You're making a lot of assumptions about the Marines being incapable of doing what they'd want to throughout the duration that Hancock would be gone. More importantly, you're passing those assumptions on to the characters in the story. Hancock and the Kujas would also have to make those same assumptions, and gamble their very lives on it.
Next Crewmate Discussion (Vol. 4)
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You're making a lot of assumptions about the Marines being incapable of doing what they'd want to throughout the duration that Hancock would be gone. More importantly, you're passing those assumptions on to the characters in the story. Hancock and the Kujas would also have to make those same assumptions, and gamble their very lives on it.
Yes, I'm making assumptions. This thread is entirely based on assumptions, it's just a matter of considering them or not.
After the Ennies Lobby incident, everyone thought the Franky Family would be screwed because they were identified as "strawhat pirates" during the incident. And yet, nothing happened to them.
The idea that Hancock can't join because of Amazon Lily is ridiculous. There are a thousand ways to bypassing that limitation, if Oda's willing to do so. It depends entirely on his plans for Hancock.
Pick your favorite "what if":
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The marines may be too weakened to bother with Amazon Lily;
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Hancock may already warned Elder Nyon about her leaving, and left instructions for her sisters to take charge and make an offer to the government: the Kuja will hunt down Hancock for her betraying the tribe's honor;
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In her time in Marineford, Hancock used her charms to find and sneakly destroy every permanent Log Post that points to Amazon Lily, thus rendering the marines unable to return there;
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The amazons just don't care and get proud of Hancock. With Hancock away, any forces that the government may spare to attack them are easily dispatched, because the top marines are too busy to lead an attack;
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Some future story make the kuja align themselves with Dragon's revolutionaries to get more protection.
Or whatever. The point is: if Hancock joins, the Amazon Lily situation can be dealt easily by Oda.
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You're making a lot of assumptions about the Marines being incapable of doing what they'd want to throughout the duration that Hancock would be gone. More importantly, you're passing those assumptions on to the characters in the story. Hancock and the Kujas would also have to make those same assumptions, and gamble their very lives on it.
Remember what Elder Nyon said, she basically said if Hancock doesn't leave she will die from love sickness. Whether this holds any relevance can be debated.
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Remember what Elder Nyon said, she basically said if Hancock doesn't leave she will die from love sickness. Whether this holds any relevance can be debated.
This can just be negated by having Luffy make some kind of promise with her that he'd return to see her again, which wouldn't be hard to do.
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Yes, I'm making assumptions. This thread is entirely based on assumptions, it's just a matter of considering them or not.
The problem isn't you making assumptions, it's that you're passing those assumptions on to the characters in the story. Them making those assumptions is a lot harder to swallow.
After the Ennies Lobby incident, everyone thought the Franky Family would be screwed because they were identified as "strawhat pirates" during the incident. And yet, nothing happened to them.
The idea that Hancock can't join because of Amazon Lily is ridiculous. There are a thousand ways to bypassing that limitation, if Oda's willing to do so. It depends entirely on his plans for Hancock.
No, it's not ridiculous, and to say that only weakens your argument. While I do agree that there are possible ways around it, it IS a significant obstacle. Amazon Lily has been enemies with the WG for a long time. They won't somehow simply be absolved of their transgressions over the course of centuries. The Franky Family was never enemies of the WG. They had the one single incident, which conveniently for them had their involvement covered up. Covering up a single incident can't possibly protect Amazon Lily. You must be able to see the difference, here.
Pick your favorite "what if":
- The marines may be too weakened to bother with Amazon Lily;
Which the Kuja tribe would have to assume is true and would remain true. They'd assume it at the risk of their very lives.
- Hancock may already warned Elder Nyon about her leaving, and left instructions for her sisters to take charge and make an offer to the government: the Kuja will hunt down Hancock for her betraying the tribe's honor;
This is better. I'm not sure if the WG would buy it so I doubt it, but I can't discount it.
- In her time in Marineford, Hancock used her charms to find and sneakly destroy every permanent Log Post that points to Amazon Lily, thus rendering the marines unable to return there;
Again, the characters would have to be assuming that she didn't miss any at all. At the risk of their very lives.
