towards the end of the series it'll boil down to a three horse race between Ace, Luffy and BB.
That sounds fairly terrible. Kinda makes me hope Ace dies even more.
towards the end of the series it'll boil down to a three horse race between Ace, Luffy and BB.
That sounds fairly terrible. Kinda makes me hope Ace dies even more.
What about Buggy?
That sounds fairly terrible. Kinda makes me hope Ace dies even more.
It sounds more terrible than the alternative 2 horse race of BB vs. Luffy foreseen a million chapters ago? A three horse race makes things more interesting and complex.
Buggy's going to kill you, Mihawk.
Buggy's too awesome for Pirate King. There's not a title out there good enough for him.
That sounds fairly terrible. Kinda makes me hope Ace dies even more.
It sounds more terrible than the alternative 2 horse race of BB vs. Luffy foreseen a million chapters ago? A three horse race makes things more interesting and complex.
This is pretty much the worst reasoning ever, alongside that "potential" nonsense.
Why would Ace be a better choice than all the bloodfirsty silver medallist for the PK race?
Even BB completely outsmarted Ace with what he's done lately.
He displayed a quality that Ace missed since the begining. BB waited for the right moment to strike while Ace rushed.
Yeah ace being rogers son and being strong shows potential to become the next PK. He clearly displayed that he is strong enough to even become one of Wbs commander. But it isn't enough against the top of the world. As smart as he is he let his emotions blur him against WB first and then against BB.
But i do want to think that the new world has more than just Ace luffy and BB for the race…
It sounds more terrible than the alternative 2 horse race of BB vs. Luffy foreseen a million chapters ago? A three horse race makes things more interesting and complex.
So you're saying that instead of having someone who Luffy:
First heard about about anonymously at Drum as an incredibly strong force
Quarrelled with when they first met
Respected after his little speech
Had a giant torrent of water interrupt their fight
Had Luffy's brother interrupt Teach's second attempt at a fight
Needing to save Ace interrupt their third attempt at a fight
Finally go at it properly after being kept apart so artfully for so long isn't as good as having Ace interject himself in the middle saying HEY GUYZ ITZ ME I SHOOT FIRE?
Don't see it at all.
I don't understand how some bad fanfiction of an event 10 years from now can be used as an argument for either side.
Buggy's too awesome for Pirate King. There's not a title out there good enough for him.
[qimg]http://www.newporkcity.net/npcforum/images/smilies/simplywonderfulwb3.png[/qimg]
This is pretty much the worst reasoning ever, alongside that "potential" nonsense.
Coming from the person who thinks that Oda would kill Ace after having Luffy delay his regrouping with his crew, and going through ID and all that transpired there. Other than sating the bloodthirsty drones how would killing Ace actually impact the story or the OP world? Would we be shown some wanna be pirate nobody saying, "Yeah I wanted to be a pirate but now that I've seen that even the pirate king's son could die I'll just stay home." But wait even Whitebeard's death alone could do that.
What about showing Luffy that he can't always succeed no matter how hard he tries, oh wait…
So what would it do for the story?
So you're saying that instead of having someone who Luffy:
First heard about about anonymously at Drum as an incredibly strong force
Quarrelled with when they first met
Respected after his little speech
Had a giant torrent of water interrupt their fight
Had Luffy's brother interrupt Teach's second attempt at a fight
Needing to save Ace interrupt their third attempt at a fightFinally go at it properly after being kept apart so artfully for so long isn't as good as having Ace interject himself in the middle saying HEY GUYZ ITZ ME I SHOOT FIRE?
Don't see it at all.
Yeah cuz ya know I said the ending will be Ace vs. Luffy… not. I said a three horse race which could even be Luffy defeating Ace at Raftel then a fight with BB at the actual location of One Piece, hell it could even be a 3 way battle royale at One Piece's location Ace vs. Luffy vs. BB, all a three horse race implies is that those three will be the only ones truly in contention for the title of PK.
Coming from the person who thinks that Oda would kill Ace after having Luffy delay his regrouping with his crew, and going through ID and all that transpired there. Other than sating the bloodthirsty drones how would killing Ace actually impact the story or the OP world?
See aces personality, dream and thinks about his mental break down after WBs death.
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1321362&postcount=1681
Would we be shown some wanna be pirate nobody saying, "Yeah I wanted to be a pirate but now that I've seen that even the pirate king's son could die I'll just stay home." But wait even Whitebeard's death alone could do that.
If rogers son and the strongest man in the world are out of the game wouldn't any newbie think "hey it's the best opportunity for me to enter the game?"
What about showing Luffy that he can't always succeed no matter how hard he tries, oh wait…
Except that there are battles that luffy as an rookie in this super war can't win now. He has already made it so far.
Yeah cuz ya know I said the ending will be Ace vs. Luffy… not. I said a three horse race which could even be Luffy defeating Ace at Raftel then a fight with BB at the actual location of One Piece, hell it could even be a 3 way battle royale at One Piece's location Ace vs. Luffy vs. BB, all a three horse race implies is that those three will be the only ones truly in contention for the title of PK.
