release contractually in Japan, meaning the unofficial scanlators still have half a week worth of head start. In my eyes, that can be fixed with a Japanese pay-portal too.. given the fact it is largely commuters reading OP in buses/trains, I think it would not change the current situation too heavily even for Jump. But for businesses, risk sucks, so it won't happen.
What about certain countries that doesn't have it (One Piece)?
And what about those who can't buy all of the volumes?
I am in both those categories. And it sucks.
And for the guy you replied to that says we shouldn't read it if we can't pay for it - would you be surprised to hear that a fair number of people end up buying One Piece merchandise while skipping the volumes? When you are serious about volumes, it is a very constant money-sink… so some people prefer to do one-off purchases that can stand on their own merits. And at those points, a cute Nami statue, or a sexy Boa, or an icy Robin is by far preferable to paying the squeezey-squeezey prices our local manga-hole demands.
It is the masses of freeloaders that helped build demand in the States, and sustain it to boot. Do you think the 4kids disaster made Funimation decide to give it another go? (It may have been 'later' than the original manga adoption, but it was at the time the biggest exposure to the American public, and all but poisoned it.) It is our raving about One Piece that tickle the interests of those around us. And I don't mean fellow otaku nerds, but the slightly less geeky types that do not care about scanlations or reading it off a screen. The types that care about having something physical to touch. Those that like to speak of rubber fruits, and don't really understand the meaning of -san behind a name. They want a quality product, and it would not have been there without the cheapskates.
Of couse, this differs per product. But big as Japanese manga and anime might be in the States, it is still a very niche market that ordinary advertising can't easily reach. Word of mouth is paramount. And it is the freeloaders that will make the next manga popular enough to register on the radar of whatever company buys the rights. And if you don't believe me, take Google as an example. Sure, it is not manga, nor is it japanese, but Search engines were dead in the water and generally hated before Google introduced the awesome. Same with the email experience. Word of mouth from avid fans can be worth more than money itself.
Shipping costs alot? ok. Buy in bulk, that should reduce shipping per volume. Is there no free shipping on orders certain price?
Oda talked about how this many volumes is not cheap. Thats same for anyone american, japanese, or some random guy in antarctica wanting his fix. Doesn't matter where you live buying 66+ volumes is expensive.
Also why are people pissed at Viz for America and Canada getting it. Start bitching at your local people to localize a manga reading thing. I'm pissed at many gaming companies for not localizing a game.
For some reason I dont think It is only about bitching. Viz are doing this because volume sales have gone down, manga in its whole is going down. Volume sales havent gone that much down in europe especially france (where most of the licencing companies for europe are) and they are frightened that the volume sales would go down with this internet thing. (If you calculate you gain more money on the volume sales than the other thing a fright I honestly understand)
For some reason I dont think It is only about bitching. Viz are doing this because volume sales have gone down, manga in its whole is going down. Volume sales havent gone that much down in europe especially france (where most of the licencing companies for europe are) and they are frightened that the volume sales would go down with this internet thing. (If you calculate you gain more money on the volume sales than the other thing a fright I honestly understand)
There doing this for business. no duh
Volume sales or not, I see no reason not to do this. If I was Viz and had right to One Piece I would do even more than this. i would type in google (one piece manga) click on first few pages of links and send out letters to cease and desist. I as Viz have a LEGAL way to read this COPYRIGHTED material that I OWN the liscense for and none of you do. So take down your pages.
TV shows now a days also have their recent episodes on their own website to view. Try typing in any tv show, you will have a hard time finding a free stream online other than their own site. Yet manga i can find like a handful easy a heck all hosting one piece.
Competition? hard to consider mangastream competition when they are not legal.
AND you guys will still get your pirated manga. You can still download movies, music, episodes, games you name it all illegally. Its just not as widespread as it was back before things like Itunes and what not.
While there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to support legal One Piece (and I know for years, back when Viz was just starting out and 4Kids was responsible for the dub, we talked endlessly about being willing to support legal, high quality One Piece translations) I can't help but feel like we're losing our backbone as a community over this. Many scanlations and fansubs are the sign of a healthy community. I'm glad that KF has stuck around and Funimation has been very nice about having competition when it comes to subbing. As a result, I'm far more willing to buy their dub releases. Why? Because they respect our community, they don't issue takedowns, and they are putting out a product that I literally can't get anywhere else: a show with full English voice acting. Viz is a different matter: they don't want competition and their competition is providing the same basic product they are. The big difference is that Viz can bind volumes for traditional reading. As a community, we shouldn't be supporting Viz. If they can truly put out a better product they shouldn't need C&D orders to get sales via a monopoly. It's also time we as a society rethink the application of capitalism to ideas, but I digress; that is a topic for another day.