- The amazons just don't care and get proud of Hancock. With Hancock away, any forces that the government may spare to attack them are easily dispatched, because the top marines are too busy to lead an attack;
This is another possibility that I doubt but can't discount. I don't really get the pride idea, but the concept of her "love sickness" risking her life could be used.
- Some future story make the kuja align themselves with Dragon's revolutionaries to get more protection.
Amazon Lily allying with men? I would be shocked. It's likely that they'll ally with Luffy at the end of the series for this war that Whitebeard foreshadowed, but Dragon doesn't make sense to me.
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No, it's not ridiculous, and to say that only weakens your argument.
Many Strawhats had to sever ties with family, homeland or loved ones to join the crew. The big, final farewell was a part of their initiation into the crew. I see Amazon Lily as that tie that binds Hancock. The fact that the island is threatened can be bypassed.
Assuming that Hancock joins, whatever solution Oda comes with will be a simple one. After all, AL is not the focus of the series. He won't spend a lot of effort trying to make the solution overly complicated.
The reason I pointed the Franky Family's case is because of how simple a solution it was. The FF helped trash Ennies Lobby and identified themselves as pirates. Cover up or not, the government would be interested on the group that helped destroy one of their greatest symbols of power. Instead, Oda chose to bypass the problem, and everyone was fine with that. This is not the Franky Family's story, afterall, and Oda would want Franky to stay behind to protect his family (or the alternative, for Franky to abandon his Family to its fate), so it was easier to just give Franky a bounty and forget about his gang.
I see something similar, but not really equal, here. If Hancock's treason is found, the main offender will be her, not Amazon Lily. AL will continue to be seen as a dangerous place full of pirates, but won't be a prime target. If Hancock returns, then AL will be truly in danger. As long as Hancock stays away from there, the marines won't pay attention to such a minor threat. That's my opinion.
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@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
FAIL for thinking that.
Double FAIL for counting the ship as a crew member.
[hide]http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/548464/80661163.png[/hide]Why wouldn't Blackbeard's crew be finished? The Blackbeard pirates are the anti Strawhats. Luffy wanted a 10 man crew. Blackbeard has a ten men crew; anything else would unbalance the final showdown.
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Why wouldn't Blackbeard's crew be finished? The Blackbeard pirates are the anti Strawhats. Luffy wanted a 10 man crew. Blackbeard has a ten men crew; anything else would unbalance the final showdown.
Thing is, what Luffy said can be read as "ten people under his command" or "ten people including him". From Stephen's scripts:
Luffy: Get it now, you big fish?!
(grin)
Hnnn…!!
First of all, I have to find a crew.
I want ten people!!
And then a pirate flag! -
I see something similar, but not really equal, here. If Hancock's treason is found, the main offender will be her, not Amazon Lily. AL will continue to be seen as a dangerous place full of pirates, but won't be a prime target. If Hancock returns, then AL will be truly in danger. As long as Hancock stays away from there, the marines won't pay attention to such a minor threat. That's my opinion.
They might just disband the shichibukia anyways. They just lost two more members, and really, they've been a much bigger liability than asset.
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They might just disband the shichibukia anyways. They just lost two more members, and really, they've been a much bigger liability than asset.
Funny is, before the war even started I said that probably the world would change so much, the Shichibukai may be disbanded, with the possibility of DoFlamingo, Blackbeard, Jinbei and Hancock betraying the world government. I think DoFla's treason is coming…
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Funny is, before the war even started I said that probably the world would change so much, the Shichibukai may be disbanded, with the possibility of DoFlamingo, Blackbeard, Jinbei and Hancock betraying the world government. I think DoFla's treason is coming…
I don't know about Doflamingo, but the rest of the betrayals already sullies the power behind the Shichibukai. They don't balance anything, and I think they helped Whitebeard more than the World Government. Crocodile needs to also be considered, being a former member and providing this much grief for them with his defeat and now helping fight them (even stopping the execution at one point).
The only two members that were really useful were Mihawk and Kuma, one is always going to be under their power, and the other isn't really going to cause them trouble. I don't see how Oda is going to continue to write the World Government keeping them around, he'd have to find two new members (possibly three), and explain why they are an asset after this total failure in the war (which he probably wanted to use to have the group disbanded anyways).
