The devilfruit power doesn't disappear in the sea.
Of course, no devilfruit user would be strong enough to use their fruit in the sea (and saying a logia is always a logia is wrong, because Caribou could take a hit).
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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saying a logia is always a logia is wrong, because Caribou could take a hit).
This, too. Good point. Franky explained it, so it's not just a gag either. I subscribe to the theory that more advanced Logia users go into elemental form 'instinctively' when they get hit. Or alternatively, they intentionally go into human form when they want to get hit, like Caribou – either way works, but the bottom line is that there definitely seems to be a "human form" or "real body" and a separate "elemental state". The only (big, admittedly) issue is Blackbeard. But I choose to view that as the inconsistency in the face of other evidence.
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Logia user definitely have a degree of control over the state of their bodies that Luffy's power does not have. Smoker was also shown to maintain a tangible body underwater in Alabasta when Zoro rescued him.
@Coruscation:This, too. Good point. Franky explained it, so it's not just a gag either. I subscribe to the theory that more advanced Logia users go into elemental form 'instinctively' when they get hit. Or alternatively, they intentionally go into human form when they want to get hit, like Caribou – either way works, but the bottom line is that there definitely seems to be a "human form" or "real body" and a separate "elemental state". The only (big, admittedly) issue is Blackbeard. But I choose to view that as the inconsistency in the face of other evidence.
How does Blackbeard's power refute your theory? Blackbeard simple states that his element absorbs attacks and therefore he can not let attacks pass through his body. Blackbeard appears to take damage like a normal human would which he may do by choice since turning into darkness does not afford him any real advantages defensively.
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I know of the Blackbeard example.
Not sure exactly what you mean by the 'Blackbeard example'? You mean his fruit power?
[…] according to the theory you subscribe to Ace would still be fire if he fell into the sea, […] it would mean that the characters do not bleed actual blood but rather "fire blood" or "lightning blood" […] and moreover it would present enormous issues to the characters' everyday lives if they were not able to utilize a "human form".
@Sonic:
Saying a logia is always a logia is wrong, because Caribou could take a hit.
Let me clarify, as I don't subscribe to any theory other than my own. My view on logia users has always been that their fruit power is always in an active state. That is to say, any pain (physical contact) beyond a certain threshold automatically changes their body to their element. I believe this is the general principle that Oda follows, but often bends or breaks when he needs to. Ace accidentally burning the hat from being cut, for example, only works if his ability activates automatically. Beyond that I don't think Oda cares. I see no issue with Oda deciding they can suppress the change to hide their ability, for example. Or for that matter deciding that a logia user can be stabbed or cut when underwater.
As far as I can tell, the sea and seastone both simply inhibit DF powers. Chopper automatically turns back to his 'base' state when he falls into the sea, for example.
Actually, Chopper is a reindeer, and as such his 'base' state is that of a reindeer. What you are referring to as his base state is, in fact, his hybrid form. I believe there is an example of him being knocked out while in his human form, but most of the time he seems to revert to his hybrid. Really it just pushes my point that Oda has not created a perfect system and instead bends the flexible 'rules' that have been set in place.
I subscribe to the theory that more advanced Logia users go into elemental form 'instinctively' when they get hit.
I'm not saying this applies to you, but a majority of said subscribers believe so because of the misinformation about training one's Devil Fruit. Crocodile once said that he wasn't content with his powers like most ability users are, and instead honed them to perfection. In context, he was referring to things like creating sandstorms, sucking the moisture out of someone, and creating sink holes. So, really, there is nothing at all to suggest one has to train to phase attacks automatically, and the burden of proof would be on you (or whoever chooses to argue that point) to show otherwise.
As far as I can tell, the sea and seastone both simply inhibit DF powers.
So moving back to the whole seastone issue, I would say again that I think it is a mixture of all three categories I mentioned. Mainly I think Oda uses the first rule as a base, but tends to bend that rule or make exceptions for specific power users or scenarios. As such, I think the intended purpose of seastone in the series is to seal a fruit user's powers completely. Were it not for Luffy stretching while underwater, I'd say the same for the sea as a whole. Or we can pretend that Luffy is one of the first to break the rule entirely. But… I'd definitely say Luffy getting smacked by Smoker's jutte was as painful as any hit he took from the Boa sisters or Sentoumaru, for example.
