I'm not even sure it's a Devil's Fruit. For all we know, he mastered Life Return and can do Buddha-like abilities.
Theories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread
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Shockwaves can come from a bronze gong. The shockwave picture showed his hand vibrating. The texture of the picture of his giant from looks like a bronze statue. Size is symbolism because of Buddhist statues are very often bronze. Did you even read any thing I've read? Look at the picture of him. He's metal. Are you just trolling me or something?
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Oda isn't a retard, he wouldn't put something as silly as kind of statue as a fruit power. A fruit power that also has random other powers, except for the ones that are the sole basis of the whole character to begin with.
Plus I get the impression he thinks religion is pretty stupid so he likes to poke fun at it.
You can't even understand what I'm explaining after I've reiterated it several times, so I'm just going to ignore you unless you come up with a decent point. -
[hide]
I'm out. Troll.
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Well I think I made a fairly concise and valid argument.
The powers match. The symbolism matches. It's textbook Oda. The Enel parallels. Nothing else fits.
I'm half convinced half of you are just trolling or can't see the forest for the trees.If you'd like to, go ahead and drop something else it could be that makes any iota of sense.
Your argument consists of "lolno", so I think I'm done here.I don't have anything else to substitute for your theory, but I feel it's a bit of a long shot that he's a bronze logia. You might have been over thinking things. Then again you might be completely right, you never know with Oda, and if I'm wrong then ok I can admit that when the time comes. And if I think of another theory, I'll let you know.
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We are trying to make you think that this particular paramecia has very peculiar powers, that aren't in line with other known paramecias, the way that you (the people in the "Daibuddha fruit" camp) are interpreting are in line with a zoan.
And if the shockwave is indeed Haki, then it would be haki, him being the reincarnation of buddha or a giant bronze statue.
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Plus I get the impression he thinks religion is pretty stupid so he likes to poke fun at it.
That makes a lot of sense actually. Maybe Oda is an atheist. Hope so.
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This post is deleted!
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@Superbear:
LOL I hope you're not talking to me.
Who else.
@Superbear:So sand and ice aren't solids??? WTF
You can punch right through them and they reform. You can't punch through bronze. What is it with you and pointless semantics (and lame parodies for that matter)?
Was one of the Buddha's abilities "turn into a giant metal man"?
Show me where he's metal. It could easily be a giant fruit for all we know.
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Who else.
You can punch right through them and they reform. You can't punch through bronze. What is it with you and pointless semantics (and lame parodies for that matter)?
Show me where he's metal. It could easily be a giant fruit for all we know.
You can't punch through blackbeard ( or akainu without your arm melting off). zoro can probably cut him, since bronze is weaker than iron.. so if he's bronze and anything less than a Logia any upper tier swordsman could kill him pretty easily. what are you even talking about, pointless semantics and lame parodies?
the texture is the same as a pic I just posted like 4 posts ago, and that's how Oda draws metal sometimes. I know you'll saw well that's just shading, but it was broad daylight.And I'm sorry if I am coming across as a dick to everyone, I didn't mean that. I just wanted to make my argument.
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I think you have a good possibility to be right, grunk. It seems to have very strange traits for a logia but that is only because we've never seen a solid state logia actually making their element like we have with the liquid/gas logias (Aokiji has only frozen other liquids or people, never made blocks of ice out of nothing).
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grunk's arguments are hilarious.
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You can't punch through blackbeard ( or akainu without your arm melting off).
Blackbeard is stated to be the sole exception to the logia intangibility rule. Akainu is intangible, just because you'd get horrifcally brunt doesn't mean he's not intangible. One of the sole defining features of logia is their intangibility, which Sengoku lacks.
zoro can probably cut him, since bronze is weaker than iron.. so if he's bronze and anything less than a Logia any upper tier swordsman could kill him pretty easily.
This has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
what are you even talking about, pointless semantics and lame parodies?
It must be fun, walking in on other people's conversations mid way and going "dah, what you guys talking aboout? me no understand. :sad:"
the texture is the same as a pic I just posted like 4 posts ago, and that's how Oda draws metal sometimes. I know you'll saw well that's just shading, but it was broad daylight.
You have no proof it's metal whatsoever, it could be literally anything.
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A normal person couldn't punch through Akainu or Aokiji. It would take more to damage bronze but it's not impossible. Zoro could cut bronze easily for example. Have you 0 reading comprehension?
I'm sick of your arguments. Just wait and see. Go back and read my previous posts, I explained how it could be metal but you just completely ignore them.Just wait and see. There probably won't be a clear reveal for years so I'm not wasting my time arguing with childish idiots like you over something like this.