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I don't know about Doflamingo, but the rest of the betrayals already sullies the power behind the Shichibukai. They don't balance anything, and I think they helped Whitebeard more than the World Government. Crocodile needs to also be considered, being a former member and providing this much grief for them with his defeat and now helping fight them (even stopping the execution at one point).
The only two members that were really useful were Mihawk and Kuma, one is always going to be under their power, and the other isn't really going to cause them trouble. I don't see how Oda is going to continue to write the World Government keeping them around, he'd have to find two new members (possibly three), and explain why they are an asset after this total failure in the war (which he probably wanted to use to have the group disbanded anyways).
I think we will see a new and improved median power between the Marines and the Yonkou, possibly still the Warlords but with much more loyal members, mostly along the lines of Mihawk and Kuma. Whatever is going to happen, I still believe the Marines will be much stronger than they were, they can't just disappear after the war. There always needs to be a unified, law-making body, a government, to try and bring down these pirates. How they will get stronger is up to Oda, but they will.
Slightly off topic but when Whitebeard told Teach he isn't destined to be the Pirate King, how do you think people will react to that?
Even though Teach is s D, he probably doesn't have the King's Spirit, which could help even the playing field when Luffy goes against him, since DF is quite overpowered.
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As for this Amazon Lily talk, it's a pirate nation. It won't be spared whether Hancock is there or not if she's found out or if the WG decides to scrap them and start anew.
The Franky Family got spared due to Aokiji's interference and his moral justice. Akainu is the hero of this war now he aint gonna let shit slide like letting a whole country of pirates go free. Add that to if Kizaru gets pissed off it's over for them. Hancock doesn't have any high ranking marine that'd willingly overlook her transgressions or the existence of her country.
@PirateKingSanji:Why wouldn't Blackbeard's crew be finished? The Blackbeard pirates are the anti Strawhats. Luffy wanted a 10 man crew. Blackbeard has a ten men crew; anything else would unbalance the final showdown.
Luffy(Oda) doesn't count himself as a crew member so if you think the BB pirates are really Anti-SH they're still getting one more member cuz the SHs are still getting 2 more.
I gotta stop assuming everyone should know this by now.
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I think we will see a new and improved median power between the Marines and the Yonkou, possibly still the Warlords but with much more loyal members, mostly along the lines of Mihawk and Kuma. Whatever is going to happen, I still believe the Marines will be much stronger than they were, they can't just disappear after the war. There always needs to be a unified, law-making body, a government, to try and bring down these pirates. How they will get stronger is up to Oda, but they will.
Slightly off topic but when Whitebeard told Teach he isn't destined to be the Pirate King, how do you think people will react to that?
Even though Teach is s D, he probably doesn't have the King's Spirit, which could help even the playing field when Luffy goes against him, since DF is quite overpowered.
I don't think they really need to become that much stronger at all, they will still have Kuma on their side no matter what happens. They have the PX series continually being developed, the admirals, Sengoku, Vice-admirals, and Garp. We didn't see Sengoku or Garp really fight in this war because they probably would have tipped the scales too far in favor of the Marines. Garp fought with the Pirate King and seemed to be his Marine equivalent rival (kind of like Smoker and Luffy), and even Whitebeard seemed to have a "this made things a lot harder" face on when Garp announced his entrance into the battle. The Yonkou aren't going to team up, nor do they seem to want to go war with the World Government, and one versus one the Marines seem to be at least equal to one Yonkou.
I don't think it was meant for people to really have any reaction to it, more like Whitebeards disbelief of Blackbeard spoken out loud. I think it was more of a way to tell the reader what Whitebeard believed about who would be the next Pirate King and another way to foreshadow Luffy's destiny as the PK.
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PX series maybe powerful but they can be destroyed by a group of strong pirates. They either give them some stronger powers or put them out en masse.
I don't see them making them stronger , but easier to produce seems smarter since somebody that is smart could hack them.
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@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
Luffy(Oda) doesn't count himself as a crew member so if you think the BB pirates are really Anti-SH they're still getting one more member cuz the SHs are still getting 2 more.
I gotta stop assuming everyone should know this by now.
QFT…
Too bad to much ignorance is here xD.
And about the PX'es...
