-Bombardement of the stronghold of the revolution has started…
Rock the Casbah: Arab-World Revolutions
-
-
Well it is not similar but I am giving you an example, if we arent allowed then how come many other countries actions like these can be seen wonderfully in the international community. It is the same thing no matter if is USA , China, Egypt , Libya , when the people form a rebel army and stop being peaceful. Yes Gaddafi is insane, but it still doesnt give people the right to take arms and start a revolution you know
If the said insane dictator is bombing his own people, yes they absolutely DO have the right to revolt.
Stop comparing the Libyan situation with an established first world nation. This is the dumbest thing ever posted in this thread.
It is NOT the same thing. Not even CLOSE. Jesus.As honorable and awesome as Gandhi was, you can't expect or demand everyone to be one.
Only reason why Gandhi and MLK Jr's methods worked, is because the opposing establishment was capable of being reasoned with.
An insane dictator is not one of such establishment. -
The only people with the right to take arms and attack an established government are Americans.
/dragonpiece
-
How the heck is a dude currently fighting a deposed government (Taliban) gonna question a revolt in Libya.
ALL our Afghan allies are former rebels.
Shook hands with Dostum lately? Still trying to invoke Massoud to the people? Still defending Karzai? -
Here's the gist of today people! Extra extra!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_uprising#17_March -
Seriously though dragonpiece, have you met Dostum, because Dostum sounds like a ridiculous action movie character, like he would star in an Uzbek version of Machete.
-
Ten o'clock, no-fly zone time.
-
The idea of American planes blowing up some Libyan one en route to possibly killing Bar Kum makes me feel nice…
-
Don't think a no fly zone will be of much use now that Ghadafi has almost retaken the entire country.
-
Not having planes will weaken him a lot.
-
The only people with the right to take arms and attack an established government are Americans.
/dragonpiece
Did not say that and never implied it. I was just saying that many people in US look at rebellions in a good way but if it happen in their own country , here, they would condem it.
One of the problems of the No-fly zone was that The arab league aproved it but then they called for no international interference, to western countries that was confusing, however it is clearly that the arab league want arab countries to implement the no fly instead of western planes. Now will the western nations accept that? I feel that the arab league have a legit concern here, I mean I doubt people in the middle east want more american troops and NATO troops in their lands, right?
I believe the no flight will serve good if Gaddafi violates it, his planes will be taken down and will be easier to invade after all this is over, to remove him from power, if it ever happens. But don't be too confident, he still hold major arsenal for ground battle.
I think its not fair neither that Rebels are hiding or staying in houses full of civilians, that will just cause more innocent deaths.
This war is perhaps well justified for a regime change of opression, like many Libyans say but at the same time it was taken out of proportions by Gaddafi full blown all out initial killings,deffinitively he got to go.To JerkD.
All of our Afghan allies are NOT rebel forces. Many are part of the new government and trained military , others are policemen, etc. Yes they do have rebels, but I know for sure what are the causes of our war with Afghanistan and I have seen it with my own eyes. On this conflict in Libya, I needed clarification and retification. Now that I have it, you see my new points of views.
Massoud is an idiot and Karzai is just a man trapped in support for the West and the frustration of his own people to kick out the West. For a puppet governant, is not easy to speak up against the countries who put him in power, same with the Shah of Iran (former) , he was a simply poor guy who became a soldier and because of his views and experience was placed as the ruler of Iran, only difference is that he was dressed in his fairy rich western tale and forgot his people, Karzai is still in the dilema. -
Don't think a no fly zone will be of much use now that Ghadafi has almost retaken the entire country.
I don't know where you guys get this, but he isn't controlling anything. Even Zawiya, which is the closest city to Tripoli has not yet fallen. Now imagine if he can only depend on forces that have no support from the sky or the sea.
-Libya state TV: Gaddafi will address the people of Benghazi.
Edit: He is talking right now.