There's a distinct lack of scanlation and subbing groups compared to a few years ago. Traditionally there've been a handful of subbers/scanlators who rushed out the newest episodes, perhaps one or two that were a couple weeks behind but aimed for a good mix of speed and quality, and at least one major translator that was a couple years behind but aimed for the highest quality. One Piece's foreign community has been lucky to have this so far. It's been a real blessing to have an abundance of choice ranging from speed to quality. But now there's no major English HQ translators. Nor any English scanlators best I can tell. NULL was way behind and I could accept being 2-3 years behind waiting for their release, but now they've quit. There's still quite a few people subbing the anime, though they're all speed subs and the only real alternative is KF. For perspective, KF is on Enies Lobby and when I first joined these forums the Manga was in the same place.
This concerns me. It seems like the translators are dying out. The old-school translators have broken up for a myriad of reasons or they've gotten tired of all the work. They've been generous thus far; many of them have day jobs and do translations in their spare time. I can hardly blame them for shutting down a free service. But at the end of the day, they represent the community's health. In a way, we're stagnating. The posts on this site are all "General Discussion Thread, Part X" and there's few original threads discussing the series here. It wasn't always that way. Now all posts are categorized. Stuff like takedowns should have their own post, not be shoved at the backend of a Viz General Discussion. But more on point, we're losing scanlators and subbers and that's a concern. As fans of the manga, we're dead in the water without NULL and even though I hated their watermarks Binktopia/Mangastream were the only ones releasing in English that I can find. Our "where to find OP manga" thread is 2+ years old and there's been few updates. The scanlation section of the site may as well be for Italian releases only (props to them for keeping up releases, though) and this isn't a good position to be in.
However, the first action I'd recommend taking is to choose to not support Viz if they won't support the community. I have no doubt that they genuinely believe legal manga is the best thing for their communities. But it's really only what's best for them. It's neither what's best for the fans, the health of their community, nor the original author of the series. And as such, we shouldn't support their online releases at cost. Their translations are somewhat shoddy, the quality of image is only high because they have access to the original prints, and so long as the translation is decent and the images are high-res I think the community can put out a superior product. Supporting Viz after they issue takedowns sends them the message that hurting the community is profitable and thus best for them. That's not right. We as a community need to demand/provide downloaded, non-watermarked, HQ English scans. I for one won't give Viz any money unless I can have decent scans on my hard-drive. I won't buy any volumes of their manga that I don't have a satisfactory copy of on my computer and neither should anyone else. Instead, support Funimation. They care about the community. They let fansubs live on without hassling them. And in the end it's for the best of both the community and the series. Free, high quality translations has gained One Piece and other series more fans than any other distribution method. I've dumped hundreds into imported merchandise since getting into this series. And the last thing I want to see is the English-speaking community snuffed out because Viz bullied us into buying their sub-par product and shutting down any competition.
This post is full of contradictions and redundancies that are based on a false premise…
Healthy competition is not two people releasing the same product in different ways. Healthy competition, which I assume is what you think KF and FUNimation have, which is actually not what they have, is like when two paper towel companies release a similar product, or when Sony and Panasonic both release flat screen tvs and the consumer can pick which one they want. They products offered aren't replications of each other, and if you think that FUNimation is selling the dub then you are wrong they are selling One Piece.
Secondly the translations offered by Mangastream were horrendous. I only read them because they came out faster than they do in Japan. Many debates on this forum actually spawn from the bad translation.
As for the main contradiction in your post and I think what you really don't understand is that you seem to think Viz is trying to stop people from getting One Piece and other manga, when in actuality they are trying to offer legal distribution. Mangastream could have been shut down by Shueisha even if Viz never existed and there was no legal way to obtain JUMP manga in the USA and Canada because what they were doing was illegal.
There doing this for business. no duh
Volume sales or not, I see no reason not to do this. If I was Viz and had right to One Piece I would do even more than this. i would type in google (one piece manga) click on first few pages of links and send out letters to cease and desist. I as Viz have a LEGAL way to read this COPYRIGHTED material that I OWN the liscense for and none of you do. So take down your pages.
TV shows now a days also have their recent episodes on their own website to view. Try typing in any tv show, you will have a hard time finding a free stream online other than their own site. Yet manga i can find like a handful easy a heck all hosting one piece.
Competition? hard to consider mangastream competition when they are not legal.
AND you guys will still get your pirated manga. You can still download movies, music, episodes, games you name it all illegally. Its just not as widespread as it was back before things like Itunes and what not.
You're trying to tell me you only buy chapters/volumes of this and other series legally and don't read scans? F*cking hypocrites.