I think he was talking about where we saw it. It was at the end of 394 I think. Right before they introduce Rayleigh.
FUNimation Simulcast Discussion
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Okay I see it now. "That Haki energy"…. Hmm.. I can't really put my finger on this one. I'm keeping out of this.
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I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but pretty much all terms are dictated by Toei and Viz (especially since they're going ahead of the anime now), so some of the terms I wanted to use before didn't make it through, Haki being one example. I tried to have it changed to Ambition but to no avail. I was able to help get a bunch of weird term inconsistencies and things like that fixed though. But for the most part terms are out of my hands now. Luckily, most of the upcoming terms I've seen have good translations and aren't lame like the 4Kids ones.
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Yay, Mato's back . God, that sucks. So now both Toei AND Viz are the dictators? It's good that most of the upcoming terms are good, though. I don't understand why it has to be left untranslated, though :getlost: .
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So Toei's forcing this Haki shit on us, now?! Jesus Christ, can't these people do one fucking thing right on this localization?! Seriously, everything they've forced on FUNi has been fucking horrible.
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I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but pretty much all terms are dictated by Toei and Viz (especially since they're going ahead of the anime now), so some of the terms I wanted to use before didn't make it through, Haki being one example. I tried to have it changed to Ambition but to no avail. I was able to help get a bunch of weird term inconsistencies and things like that fixed though. But for the most part terms are out of my hands now. Luckily, most of the upcoming terms I've seen have good translations and aren't lame like the 4Kids ones.
So are we stuck with haki no matter what? I mean who makes that decision? Why would they NOT want to translate a word? Do you know if it was Toei or Viz's decision?
Also was the word "Energy" even used in the sentence?
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Mato, thanks for the heads up on that…
I hate it, but if it's forced by Toei then there's nothing to complain about... But... you said you can fight to get these things fixed... didn't work this time... but is there something we can do?... Write Toei?...
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I think that if you send enough POLITE (Sorry, but I must stress this) Emails and Letters expressing your concern they MIGHT listen…
Hey... Does that mean Toei wanted you to use Kami on the DVDS Mato? That would have been AWFUL...
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I think that if you send enough POLITE (Sorry, but I must stress this) Emails and Letters expressing your concern they MIGHT listen…
Hey... Does that mean Toei wanted you to use Kami on the DVDS Mato? That would have been AWFUL...
No, we've already seen the Uncut Dub of Later Skypiea, it's "God" there.
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They probably wanna use the term to appeal to the DBZ/Naruto crowd. Give them a cool-sounding special energy to get 'em excited.
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No, we've already seen the Uncut Dub of Later Skypiea, it's "God" there.
I know, I wanted to know what forced terms were successfully fought back.
I guess Toei wanted the anime and the manga to have the same translations…
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If you're concerned I say yeah, write and/or call Toei and VIZ about this, it's your right as a customer.
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So, Viz, the people who have been backseating One Piece to its more popular series, Naruto and Bleach, hold control over the localization? Why not have Viz dub the whole series while we're at it? Then Yuri Lowenthal and Johnny Yong Bosch can voice everyone and have the Narutards and the Bleeches have fangasms while the real fans die on the inside?
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Well there's plenty of time to get haki changed before the DVDs get there at least :P
but I still want to know if it was Viz or Toei… and why the fuck does Viz get priority over Funi? Funi's doing it RIGHT FFS. -
Uh, doesn't Shueisha, Inc. control the subs for the simulcasts?
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Well there's plenty of time to get haki changed before the DVDs get there at least :P
but I still want to know if it was Viz or Toei… and why the fuck does Viz get priority over Funi? Funi's doing it RIGHT FFS.I'd assume it's because manga > anime in terms of canonness, but it could just be a case of they were here first.
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lol this is the last thing I expected
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…I don't want the pro subs anymore.
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In other good news…
One Piece is back up on Hulu, although it's just episodes 391-393.
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NO IDEA, Probably at least through the First Voyage I'd say. Then it might slow down.