I think its not fair neither that Rebels are hiding or staying in houses full of civilians, that will just cause more innocent deaths.
lol, you're a natural aren't you.
-
I don't know where you guys get this, but he isn't controlling anything. Even Zawiya, which is the closest city to Tripoli has not yet fallen. Now imagine if he can only depend on forces that have no support from the sky or the sea.
-Libya state TV: Gaddafi will address the people of Benghazi.
Edit: He is talking right now.
lol, you're a natural aren't you.
Well about your last quote, that was what soldiers in Libya expressed concern about. Is not something I am inventing,
here is where I got that info from http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/17/robertson.army.advance.ajdabiya.cnn?hpt=C2 -
Well about your last quote, that was what soldiers in Libya expressed concern about. Is not something I am inventing,
here is where I got that info from http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/17/robertson.army.advance.ajdabiya.cnn?hpt=C2AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You're clueless aren't you? Damn, I hope they don't send you there.
-
Don't think a no fly zone will be of much use now that Ghadafi has almost retaken the entire country.
Gaddafi's strategy thus far has been to airstrike big targets.
A no-fly zone will completely cripple him.
@asm00200:-Libya state TV: Gaddafi will address the people of Benghazi.
And what new comedic gems with Brother Leader bestow upon us today.
-
Oh, good. Aljazeera posted all that shit:[hide]
"Throw away your arms and find a way out of the city, and then you are saved. Those young men who have been taken advantage of - those infidels who are attempting to burn down our country to the ground, we should have no mercy on them. Those are the traitors, used and abused by those infidels from Qatar, unfortunately, Kuwait and other countries. How stupid can you become to be taken advantage of to that extent in Benghazi? Now you're hungry and thirsty - we don't have a natural disaster like the one that happened in Japan recently … but those infidels and traitors we promise to deal with. But the peaceful individuals of our people ... should put down their weapons, there is no danger. They should not feel unsafe. There is not a single officer in Benghazi who did not call us, who have been warning us that they have been threatened by people like Zarkawi of being slaughtered.
"Those who have been forced to follow those infidels ... those also will be forgiven, granted amnesty, those are my children, and we should not leave those children to distort the image of our country after such a bright history. You have been forced.
One of the companions of the prophets who was tortured who was forced to say he did not believe in the Prophet Muhammad, and he could not face the Prophet afterwards. And the Prophet said don't worry, God has forgiven you. Except those who were forced to utter things against their hearts. Even those of you who were forced to say things against myself, you are my children, and those in the special forces, the free officers of this country, you have sworn to defend the revolution of September. To fight the enemies. We are coming your rescue. And we will turn the sad situation into celebrations. We will wipe out this black page of our history.
"To all those honest, brave officers, members of the revolutionary committees, university students, and female revolutionary committees, get ready to rebel against those traitors. The world has to see this tomorrow... that Benghazi is not a city of traitors.
"Benghazi, I have liberated it myself earlier with my gun.
"Those, the people who we have seen from one of the city to the other. Destroy any fortified points that you can get to, and if they run away, you take their weapons and you can occupy them.
"The Jawazi tribes, those are brave tribes, we have been proud of. They have an honourable history before the whole world. Let the world witness one more good deed.
"From tonight, those who decide to flee, you take their weapons, and you keep them safe.
"Is it possible that each plane that flies crashes? Is that real? Can that happen?
"There is a cemetary that has been bombed. Is that possible? How can you bomb a cemetary? You are bombing dead people. Your grandparents are buried there. ...
"These planes are supposed to be liberating Palestine, or confronting imperialism. Is it possible that our planes are fighting each other? Is it real?
"All people should surround the traitors, to tell them that there is no way out.
"What indicates to us about this current enemy, where are they, where are they hiding, in what room? They are cheating you to tell you that a plane has been able to hit Bab Al-Aziziya, where I live. It has been the centre of celebrations."
