the official italian edition of Jump translated it like "u are not goin to see them again"(kuma at shabondy to luffy not going to see his nakama again)
もう二度と会う事はない
so bad translation?
waiting for japanese speakers so much
the official italian edition of Jump translated it like "u are not goin to see them again"(kuma at shabondy to luffy not going to see his nakama again)
もう二度と会う事はない
so bad translation?
waiting for japanese speakers so much
From memory both were possible as the context was unclear.
Or if the theory that Kuma had his mind wiped between Sabaody and Marineford is true, then the first works anyway.
Or Kuma is not omniscient and got it wrong.
A few possibilities.
もう二度と会う事はない
That is certainly ambiguous. Literal: "There will not be a second time for a meeting to occur."
Whether he means a meeting between Luffy & Strawhats or Luffy & Kuma, there's no way to tell without context.
From memory both were possible as the context was unclear.
Or if the theory that Kuma had his mind wiped between Sabaody and Marineford is true, then the first works anyway.
Or Kuma is not omniscient and got it wrong.
A few possibilities.
sure,but nobody did a translation like that before.:ninja:
Well, if the script funi got from toei means anything…
!
Nothing solid but still more so than a fan translation?
the official italian edition of Jump translated it like "u are not goin to see them again"(kuma at shabondy to luffy not going to see his nakama again)
Interesting. This can still hold true! It all starts making sense now. The old mugiwara crew just didn't cut it for the NW. Jimbei is the new zoro, ivankov the new sanji, hancock the new robin.
That's probably why Buggy is shaping up to be the new Usopp. Oh wait, Buggy actually has real followers, scratch that.
To tell you the truth I think that the "You will not meet them again" makes more sense, in that context. I mean, what's the point of Bear saying that he and Luffy won't meet again when:
I think that Bear saying that Rufy won't meet his crew again makes more sense as a way to "punish" him to have him think more about endangering his crew the next time.
To tell you the truth I think that the "You will not meet them again" makes more sense, in that context. I mean, what's the point of Bear saying that he and Luffy won't meet again when:
For real though.. a fade-out statement like that is just never a lie/wrong.. he foreshadowed his own "death" because he knew he was going to get completely pacified (mind wiped).
the official italian edition of Jump translated it like "u are not goin to see them again"(kuma at shabondy to luffy not going to see his nakama again)
もう二度と会う事はない
so bad translation?
waiting for japanese speakers so much
もう二度と会う事はない
That is certainly ambiguous. Literal: "There will not be a second time for a meeting to occur."
Whether he means a meeting between Luffy & Strawhats or Luffy & Kuma, there's no way to tell without context.
Interesting… This brings a new sense to what Kuma said...
sure,but nobody did a translation like that before.:ninja:
…Uh, I did. But yeah, the "We will never meet again"-translation does seem like the most popular one, though neither are actually wrong. Personally, I prefer "You will never see them again", because of Luffy's reaction to what he says.
We discussed this when the episode came out, but in Japanese when you don't say the subject "I" is implied to be the subject. So "We will not meet again" is correct.
And given the end of the previous chapter, the meaning is clear, don't you think? What with Kuma being sort of not human anymore/dead… etc...
I don't think Luffy cares about what he's saying to react the way he did. Just look at what Kuma do with his crew. Being the only one left was enough to make Luffy spaz out.
"We will not meet again" is the only one that made sense to me. It's his way of saying not to expect being "saved" or "spared" again as he pretty much accepts every consequence to what may happen to him afterward.
The other one seems a bit too cruel for someone like Kuma.
We don't even see a reaction shot of Luffy when or after Kuma says it, only before when Luffy is freaking out over his crew being gone.
To tell you the truth I think that the "You will not meet them again" makes more sense, in that context. I mean, what's the point of Bear saying that he and Luffy won't meet again when:
- Luffy doesn't know him
- They in fact DO meet again at Marineford
I think that Bear saying that Rufy won't meet his crew again makes more sense as a way to "punish" him to have him think more about endangering his crew the next time.