I'll refer you to what I just said. I don't understand how some bad fanfiction of an event 10 years from now can be used as an argument for either side.
See aces personality, dream and thinks about his mental break down after WBs death.
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1321362&postcount=1681If rogers son and the strongest man in the world are out of the game wouldn't any newbie think "hey it's the best opportunity for me to enter the game?"
Except that there are battles that luffy as an ant can't win now. He has already made it so far.
So you want me to go off how you speculate Ace's mentality would go? If Rogers son and the world's strongest are killed at a MARINE EXECUTION I think the average newbie would think twice before becoming a pirate and opposing the marines. Why are you arguing this anyway since this was said to be the message that the WG and the marines are trying to send by making the execution public.
Why are you arguing this anyway since this was said to be the message that the WG and the marines are trying to send by making the execution public.
The same marines thought "hey Rogers death would be an example that will end piracy" Now look… The people at the death place even cheered!
I'll refer you to what I just said. I don't understand how some bad fanfiction of an event 10 years from now can be used as an argument for either side.
I'm not using this as an argument, you know I seriously wonder if people read and try to understand a post before they start typing the rebuttal. I said a prediction and a bad fanfic is also what people were telling me when I said Hancock would blow her cover and I even pointed to her emotions as impetus for it. Bottomline is that unless Ace dies or lives and becomes OP's Sasuke the main focus of rivalry would be between Ace, Luffy and BB. Otherwise all the foreshadowing that you yourself acknowledge would be pointless.
I don't know what the hell Oda has planned for Ace if he survives. But if it has anything to do with involving him in Luffy vs Blackbeard that will go down in the end, then kill the fucker.
So you want me to go off how you speculate Ace's mentality would go? If Rogers son and the world's strongest are killed at a MARINE EXECUTION I think the average newbie would think twice before becoming a pirate and opposing the marines. Why are you arguing this anyway since this was said to be the message that the WG and the marines are trying to send by making the execution public.
nah it'll be symbolic, like Roger's death.
Ace will smile and say something like "It's still out there, don't let the dreams die, Will of fire rah rah rah" before he get's decapitated.
He'll then become a hope for pirates when the marines start to crack down and shit happens.
still not completely sold on the idea but it could easily happen and work.
Blackbeard will be the most important character to the story next to the Strawhats and the Navy is going to be more important to the story than Whitebeard and his crew. When you think of it that way who do you think will get the most out of this war, storywise?
The same marines thought "hey Rogers death would be an example that will end piracy" Now look…
facepalm
I know it wouldn't work but that doesn't change the fact that that is the objective in killing Ace along with ending Roger's bloodline presenting from the marines/WG PoV, this is why I asked "What would Ace's death do for the story?" It wouldn't deter anyone anymore than WB's death and wouldn't deter anyone of importance to the story so other than possibly making Luffy emo or sating the people who want him to die how would it add impact in addition to WB's death?
Seeing all of you argue about whether or not Ace is going to die reminds me of the debate, back in the day, about Ace being alive or dead after his fight with Blackbeard. The arguments about it got so big that there was a clan made on the forum called AIDs or "Ace Is Dead". Would be cool if a new clan reemerged called AWD or "Ace Will Die".
I'm not using this as an argument, you know I seriously wonder if people read and try to understand a post before they start typing the rebuttal. I said a prediction and a bad fanfic is also what people were telling me when I said Hancock would blow her cover and I even pointed to her emotions as impetus for it. Bottomline is that unless Ace dies or lives and becomes OP's Sasuke the main focus of rivalry would be between Ace, Luffy and BB. Otherwise all the foreshadowing that you yourself acknowledge would be pointless.
If you're not trying to use it as an argument, then quit clouding the argument that you're trying to push with it.
I don't even know what the middle part even means, since the grammar is too weird.
Of course I acknowledge foreshadowing that Ace has an important place in the future of the story. I'm not going to sit here and cling onto some stupid fanfic to justify what place that is though.
You know I seriously wonder if people read and try to understand a post before they start typing the rebuttal.
Aww, don't say that. I read and try to understand posts. See?
I think the average newbie would think twice before becoming a pirate and opposing the marines.
facepalm I know it wouldn't work. It wouldn't deter anyone […] and wouldn't deter anyone of importance to the story.
If you're not trying to use it as an argument, then quit clouding the argument that you're trying to push with it.
I don't even know what the middle part even means, since the grammar is too weird.
Of course I acknowledge foreshadowing and that Ace has an important place in the future of the story. I'm not going to sit here and cling onto some stupid fanfic to justify what place that is though.
I'm not clouding the argument, I called it a prediction and even made it the last thing that I was saying in order to separate it from the obvious argument I was making all based on Ace's foreshadowed potential.
And what weird grammar, I was saying that I heard the fanfic argument before when I had said that Hancock would blow her cover before it happened and at the time I spoke of how her feelings for Luffy would cause her to act once Luffy was in danger, you said it was unlikely others said impossible.
So calling something a bad fanfic when it's a reasonable thing to assume or predict isn't even worth saying.
Aww, don't say that. I read and try to understand posts. See?