That all said, I doubt there will ever be a completely right or wrong answer to this question / debate; far too many slip-ups and exceptions on Oda's part. Even if he gave an answer in SBS, he'd probably contradict himself afterward.
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Not sure exactly what you mean by the 'Blackbeard example'? You mean his fruit power?
Let me clarify, as I don't subscribe to any theory other than my own. …
You subscribe to your theories? Can I get a subscription too?:ninja:
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This has nothing to do with the current discussion but could someone clarify wth Luffy and Smoker mean on the next page with the "He's stronger" and "that goes for the both of us lines?"
That has always confused the hell out of me. Is there another translation of that which makes more sense?
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Let me clarify, as I don't subscribe to any theory other than my own. My view on logia users has always been that their fruit power is always in an active state. That is to say, any pain (physical contact) beyond a certain threshold automatically changes their body to their element. I believe this is the general principle that Oda follows, but often bends or breaks when he needs to. Ace accidentally burning the hat from being cut, for example, only works if his ability activates automatically. Beyond that I don't think Oda cares. I see no issue with Oda deciding they can suppress the change to hide their ability, for example. Or for that matter deciding that a logia user can be stabbed or cut when underwater.
Sure. If I was a logia, I would have my power activated all the time. Doesn't mean I don't have a state where it's not.
As we all know, using the power of the devilfruit doesn't drain ANY stamina from the user. So I see no problem in a Logia user having his or her power activated at all time (for safe measures).
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This has nothing to do with the current discussion but could someone clarify wth Luffy and Smoker mean on the next page with the "He's stronger" and "that goes for the both of us lines?"
That has always confused the hell out of me. Is there another translation of that which makes more sense?
Luffy points out the Smoker is stronger then he was when they first fought and Smoker is saying that Luffy has gotten stronger as well.
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You subscribe to your theories? Can I get a subscription too? :ninja:
I simply meant 'agree or assent', which is the definition both he and I were using. I won't say no to you paying me money for my theories, however.
@Sonic:
Sure. If I was a logia, I would have my power activated all the time. Doesn't mean I don't have a state where it's not.
It really doesn't matter. All you are doing with this argument is suggesting that either of us might be right, which does not at all disagree with what I said in my post. On the contrary, it completely misses the point I was making while ignoring an example to the contrary and suggesting something much more improbable. If Ace learned to activate his power whenever he wanted, why can he not turn it off to make a hat? When you write a potential weakness like that into an ability, you do so to exploit it. If you never exploit it and never even explain it or draw attention to it, what purpose does it serve?
Honestly, it's not worth arguing. All I wanted to point out from the start was that I think Oda had a certain frame of mind when he wrote most of this stuff, but didn't really decide on a strict rule that absolutely must be constant throughout the series. In fact, some portions of that rule might restrict him too much, so exceptions and mistakes are made. Mr.3 was found floating in water. Luffy's body still stretches underwater. A seastone jutte hurt Luffy a lot. Chopper reverted to his hybrid form. Etc, etc.
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I accidentally removed most of a whole written reply, so I'm just going to do a quicker rundown now:
Blackbeard: I'm talking about how he suffers increased pain from being darkness, and if he could simply -not- turn into darkness when hit it would remove the issue (Credit to Vanessa, I didn't think of this myself).
Pain threshold triggering the element form: I'd be okay with this, were it not for Caribou and Franky actually explaining that he took the attacks on purpose. Maybe Oda will reveal that it was just pure luck that his fruit was not revealed in the form of Sanji using CoA Haki, though; if he does that, I think we can consider your theory (or something like it) confirmed.
Chopper: I've sort of gotten the impression that Oda treats what's technically his hybrid form as his "base" state. That's why I called it that, and it seems to me as if that's what he's doing.
Crocodile: yes, I'm aware of that misconception, and it's not my reason. Like I said, perhaps the other way around makes more sense.
Seastone: I'm still not sure of it, because to me it never seemed like it actually did that, but merely replicated the sea's effect which seems the most logical, until that scene in the war. I still think that that could be the inconsistency, the diversion from the rule… but, we probably can't be entirely certain with the current evidence, and perhaps you're right that Oda will never decide on an absolute rule that is never broken or bent.