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A normal person couldn't punch through Akainu or Aokiji. It would take more to damage bronze but it's not impossible. Zoro could cut bronze easily for example.
Have you 0 reading comprehension?
Cause it looks like you do? I hate people who completely miss the point. Slow talk time:
Akainu and Aokiji are intangible. Imagine if they were't hot or cold. Your fist would punch right through the shattery icey stuff and come out the other side. Your fist would also punch through the gooey magma and come out the other side. You can do this if your a normal guy. with no super strength or powerups. Now look at Bronze. Bronze cannot be punched through gasp because it's a solid object. It cannot be punched through in the same way trees cannot be punched and rocks cannot be punched through. With super strength you can blast through bronze, but that doesn't mean the bronze is intangible. It means you have super strength. Thus all references to zoro cutting through bronze are irrelevant.
It amazes me how you cannot grasp this simple concept.
I'm sick of your arguments. Just wait and see. Go back and read my previous posts, I explained how it could be metal but you just completely ignore them.
No you didn't, you said "It looks like metal to me, derefore it is!". You have proved nothing.
I mean, your theories not utterly impossible, he could have a bronze paramecia or something similar. But not a logia.
Just wait and see. There probably won't be a clear reveal for years so I'm not wasting my time arguing with childish idiots like you over something like this.
hot tip: When you have no arguments but "Just wait and see" it's a subtle hint that your position is fairly bad.
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No you're the idiot who just popped up from nowhere and in 2 min created and believed a lame ass theory based on speculation in this thread.
Go back and read the manga again, because in logias, you failed pretty hard to understand them.
You :
-can't even notice that his hair changed into something like grapes (just like daibutsu)
-think people can't punch through magma and ice (true they'll be frozen/burned) but hell ? those are logia, so aside BB it's f***ing intangible.
If Senoku was a logia everyone could punch/cut trough and it'll reform after.Thus while punching Luffy, his hand/arm would have gone trouh too (like any logia aside again from BB)
But no we have 0 reading comprehension, sorry we're too dumb for you.
As you said, wait and see.
Chapters will prove how wrong you were
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I figured Airflow would have to explain the difference between Akainu and Blackbeard.
I don't know why some don't get it. A normal person not being able to hit through them is irrelevant when the point is that BB is literally the exception to logia users who are all intangible even if their element is a solid.
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It's hard to follow all this discussion as there is a lot of sniping in between it but the basic idea is that Sengoku has a bronze logia fruit.
Which is no. If Sengoku has any fruit at all, it is a zoan since he increased in size, paramecia and logia fruits don't do that.(Correct me if there are some)
Bronze can't be a zoan unless it's like a golem or something. -
It's hard to follow all this discussion as there is a lot of sniping in between it but the basic idea is that Sengoku has a bronze logia fruit.
Which is no. If Sengoku has any fruit at all, it is a zoan since he increased in size, paramecia and logia fruits don't do that.(Correct me if there are some)
Bronze can't be a zoan unless it's like a golem or something.Yeah he has a Zoan who looks nothing like a animal
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So, people are dismissing the bronze Logia because Sengoku didn't produce bronze?
Then Akainu musn't be a Logia because He didn't Produce Lava!
And that he didn't let an attack through.. of all the 0 attacks directed at him during the war.
Logia invulnerability isn't just "let an attack go through" but "tank the attack on my element and let it's properties merge together and reform me"
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Yeah he has a Zoan who looks nothing like a animal
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Now i'm even more confused about it.:wassat:
Did it mention he had one? Because now i'm thinking he does'nt.So, people are dismissing the bronze Logia because Sengoku didn't produce bronze?
Then Akainu musn't be a Logia because He didn't Produce Lava!
And that he didn't let an attack through.. of all the 0 attacks directed at him during the war.
Logia invulnerability isn't just "let an attack go through" but "tank the attack on my element and let it's properties merge together and reform me"
Logia's can't grow several sizes bigger. All it does is makes the body into an element. And saying bronze is an element is a stretch when mr.1's steel fruit is'nt
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So, people are dismissing the bronze Logia because Sengoku didn't produce bronze?
Then Akainu musn't be a Logia because He didn't Produce Lava!
Ummm he produced magma, if you want to be technical.
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Logia's can't grow several sizes bigger. All it does is makes the body into an element. And saying bronze is an element is a stretch when mr.1's steel fruit is'nt
Why am I dragging myself back into this..