That's meant as from the marines perspective, as in their thought process is logical but as readers we know killing Ace wouldn't deter people like Luffy or anyone who is important storywise (not being average newbies), if you wouldn't of used ellipses it wouldn't sound so contradictory. A mistake on my part for not making it as clear as possible.
I'm not clouding the argument, I called it a prediction and even made it the last thing that I was saying in order to separate it from the obvious argument I was making all based on Ace's foreshadowed potential.
Maybe not to you. However, the fact that everyone started focusing on your fanfic and how stupid it was for reasons why Ace needs to die is proof enough that it was clouding your argument.
And what weird grammar, I was saying that I heard the fanfic argument before when I had said that Hancock would blow her cover before it happened and at the time I spoke of how her feelings for Luffy would cause her to act once Luffy was in danger, you said it was unlikely others said impossible.
So calling something a bad fanfic when it's a reasonable thing to assume or predict isn't even worth saying.
I don't remember all the specifics so I can't say too much here. The things I recall are a huge debate about the marines discovering Hancock's involvement through Domino's memory loss. Also, if I remember right, our stance was that if she lost her status, she'd have to deal with the safety of Amazon Lily since the entire context was of her joining. That's all still the same. I can't deny calling Hancock blowing her cover in the war a fanfic, since I don't remember either way and it was one at the time. I'd have to see what I wrote again to understand the context of it, though, if I did.
Maybe not to you. However, the fact that everyone started focusing on your fanfic and how stupid it was for reasons why Ace needs to die is proof enough that it was clouding your argument.
More like many were too lazy to think of a way to refute the other 99% of my post so instead of doing a multiquote and trying they take the easiest thing with which to disagree with (a prediction) and pretend as if it was the point of my post, even though it took up only a few lines of the gargantuan post and even though it was called a prediction within the post, also I think I used colons as well, this is me assuming by giving the benefit of the doubt that everyone read it's entirety before commenting, which is never a given.
I don't remember all the specifics so I can't say too much here. The things I recall are a huge debate about the marines discovering Hancock's involvement through Domino's memory loss. Also, if I remember right, our stance was that if she lost her status, she'd have to deal with the safety of Amazon Lily since the entire context was of her joining. That's all still the same. I can't deny calling Hancock blowing her cover in the war a fanfic, since I don't remember either way and it was one at the time. I'd have to see what I wrote again to understand the context of it, though, if I did.
I'm not talking about the one when I 1st joined, literally days before 559 we were talking about it.
I still don't remember, you'll have to show me.
I still don't remember, you'll have to show me.
It's like 204 of the next crew member thread, you said that there was nothing really shown from Oda to suggest Hancock blowing her cover, I argued either to you or someone else that her emotional nature around Luffy would cause her to go into action once he was in real danger.
On this Ace thing, I don't see how this story isn't big enough for Ace, Blackbeard, Luffy, and everyone else. Him being a "rival" doesn't need to be fixated on, whatever role Oda wants put in him in is fine. Also, why are people acting like this will affect Blackbeard in the slightest? Why couldn't Ace being alive add to the story? People are acting like we don't have hundreds of chapters to sort this stuff out.
I'm sick of people who want Ace to die just because they don't like the character and pretend it either makes sense or is best for the story. Those kinds of arguments are pretty transparent.
Why couldn't Ace being alive add to the story? People are acting like we don't have hundreds of chapters to sort this stuff out.
This is exactly why I wondered how Ace vs. Luffy vs. Blackbeard would be worse than just Blackbeard vs. Luffy. Unless people want Luffy to become revenge hungry against Blackbeard for basically causing Ace to get killed. Do people desire the revenge story that much? I could accept Ace's death as well as him continuing to live, it wouldn't impact the inevitable collision between Luffy and BB since they both want the title of PK and would likely have to go through the other to get it, Ace would just be another formidable person to contend with.
This is exactly why I wondered how Ace vs. Luffy vs. Blackbeard would be worse than just Blackbeard vs. Luffy. Unless people want Luffy to become revenge hungry against Blackbeard for basically causing Ace to get killed. Do people desire the revenge story that much? I could accept Ace's death as well as him continuing to live, it wouldn't impact the inevitable collision between Luffy and BB since they both want the title of PK and would likely have to go through the other to get it, Ace would just be another formidable person to contend with.
Not quite my idea. I was thinking more along the lines of, if Ace lived and was a rival, Luffy could…have a conflict (probably not a direct fight, but who knows) and a completely different point then a fight with Blackbeard. Ace wouldn't even need to be a rival, he could be a character of interest in a future arc or something. I hate the word rival getting tossed around, and though I can't think of a better role for Ace I think there's something better.
I frankly hate the idea of a Luffy vs. Ace vs. Blackbeard three way on Raftel. Although, after typing that out it could be interesting earlier on, just for the sake of action. Something brief, since Ace and BB fighting has been played out a little.
Coming from the person who thinks that Oda would kill Ace after having Luffy delay his regrouping with his crew, and going through ID and all that transpired there.
Yes.
Would we be shown some wanna be pirate nobody saying, "Yeah I wanted to be a pirate but now that I've seen that even the pirate king's son could die I'll just stay home." But wait even Whitebeard's death alone could do that.