They are finished, they are wiped out. From tomorrow you will only find our people. You all go out and cleanse the city of Benghazi. A small problem that has become an international issue. And they are voting on it tonight … because they are determined. As I have said, we are determined. We will track them down, and search for them, alley by alley, road by road, the Libyan people all of them together will be crawling out. Massive waves of people will be crawling out to rescue the people of Benghazi, who are calling out for help, asking us to rescue them. We should come to their rescue.
"And I, Muammar Gaddafi, I will die for my people. With Allah's help.
"No more fear, no more hesitation, we are no longer reluctant. The moment of truth has come. If you see the cars with loudspeakers, destroy them, destroy their communications points that are spreading lies to you. Our children are the one's who have destroyed these planes.
"Just like Franco in Spain, who rolled into Madrid with external support. And they asked how did you manage to liberate Madrid? He said: 'There was a fifth column, the people of the city.' You are the fifth column within the city. This is the day on which we should liberate the city. We've been looking forward to that day. And tomorrow we will communicate again, and our cause will continue towards the south.
"With our bare chests and heads we were confronting the dangers, facing the challenge, we did not initiate this violence, they started it. Of course, these words will have an impact on the traitors and infidels. Tonight they will panic and they will collapse.
"You are capable of doing it. You are capable of achieving this. Let's set our women and daughters free from those traitors.
"God is great."
[/hide]
-
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You're clueless aren't you? Damn, I hope they don't send you there.
Is not like I am there to know exactly what happens. All I can do is watch news and hear people opinions and experiences. How do you expect me to be a pro in what is really going on, I can only give my opinion of what I see (vids) and hear. Do you live in Libya?
-
Oh, good. Aljazeera posted all that shit:
What a nutcase. Not surprising, though.
The sooner he's ousted, the better.
-
Oh, good. Aljazeera posted all that shit:
checks inside spoiler
blanks
silently goes off to watch this
-vUt2fpmxYM
Dn't ask me why I dn't know. Suddenly it was an urge.
-
Oh, good. Aljazeera posted all that shit:
AAAAAHHAHAHAahahahaahahaaa
And everyone in Benghazi simultaneously groaned.
@Dragonxpiece:Is not like I am there to know exactly what happens. All I can do is watch news and hear people opinions and experiences. How do you expect me to be a pro in what is really going on, I can only give my opinion of what I see (vids) and hear. Do you live in Libya?
We've got a guy, Bar Kum, who lives in Libya, and he's been giving us first-hand info on the airstrikes and the hospital bombings.
-
not like I am there to know exactly what happens.
Well, you can follow the news or you know.. read the thread.
All I can do is watch news and hear people opinions and experiences.
And obviously you only heard what Gaddafi's forces are saying. The same forces who are killing the Libyan people.
-
Well, you can follow the news or you know.. read the thread.
And obviously you only heard what Gaddafi's forces are saying. The same forces who are killing the Libyan people.
correction, Libyan ARMED Rebel forces. people stop being just "people" when they choose to bear arms and go hand by hand the same with the people who are fighthing them and become soldiers,warriors etc. the real just "civilan people" are those who fleed and refused to kill others.
I belong the army and one the first things that they teach us in Officer School is not to believe only ONE side of the story.
I am listening to both parts, one side cant be the only correct one and it usually isnt. Perhaps gaddaffi is wrong, but soldiers inside their army , they often might have no direct connection to gaddafi but their own opinions as human being must be heard the same as rebel forces. they both fighting for different alliances but they all want in the end a united libya. -
-
Maybe tonight .
-
That's scary. Getting ready for an impending attack possibly coming in the dead of the night. There's bound to be a fierce fight for the city. I hope the Libyan people (protestors) can hold on.
-
correction, Libyan ARMED Rebel forces.
lol.
people stop being just "people" when they choose to bear arms and go hand by hand the same with the people who are fighthing them and become soldiers,warriors etc.
What the fuck are you talking about? They didn't choose to fight, they were being bombarded and shot by anti-aircraft bullets in their houses even before they thought of fighting. What do you expect them to do.
the real just "civilan people" are those who fleed and refused to kill others.