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Nice posts Brennen, thanks for posting them. I like your theory about Oda's fluxuations in playing with the rules, such as they are, dealing with devil fruits. I suspect, as you say, that he will chose to keep some things "mysterious" more for the sake of flexibility on his part than anything else.
That said, though, I think your question about the landcloud on Jaya (as opposed to the sea cloud) was more or less answered by Oda saying that there is a need to be submerged a certain percentage in water for it to affect a user. Obviously since those clouds are solid, the user is never "submerged," which is all well and good as far as landcloud goes, but leads to more, not less, questions about how seastone actually works, since Luffy sat on Conis' couch for a long stretch, coming in actual physical contact with the material of that couch, and wasn't in the least affected, seemingly. One would think he'd feel something, however small a feeling it was, since theoretically that sort of cloud is a concetrated version–much like seastone is concentrated.
As for the state of a logia, I have my own pet theory, of course, LOL. I first developed and trotted it out for airing on an anime thread discussing Ace's fisting, and why it went through but didn't get to Luffy--if indeed Ace was intangible, etc.
Since we're sharing posts about theories, let me see if I can find a link, LOL. I apologize in advance for the wall of text this represents, and wil be genuinely impressed if you actually wade through the entire thing.
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@I:Look, it may well be that logia cannot use their power to go partial logia–you could be right--but we as of this moment do not know that for sure. Oda has deliberately left a few things rather vague for us as readers and for the crew thus far--one of them is exactly what is so very special about CoC--since all we've seen so far that has definitively been stated as CoC is making fodder pass out and foam at the mouth, yet everyone pisses their pants when it comes up–there must be more to it (I have a whole theory on that, too, but I don't assume people care that much about my theories to post it here. I can if anyone wants, though)--and the other is how logia works, exactly. I think there is a method to Oda's madness here. I think Oda is holding that full explanation back, and will continue to do so for some to to come. I hate to sound like a windbag, but I will repeat myself a little here to say I believe that is part of the reason why no logia has thus far joined the crew. If I am right, it will make the end of the series, and the battles with BB and Akainu, all the more entertaining without that knowledge, so we get to see Kitsune's wish, and Luffy uses his own unique genius to figure out how to win against unbeatable odds again.
But back to the point--there is simply a lot we do not know about how logias work. I myself refer to the way other fruits work. They change your body completely somehow, since no matter what you look like, you are a hammer. My best example is that Chopper can go full reindeer and is still a d/f user, so would still be a hammer--but he can also go into several partial shapes that are not fully human or reindeer. We have also seen Ace light just his arm, or his top half, not his full body. We know that with enough practice they can control it to the point of not, in Ace's case, burning the hat he wove for little Oars. We saw Luffy use gear 2 on just his arm recently as well. I don't see it as that much of a stretch that logias, with enough practice and training, could become some interim form, partial element and partial solid.
All that said, however, I am left with Kishido's question, and Lightning Ace's replies referring everyone to the previous page. The question Kishido is asking is why would Ace assume he could shield Luffy if he knows his logia form is always something attacks go right through. He didn't even have the time to push Luffy out of the way, he just stood there and took the punch, like the heroic older brother he was written to be. How did he know that would work?
So we refer to the previous page, where Akainu is stating on that his d/f is stronger, and, as another poster pointed out to me in another thread, Oda has never had a character lie about their d/f in order to trash talk, and even if we doubt that, we got proof when they clashed and Ace got himself burned. No doubt about it, magma beats fire in OP. Kishido, that may in fact be the reason why Ace did it the way he did--he had to go elemental to get to Luffy on time, and having just been burned by Akainu, he knew it would work to shield Luffy.
Thing is, why? Why can magma make Ace solid if he's in his logia state? Every other time this has happened, there has been an explanation that made sense, so we've come to expect that. Water makes sand solid--shaky but yeah, ok. Rubber beats electricity because it doesn't conduct it--solid, so yeah. What is it about magma that makes fire solid? Could be said to smother the fire, since it's partially a liquid, could be that it's melted sand, basically, so that smothers fire too. Fine. A reasonable explanation. We can accept them, if not love them.