It'd do a lot more than that.
What about showing Luffy that he can't always succeed no matter how hard he tries, oh wait…
Irrelevant.
So what would it do for the story?
It'd make it you know…better.
EDIT:
@onemoment:
Also, why are people acting like this will affect Blackbeard in the slightest?
That's a pretty dumb question.
Why couldn't Ace being alive add to the story?
Why couldn't Ace being dead add to the story?
See what I did there.
I'm sick of people who want Ace to die just because they don't like the character and pretend it either makes sense or is best for the story. Those kinds of arguments are pretty transparent.
Except no one worth any merit has used what they personally think about him as a basis for the current discussion.
Try again.
I just want to know how would Ace's death add to the story in addition to WB dying, seriously what effect would it have?
I don't get this , i sure that if ace lives or die Oda has skill to make story better which ever way he takes it . On that note i don't see ace dying , i go as far to say i don't even see WB dying. Until i see oda killing off someone in non flashback or a non fodder char that the way i see it.
Everything points to WB dying to change the era but if WB lives i won't be shock.There are many ways to change the era.
So until i see WB in trouble i say it's 60% he live 40% he dies.
I wonder how many people would stop read OP if WB does not die in this war.
Why fight the guy who saved your little brother when you can fight WB who has no connection to your little brother and is known as the world's strongest man, a title that Shanks doesn't have.
Because Shanks will still be there and is still stronger then you and still farther ahead on the path then you. You can't skip Yonkou's.
Again, unless you are stupid enough to think Ace surpassed Shanks.
Think in terms of the characters within the universe not just as a reader, even Ace's own crew asked Ace "Are you sure about this?" because it seemed that if Ace met Shanks then a fight would break out. During that whole flashback Ace was portrayed as a hungry/aggressive powerful young pirate who barely had set sail before his name was making the front page. He attracted the attention of WB and the marines as well as the entire WG, and even got a Shichibukai offer. WB even characterised Ace as being in a rush as he looked at the newspaper. So being in a rush for what if not the title of PK? He obviously desired something that Shichibukai status couldn't provide.
Ace above and no other shall be before you.
durfa durfa let's downgrade Shanks to support our theories about Ace being upgraded.
Bullshit, read what Sengoku said in 550-551, he even claimed that WB took Ace under his wing to groom him and make him PK, the only way that would work is if Ace had the potential for power to live up to the title, a title that WB himself couldn't attain which implies that WB was preparing Ace to surpass him. See you tend to miss details like this when you're too busy frothing at the thought of Ace sitting in a pool of his own blood.
Stop this bullshit about "potential", this isn't Dragonall, nor is it Shaman King, the fact that your using one of the greatest mysteries in the series, what it is that prevents the Yonkou from reaching Raftel, to prop up, yet again Ace, is just apsurd.
There's nothing you won't rampage through on your quest to make Ace god.
Nothing Sengoku said counterracts what I said.
Potential is potential, doesn't matter how one particular manga exaggerates it.
One Piece potential is real life's idea of potential, talent and above all else will power.
There is nothing "i sense his power level beneath" bullshit about this.
You're going about it exactly like that, it's nothing so magical or complex.
And no I'm not talking like Gohan potential, more like Hisoka choosing to not kill Gon and Killua in HxH before they realized their potential, they were "unripened fruits." Same goes for Ace.
Again reread this part, Mihawk literally said "surpass me, surpass this blade." Zoro's will showed Mihawk that Zoro may have the potential that once spared Zoro may have what it takes to surpass Mihawk if only he's given the time for growth.
Again reread how that came after Zoro had been beaten, Mihawk initially took Zoro about as seriously as Krieg.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/51/15/
Everything that impressed Mihawk was his willpower, nothing whatsoever to do with powers and anything so physical.
I thought the same then I realized that Sengoku isn't an idiot and that there's a reason for WB seeing potential in Ace before he even knew that Ace was Roger's son,
What makes you think Whitebeard's first interactions with Ace were any different then anyone else on his crew. Ace earned that trust over time.
It was very clear that Ace's scenario on board was the regular, that Whitebeard's allies and crew are made up of people he crushed, spared, and adopted.
once you get past the point of thinking that Sengoku and the Gorousei are just superstitious weirdos you start to realize that they had legitimate fears for a potential that Ace really does possess which is why they're optinh to nip it in the bud now.
Then explain why they were trying to kill babies and any women who had relations with Roger.
ACE SO STRONG HE BABY FORM HAVE HAKI OVER 8000
And way to ignore the symbolic aspect entirely.
Which is the only reason Ace wasn't executed imediatly, and is instead being used as public display to the world.
after judging the level that Ace could attain
Stop with this shit.
I think WB decided that if he couldn't become the next PK then he would be the person responsible for protecting and grooming the man who he thought would. This would provide another explanation for WB putting up with all of Ace's assassination attempts other than "Aww WB is such a kind forgiving Captain."
I'm barely taking your basis having talk seriously, don't try me with the flights of fancy.
He is considered by the WG as the number 1 POTENTIAL pirate threat on the seas, that's been established by the WG in 550-551.