We all know Kuma was a revolutionairy, I think he let himself be destroyed for Dragon's cause. How? Maybe Dragon can now control the PX's in the future? What would mean that the Pacifista's would be used against the World Government.. would be pretty cool imo...
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I don't think they really need to become that much stronger at all, they will still have Kuma on their side no matter what happens. They have the PX series continually being developed, the admirals, Sengoku, Vice-admirals, and Garp. We didn't see Sengoku or Garp really fight in this war because they probably would have tipped the scales too far in favor of the Marines. Garp fought with the Pirate King and seemed to be his Marine equivalent rival (kind of like Smoker and Luffy), and even Whitebeard seemed to have a "this made things a lot harder" face on when Garp announced his entrance into the battle. The Yonkou aren't going to team up, nor do they seem to want to go war with the World Government, and one versus one the Marines seem to be at least equal to one Yonkou.
I don't think it was meant for people to really have any reaction to it, more like Whitebeards disbelief of Blackbeard spoken out loud. I think it was more of a way to tell the reader what Whitebeard believed about who would be the next Pirate King and another way to foreshadow Luffy's destiny as the PK.
I understand what your saying. Sengoku isn't Fleet Admiral because he has cool glasses, he's obviously powerful. About Garp, he very well could be the Fleet Admiral if he accepted promotions, and to be equal with THE Pirate King, a man who tied Whitebeard, must have immense power.
I just find it to be a powerful way of foreshadowing, I can't wait to see the worlds reaction and if/what Luffy's new bounty will be.
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If's funny… Some people are writing some weird theories just that Boa can join, But consider Jinbei has lower chances than her just because he is bland. xD
Fishmen island anyone?
Like I said...if Oda comes with an good explanation how Boa can leave the marines now and sail with Luffy without going to AL it will be ok. But I cant see it how she can be save of AL if she betrays the marines and go with Luffy.
Jinbei has story-wise, not character wise, much more chances if you see that FI arc is near
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Your point is also easly done, just by saying that Luffy returns to Amazone Lily. He made a promise ;). So storywise Hancock or Marguerite also still has a chance.
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Your point is also easly done, just by saying that Luffy returns to Amazone Lily. He made a promise ;). So storywise Hancock or Marguerite also still has a chance.
He promised to several people he will come back one day… does it mean now?
There is no point for Luffy to return to AL now... And I doubt the WB-pirates and escapeed will sail to AL -
He promised to several people he will come back one day… does it mean now?
There is no point for Luffy to return to AL now... And I doubt the WB-pirates and escapeed will sail to ALWho said he's going anywhere with the WB pirates? Last chapter, we saw Jimbei running off with Luffy on his own while no one was paying attention. So, my guess is that Jimbei will find a getaway ship that I hope is driven by Hancock that will send them to AL since it's the safest place to be for now especially after this war.
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He promised to several people he will come back one day… does it mean now?
There is no point for Luffy to return to AL now... And I doubt the WB-pirates and escapeed will sail to ALThat's just ignorance… anyways, before they go to Fishman Island he has to find his crew back. And I do see Luffy as a man who keeps his promises. So I expect when the crew is united we get a party at Amazone Lily.
We shall see what is going to happen next chapter... what is going to be the last chapter of the War..
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when WB was talkin about the one who carry now Both Ace and Roger Will, is the one who will find One Piece ….blablabla, At that time JIMBEI was looking at luffy and was like this ".....!", he said in ID he would be on his debt if he freed him, He is so friendly with him, its obivious he will join him.
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I already know you gonna mock my post…:sad:
But assuming the "I am going to come back" from Luffy to Laboon and the name of San Juan (colossal battleship) I think he s a kind of boat man...
And Laboon could join the crew attached to the sunny, boosting its speed and jumping on thousands of pirates and ships...
And fight against San Juan in a final colossal battleship fight!Go on mock me...:sad:
RobitnoX defend me! you who posted the mecha sunny idea please!
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when WB was talkin about the one who carry now Both Ace and Roger Will, is the one who will find One Piece ….blablabla, At that time JIMBEI was looking at luffy and was like this ".....!", he said in ID he would be on his debt if he freed him, He is so friendly with him, its obivious he will join him.
Completely this. Jinbei has far more story with luffy now than Boa it ever had^^
Just because he is a bit bland for some they dislike the idea of him joining.
