Neither Luffy nor Hancock fit the latter category anyway
I'm not quite clear, here. Do you still hold to your first impression, or are you saying that your impression has changed? I'm confused. (Insert Welcome Back Kotter Vid Clip here.)
Neither Luffy nor Hancock fit the latter category anyway
I'm not quite clear, here. Do you still hold to your first impression, or are you saying that your impression has changed? I'm confused. (Insert Welcome Back Kotter Vid Clip here.)
See, that's the problem, you're painting the idea as black and white just because Hancock seems to be able to use it that way (which I argue is due to combining it with her fruit powers). Forcing your will onto someone doesn't necessarily mean that it would shut out their own. It would only work if your will was stronger. Commanding someone at will would be impossible because it wouldn't take long for the person to want to resist more than you would want to control them.
Kinda seems like you are dodging the question. If all we have seen is knock out, resistance headache, minor obedience, and complete obedience, then how would Luffy ever make use of it? Knocking people out or giving them headaches all the time is lame. Minor obedience would be lame. Complete obedience would be lame. And again, you got all of this because she set Margaret down in surprise. Art doesn't lie, they are all shocked and worried, even Hancock. What she says in follow up is disbelief, shock, terror. Forget the words, look at the art! Bottom panels, shock; second and bottom panels, disbelief; first three panels, shock, fear, and disbelief.
I don't understand how "He has the quality of a king, meant to stand on the shoulders of other men!!" can be easily stupified down to "wtf no way!"
O_O <– her facial expression. Following that are sweat drops on every single character shown. These mean shock, disbelief, fear, concern, etc. I mean, how does that sentence even remotely equate to "Must Obey!" Is she a robot, stating what her new master is? =P
Aha, I had to look it up but I found it. So basically we just confirmed that she has the ability to order people around without her fruit powers which strengthens my theory.
Uh…no. All it means she has the ability to order people around due to her looks even without using the Mero Fruit.
Just like a lot of comics do.
All this debate made me really refine this stupid theory so here it is. I think Haoushoku Haki allows a person to transfer their will to another person. This does not mean that the will of the other person is negated. Rather the will has to be strong enough to overpower the will of the other person, or the other person has to be willing to obey.
That sounds like some Jedi Mind trick…
In Hancock's case, she can make people love her so that they aren't reluctant to obey. Seastone hasn't been shown to stop the powers of haki. Magellan just wanted to get his rocks off.
Thank you for bringing up the Magellan case. It's now clear that Hancock doesn't get people to obey her blindly solely due to her fruit powers.
She does it with her own beauty. Not Ambition.
Again, it's an exaggerated concept of that if a girl is pretty enough she doesn't have to lift a finger since everyone else is more than willing to do everything for her.
@_Meh_:
I'm not quite clear, here. Do you still hold to your first impression, or are you saying that your impression has changed? I'm confused.
I'm saying that I understand how people can use the description to further their argument about the whole mind control thing. But to me, that's just forcing an idea on something that doesn't need it. Basically, Luffy and Hancock dominate by power, not politics. They conquer with force, not words. Haki being a tool for fighting, and this type clearly being the rarest of the rare (implying most powerful), it makes sense that the name describes someone who conquers with power. Ehh, I'm having trouble focusing, this is far too many words for such a simple thought. Hopefully this gets my point across. @_@
She does it with her own beauty.
Not Ambition.
Even I agree with that.
Kinda seems like you are dodging the question. If all we have seen is knock out, resistance headache, minor obedience, and complete obedience, then how would Luffy ever make use of it? Knocking people out or giving them headaches all the time is lame. Minor obedience would be lame. Complete obedience would be lame. And again, you got all of this because she set Margaret down in surprise. Art doesn't lie, they are all shocked and worried, even Hancock. What she says in follow up is disbelief, shock, terror. Forget the words, look at the art! Bottom panels, shock; second and bottom panels, disbelief; first three panels, shock, fear, and disbelief.