Also, Haki is "Haki Energy", at least in 394.
meh… Nothing wrong with that.:happy:
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Wow, they actually left haki untranslated. Pretty cool.
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Maybe "Haki Energy" will be one of those terms that we will get used to. Frankly, from a consumer standpoint I'll probably never watch the dubs and won't care. Even the subs, if I buy them, will just be because I watched the fansubs and decided to support the show by buying dvd's that I might watch one day.
I think that those who regularly watch funimation's release and see this translation will be accustomed to it, like you said Rin, they'll get "used" to it, and it'll be okay. One Piece has been going on a long time, and I think I may have had a unique experience just getting into it a month or two ago. But on the whole scope of things this probably won't have a big impact, on anything.
But my question is, what's the point of the stream. If the point of the stream is to cater to the television audience of One Piece, I think this translation is great. However, if these said people are computer savvy enough to watch the stream, they probably have been accustomed to fansubs too, and have become part of the regular release community and be part of the fansub community too. On this topic, if the purpose of the stream was to garner fansubs watchers to go on over and watch the stream, then this might be an issue. Because the "words" used will be off, and seem strange to us. Instead of watching the simucast, most will probably wait a day or two to get the HD release from some group, and it won't seem strange or off.
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In other good news…
One Piece is back up on Hulu, although it's just episodes 391-393.
Cool. No buffering problems here. I'll watch here from now on.
edit: Is it my bad memory or are there some scenes I never seen before….
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….What?! This isn't a matter of "getting used to it," it's wrong. Actually wrong, as in the fact that the word "energy" isn't even used here. At the very least not in that context. This is an out-and-out mistranslation that needs to be fixed, what with these being professionals and all.
Seriously, can Toei just fuggin' stop even getting involved in the translation process?! They do nothing but fuck everything up. Now FUNi has another problem to deal with thanks to them. As if the names of half the cast weren't enough…
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It was ENTIRELY untranslated, without even a NOTE!!
Now, it doesn't MEAN anything, it's just "Haki Energy".
At least Fansubbers put a NOTE!! Now the scene where it's revealed…
! Luffy has the Ambition of a King
Won't make sense.
Speaking of which, That episode comes out in a few days, Mato's probably done it already.
Are you guys forced to keep "Haoushoku" in Japanese too?I have faith the dub will translate it though… They translated it in Jaya when Blackbeard made that remark...
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….What?! This isn't a matter of "getting used to it," it's wrong. Actually wrong, as in the fact that the word "energy" isn't even used here. At the very least not in that context. This is an out-and-out mistranslation that needs to be fixed, what with these being professionals and all.
I think the original IP holders have the right to call it whatever they want. It's the right of the creator. Even if the Japanese was different, and the English completely holds a different meaning, as the IP holders is in their right. Of course, as viewers we are completely in the right to scorn them for it.
I don't know Japanese so I'll just have to trust you on it that the translation is wrong, if it is, then it should be fixed. But if the original IP holders wants to call it that, then that's all there is to it, and we have to get used to it. Unless we petition, but, I don't think it's a big enough issue to warrant all the screaming a bout.
After reading Demon Rin's post, I guess it's all moot because the dubbers will fix it. Ah, well.
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Toei didn't create OP though, Oda did. If they want to blindly dictate a bunch of terms they should at least put it past Oda.
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It was ENTIRELY untranslated, without even a NOTE!!
Now, it doesn't MEAN anything, it's just "Haki Energy".
At least Fansubbers put a NOTE!! Now the scene where it's revealed…
! Luffy has the Ambition of a King
Won't make sense.
Speaking of which, That episode comes out in a few days, Mato's probably done it already.
Are you guys forced to keep "Haoushoku" in Japanese too?I have faith the dub will translate it though… They translated it in Jaya when Blackbeard made that remark...
Because at that point they didnt know that it was supposed to be a "mystical DBZ-esque energy". But I still stand for "force/drive of ambition" "Ambition energy" is just as stupid.