@I:
Yes I agree, so here's a link to where I talked about it once before
See? This is where this theory breaks down for me, actually–the making of that hat. I can see that the theory states that Ace can control how his fire spreads with enough practice, and this is how he can prevent the reeds from burning as he weaves them--the problem is that fire is incorporeal--he can't even hold reeds if he is insubstantial, right? He has to be able to be solid at times in order to do things like that, or have an arm wrestling contest with Luffy, or shake someone's hand, or even to hold a weapon. I agree that they are always by default in their logia state, but I take it further and think they need to train to turn solid at some times--because even if they can prevent it from spreading to someone when they touch them, it won't help if they are incorproeal--like light or fire--when they try to hold something or shake someone's hand etc. Can you explain that part? LOL
See I think the pictures we've seen of logia users at different times sort of tell the tale too. We've seen pictures of Ace and other logias where we see their entire bodies, where we see them as completely element, and where they have some of the element showing around their bodies. Not to mention that under certain circumstances they are forced into being solid (water on Croc, use of Seastone cuffs, and magma on fire, for that matter, lol, etc,) which I think negates the powers of the d/f, but doesn't change them from d/f users--I think a d/f user would still sink like a hammer wearing kairoseki cuffs, for example. I don't think that would in effect change the nature of the changes to their bodies, just make the power temporarily paralyzed, if you will.
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All that said, I admit that I rather like your idea about there being a sort of trip wire affect from pain that makes a logia insubstantial, but how would that prevent injury at all? Wouldn't there at the least be some minor damage–a cut or bruise or something, from that moment just prior to becoming elemental?
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@I:
Obviously since those clouds are solid, the user is never "submerged," which is all well and good as far as landcloud goes, but leads to more, not less, questions about how seastone actually works, since Luffy sat on Conis' couch for a long stretch, coming in actual physical contact with the material of that couch, and wasn't in the least affected, seemingly. One would think he'd feel something, however small a feeling it was, since theoretically that sort of cloud is a concetrated version–much like seastone is concentrated.
For the sea cloud vs sea stone concentration comparison, think of it like cotton candy, sea cloud is the fluffy kind whereas sea stone is crunched up cotton candy.
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For the sea cloud vs sea stone concentration comparison, think of it like cotton candy, sea cloud is the fluffy kind whereas sea stone is crunched up cotton candy.
I think you are misunderstanding my post a little. In Skypeaia, there were two sorts of cloud–"water" or "sea" cloud, in which, we learned, Luffy was just as much of a hammer as regular blue sea water, and a more solid form, called "land" cloud, iirc, found in islands and used to make buildings and furniture etc, which, we were told, was a more concentrated form of seacloud. So as interesting an analogy as your crunched up cotton candy idea is, it doesn't explain why a more concentrated form of seacloud wouldn't affect a user at least a little, since it is concentrated, as, we are told, is seastone. Does that make my question clearer?
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I may be wrong on this but I going try to help out. Sea Clouds and Island clouds are made when pyrobloin, an element in seastone, is ejected into the air and is combined with water vapor. Thats why the sea clouds effect Devil Fruit users and in theory isalnd clouds should effect them to. But as you said before Island clouds make up buildings and many things on Skypiea so Devil Fruit users should be effected by it. As we know they are not.
This could be explained by the fact that when Island clouds are cut and processed to make the buildings and what now, they turn into artificial cloud products. So based on that I don't if stuff is taken out of them while being processed or stuff is added in that get rid of the Pyrobloin.
The Milky Roads in Skypiea are also made up of Island Clouds. So that could mean that if someone found proof that a Devil Fruit user feel into a Milky Road, probably a Straw Hat, and were unable to swim due to it. Then it could be some sort of evidence.
I apologize if I have the wrong information.
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Well… Luff IS unable to swim in a milky road. I mean, it's filled with water.
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Guys…it's a manga. Chill out with the physics of it.
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. In fact, some portions of that rule might restrict him too much, so exceptions and mistakes are made. Mr.3 was found floating in water. Luffy's body still stretches underwater. A seastone jutte hurt Luffy a lot. Chopper reverted to his hybrid form. Etc, etc.
For Mr3 I agree (and so Oda had to find a way to explain this on a sbs :ninja:). But for Luffy's body which still stretches underwater, it's not an exception, nor a mistake…water make devil fruit users weak and so they can't use their power by themselves, it doesn't made them normal being. What turns devil fruit user into "normal being" is Blackbeard power.