O_O <– her facial expression. Following that are sweat drops on every single character shown. These mean shock, disbelief, fear, concern, etc. I mean, how does that sentence even remotely equate to "Must Obey!" Is she a robot, stating what her new master is? =P
I wasn't dodging the question so much as I don't really have a good answer for the question. Thinking about it, it does make for kind of a lame "shit hit the fan, so I need a quick save" type of thing. I've never claimed to be a writer, though, so I have no idea.
I'm certainly not denying the shock and disbelief, etc. I'm just taking the words that Oda gave us, since he must have given us some hint on what this thing is in my mind. The ability to stand over other people is really all I have to work with.
As it stands, my best guess is that it's some form of command ability with serious limitations. Your best guess is that he just has access to every other haki ability in the universe. I don't know that there is any way that I can prove my case, but at the rate we're going you're certainly not going to change my mind (your theory isn't swimming in evidence either).
Uh…no. All it means she has the ability to order people around due to her looks even without using the Mero Fruit.
Just like a lot of comics do.
So your argument is that a hot girl is enough, by itself, for the chief warden of Impel Down to stop caring about his jail. Ok, fine. I wont say that it's impossible (we did see that kind of thing work on Hannyabal I suppose). I just find it a bit… unlikely? lame? I dunno, something.
That sounds like some Jedi Mind trick…
Not to me, but I'm willing to agree to disagree at this point since I'm about out of ammo and I'm just going to wind up repeating myself.
She does it with her own beauty.
Not Ambition.
Here is me repeating myself.
I'm saying that I understand how people can use the description to further their argument about the whole mind control thing. But to me, that's just forcing an idea on something that doesn't need it. Basically, Luffy and Hancock dominate by power, not politics. They conquer with force, not words. Haki being a tool for fighting, and this type clearly being the rarest of the rare (implying most powerful), it makes sense that the name describes someone who conquers with power. Ehh, I'm having trouble focusing, this is far too many words for such a simple thought. Hopefully this gets my point across. @_@
1. You got the point across, but a simple "No, I've changed my position." would have sufficed.
2. It is not a simple thought. Thoughts involving the interactions between humans, even fictional ones, based on perceptions, emotions, and unstated motivations are never simple. I applaud you for doing such a good job at it.
I'm saying that I understand how people can use the description to further their argument about the whole mind control thing. But to me, that's just forcing an idea on something that doesn't need it. Basically, Luffy and Hancock dominate by power, not politics. They conquer with force, not words. Haki being a tool for fighting, and this type clearly being the rarest of the rare (implying most powerful), it makes sense that the name describes someone who conquers with power. Ehh, I'm having trouble focusing, this is far too many words for such a simple thought. Hopefully this gets my point across. @_@
So your argument is that a hot girl is enough, by itself, for the chief warden of Impel Down to stop caring about his jail. Ok, fine. I wont say that it's impossible (we did see that kind of thing work on Hannyabal I suppose).
Pretty much yeah.
I mean we've seen that an idiot goofball is enough, by itself, for the thief more than willing to sell out pirates(Nami), an assassin that has left every organization she's been in to rot(Robin) and the ice cold Pirate Empress leader of the Kuja(Hancock) to change in the span of a couple days/weeks among other things.
That's just One Piece.
I'm certainly not denying the shock and disbelief, etc. I'm just taking the words that Oda gave us, since he must have given us some hint on what this thing is in my mind. The ability to stand over other people is really all I have to work with.
But she is simply stating the obvious for us, the readers. The name implies, but does not say out right, that the ability is powerful and belongs to someone who can/will dominate by force. Essentially, someone special and meant for greatness.
As it stands, my best guess is that it's some form of command ability with serious limitations. Your best guess is that he just has access to every other haki ability in the universe. I don't know that there is any way that I can prove my case, but at the rate we're going you're certainly not going to change my mind (your theory isn't swimming in evidence either).
Well here's the thing, I am completely aware that Oda left us almost 100% in the dark about the ability. For that reason, I am making admittedly baseless guesses. Since I do not care to see more magical abilities than we already have, simply having access to all the ones seen thus far certainly would make for a powerful leader, so that's my guess. Or hope. I dunno. Any other 'theory' would simply be, "it's the strongest type", and that is pretty much concrete per the manga.