But we have to wait. I give Boa NOW after seeing her not escaping with them… 10 % and Jinbei 75 %
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@Marquis:
I already know you gonna mock my post…:sad:
But assuming the "I am going to come back" from Luffy to Laboon and the name of San Juan (colossal battleship) I think he s a kind of boat man...
And Laboon could join the crew attached to the sunny, boosting its speed and jumping on thousands of pirates and ships...
And fight against San Juan in a final colossal battleship fight!Go on mock me...:sad:
RobitnoX defend me! you who posted the mecha sunny idea please!
Whey Marquis.
Why we choose Laboon if we have a whale-shark Fishman as an option.
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Whey Marquis.
Why we choose Laboon if we have a whale-shark Fishman as an option.
Well because sperm whale (I searched the word on a dictionnary oh god english is sometimes hilarious) are stronger than sharks…
Now you see that's an argument! -
@Marquis:
Well because sperm whale (I searched the word on a dictionnary oh god english is sometimes hilarious) are stronger than sharks…
Now you see that's an argument!Mermaid Princess is stronger. :p
But that gonna be lame.I wanna Killer Whale or Goblin Shark as a nakama.
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Completely this. Jinbei has far more story with luffy now than Boa it ever had^^
Does he? That's a matter of opinion. I don't see it. Jinbei has not done more than Ivankov, for example. Both Jinbei and Hancock are about equal in "having story with Luffy", but Hancock has the advantage of having a more complex personality and actually having reason to follow Luffy.
Just because he is a bit bland for some they dislike the idea of him joining.
He is a bit bland right now. It can be fixed, of course. Jinbei has not interacted with anyone outside of combat so far.
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Completely this. Jinbei has far more story with luffy now than Boa it ever had^^
Just because he is a bit bland for some they dislike the idea of him joining.
But we have to wait. I give Boa NOW after seeing her not escaping with them… 10 % and Jinbei 75 %
He will also have a good relation with Nami, Why ?
*He is a fishman, and may help her with navigating, with his ability to control water, and speaking to fish.
*Nami used to hate pirates cause of her past and now she is a pirate, Jinbei is known as a Pirate-Hating Pirate
*Nami hated Fishman cause of Arlong, Jinbei is a Fishman.
Btw, Sanji is a leg specialized Fighter, So its time to have a hand Specialit fighter
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@Marquis:
I already know you gonna mock my post…:sad:
But assuming the "I am going to come back" from Luffy to Laboon and the name of San Juan (colossal battleship) I think he s a kind of boat man...
And Laboon could join the crew attached to the sunny, boosting its speed and jumping on thousands of pirates and ships...
And fight against San Juan in a final colossal battleship fight!Go on mock me...:sad:
RobitnoX defend me! you who posted the mecha sunny idea please!
There is no RobitnoX :ninja:
So you think that Laboon would come and help fight San Juan Wolf? I keep up with the Sunny GO Mecha xD.
But I put a defensive parameter around your post so you aren't going to be mocked :ninja:
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PEople are wowndring who would join the SH, hancock or Jinbei ?
its obivious both of them will, Look :
Luffy Defeated 2 shichibukai, so now he will invite 2 shichubukai XD -
@ Deicide
Could you really bear seing a love story on the boat with a neverending love gag between Luffy and Hancock, Sanji's jealousy…
Hancock turning Sanji, Ussop and Franky into stone in every battle???!!! -
@Marquis:
@ Deicide
Could you really bear seing a love story on the boat with a neverending love gag between Luffy and Hancock, Sanji's jealousy…
Hancock turning Sanji, Ussop and Franky into stone in every battle???!!!I think the Straw Hats will learn how to survive Hancock her ability… However Sanji is just lost... anyways, Margueritte for Kuja Nakama~!
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@Marquis:
@ Deicide
Could you really bear seing a love story on the boat with a neverending love gag between Luffy and Hancock, Sanji's jealousy…
Hancock turning Sanji, Ussop and Franky into stone in every battle???!!!Oda is a better writer than that.
If you reduce every Strawhat personality to its most basic characteristics, then everyone would be really boring after a while. You can't expect Hancock's (or anyone's) interactions to stay exactly the same for all eternity.
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Hancock can aim her Mero Mero Beam.