What about the people who refused to leave there homes and decided to stay? Seriously, what are you even trying to say.
I belong the army and one the first things that they teach us in Officer School is not to believe only ONE side of the story.
You don't really need officer school to tell you that and I'm pretty sure you you would like to hear what's Gaddafi's side of the story is.
Perhaps gaddaffi is wrong
Not perhaps, he is wrong.
but soldiers inside their army , they often might have no direct connection to gaddafi but their own opinions as human being must be heard the same as rebel forces. they both fighting for different alliances but they all want in the end a united libya.
and that's why I told you are clueless. You obviously have no idea what is happening and who is fighting who.
Now stop talking.
-
So is this supposed to happen tomorrow?
Not that I can't see Gaddafi doing it, but it's probably part of the psychological war and maybe trying to affect the UN resolution.
-
DragonxPiece :wassat: Do you understand the equation here?It's crystal clear civilians have been oppressed for 40 years. They finally have enough courage to peacefully protest. For this they get shot by rocket missiles,live bullets,bombs and what not. Some decide to flee the country,others put their lives at stake to fight for the freedom of all.
How does taking up arms demonize these civilians in your eyes?I dnt understand this?
You talk of both sides wanting unity forgetting to mention that one whishes for a unity under oppression. Read that word again OPPRESSION. (And the opinion of the pro Gaddafi forces has absolutely no right to be heard in Egypt and Tunisia didn't the army
rightfully side with the civilians' struggle?Because it is just! In lybia some ex army members are currently training the rebels.
If anything the pro gaddafi soldiers are endoctrinated &/or scared of what will happen should they disobey that is all.)Seriously you seem like a decent guy with genuine concerns and all but you are being really dense with your posts since yesterday I wish Bart Ku would post soon to clear your doubts by reading the opinion of a REAL LYBIAN PEEPLE.
k i generally leave these kind of things to the debaters of the forum but goddammit this is insulting to the people fighting over there. /end
-
lol.
What the fuck are you talking about? They didn't choose to fight, they were being bombarded and shot by anti-aircraft bullets in their houses even before they thought of fighting. What do you expect them to do.
What about the people who refused to leave there homes and decided to stay? Seriously, what are you even trying to say.
You don't really need officer school to tell you that and I'm pretty sure you you would like to hear what's Gaddafi's side of the story is.
Not perhaps, he is wrong.
and that's why I told you are clueless. You obviously have no idea what is happening and who is fighting who.
Now stop talking.
LOL @ your frustration. I can see which side are you on.
Yea Gaddafi is wrong.People who refused to leave and decided to stay , that is fine. but taking and attacking government forces and control cities ? that is hardly something civilians would do.
I am all up for stopping Gaddafi, I am all up for a no fly zone, and I am all up against civilian (non armed and inocent that is) deaths.I cant be up for anything else because I dont live there.
-
correction, Libyan ARMED Rebel forces. people stop being just "people" when they choose to bear arms and go hand by hand the same with the people who are fighthing them and become soldiers,warriors etc. the real just "civilan people" are those who fleed and refused to kill others.
Cause and effect Dragonxpiece!! Learn it! You can't kill someone for posessing a weapon when it was you who forced him to get one. Why do you think this was the only revolution that turned from protests to streetfighing? Because the Rebels wanted that? No! Because Gaddaffi wanted that!
-
If the government started bombing the crap out of you, you'd take up arms as well.
-
LOL @ your frustration. I can see which side are you on.
Yea Gaddafi is wrong.People who refused to leave and decided to stay , that is fine. but taking and attacking government forces and control cities ? that is hardly something civilians would do.
I am all up for stopping Gaddafi, I am all up for a no fly zone, and I am all up against civilian (non armed and inocent that is) deaths.I cant be up for anything else because I dont live there.
You do realize that in the very country you live in civilian took to arms and created a militia and fought for their freedom. You realize this right ?