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but what's the point for the viewer to see haki energy when they dont even know what Haki is
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but what's the point for the viewer to see haki energy when they dont even know what Haki is
EXACTLY!!
Even the Fansubber gets it…
I mean, Toei forced this one so I can live with it... but uugh... just uugh...
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Even the Fansubber gets it…
Comments like that are why I'm unsympathetic to your cause. Which is a shame since I agree that "haki energy" isn't the correct translation.
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Toei may hold the rights, but whoever is making these decisions is an idiot. Possibly needs a new job…
FUNi, the fanbase is pissed. We know you know. Now you know. And we'd like to know that you know, so that we know that you know that we know.
Seriously, guys. Dropped the ball. You're FUNimation, more is expected of you!
Comments like that are why I'm unsympathetic to your cause. Which is a shame since I agree that "haki energy" is the correct translation.
She's saying it ISN'T correct. Which it isn't. No word for "energy" is used, let alone the haki bullshit.
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Comments like that are why I'm unsympathetic to your cause. Which is a shame since I agree that "haki energy" is the correct translation.
Why? What's wrong with what I said?
Even the Fansubber posting in this thread, the fan translating the series for, IE the other major source of translated One Piece agrees Haki should be translated.
What's wrong with saying that?
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She's saying it ISN'T correct. Which it isn't. No word for "energy" is used, let alone the haki bullshit.
My bad. I meant to say it isn't the correct translation.
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There's nothing wrong with what Rin said.
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I still wana know what was wrong with my comment. Why it makes you "Unsympathetic" to my "Cause".
All I'm saying is that the Fansubber posting in this thread, IE one of the people the fans trusted to translate the series before the Simulcast came back, agrees with me.
Why is that bad?
EDIT: ^ See? If what I said was so horrible, why does fdein himself say there wasn't anything wrong with it?…
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Just ignore them : /
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Not like you should ruin the surprise, Mato, but are there any other fun surprises waiting?
As for haki energy, I think this one may be done by Viz. If I recall correctly, a lot of the terms Toei tried to force came from what 4kids made up.
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but what's the point for the viewer to see haki energy when they dont even know what Haki is
I think it's implied in the scene. There was a burst of energy from Rayleigh that knocked out the marines, and the source of the energy was Haki. Now that I think about it I get your point.
However, has Haki ever been explained in the series? It's translated as ambition. Am I correct here? Because Binktopia, the scanlators of the manga releases I read, don't translate it. Is ambition really what haki means when put into the context of the show? That Rayleighs "ambition" is what caused everyone to feint. If it is, then the energy that was release by Rayleigh is called ambition, or ambition energy?
Now that I think about it, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the series might be taking an everyday word, and putting new meaning on it. Like let's say "substance" in chemistry, compared to everyday speech. That it takes it's own definition based in the show. If I'm correct here, which seems rather shaky thinking about it, then would it even matter what it's called when it's subbed in a different language? Haki simply gets defined in the show, even if it has a different meaning in another language, since even in that language the word Haki is being superimposed by a different definition. Am I correct in my interpretation of how "Haki" is used in Japanese?
I still wana know what was wrong with my comment. Why it makes you "Unsympathetic" to my "Cause".
I think it's because you are very informed on the subject, having known Japanese, and you state your views so strongly that it comes off as I would say intellectual snobbery, you mean well I think, and the effect comes off unintentionally.
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I understand there's always words like this in One Piece. The mistake here is not adding a translation note. I dont mind people reading haki if they understand it.
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Maybe Toei Animation or whoever never thought there was a point to understanding what exactly haki is.
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Here's my stance:
I told my BF about this and he said that "willpower energy" or "ambition energy" makes no sense. First of all, I don't think the word energy was even used, so it'd just be "That was your ambition" right? He says that doesn't make sense either… so they just kept it untranslated. I said it wouldn't make sense in Japanese either.
First off, how is using the original Japanese term any less confusing? It's NOT explained what it is so it makes no sense.