If not, every single Kuja Pirates member will turn into stone when Hancock going to combat.But i think sometimes Sanji will turned into a stone.
Just for gag. -
You can expect things like that for the initial interactions. Just like Luffy felt for Brook's sleep-inducing music, or how Luffy was all happy playing with Robin's abilities when she joined. Everytime a new member joins, there's some exposition of him interacting with the others, but as time goes the more absurd or repetitive interactions are all toned down or sometimes are referenced only in the background.
Just think how many times Nami charged money from the others right after she joined, but this has become rarer as time goes.
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@Marquis:
But assuming the "I am going to come back" from Luffy to Laboon and the name of San Juan (colossal battleship) I think he s a kind of boat man…
And Laboon could join the crew attached to the sunny, boosting its speed and jumping on thousands of pirates and ships...
And fight against San Juan in a final colossal battleship fight!The problem with this idea is that Brook would already have completed his dream.
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The problem with this idea is that Brook would already have completed his dream.
Indeed, and if San juan Wolf is really a ship, then his oppenent is Sunny-Go. cause Sunny is the biggest SH.
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The problem with this idea is that Brook would already have completed his dream.
But do you seriously think that he'd leave the crew if he sees Laboon now?
I.e:
If Zoro Beats Mihawk NOW, would he leave the crew?
If Sanji finds the All Blue NOW, would he leave the crew?
And think about this, the one who gets to Raftel ( and find OP) will discover something that will start a war vs the WG. In raftel lies the Rio Poneglyph, so, do you think Robin would live the crew if she manages to read it? ( I mean, at the time she fullfills her dream?)Now more than uncompleted-dreams keep the crew reunited, i think they'll follow luffy till the end (him dying, disbanding the crew, the end of the Big war, etc)
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Brook will die when he meets Laboon so its going to be at the end.
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But do you seriously think that he'd leave the crew if he sees Laboon now?
Of course not, but it's highly unlikely for Oda to finish his personal story so soon.
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The problem with this idea is that Brook would already have completed his dream.
Yeah but the dream of the rumbar pirates was to meet laboon again after two years and then sail with laboon after he had grown large enough.
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I can play this game too. Their dream was also to meet him after sailing around the world and coming over reverse mountain where he's waiting for them.
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Laboon is too big to fit on the ship (AGOG logic)…
lol Laboon is stuck at the beginning of the GL.... or I thought he was... too big to go forward or backward -
If Jinbei joins he can call Laboon like he did it with his whale sharks xD
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If Jinbei joins he can call Laboon like he did it with his whale sharks xD
But, Laboon is not a fish! :blink:
I was thinking… if Jinbei joins, I think he's the one to fight San Juan Wolf. "Colossal Battleship" vs. "Knight of the Sea". Specially if San Juan is actually a wotan, like some people suggested.
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If Jinbei is to join it will be after the Fishman Island arc.
Nothing about him right now is crewmember like whatsoever.Even then, with WB dead it's more likely he will want to stay in FI and guard it.
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And he was that much able to protect FI before WB protected it and before he became a Shichibukai…
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@Tupac's:
If Jinbei is to join it will be after the Fishman Island arc.
Yeah, I don't think anyone really thinks otherwise.
@Tupac's:
Nothing about him right now is crewmember like whatsoever.
It's more a matter of opinion, but I know what you mean. Fact of the matter is, him and many others involved in the war have not been given enough time to really flesh out. We know he has the resolve of a Strawhat, and he certainly shares a similar moral compass, but much of the other lighthearted features we expect are currently lacking. Understandably so, given the mood of the arc, in my opinion.
@Tupac's:
Even then, with WB dead it's more likely he will want to stay in FI and guard it.
And he was that much able to protect FI before WB protected it and before he became a Shichibukai…
Even given the current situation, I still the notion that Jinbei would stay and protect or guard FI a bit hard to swallow. Part of it is because he alluded to lacking that ability in the past, but more so because he is (especially now) a wanted criminal. His statement from Chapter 529 made it clear that pirates and the Marines that pursued them were the cause of it being torn to shreds. His being there would only attract that same unwanted attention, no? I mean, I don't eliminate the possibility that he just might stay there and protect it… but I would say what we know right now suggests otherwise.