-
i am all for debate and difference of opinion. But this has been one great thread. lets not spoil it coz of one idiot and just ignore him
-
LOL @ your frustration. I can see which side are you on.
and lol at you're ignorance, there is no sides in this shit. Did you really need to read my post to realize how I feel about this.
No seriously, I hope they don't send you there.
but taking and attacking government forces and control cities ? that is hardly something civilians would do.
There ain't no government. And what are you implying by that is hardly something civilians would do. Don't tell me you believe it's al-qaeda lol.
-
Guys with the recent attacks on revolutionary positions, I kind of am afraid of each new development , so, could we please stop arguing with someone with a lack of basic dictionary skills ? Every time I visit this thread instead of the news I anxiously await, especialy given BK's situation, and instead find dragonxpiece bitching about how right Gaddafi is, it just makes me more anxious to not miss the news when it comes.
-
Wait shit I skipped that part of the speech if I understand correctly this crackhead is talking of cleaning Benghazi tonight?
-
I think he also mentioned that he owns the sun and that all people have to pay him in order to use it.
-
Eh I didn't say Gaddafi was right. But I dont believe based on my experience in Afghanistan that civilians should attack government forces. it just make things worst.
No they shouldn't get bombed neither. They should just avoid any violence and follow government warnings, I mean come one people, if the government tells you they will bomb you if you dont leave, and you stay, aren't you already warned and pretty much you accepted being bombed?
Everytime in Afghanistan someone hated us for being there, or for whatever reason, they turned to the Taliban and insurgency, yes they were citizens, but no ISAF soldier hesitated on shoting them down once they had a weapon and a will against us. Most governments in the world labeled these "civilians" as terrorist and insurgents, and the ones that we considered civilians were those who stayed home, tried to comply or at least knew something was wrong and decided to do things more diplomatically, and if they didnt achieved them, then oh well. I am against Gaddafi, but I cant look with good eyes neither the rebel army trying to take cities from the corrupt leader, that is just putting more gasoline to the fire. -
Eh I didn't say Gaddafi was right. But I dont believe based on my experience in Afghanistan that civilians should attack government forces. it just make things worst.
No they shouldn't get bombed neither. They should just avoid any violence and follow government warnings, I mean come one people, if the government tells you they will bomb you if you dont leave, and you stay, aren't you already warned and pretty much you accepted being bombed?
Everytime in Afghanistan someone hated us for being there, or for whatever reason, they turned to the Taliban and insurgency, yes they were citizens, but no ISAF soldier hesitated on shoting them down once they had a weapon and a will against us. Most governments in the world labeled these "civilians" as terrorist and insurgents, and the ones that we considered civilians were those who stayed home, tried to comply or at least knew something was wrong and decided to do things more diplomatically, and if they didnt achieved them, then oh well. I am against Gaddafi, but I cant look with good eyes neither the rebel army trying to take cities from the corrupt leader, that is just putting more gasoline to the fire.6GcUutnU2gk
. . -
I think you got sand in your head wound when you were in the middle east
-
I guess I just look at things in a more Governamental - Militaristic and National Security way rather than a more civilian - Journalistic -Revolution way like most people in the forum.
-
"niggas were warned why didnt they pack their shit duh".
I think you are just taking the piss now. And in this context, rebels takin' over=freedom.
-
Eh I didn't say Gaddafi was right. But I dont believe based on my experience in Afghanistan that civilians should attack government forces. it just make things worst.
No they shouldn't get bombed neither. They should just avoid any violence and follow government warnings, I mean come one people, if the government tells you they will bomb you if you dont leave, and you stay, aren't you already warned and pretty much you accepted being bombed?