And same for Chopper, his hybrid form is more or less his normal for so I guess it's normal for to turn into this form when he faints. -
@Monkey:
For Mr3 I agree, but for Luffy's body which still stretches underwater, it's not an exception, nor a mistake…water make devil fruit users weak and so they can't use their power by themselves, it doesn't made them normal being.
Uhh, well, that's actually what we've been arguing these past few pages. So, in context, I was referring to Luffy's body stretching underwater being the only example in the entire series where a fruit user maintains bodily properties underwater. This goes back to whether or not the sea itself and seastone are truthfully the same. If they are, seastone cuffs would do nothing to Luffy. That is to say, he can still move around and his body still stretches, so he could just pull his hand out or continue fighting like normal without hindrance.
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That is to say, he can still move around and his body still stretches, so he could just pull his hand out or continue fighting like normal without hindrance.
Not entirely true; he'd still be weakened from them. If my idea of different degrees/concentration of seastone is true, the cuffs probably weaken the user to the point where they can still walk, but not do much more than that (like fight). It seems to me as if that's what the WG would want.
On the contrary, if the sea and seastone always does the same thing then no DF user would be able to walk with cuffs on. So if Luffy can stretch with seastone cuffs, and also walk… then that would seem to lean toward my idea of them doing the same thing, but the cuffs are intentionally made not to completely immobilize the DF user, just as merely being partially submerged would do. If he can't stretch, but can walk, then seastone simply is different from the sea and does fully 'remove' DF powers, but the cuffs are still probably of a lesser concentration since he's not immobilized, so a combination (or maybe you agree with the exposure thing? Sorry if you do and I missed it). Finally, if he can't walk or stretch then Survived's got the right idea.
We really need to see Luffy put on a pair of seastone cuffs, in other words, to clear out this whole mess >_>
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Uhh, well, that's actually what we've been arguing these past few pages. So, in context, I was referring to Luffy's body stretching underwater being the only example in the entire series where a fruit user maintains bodily properties underwater. This goes back to whether or not the sea itself and seastone are truthfully the same. If they are, seastone cuffs would do nothing to Luffy. That is to say, he can still move around and his body still stretches, so he could just pull his hand out or continue fighting like normal without hindrance.
Oups, my bad so ^^;;..Well if I had to guess, I'd say that seastone works like the universal weakness for all the devil fruit users. So for exemple hitting Crocodile with it would be like hitting him with something soaked or hitting Ener with it would be like hitting him with some latex.
And I don't know if with seastone cuffs, Luffy would still be a rubberman, but even if it was the case he wouldn't be able to stretch by himself I think.
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I explain the seastone differences like this:
Seastone is pretty rare right? But how can so many things be made of steastone then, you ask.
The answer is simple: It's not 100% seastone.
The cuffs on Robin that wouldn't make her weaker but only take away her devilfruit powers were probably not made of 100% seastone.
While the tip of Smokers lance was made of 100%, the same with the bars at Crocodile's cage.That's how I explain it.
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@Sonic:
Seastone is pretty rare right?
[hide]@brennen.exe:
I have said this before, but I really don't think seastone is "rare". At least, not in the sense that people assume it is. It is isolated to one area, like Smoker said in Alabasta, and the World Government certainly seems to have control of that area, so the rest of the world does not have it at their disposal. In that sense, yeah, it is rare. There could be TONS of it; there likely is tons of it. It's just that, from what we know, the Marines and the World Government have complete control of where and how it is used; thus pirates not having easy access to it. Likely it is a black market item.
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Not necessarily, no.
Smoker: The end of this club is made of something called "Seastone". A mysterious stone that only exists in a certain sea…
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I kind of like the idea that the WG uses Akainu's Devil Fruit power to harvest seastone after Conis' father mentioned… something about it and volcanoes. I don't remember what it was, maybe that wouldn't be possible, but if it is... it's a cool theory.
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Maybe they have control of a sky island and get it from there however it might even just be one of the blue seas before the grand line or maybe a sea stone island.
I kind of like the idea that the WG uses Akainu's Devil Fruit power to harvest seastone after Conis' father mentioned… something about it and volcanoes. I don't remember what it was, maybe that wouldn't be possible, but if it is... it's a cool theory.