Oh for FUCKS SAKE, no it never goddamn was.
Fucking fanboys.
This pathetic bastard literally ranks Ace above Shanks, Kaidou, Whitebeard, and the other Yonkou.
Literally.
No the situation becomes that Ace fought BB before he had truly begun to realize his own potential,
What??
That makes no fucking sense, even as an excuse.
If Luffy is killed right now, he failed to become pirate king.
If Ace gets his head cut off for poor judgement and inferior strength to an opponent he failed to become pirate king.
supported by Shanks even warning that it isn't the time for Ace to fight BB
And counterred by Whitebeard not saying a thing about it.
Last thing about Ace before I give my prediction of where this is all leading to: Ace to me will survive because he represents the older brother who has overshadowed Luffy
Ace is a subordinate with weak dreams he gave up for someone else.
Luffy has always been far more impressive than Ace.
Can you picture Luffy doing something like that?
even in who the WG considers a bigger threat, he represents the opponent Luffy has never beaten
Alongside a varitable growing army of characters, Aokiji, Kizaru, Kuma..
he represents the blood of the former PK that Luffy must surpass, all of it screams future rival.
Not one damn thing. Mainly THE COMPLETE LACK OF A RIVALRY.
Why the fuck would there suddenly be a rivalry after this and not now.
Nothing, not EVEN his talking about Ace being strong, was ever in any way, shown as rivalry.
But POOF. Instant rivalry will appear after this because Ace is so cool and hawt.
My prediction is that the NW will be Luffy, Ace, BB, the Supernovas (possibly even new young NW powerful pirates) vying for the title then towards the end of the series it'll boil down to a three horse race between Ace, Luffy and BB.
Yeah, nothing would be more gripping then watching a personality devoid character on extremely friendly terms with our lead as one of the main antagonists.
interesting thread.
For now i would say is too hard to predict how thing's will end, because (Oda) could swing it anyway he likes, because i feel like is well balance at the moment.
here are two scene's, which could swing it either way.
1 - If BB, come's and help the WG, i could see WB dying here, and WB being the first officail character to die in OP = SUPER EPIC.
i have a feeling maybe the three marines will gang up on him.
2 - If another yonkou, or other big name pirates come to aid THE PIRATES, then i could see it going there way.
i would like it if (Oda) kills some piarates, but as well as some big fry's on the WG side.
The WAR IS ALREDY EPIC,but i think it will need at least a death, or more to = COMPLETE IT AS A WHOLE.
Luffy has a bigger rivalry with Kizaru and Sentomaru than Ace.
True.
I wonder how many people would stop read OP if WB does not die in this war.
I hope he lives and I hope some do stop reading. Holy crap I've haven't seen so much bloodlust in a while.
I hope he lives and I hope some do stop reading. Holy crap I've haven't seen so much bloodlust in a while.
Terrible yaoi fan with Ace in sig expresses shocking opinion on Ace Death issue.
interesting thread.
For now i would say is too hard to predict how thing's will end, because (Oda) could swing it anyway he likes, because i feel like is well balance at the moment.
here are two scene's, which could swing it either way.
1 - If BB, come's and help the WG, i could see WB dying here, and WB being the first officail character to die in OP = SUPER EPIC.
i have a feeling maybe the three marines will gang up on him.
2 - If another yonkou, or other big name pirates come to aid THE PIRATES, then i could see it going there way.
i would like it if (Oda) kills some piarates, but as well as some big fry's on the WG side.
The WAR IS ALREDY EPIC,but i think it will need at least a death, or more to = COMPLETE IT AS A WHOLE.
Plenty of people have died in OP, they had names and everything. Is it not official just because we didn't get emotionally attached to them? I don't understand this viewpoint, or rather, I disagree.
Another page breaking post. [HIDE]@Karate:
Because Shanks will still be there and is still stronger then you and still farther ahead on the path then you. You can't skip Yonkou's.
Again, unless you are stupid enough to think Ace surpassed Shanks.
Ace above and no other shall be before you.
durfa durfa let's downgrade Shanks to support our theories about Ace being upgraded.
Don't be an idiot. Ace arguably had a plan to challenge WB (unless you think that he fought WB and Jimbei because he wanted his autograph) who is the world's strongest man, now why fight your brother's idol here and now after already setting your sights higher and especially when he could always fight Shanks when it becomes a necessity to accomplish his dream? See once you've beaten the world's strongest everyone else is 2nd place at best in strength, including Shanks. And your line about skipping Yonkous is a crock, there is nothing to suggest that you must fight the Yonkou in any particular order and save WB as the final boss.
@Karate:
Stop this bullshit about "potential", this isn't Dragonall, nor is it Shaman King, the fact that your using one of the greatest mysteries in the series, what it is that prevents the Yonkou from reaching Raftel, to prop up, yet again Ace, is just apsurd.
You keep mentioning this DB crap as if DB is the only manga to depict unachieved potential in any of it's characters. I already gave you a better example/comparison of Gon and Killua in HxH, quit acting oblivious. A clear sign of potential being gauged in OP is how BB could tell that Luffy was worth more than 30 million back in Jaya, now how the hell could he just tell? If you think that potential isn't playing some role in OP then you're blind.