Everytime in Afghanistan someone hated us for being there, or for whatever reason, they turned to the Taliban and insurgency, yes they were citizens, but no ISAF soldier hesitated on shoting them down once they had a weapon and a will against us. Most governments in the world labeled these "civilians" as terrorist and insurgents, and the ones that we considered civilians were those who stayed home, tried to comply or at least knew something was wrong and decided to do things more diplomatically, and if they didnt achieved them, then oh well. I am against Gaddafi, but I cant look with good eyes neither the rebel army trying to take cities from the corrupt leader, that is just putting more gasoline to the fire.Here's a crazy thought: Sometimes, if you fight for your rights and your freedom (even if many lives are lost in that process) you will actually achieve something. Maybe there will even be a govermnent that does what it's supposed to do (acting in favor of the people while staying rational).
I thought you'd be more convinced of the principle of democracy being an american soldier who was in Afghanistan.
-
I guess I just look at things in a more Governamental - Militaristic and National Security way rather than a more civilian - Journalistic -Revolution way like most people in the forum.
Don't think you're so high and mighty to talk about national security. You obviously have no idea what freedom and democracy is really about seeing how you condemn the Lybian people for fighting for those exact sentiments. They never had any choice because there's simply no reasoning with a batshit insane autocrat like Gaddafi, but I guess you forgot to include that in your little ramblings.
Anyways I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Lybian people and that they will be able to keep Benghazi. Seriously NATO shitheads when will you stop sitting on your fat asses watching people get needlessly slaughtered until you do something? Here I thought they've learned from their past mistakes.
-
He has to be a troll.
I refuse to believe someone here could be such a piece of trash, or so idiotic.
At the point he's avoiding to even reply or mention points completely refuting his rant, I believe he must be purposely instigating rage. -
@dragonpiecex:
All of our Afghan allies are NOT rebel forces. Many are part of the new government and trained military, others are policemen, etc.
You moron.
The current infrastructure and administration is largely made up of former rebels against the Taliban.
Karzai was a rebel. Dostum was a rebel. Ismail Khan was a rebel.
They've been rebels for over a decade some of them. Many of them were rebels against the Communists, then against the Taliban.
And when we were planning to run out the Taliban they were the first people we contacted, and we were already thinking about who to place into positions in the new government after we ran the Taliban out.Yes they do have rebels, but I know for sure what are the causes of our war with Afghanistan and I have seen it with my own eyes.
You know what, I don't think you do.
Before if nothing else I assumed you would understand this, especially being as it's not very hard.But you don't seem to have the slightest clue who the current Afghan government and politicians were before we came in.
I half expect you to act shocked at the mention of Communists being there at one point.
Massoud is an idiot
Massoud was a hero and potentially the greatest Muslim hero in centuries had he lived into the new Afghanistan. He could have singlehandedly built cultural bridges between the US and Muslim world, he even tried warning us about Bin Laden planning something major against us.
Bin Laden had him killed like a month before 9-11.I don't think you even know about the Massoud I'm talking about thankfully, you better have been thinking of someone else.
and Karzai is just a man trapped in support for the West and the frustration of his own people to kick out the West.
Karzai was a funder of insurgency against the Taliban. ooohhhh noooo a reebbeelll!
-
correction, Libyan ARMED Rebel forces. people stop being just "people" when they choose to bear arms and go hand by hand the same with the people who are fighthing them and become soldiers,warriors etc. the real just "civilan people" are those who fleed and refused to kill others.
I belong the army and one the first things that they teach us in Officer School is not to believe only ONE side of the story.
I am listening to both parts, one side cant be the only correct one and it usually isnt. Perhaps gaddaffi is wrong, but soldiers inside their army , they often might have no direct connection to gaddafi but their own opinions as human being must be heard the same as rebel forces. they both fighting for different alliances but they all want in the end a united libya.Can someone thread ban this idiot.
-
the real just "civilan people" are those who fleed and refused to kill others.
YOU ARE IN A GODDAMN ARMY
-
Dragonxpiece is the guy who made a dupe account to buy things from himself in the one piece merch thread so as to make himself seem more credible
I actually doubt he was in any army
-
This is the guy dragonpiece called an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massoud