Mr 1's fruit is "supa supa" which is a Japanese onomonopia of the sound a knife makes so it's a "slice" fruit moreso than a "steel" fruit.Logia growth, it's been shown to happen before. The other God figure, Enel did this just before Luffy beat him.
Akainu and Ace have also both made giant arms, and Smoker has turned into a giant cloud thing which he arguably could have made into a more humanoid form.And while it is metal, its still a fairly malleable thing- much more so than iron or steel, and produces little friction.. and while it's far fetched a metal Logia could work it would make the most sense to be this. I was skeptical about it too until I started looking into it but it adds up for me.. I dunno. Gold might work too though.
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From the Chapter Discussion thread:
@Twopiece:Don't blame me for this theory!
It's really funny xD
On a other forum they got this:
Sabo= Noble
Jewerly Bonny= Akainu wanted Bonny= Bonny is maybe a noble
Thanks to Ivankov Sabo turned into Jewerly Bonny.I do not think Bonney is Sabo because Bonney really didn't like Luffy after he hit the Tenryuubito.
@Stephen:Bonney: So it turns out that dingleberry
had an even BIGGER dingleberry for a captain!!!
If I run into them in the New World,
I'm gonna CRUSH those buffoons!!!
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter504.txtNot something you'd say about your brother, right?
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It's hard to follow all this discussion as there is a lot of sniping in between it but the basic idea is that Sengoku has a bronze logia fruit.
Which is no. If Sengoku has any fruit at all, it is a zoan since he increased in size, paramecia and logia fruits don't do that.(Correct me if there are some)
Bronze can't be a zoan unless it's like a golem or something.Well, there's no saying that paramecias can't increase in size. One of the BW chicks (Valentine?) increased in weight, so volume isn't too much different. As far as zoans go, could there be a giant giant fruit, like Chopper's human human fruit?
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Saying Mr 1. had a slice fruit seems like flawed logic. COnsider buggy's fruit is the chop fruit and Enels was the rumble fruit. Names of fruits seem to be mostly play on words that relate to what they are, and nothing more. Bronze would be a paramecia, just like rubber and steel. The only Logia that can be hurt normally is Blackbeard. The other Logia can all shift away from attacks. Sand and snow are solid, but both of them are collections of many, many small solids. Trying to break sand will just have hte sand shift away, but won't really damage the sand. Trying to break bronze can actually work, and destroy it, so bronze could not be a logia
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Logia's can't grow several sizes bigger. All it does is makes the body into an element. And saying bronze is an element is a stretch when mr.1's steel fruit is'nt
<insert enel's="" final="" form="" here=""><tries to="" go="" find="" a="" periodic="" table="" of="" elements="" and="" remembers="" that,="" in="" fact,="" bronze="" isn't="" an="" element="">Oh.. neither is magma, ice, sand…</tries></insert>
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<insert enel's="" final="" form="" here=""><tries to="" go="" find="" a="" periodic="" table="" of="" elements="" and="" remembers="" that,="" in="" fact,="" bronze="" isn't="" an="" element="">Oh.. neither is magma, ice, sand…</tries></insert>
Nor is Fire, actually.
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What the hell, elements in physics ?
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The logia fruits I have always taken to a natural force; they harness the nature of the "element" they are and bend it to their methods. Bronze is a creation of man from copper and tin, to have a bronze man you would need a tin man and a copper man who could use their powers together.
As for the ability to grow in size and being a logia, enel (as according to his one piece wiki page) grew in size by making his body into pure electricity. The only other case (correct me if I'm wrong) of a logia fully becoming their "element" is crocodile who turned into a sandstorm which was in terms an increase of his size. This may be coincidence but it also may mean the full transformation of a logia into their element will result in a dramatic size increase which would suggest Sengoku to be a logia but not of a bronze type.
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I am very sure that Logias are Nature Elements ….. not Periodic Table of Elements. And I'm pretty sure Bronze doesn't exist naturally as it's a man-made metal (copper and tin alloy)
edit- Tundras beat me to it ^_^
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The logia fruits I have always taken to a natural force; they harness the nature of the "element" they are and bend it to their methods. Bronze is a creation of man from copper and tin, to have a bronze man you would need a tin man and a copper man who could use their powers together.
As for the ability to grow in size and being a logia, enel (as according to his one piece wiki page) grew in size by making his body into pure electricity. The only other case (correct me if I'm wrong) of a logia fully becoming their "element" is crocodile who turned into a sandstorm which was in terms an increase of his size. This may be coincidence but it also may mean the full transformation of a logia into their element will result in a dramatic size increase which would suggest Sengoku to be a logia but not of a bronze type.