Maybe it's inside volcano's and Akainu goes inside and gets it because he is not effected by the magma
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@Sonic:
Seastone is pretty rare right? But how can so many things be made of steastone then, you ask.
Don't think of rare as "rare", but as "expensive".
And the WG has an almost unlimited amount of money. Offering 400mio Berry as bounty proves that.
So I can't see any problem with that… -
Well, the point stands, that seastone cuffs are maybe not made of 100% seastone.
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Seastone may just have its own soul or something like everything else in the manga does. Therefore it works situationally. There's really no other good explanation I can think of as to why Smoker couldn't get out of Croc's cage in Arabasta.
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If you touch em seastone you normal foo'
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I think there's an island somewhere in the new world made entirely of sea stone. Also the minute Smoker said that sea stone "mysteriously" has the properties of the ocean i knew there was some kind of mystery or something involved. I think it's an island in the new world, and I sense a really good arc that'll be coming up.
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@Sonic:
If you touch em seastone you normal foo'
But Luffy wasn't normal when he was in the water in Arlong Park. His body could still stretch.
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But Luffy wasn't normal when he was in the water in Arlong Park. His body could still stretch.
Yea, it doesnt turn off your powers it just makes you unable to move, meaning that you will drown. Luffy's body was still and will always have the properties of rubber. Even underwater. It was stated that df users become DEAD WEIGHTS in water, meaning that they can't move, which means that they're doomed unless someone saves them.
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Imma talkin' slangy doesn't mean imma hangin' nowatamsayin'?
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About the seastone, let's say that the power that affects the DF users comes from the pyrobloin. That's because the sea clouds have the same power as the sea, and that's the only explanation to it. Because the clouds are mainly water, they don't affect the DF users as strongly as seastone. The reason that island clouds don't have the same effect as the sea clouds is that people just walks on them, so they touch them with a small area. DF users can also walk in shallow water without losing their powers for same reason.
Pagaya said that the pyrobloin comes to sky by volcanic eruptions. It means that seastone isn't the only thing in earth that contains it. Let's say that the water has pyrobloin too. The reason why the sea is different from the seastone is that the pyrobloin density is lower, so the DF users only lose the control of their powers. And the reason why the sea doesn't look like clouds is that it contains more water than the air.
Seastone then is composed mainly of pyrobloin. Because the density is high, the DF users lose their powers completely. I don't think that it drains the energy of the DF user, because if I recall right Luffy is the only one who has act like that. In the chapter 175 Luffy said that he was feeling powerless when the water was reaching his upper body like when touching the seastone bars. Still he was able to beat the giant crocodile moments later. It may have been a gag, or Oda changed the concept of seastone later, but no one else has feel powerless when touching seastone (correct if I'm wrong).
And the reason why Smoker couldn't escape from the cell is that the seastone emits the same energy as the sea. That's why he couldn't go between the bars, because the power of seastone reached there.
Well, that's just an another theory and it's not flawless, but had to post it here.
Enel did. His words were essentially the exact same as Luffy's:
"Ener: I see… I can hardly move...!!"
Compared to Luffy:
"Luffy: What the…? I can barely move...!!"
It just seems odd that we're supposed to think of seastone as a solidified form of the sea if it does essentially the complete opposite of what the sea does – doesn't drain their energy, but DOES completely remove Devil Fruit powers.
Oh, how could I forget that? But well, as I said, it's not a flawless theory.
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no one else has feel powerless when touching seastone
Enel did. His words were essentially the exact same as Luffy's:
"Ener: I see… I can hardly move...!!"
Compared to Luffy:
"Luffy: What the…? I can barely move...!!"
It just seems odd that we're supposed to think of seastone as a solidified form of the sea if it does essentially the complete opposite of what the sea does – doesn't drain their energy, but DOES completely remove Devil Fruit powers.
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To not be able to move ? thats what you think The Seastone Effect on DF user ?
I don't think its a Flawless theory since Handcuffed-Robin was able to Ran away from Spanda Many times.