With the current chapter it pretty much makes sense that Kuma meant he will never see Luffy again. What's to say that Doflamingo's statement about Kuma the tyrant being dead doesn't refer to something that happened recently, like the Sabaody incident. Since he's a cyborg his punishment could have been that the WG erased Kuma's mind or whatsoever. He seems as talkative as a regular PX right now so it's possible that he is now not the same he was back at Sabaody. So technically his "we will never see each other again" still would hold truth.
Oda meant for the phrase to be ambiguos. It can go both ways which would leave people thinking what Kuma really meant. Simple suspense building from Oda.
Oda meant for the phrase to be ambiguos. It can go both ways which would leave people thinking what Kuma really meant. Simple suspense building from Oda.
the suspense u r talkin about should be in the translated official and not official versions too,then.but it is not
if he did know he was about to get messed up
maybe it will confirm Zoro vs kuma round 2
well, either Kuma said that Luffy won't be meeting the crew again, or he lied in saying said he wouldn't be seeing luffy again, or he truthfully said he wouldn't be seeing luffy again.
if it's about the crew, then it's the kind of intentionally disheartening thing villains just say, which Luffy will prove false, because OP isn't OP without the crew.
If it was a lie, then he either lied because
*kizaru was watching, and he wanted to sound the part
*he seriously thought Luffy wouldn't be a threat any more, seperated from his crew, and never expected to see him again. kuma's "death" was unforseen by him.
if it was the truth, then he knew either
*he would lose what was left of his free will, effectively "dying"
*he would be executed, and that the "kuma" at marineford is some uber-pacifista with his devil fruit powers.
Does that cover every possibility? I think so…
and for the record, I think that he knew something would happen to him, probably his mental death, because his other actions suggest he isn't a mean person.
There is also the possibility that he was just wrong?
Interesting. This can still hold true! It all starts making sense now. The old mugiwara crew just didn't cut it for the NW. Jimbei is the new zoro, ivankov the new sanji, hancock the new robin.
That's probably why Buggy is shaping up to be the new Usopp. Oh wait, Buggy actually has real followers, scratch that.
Didn't Usopp also had real followers? THE USOPP PIRATES…
There is also the possibility that he was just wrong?
Two of the most popular theories about Kuma are there:
He sent the Strawhat crew to places to make them stronger, and
He knows everything.
While I personally can't understand the logic behind these (and agree with you that Kuma was just wrong), no one really knows what is up with Kuma. Not yet.
As for the translation, the "I" is implied like another poster said. Funi's translation is accurate.
Two of the most popular theories about Kuma are there:
He sent the Strawhat crew to places to make them stronger, and
He knows everything.
While I personally can't understand the logic behind these (and agree with you that Kuma was just wrong), no one really knows what is up with Kuma. Not yet.
As for the translation, the "I" is implied like another poster said. Funi's translation is accurate.
so the italian translation from Star Comics is definitely wrong.thank u
Here's how I think the "send people flying" part of Kuma's ability works:
First, we have to remember how he asks the question "If you were to go on a vacation, where would you like to go?"
My theory is that his ability can sense the "theme" of the person, in other words, the overall make-up of the person's personality/thoughts/qualities, then sends the person to a location that suits such a "theme".
Luffy -> Strength. Amazon Lily is an island where "Strength is beauty"
Zoro -> We saw in the latest cover pic that he's at a place with a huge cross and a lot of swords, or if my logic is correct, a graveyard for samurais from a past battle/war. It gives a sense of "honor", "determination", etc etc that a model samurai's supposed to have.
Sanji -> Lust. Pretty obvious there. (Just not the right type for him, unfortunately :P)
Nami -> Curiosity, knowledge, observation.
Robin -> Darkness, imprisonment, historical significance?
Franky -> Perhaps him being a cyborg links him to technology.
Chopper -> Animal pride? You never know… maybe deep down he's still somewhat discriminant towards humans (scar from the past). Maybe by the end of his story, he will stand up for the tribe people. That would definitely be legitimate character development.
Brooke -> He's an undead. He was sent to a summoning ritual. Go figure.
I know it's a wild theory, but I just want to throw it out there.