So your argument is that a hot girl is enough, by itself, for the chief warden of Impel Down to stop caring about his jail.
Remember how Oda likes to tie things together? Hancock isn't just some "hot girl", she is known WORLD WIDE for being even more beautiful than Mermaids, the otherwise most beautiful creatures in the world. Oda had already established this point, which makes her being able to manipulate people with the sway of her hips understandable. Remember the hair behind the ears? That's her using her body, no haki, not her Devil's Fruit. Remember Marigold and Sonia question Luffy's resistance to her naked body? Haki, fruit, or body?
Well, I tried my best to tie everything we've been given into something concrete but I was unsuccessful. I fold. Well played, you two.
I'll hold onto my theory for now but I'll admit that it's still very much in question. At least we can agree that it's not the ability to knock people out.
@_Meh_:
I applaud you for doing such a good job at it.
Thanks, I think. Though I was referring to your point number one, that I could have simply said one sentence.
Wait what? I must be really tired, because I am getting confused here. Let me spell it out just in case: I don't think the name is referring to or alluding to the ability of mind control. I think that the argument that it is would be silly, attempting to tack meaning that isn't there or isn't necessary. In short, the name is referring to their willpower and potential in life. Nevermind. I really am tired. -____-;
I'm agreeing with you brennen. Anyway was a good discussion with you and Urouge.
I'm calling it a night and will leave with this.
Ahh, thank you! You just jogged my memory about Luffy's seemingly empathic powers of observation that were popping up constantly in the early chapters. Okay, the "has access to ALL the types of mind abilities" argument is gaining my support now.
I'm agreeing with you brennen.
lol, yeah, once I actually looked at the picture and stopped reading the words, I figured it out. Talk about ironic, considering I was just preaching about art speaking more than words sometimes. Bahaha. Anyway, I wrote something up that I wanted to close with; hidden for being a bit…large:
[hide]VOTE!!
BLACKBEARD!!!![/hide]
I just want to say… damn you all.
I spark an interesting discussion with Urouge and then I leave thinking the thread is dead and then I come back and missed out on a fun debate.
Damn you all to hell. I never get to be part of these exchanges.
I didn't even get to destroy Urouge's half-assed response. (although I do mean it respectfully)
Edit: By the way, Kudos to Meh for being a master online orator.
I see KI type haki in the future.
That was a great argument between you 3 :)
I also agree that its just beauty, no need to exagerate.
However, contrary to you 3, I really think that Shanks,Rayleigh and Luffy have Haoshouko Haki.
I mean.. why not?
Also, Urouge:
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1238544&postcount=624
Please answer :3
Also, I want to add something to this discussion.
While I do not believe that Shanks and Rayleigh have Haoshoku, some people are saying this is impossible or that they wouldn't like it because if Haoshoku is so rare then how come everyone seems to have it.
Well, actually you could use the same argument against that. It would be all the more reasonable that the few peole who do have it stand at the top of the world. Think about it. What if knocking people out is an inherent trait of the Haoshoku? Is it really all that impossible? We've seen it on 4 people, out of the millions or billions living in the One Piece world, and it just so happens that all of them are tremendously powerful. If anything, these people are standing at the top of the world (Boa, Shanks, Rayleigh) because they are conquerors. Just because we've seen the people that have it does not mean it stopped being rare.
It's the DF in grand line argument all over again. People were bitching about all the crewmembers in WB crew having a DF, and how now everyone has a DF but they forgot to factor in the HUNDRED THOUSAND regular marines just standing there, as well as the millions of civilians living in the world.
In the set "characters we've seen" the Haoshoku might not be that rare, but were talking about the most powerful people in the planet. However, in the set "all the people in the world" it is most definately rare. Boa was talking about this last group(all the people in the world) when she said that "one in a million" can have it, and she probably was right. Same as DFs, only rarer.
That's just my 2 cents, because people seem to bitch about it a lot. If the population of the One Piece planet is, say, 1 billion, then there would have to be 1000 Haoshoku users. If anything, we should be surprised we didn't see more. Of course this is all assuming that knocking people out is haoshoku exclusive.