Both ace and smoker grew in size when they fought each other in alabasta by turning into their elements.
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Just to add my opinion, I think that Sengoku has a mythic zoan. For no complex reason. Just seems sensible to me.
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Just to add my opinion, I think that Sengoku has a mythic zoan. For no complex reason. Just seems sensible to me.
trust me man it is
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Just to add my opinion, I think that Sengoku has a mythic zoan. For no complex reason. Just seems sensible to me.
It's more sensible than a Buddha Paramecia. (and somewhat the bronze logia)
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Do we know that mythic DFs exist?
So far we only know mythic ZOAN DFs exist.And i guess Buddha can`t be a Zoan.
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Why would Buddha be a paramecia? That makes no sense. A buddha fruit being a mythical zoan makes more sense to me. Just not buddha in the original sense from India. Besides which, a buddha zoan could be somewhat similar to Chopper's fruit
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logia is obviously elements of NATURE itself, such as wind, ice, water, fire, sand or w/e u wanna put in here that is somewhat related to that.
i bet sengoku doesnt have a fruit, but some kind of monk technique like urouge's (he growed stronger when fighting the pacifista), on a way more overpowered lvl. Same as his "fist beams" which are purelly haki/air from his badass punch. The nickname Buddha somehow seems to me an indicative of that.
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Daibutsu paramecia.
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I'm still confused as to how a buddha paramecia would work. It makes no sense, unless the appearance is just a coincidence. Honestly, Paramecia that effect the body like that wseem to be permanently active as well, so a shift between forms seems to point towards Zoan to me
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Truth is Oda could make Sengoku's fruit pretty much anything except a logia. I mean, we got Kuma with Paw Paw fruit that…shoots compressed air waves.
yeah...
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Honestly, none of these theories really makes sense (Buddha paramecia, zoan, or bronze logia.) We didn't see enough of his powers to make a really conclusion either. Even though he resigned, I hope we get to see a bit more of his fruit. Or that Oda answers this in a SBS.
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Akainu and Aokiji are intangible. Imagine if they were't hot or cold. Your fist would punch right through the shattery icey stuff and come out the other side. Your fist would also punch through the gooey magma and come out the other side. You can do this if your a normal guy. with no super strength or powerups. Now look at Bronze. Bronze cannot be punched through gasp because it's a solid object. It cannot be punched through in the same way trees cannot be punched and rocks cannot be punched through. With super strength you can blast through bronze, but that doesn't mean the bronze is intangible. It means you have super strength. Thus all references to zoro cutting through bronze are irrelevant.
It amazes me how you cannot grasp this simple concept.
first of all:
1 the above quote is nothing personal against airflow, I just like to use this part as it a good explanation of the "intangible argument" people use to say sengoky can't have a bronze logia
2 I dont actually believe sengoku has a bronze logia, I just got annoyed by this theorie because it sounds all though out and scientific, while it isn
t. So I decided to put a big red cross through it.Now for my reasoning. You say it can't be bronze because bronze is not intangible? Neither is ice. Sure you can punch through a piece of ice that's only a couple of centimeters thick but anything over a couple of inches (don
t kill this argument over the exact measurements, I haven't tested it) will give you some serious trouble. For certain a tree made out of ice would be just as hard to punch through as a regular tree. In a certain way the same goes for sand, I would like a forum wide applause for the first person here to punch straight through a reasonably sized pile of sand (no digging! I has to be a clean punch). So bronze is a lot thougher than sand or ice? Make it thin enough and you
ll be able to punch through. The question is where one draws the line and only oda knows that.Now the reforming, people have noted that bronze can't be a logia because it can't reform itself. Neither can ice, it needs a shift in temperatures from warm to melt the ice to cold to freeze it back together in order to completely reform. Sand is kind of in the middle here, since to the human eye its never really in one piece anyway. Smoke, fire, electricity and light follow the rule of being able to reform without outside aid perfectly but since oda has already broken that for logia's when he introduced us to ice, why not bend the rules a little further for bronze?
So now that this argument is well out of our way, I`m going to go with a mythical zoan fruit. It's possible since buddha is a bit of a legend and if the concept phoenix can exist withing the world of one piece, so can buddha. Also I support any effort by oda to come up with a new type of zoan (ancient, awakened, mythical) and actually use it more then one damn freaking time! It seems like every now and then oda gets bored with the way devil fruits currently work and invents a loophole to use them in new ways. Also this does not apply to zoan's only(bronze anyone? :P) and it's good, because it keeps us interested and discussing. But it wont hurt to use a new set of rules more then just once.