If it goes according to my theory, then Kuma knew that he sent them to places that suit them. This would be of good intentions because it's like sending them into training courses. If he did it to help them, I think that him saying "we will not see each other again" means that he knows that the consequences of his actions will lead to them not seeing each other again. If he meant good for the Strawhats, obviously "we will not see each other again" can't mean Luffy will die, so by deductive reasoning, Kuma's saying, indirectly, that he will die. This is where we arrive at when Dofla says "he's dead bla bla bla"
Now... physically, we see Kuma very much alive and kicking. Death, in this case, can only mean his mind is dead. So... personality wipe makes sense.
Yeah it's probably something like that, I mean he sent Perona exactly to what she described if I remember correctly. I disagree with your Luffy assessment tho.. he sent Luffy to where he could learn more about haki.
Luffy -> Strength. Amazon Lily is an island where "Strength is beauty"
Zoro -> We saw in the latest cover pic that he's at a place with a huge cross and a lot of swords, or if my logic is correct, a graveyard for samurais from a past battle/war. It gives a sense of "honor", "determination", etc etc that a model samurai's supposed to have.
Sanji -> Lust. Pretty obvious there. (Just not the right type for him, unfortunately :P)
Nami -> Curiosity, knowledge, observation.
Robin -> Darkness, imprisonment, historical significance?
Franky -> Perhaps him being a cyborg links him to technology.
Chopper -> Animal pride? You never know… maybe deep down he's still somewhat discriminant towards humans (scar from the past). Maybe by the end of his story, he will stand up for the tribe people. That would definitely be legitimate character development.
Brooke -> He's an undead. He was sent to a summoning ritual. Go figure.
And what about Usopp? Cowardice because he is on an island where everything is trying to eat him ?
My personal theory is that Kuma sent the Strawhats to places where he thought would hold them for a while, at least until the war is over. When I look at it, only Nami's and Franky's locations really provide clears paths to more power, but every location has something in it that would keep the crew there.
Luffy- How would Kuma know about his potential for Haki? Or think that the Kuja would except him? My guess is that he was hoping that Hancock would stone him.
Zoro- Zoro's another hard one to keep down, but Perona, with her powers, could keep him down and prevent him from leaving.
Nami- Unlike Luffy and Zoro she was sent somewhere that suits her interest. The World Government should know that she's good with weather, so Kuma may have sent her to a place that he thought she would want to stay a little while.
Usopp- Does Kuma think of him as a coward or a brave warrior? Either way his island is full of danger, something to keep a coward running around or a warrior fighting.
Sanji- Prison of pink. That is all.
Chopper- His is like Usopp's. Plenty of danger to keep him busy.
Robin- There almost seems to be a dual purpose here. First, you have a prison situation that would of course hold her for a bit. But then you have a bridge with centuries of history to appeal to her fancies. If Kuma knew about the Revolutionaries heading there, he may have figured that the prison would hold her at first, and then the history would keep her there after she was freed.
Franky- Like Nami, here's a situation where someone was sent to an island with something that would hold their interest for a while.
Brook- Sending a skeleton to an island with a cult and a tribal war. On one hand, he'll be worshipped as a deity. On the other hand, he'll be marked and attacked. So, like Robin, he's between Hell and Heaven.
And what about Usopp? Cowardice because he is on an island where everything is trying to eat him ?
The opposite of cowardice, COURAGE, to try to eat those things that try to eat him.
GO GO GO SUMO WRESTLER USOPP!!!
And what about Usopp? Cowardice because he is on an island where everything is trying to eat him ?
Think Sogeking. Sokeking's a superhero. What's Herackles'n?
Here's the thing I have against Kuma "choosing" where to send them:
He has no info on Nami. How does he know Nami's the navigator? Unless he's been stalking their ship while they were sailing… I don't think it has been brought up to him before (and the outside-SH world only know her as "cat burgler Nami" or whatever her bounty says)
Same thing with Sanji. How does he know he's a pervert without equal?
Another way to think about the theory I described is that the moment he asks "If you were to go on a vacation, where would you like to go?", these words trigger a mental image in the person. They are then sent to the island that fits such a description best, except that it's usually not what the person expects...
Usopp, his mental image may have been a scary scary place, since whenever he thinks of going somewhere he hasn't been to before, the first reaction you see out of him is fear and paranoia. His island is where his paranoid thoughts come true (man-eating everythings)
Sanji's is a place with lots of maidens.