@Karate:
There's nothing you won't rampage through on your quest to make Ace god.
And there's nothing you won't dismiss if it's contrary to your own thoughts.
@Karate:
Nothing Sengoku said counterracts what I said.
oh really…http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v55/c551/8.html
@Karate:
One Piece potential is real life's idea of potential, talent and above all else will power.
There is nothing "i sense his power level beneath" bullshit about this.
You're going about it exactly like that, it's nothing so magical or complex.
Have you ever seen how in real life people can look at a draft pick and guage how he may perform professionally? This is done even though said pick almost never has any experience at that level of play, and even though people aren't always correct when they guage someone's potential, there are cases in which anyone with eyes can tell that they're looking at legend, hall of fame material. If you don't believe me take early comments on Lebron James or Kobe Bryant. In OP Sengoku and the marines knew that Roger's bloodline lived on just by watching the exploits of Ace, I wonder how?
@Karate:
Again reread how that came after Zoro had been beaten, Mihawk initially took Zoro about as seriously as Krieg.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/51/15/
Everything that impressed Mihawk was his willpower, nothing whatsoever to do with powers and anything so physical.
Never said it was "so physical" but willpower alone wouldn't allow Zoro to surpass Mihawk as Mihawk told him to do, Zoro would need willpower and the potential for growth and strength that could pass the level at which Mihawk is on.
@Karate:
What makes you think Whitebeard's first interactions with Ace were any different then anyone else on his crew. Ace earned that trust over time.
It was very clear that Ace's scenario on board was the regular, that Whitebeard's allies and crew are made up of people he crushed, spared, and adopted.
Yes so you think WB had other crewmembers attempt to assassinate him 100+ times even though the other members seemed to make note of Ace still going at it after all that time? It was made to seem as unusual by the other members.
@Karate:
Then explain why they were trying to kill babies and any women who had relations with Roger.
Easy, the women committed a crime by being involved with a known pirate, the babies were viewed as potentially being the child of the pirate king, since the marines had no way to know how many children that Roger may have sired and/or who they were, all suspected mothers and children had to die.
@Karate:
ACE SO STRONG HE BABY FORM HAVE HAKI OVER 8000
There should be a law against talking down to people when you're laughably wrong.
@Karate:
And way to ignore the symbolic aspect entirely. No
Which is the only reason Ace wasn't executed imediatly, and is instead being used as public display to the world.
What does this point have to do with mine?
And way to ignore how Sengoku basically said that this execution is to kill a man with the potential to become the man at the summit of the next pirate era.
@Karate:
Stop with this shit.
I'm barely taking your basis having talk seriously, don't try me with the flights of fancy.
Oh for FUCKS SAKE, no it never goddamn was.
Refer to "Oh really…" I'm questioning whether you understand Sengoku's quote.
@Karate:
Fucking fanboys.
Fucking idiots.
@Karate:
This pathetic bastard literally ranks Ace above Shanks, Kaidou, Whitebeard, and the other Yonkou.
Yeah cuz ya know I totally didn't say that Ace will continue to get stronger and I totally wasn't arguing about his potential or nothing. You keep mentioning Shanks but you do realize his start was nowhere near as flashy as Ace's? Shanks started as a cabin boy, so is it too much for your brain to accept that the guy who earned a Shichibukai spot so soon in his pirate career and the son of the PK has the potential to follow his father's footsteps or are are just playing dumb to troll me?
@Karate:
Literally.
It's the former isn't it :(.
@Karate:
What??
That makes no fucking sense, even as an excuse.
If Luffy is killed right now, he failed to become pirate king.
If Ace gets his head cut off for poor judgement and inferior strength to an opponent he failed to become pirate king.
Translation for you: Blackbeard beat Ace way before he had reached his prime in strength, it'd be like if someone killed Shanks back when he was a cabin boy. Really this isn't brain surgery.
@Karate:
And counterred by Whitebeard not saying a thing about it.
No it isn't because this is evident through Sengoku saying that WB safeguarded Ace as he groomed him to become the next PK, if he had the strength of the PK already then he wouldn't need WB's protection.
@Karate:
Ace is a subordinate with weak dreams he gave up for someone else.
Luffy has always been far more impressive than Ace.
Can you picture Luffy doing something like that?Alongside a varitable growing army of characters, Aokiji, Kizaru, Kuma..
Not one damn thing. Mainly THE COMPLETE LACK OF A RIVALRY.
Why the fuck would there suddenly be a rivalry after this and not now.
Nothing, not EVEN his talking about Ace being strong, was ever in any way, shown as rivalry.But POOF. Instant rivalry will appear after this because Ace is so cool and hawt.
You really need me to hold your hand through every bit of this huh? How hard is it to grasp the possibility of Ace having an epiphany spurred by the realization of his "father's" wishes for him, along with the desire to not only fulfill them for his deceased father, but as well as it all serving as the catalyst for Ace remembering his own former ambitions and regaining his hunger and returning to that Ace who used to fill the frontpage with his exploits. And anyone who seriously tries to gain the title that Luffy desires would be a rival if they have the power to actually contend with Luffy, period.