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The thing about Ice is that Aokiji's physical form seems to be more snow (which has the same type of many small things quality as sand) than ice, which is how he reforms when you look at it
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Logias - elements (no physics please, the magic and other stuff ones)
Zoans - Animals (human included) not to forget the awakened ones.
Paramecia - everything else (material/tangible elements/actions/disasters…etc)Sengoku may be :
-an awakened Buddha zoan that turn him into a Daibutsu (since buddha can't become huge)
-a Daibutsu paramecia with the attributes of Buddha (THE Buddha, Gautama) or a Buddha Paramecia since we don't know anything about paramecias.We know there's high class Logias and ancient/mythical zoans (awakened trough trainning i assume). So we could easily have a special sub class in the paramecias.
Who would have tought there's an earthquake paramecia ?
I mean it could be the most powerful DF type, it's so varied out there.
Disasters(gura), action(nikyu), state(noro), material(gomu) and others.
That's why it's safe to go with the paramecia type.
Daibutsu paramecia.
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Technically, Buddha's in One Piece could be different than buddhas in our buddhism, considering One Piece doesn't take place on Earth. Thus, Buddhas in One Piece may have been a race of wise, large people which would explain the growing. Also, based on what I know of how paramecia's were named, it's just an alternate character reading of the japanese word for superhuman. So Paramecia's are types of superhumans who don't fall into the other groups. That said, a power which is specifically a buddha paramecia makes no sense, as that seems more like a zoan. Of course, it's also possible the resemblence to a buddha is completely coincidental.
Also the abilities of THE buddha is a stupid idea. For one thing One Piece doesn't take place on Earth, so he didn't exist there. FOr another, he is enlightened, but other than that had no real powers.
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Logias - elements (no physics please, the magic and other stuff ones)
Zoans - Animals (human included) not to forget the awakened ones.
Paramecia - everything else (material/tangible elements/actions/disasters…etc)Sengoku may be :
-an awakened Buddha zoan that turn him into a Daibutsu (since buddha can't become huge)
-a Daibutsu paramecia with the attributes of Buddha (THE Buddha, Gautama) or a Buddha Paramecia since we don't know anything about paramecias.We know there's high class Logias and ancient/mythical zoans (awakened trough trainning i assume). So we could easily have a special sub class in the paramecias.
Who would have tought there's an earthquake paramecia ?
I mean it could be the most powerful DF type, it's so varied out there.
Disasters(gura), action(nikyu), state(noro), material(gomu) and others.
That's why it's safe to go with the paramecia type.
Daibutsu paramecia.
The reasoning for it being a paramecia in your post sounds reasonable. I would support it if not for the fact that it would require creating a new sub class of devil fruits, which I burned down in my previous post :P Your theory is a good one but personal reasons keep me from following it.
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Also the abilities of THE buddha is a stupid idea. For one thing One Piece doesn't take place on Earth, so he didn't exist there.
So why do we have a nun and a cross shaped sepultures ?
Oh OP doesn't take place on Earth, it must be a coincidence…
Irrelevant.
FOr another, he is enlightened, but other than that had no real powers.
http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw28/bk029.html
Props to S.C.Amigo
The reasoning for it being a paramecia in your post sounds reasonable. I would support it if not for the fact that it would require creating a new sub class of devil fruits, which I burned down in my previous post :P Your theory is a good one but personal reasons keep me from following it.
Guess i'll have to say wait and see then ;)
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last I checked, none of those things were said to be christian or have anything. Hell, the whole thing was originally a device used to give slow, painful executions in real life. There is a difference between that type of thing and having a person from our universe exist in another one. Also that thing is Buddhas in general. Not THE buddha, who is entirely different and actually a real historical figure
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So why do we have a nun and a cross shaped sepultures ?
Oh OP doesn't take place on Earth, it must be a coincidence…
Irrelevant.
http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw28/bk029.html
Props to S.C.Amigo
Guess i'll have to say wait and see then ;)
haha its not that I don
t believe you, its that I'm desperatly trying not to because I don't want another super special exclusive! set of devil fruits :P I
m just hoping oda knows that while a lot of people can make something that's pretty to look at when they have all the tools in the world, true artists can make masterpieces using only the given. He has even used this in the story once with Sanji and food(any chef can make something taste good when given all the proper ingredients, but a master chef can make a fine meal using scraps or somerthing..) so I'm guessing he knows. I want him to be original and creative in the given set of rules instead of coming up with new workarounds to the rules he himself created. -
1. Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.
2. Kaidou has a theme of machinery.
3. Teach will beat Shanks.
4. Magellan will be beaten in the coming war after OP is found.