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Hence the theory that cuffs are created with a different concentration of seastone, or something like that. Otherwise, do you think that Luffy would have to be carried around if he was cuffed with seastone? Maybe he would. But that just sounds odd to me. And do you think it's a mere coincidence that Oda had Enel repeat essentially verbatim what Luffy said when he was exposed to seastone? Or that he showed a picture of Enel's foot holding down Zoro's head becoming weaker so that Zoro could slip away? Also, look at this quote:
"Ener: {Seastone?! The rock that saps strength from those with Powers…!!!}"
Now, seastone also inhibits Devil Fruit powers. Perhaps in the same manner as the sea - merely making the user unable to use them - or perhaps to a greater extent aka the Yami Yami no Mi. But it certainly seems VERY much as if it indeed "saps the strength" from DF users, just as the sea does.
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OMG reading over and over that there's a connection between Seastone and Volcanos makes me wonder now if there'll be some part of the story affected by teh close proximity of that under water volcano that the SHs ran into on their way in. If teh island wasn't controlled by a pirate, I's swear the candy shop was secretly a seastone factory! Something hinkey is definitley going on with that factory, though, and a volcano nearby jsut seems so… convenient, know-what-I-mean?
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A few senseless questions.
How fast can marco fly, in his hybrid phoenix form and in his full phoenix form, and how long, like could he fly from the west blue to the east blue?
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@ShenLong:
A few senseless questions.
How fast can marco fly, in his hybrid phoenix form and in his full phoenix form, and how long, like could he fly from the west blue to the east blue?
About as fast as an unladen African swallow. Which means it would take him about two days to travel over Reverse Mountain and the Redline assuming he is not carrying any coconuts.
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So he's incredibly fast, but how long can he flight?
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Ultimate Devil Fruit:
What if it is a Akuma Akuma No Mi(Turn into the Devil)! -
Could be a Mythical Zoan type devil fruit.
Back to my questions.
So Marco can fly very fast, but how long can he fly, does he have to rest or could he fly the whole time because his wings are made out of fire?
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His ability to fly should be no different than any characters ability to run or swim. No set limit, its all dependent on his stamina.
Being a Yonkou's first mate would make his stamina very high. He tangoed with all the admirals without showing fatigue while Rayleigh(the old timer who swam across a sea) got tired facing one for a short time. Marco's should be able to fly for a very long time.
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About as fast as an unladen African swallow. Which means it would take him about two days to travel over Reverse Mountain and the Redline assuming he is not carrying any coconuts.
Good thing you specified what type of swallow, otherwise this could have gotten confusing.
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I think he's just like a regular phoenix, he can fly forever. He's just gotta have some kind of weakness though. I think he's more of a logia than a zoan, since everything like goes thru him.
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I'm not sure if it's mistranslation but Pell mentioned that there are only five DF's which enable one to fly. He and Marco are the only ones shown thus far who have shown that ability. Is it just limited to bird zoans perhaps?
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As I recall he said five known Devil Fruits that grants flight. Probably so Oda would have however much wiggle room he wanted. I'd guess that he basically limits it to bird Zoans, though… and, perhaps, Shiki's fruit? He was even called the flying pirate, after all. Lafitte's fruit could be another.
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I just have a qucik question about the Doku Doku no mi, Venom-Venom Fruit. You know how Magellan eats poisoned food and ends up getting stuck in the bathroom for 10 hours a day due to it? Does he choose to eat the food because he can or does he need to due to the powers of his fruit? Like does he eat poisoned food to put poison inside is body?
Thank you to anyone that answers.
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I just have a qucik question about the Doku Doku no mi, Venom-Venom Fruit. You know how Magellan eats poisoned food and ends up getting stuck in the bathroom for 10 hours a day due to it? Does he choose to eat the food because he can or does he need to due to the powers of his fruit? Like does he eat poisoned food to put poison inside is body?
Thank you to anyone that answers.
From what I got from that explanation, Magellan eats poison to make his own poison more potent.
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As I recall he said five known Devil Fruits that grants flight. Probably so Oda would have however much wiggle room he wanted. I'd guess that he basically limits it to bird Zoans, though… and, perhaps, Shiki's fruit? He was even called the flying pirate, after all. Lafitte's fruit could be another.
Pell was referring to Devil Fruits whose main power is flight. I mean, that the user's main power is flight. So Shiki's fruit is not among these five flying Devil Fruits, since he cannot fly himself unless he attaches to himself something, like his swords.
So the only flying Devil Fruits we've seen so far are Pell's, Marco's and Laffite's.