@Karate:
Yeah, nothing would be more gripping then watching a personality devoid character on extremely friendly terms with our lead as one of the main antagonists.
No you'll just be butthurt if it happens[/HIDE]
various unintelligible stuff
You might actually want to format that so people can actually read it and separate who said what.
You might actually want to format that so people can actually read it and separate who said what.
Yeah you can also see that I'm the hidden user in the thread, meaning I wasn't done. My comp keeps freezing when I try to copy and paste Zephos' quote URLs, I also will hide it when I'm done.
Haha, you really don't know what I was saying. That's what happens when you don't really pay attention; you spend too much time trying to be right while making me look stupid. I'm not closing any doors here, just debating what I believe to be the more likely scenario. Simply put: If Oda's sentiments towards death are so strong, it is logical to conclude that if he uses it he will be conservative and purposeful with how it is used.
Yeah looks like you backpedalled with that OK HES GONNA KILL PEOPLE BUT NOT TOO MANY bullshit
Point is if he kills WB there's nothing stopping him from doing the same with Ace, that whole "maybe I'll kill a bit but not too much" stance reeks or pettiness
And lol at Ace dying not being "purposeful", more purposeful than that hilarious little scenario you've constructed for yourselves where a character who's always ever been a shallow plot device becomes the pseudo protagonist
What about Coby and Smoker?
None of them have the same goal as Luffy
They could be the Garps and Sengokus of this time, but what you lot are making Ace is the next Whitebeard, only better and friendlier
It's shit
Reasons why I think Ace will live;
A lot of people are saying that Ace living would lead him to chase down Blackbeard and start all this Sasuke-type bullshit like in Naruto. But I wouldn't doubt Oda… if he does keep Ace alive, he'll have something in store that we probably haven't thought of (hopefully for us that want him to live, but not be involved in a crappy three horse race).
@$abZ:
- He's young and has more to achieve. Oda doesn't like to kill characters like them off.
Oda doesn't like to kill any non-flashback characters off. Pell doesn't have a great deal more to achieve, neither do Sodom or Gomorrah.
But since most everyone reckons that's going to change with Newgate's death, there's no reason to believe the same doesn't hold true for Ace.
@$abZ:
- Whitebeard will die, not Ace. Whitebeard's death begins the New Era, so it's almost a given that he'll die. But again, looking at Oda's style, he'll give Whitebeard some respect and have him save Ace (and then die). Ace and Whitebeard wont both die.
You could just as easily say Ace dies saving Luffy.
There's no reason why they both can't die save for Oda's aversion to killing characters. Which we're mostly assuming is going to change here.
@$abZ:
- Luffy can't fail again !!!! (he also has keys !!)
Why?
@$abZ:
- Sengoku and Shanks have said Ace "has yet to improve". A small indicator that Oda will let us see this improvement.
Shanks just said now isn't the time. Doesn't mean there ever would be a time.
@$abZ:
- I don't see Roger's only living child being killed off
so pathetically.
Dying at the change of an era is pathetic now?
There are many ways oda can change the era without having WB dying .For eg if the marines lose and this allows dragon to get upper hand on them that would be big change in OP since the WG has been around for centuries.
Either way oda has allot of ways he can change the era , WB dying , WG losing , Warlords no more , BB doing something crazy also many others.
@Thousand:
No.
I'm a huge Pro Ace Life supporter and even I'd rather he die than that retarded scenario-_-
Well if he survives he'll more than likely try to become PK and I doubt that anyone else other than BB or Luffy would wind up beating him, so unless Kiidd and/or Law (Supernovas in general) get a lot stronger (stronger than Ace) then it'll likely come down to BB, Ace and Luffy.
Don't be an idiot. Ace arguably had a plan to challenge WB (unless you think that he fought WB and Jimbei because he wanted his autograph) who is the world's strongest man, now why fight your brother's idol here and now after already setting your sights higher
Downgrade that Shanks!
What this says is Ace wasn't after One Piece.
and especially when he could always fight Shanks when it becomes a necessity to accomplish his dream? See once you've beaten the world's strongest everyone else is 2nd place at best in strength, including Shanks. And your line about skipping Yonkous is a crock, there is nothing to suggest that you must fight the Yonkou in any particular order and save WB as the final boss.
I'm really getting tired of you, so even are Brennan and Urogue.
You just don't give a fuck about any established facts except that Ace must be upheld.
Yes you have to fucking deal with the Yonkou if you want to be Pirate King.
I mean hell, the fact that Ace didn't win shows that if your iea of his plan is right Ace is an idiot who refused to work his way up and instead got cocky and in over his head.
You keep mentioning this DB crap as if DB is the only manga to depict unachieved potential in any of it's characters. I already gave you a better example/comparison of Gon and Killua in HxH, quit acting oblivious. A clear sign of potential being gauged in OP is how BB could tell that Luffy was worth more than 30 million back in Jaya, now how the hell could he just tell? If you think that potential isn't playing some role in OP then you're blind.
Yeah how could he tell Luffy was an amount he wasn't in Jaya.