Kuma: Island with lots of maidens coming right up!
Yeah it's probably something like that, I mean he sent Perona exactly to what she described if I remember correctly. I disagree with your Luffy assessment tho.. he sent Luffy to where he could learn more about haki.
But then it's inconsistent with the other crew members. Assuming Kuma wanted Luffy to learn Haki so he sent him to Amazon Lily. I don't think he knows Nami specializes in weather, Brooke in music, or Sanji… how in the world does that island help him in any way 0.o?
well Nami's weapon is weather based, and she's been using it to fight marines for a while now. You've got to assume that information is getting passed between all the powers opposing pirates and criminals.
well Nami's weapon is weather based, and she's been using it to fight marines for a while now. You've got to assume that information is getting passed between all the powers opposing pirates and criminals.
I have to agree. Even after that one Fire Bird Star, Kuma automaticly knew Usopp was Sogeking. Just like it was the WG/Marines who gave Sanji the title "Black Leg" after the events of Enies Lobby, one can only assume that the people who survived that incident were able to give reports on the Straw Hats.
Now how they knew Chopper loved Cotton Candy I can't tell you, or why Nami wasn't called weather wich or something, who knows? But it's obvious information is getting passed around about them. As a matter of fact did even us as readers know Choppers favorite was cotton candy before the bounty and Shakky's confirmation?
Lets not forget Shakky, she seems to know allot about the world of pirates around her. If it's in the news, then of course Kuma could know who is who in the SH crew.
I have to agree that by Kuma asking "If you were to go on a vacation, where would you like to go?" he reads thier minds. It's human nature that when asked a question, the mind automatically searches for an answer, it just up to the individual whether they want to answer or not.
As for the "Never meeting again" I'm guessing he meant himself and Luffy. Although the subject of a sentence is not always required in Japanese, usually for third parties I would guess they would clarify so that no one would be confused. Then again I'm still learning Japanese, I could be wrong.
In Japanese pronouns are rarely used. That's why there's so much room for ambiguity. A lot of the time they use the persons name instead of he or she even if they're talking to them.
I have to agree that by Kuma asking "If you were to go on a vacation, where would you like to go?" he reads thier minds. It's human nature that when asked a question, the mind automatically searches for an answer, it just up to the individual whether they want to answer or not.
As for the "Never meeting again" I'm guessing he meant himself and Luffy. Although the subject of a sentence is not always required in Japanese, usually for third parties I would guess they would clarify so that no one would be confused. Then again I'm still learning Japanese, I could be wrong.
I wouldn't go as far as to say he's "reading their minds", but rather, the ability itself goes through such a process. Kind of like how Hancock doesn't know the perverted thoughts going through people's minds when she mero-meros, but the devil fruit ability reacts to it.
…or Sanji... how in the world does that island help him in any way 0.o?
Leg strength and stamina… he keeps running from something that terrifies him, he'll become stronger and gain more stamina.
At least, that's the theory... >_>
But yeah, not to sound like a parrot here, but I think the "We won't see each other again" line refers specifically to Luffy and Kuma. Honestly, I haven't really thought of it in any other context, and I would hope that it wouldn't be that way (after all, it would really stink if the SHs were never reunited, right?). Current events are most likely going to solidify the case on what his words meant.
Leg strength and stamina… he keeps running from something that terrifies him, he'll become stronger and gain more stamina.
At least, that's the theory... >_>
I meant Kuma's motive in sending him there, not "how it could help him now". You missed the point. The whole question was like… assuming Kuma sent SHs to places he wanted them to go to, how does he think that Sanji's island would help him? I doubt that he planned out that he'd be such a pervert so the okamas would gross him out to the point where he runs like crazy and gains leg strength.
The latest chapter pretty much confirms it…
!
…He was indeed referring to himself. The Italian translators (and me) got it wrong. I still say it was an understandable error to make, though.
@Vegard:
The latest chapter pretty much confirms it…
! http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000234802/06.jpg
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000234802/07.jpg
…He was indeed referring to himself. The Italian translators (and me) got it wrong. I still say it was an understandable error to make, though.
reguardign the question in your sig
it maybe because of your avatar