Second of all, Oda wrote Haki, so he wants the term to be ambition/willpower. That's what Oda wanted, that's why he wrote it that way. If he wanted it to be a magical tearm that only OP used, he would have made up a word. But no, he used a word with an English translation because he wanted that word to be used.
So, no using haki makes no sense on a number of levels. I am going to talk to Toei or whoever the hell I need to about it. There's still tons of time before this episode reaches DVD, so there's plenty of time to fix the mistake. I just hope Toei can get it into their thick skulls.
If this is what's instore for the simulcast, I won't be watching. I like my subtitles in ENGLISH, thank you.
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Seriously, Toei… Just let FUNi do their thing. They're much better at this than you.
Also, I won't be contacting Toei, for obvious reasons. I'm too damn honest, I'd just be way too harsh and would just end up being detrimental to the whole thing.
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Here's my stance:
If this is what's instore for the simulcast, I won't be watching. I like my subtitles in ENGLISH, thank you.
Nnoooo, YOU CAN'T DO THAT! As a fan you MUST support the official releaseq!! :sad: :sad:
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I'll still buy the DVDs :P
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Here's my stance:
Second of all, Oda wrote Haki, so he wants the term to be ambition/willpower. That's what Oda wanted, that's why he wrote it that way. If he wanted it to be a magical tearm that only OP used, he would have made up a word. But no, he used a word with an English translation because he wanted that word to be used.
I don't want to derail the thread but on this issue so I apologize beforehand if this seems too OT.
I think that the connotative part of the meaning of a word depends upon cultures. That a word isn't just its literal meaning. And I think an accurate translation could only come from someone who knows both cultures pretty well, so that a person who understands Japanese culture would know what haki is intended to mean in English.
A good example I think is the word you gave an example of: willpower/ambition.
The word meanings according to Webster:
Willpower:
-energetic determinationAmbition:
- an ardent desire for rank, fame, or power b : desire to achieve a particular end
- the object of ambition <her ambition="" is="" to="" start="" her="" own="" business="">- a desire for activity or exertion <felt sick="" and="" had="" no="" ambition="">In the end they do mean two completely different things. And would be incorrect if used in place of another. I think I maybe picking at things here too much though. Does correct word usage even matter if the pragmatic effect of the word is reached?
What I am thinking is:
What's up dawg?
Where dawg is slang for a friend or some other acquaintance. To translate that into a way an Australian might be more comfortable with:
How's it going mate?
I think I'm wrong here, because cultural reference is lost. I mean we have different images that come to our mind when someone says "What's up dawg?" We think more than likely of a black person, where "How's it going mate?" we think of a white male probably of Australian decent. I think I might be stretching it here, but is it okay in translation to do what I just did? That is complete change the meaning of what's being said so it's in a manner more comfortable with the target audience, but completely incorrect in terms of cultural origin. I mean this is where a see a hole in my argument of pragmatic effect, in that, the pragmatic effect is reached, in that the verbage is put in a way a target audience understands but is totally inaccurate to the cultural environment in which the word was used. But I'm quite aware I'm not translating between languages, well, even that is a tough pill to swallow because of how language is interpreted.
Again my bad for derailing the thread, but I think there's a lot going on in what everyone is saying about language and more specifically the correct translation of the word 'haki'.</felt></her>
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Nnoooo, YOU CAN'T DO THAT! As a fan you MUST support the official releaseq!! :sad: :sad:
Not syaing I'm gonna snub FUNi or anything (far from it), but that's not exactly the case, y'know. Just lookit Viz's shity manga translations, and their lack of many fans' money. Shmeckie's included.
Unless you're being sarcastic, which I can't tell, because this is the internet, and I'm tired, and by all reason should be in bed by now…
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Don't worry it's sarcasm : )
And VIZ makes plenty of money off fans, just look at what they're doing.
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Hmm you know that's true ElectricField I didn't think about that, but you said:
Does correct word usage even matter if the pragmatic effect of the word is reached?
And this is lost when they don't explain what it is…