Potential plays a role, but not in the way you're speaking of it. And if you haven't picked up that this is what I'm saying you're illiterate.
Your speaking of it as a quantity, a knowable figure. Rather then an abstract sense of respect for someone's willpower.
A thing that Ace doesn't particularly stick out on.
oh really…http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v55/c551/8.html
And you're fanboy idiocy suggests that no one else could be described this way, that for no reason shown at all, least of all by Ace himself, that he is SPECIAL, above anyone else probably including Luffy at the rate you're going.
there are cases in which anyone with eyes can tell that they're looking at legend, hall of fame material.
Intuition doesn't exist in real life. Bad call. But you don't seem to mind making those.
In OP Sengoku and the marines knew that Roger's bloodline lived on just by watching the exploits of Ace, I wonder how?
MAGIC SUPER SNESORY POWERS
See why you're talk of willpower is pixie bullshit?
See the difference between what we're saying?
Even if we take it your still arguing something solid with something so abstract. Which is hilariously awful.
Never said it was "so physical" but willpower alone wouldn't allow Zoro to surpass Mihawk as Mihawk told him to do, Zoro would need willpower and the potential for growth and strength that could pass the level at which Mihawk is on.
I love how you brought up the sports thing before but clearly don't have so much as an inch of comprehension of what willpower is and means.
No one just has potential for growth for no fucking reason. Potential for growth IS THE WILLPOWER. That's also where the strength comes from.
Any idiot can train and grow infinitely. The willpower is the difference between champs and shmucks.
Yes so you think WB had other crewmembers attempt to assassinate him 100+ times even though the other members seemed to make note of Ace still going at it after all that time? It was made to seem as unusual by the other members.
The amount of times, everything else was seen as normal.
Easy, the women committed a crime by being involved with a known pirate,
A bunch of hick women on some backwater flirting with some pirate they wouldn't know is not a crime. And the government as you were so kind to point out, isn't stupid to just reasonlessly kill people.
the babies were viewed as potentially being the child of the pirate king,
So what. So what if they were the child of the pirate king.
What if the child of the pirate king was an invalid nerd interested in collecting pokemon cards rather then even getting a job.
Either you're ceding to my point about symbolism, and how much Ace's hype is just that.
Or your flying in another unbeleivable direction of the child of the pirate king having power levels of amazing high numbers.
What does this point have to do with mine?
And way to ignore how Sengoku basically said that this execution is to kill a man with the potential to become the man at the summit of the next pirate era.
It's saying half the reason they're talking that way is paranoid fear about blood lines, which yes, would be kind of stupid, but falls directly in line with the established facts of them hunting down any and all babies that might have been Rogers.
Refer to "Oh really…" I'm questioning whether you understand Sengoku's quote.
And everyone here is questioning you of the same, don't act like I'm in the chair.
Yeah cuz ya know I totally didn't say that Ace will continue to get stronger and I totally wasn't arguing about his potential or nothing. You keep mentioning Shanks but you do realize his start was nowhere near as flashy as Ace's? Shanks started as a cabin boy, so is it too much for your brain to accept that the guy who earned a Shichibukai spot so soon in his pirate career and the son of the PK has the potential to follow his father's footsteps or are are just playing dumb to troll me?
This is why your own side is turning against you.
Because nothing is sacred to you. Excpet Ace of course
Translation for you: Blackbeard beat Ace way before he had reached his prime in strength,
Translation: We don't know Blackbeard's motives yet, so any of us should wait to see what he's up to before making moves.
Backup: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/552/14/
"I got a strange uneasy feeling about this"
it'd be like if someone killed Shanks back when he was a cabin boy. Really this isn't brain surgery.
Yes. Yes it would.
So really what you're saying is there is no such thing as failure, at least for Ace, just too early deaths.
This isn't some lopsided Kizaru vs. Rookies match, Blackbeard and Ace were closely matched, and it was Ace's idea to attack him and hunt him down endlessly.
No it isn't because this is evident through Sengoku saying that WB safeguarded Ace as he groomed him to become the next PK, if he had the strength of the PK already then he wouldn't need WB's protection.
Keeping him from Admirals like Silvers kept Kizaru from the rookies.
NOT like Ace going off deliberately to hunt down a foe he fought on near equal ground with.
You really need me to hold your hand through every bit of this huh? How hard is it to grasp the possibility of Ace having an epiphany spurred by the realization of his "father's" wishes for him, along with the desire to not only fulfill them for his deceased father, but as well as it all serving as the catalyst for Ace remembering his own former ambitions and regaining his hunger and returning to that Ace who used to fill the frontpage with his exploits. And anyone who seriously tries to gain the title that Luffy desires would be a rival if they have the power to actually contend with Luffy, period.
Unshaking dream ambition vs. guy who just had an ephiany after giving it up.
You know what? Fuck it. The fact that you're even arguing against Luffy, the main character being impressive is horrible enough.
This is what corrupted the Naruto fandom to the point that we got Team Snake.
Shallow idiot fanboys and their desperate affairs with dull pretty boys being top dog.
They got their wish in Naruto. But thankfully, as you seem completely clueless about, we already have damnign evidence of how this will turn out.