And for the last time, I do not believe that.
Also, Urouge:
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1238544&postcount=624Please answer :3
I apologize for being cruel, but since you've called me out I have little choice in the matter. I have no interest in debating with you because you've proven to me in other threads that you are stubborn and unreasonable. Also, I find your posts to be very bloated with unnecessary information and baseless conjecture that I would have to read through if I were to debate with you in length, and I'm just not interested in that. If I intended to respond, then I would have done so last night. My one post was enough for me, and I don't really care if you still choose to disagree, sorry.
Well, actually you could use the same argument against that. It would be all the more reasonable that the few peole who do have it stand at the top of the world. Think about it. What if knocking people out is an inherent trait of the Haoshoku? Is it really all that impossible?
It's pretty early for me and I'm tired so I'm not going to give this a full and proper response but it's possible that this one simple point will be enough to convince you so I'll throw it out there for now.
Rayleigh was a first mate and always played second fiddle to Roger throughout his career from what we understand. It would be demeaning to the title of the "overlord/king" brand of haki for someone who wasn't in charge to wield it.
It's pretty early for me and I'm tired so I'm not going to give this a full and proper response but it's possible that this one simple point will be enough to convince you so I'll throw it out there for now.
Rayleigh was a first mate and always played second fiddle to Roger throughout his career from what we understand. It would be demeaning to the title of the "overlord/king" brand of haki for someone who wasn't in charge to wield it.
Weird how you say it's demeaning for Rayleigh to have a king type haki when Rayleigh is known as the Dark "King".
Why has no one alluded to that fact that Luffy having the power to force his will on others is totally out of character?
Weird how you say it's demeaning for Rayleigh to have a king type haki when Rayleigh is known as the Dark "King".
Yes, I've considered this point as well, but in the end it's only a nickname. The point I'm making is that Rayleigh was in a position of following orders. It seems silly to me that someone who would put themselves in a position to follow orders would have the ambition of an "overlord/king" (the person who gives the orders).
Apparently, his haki "leveled up"?
Yes, I've considered this point as well, but in the end it's only a nickname. The point I'm making is that Rayleigh was in a position of following orders. It seems silly to me that someone who would put themselves in a position to follow orders would have the ambition of an "overlord/king" (the person who gives the orders).
You don't necessary have to be at the highest level to give orders. You can give out orders even as a second in command since you are above all the other crew mates below you. He probably decided to follow Roger for some reason instead of being the captain. If Luffy told Boa to do something. She'll do it. She won't all of a sudden lose her haoushou haki.
And say for the sake of the argument "Dark King" is just a nickname. Whatever it is they regard him as the king of it.
Why has no one alluded to that fact that Luffy having the power to force his will on others is totally out of character?
zkaiser always the pessimist (yea i could have used spell check if i wanted to)
Have you not thought of it like this
King a man who never allows his will to be forced below others
Luffy king haki is in character considering no one can stop luffy when he puts his mind on things (well obviously those stronger than him)
Also, I want to add something to this discussion.
While I do not believe that Shanks and Rayleigh have Haoshoku, some people are saying this is impossible or that they wouldn't like it because if Haoshoku is so rare then how come everyone seems to have it.
Well, actually you could use the same argument against that. It would be all the more reasonable that the few peole who do have it stand at the top of the world. Think about it. What if knocking people out is an inherent trait of the Haoshoku? Is it really all that impossible? We've seen it on 4 people, out of the millions or billions living in the One Piece world, and it just so happens that all of them are tremendously powerful. If anything, these people are standing at the top of the world (Boa, Shanks, Rayleigh) because they are conquerors. Just because we've seen the people that have it does not mean it stopped being rare.
It's the DF in grand line argument all over again. People were bitching about all the crewmembers in WB crew having a DF, and how now everyone has a DF but they forgot to factor in the HUNDRED THOUSAND regular marines just standing there, as well as the millions of civilians living in the world.
In the set "characters we've seen" the Haoshoku might not be that rare, but were talking about the most powerful people in the planet. However, in the set "all the people in the world" it is most definately rare. Boa was talking about this last group(all the people in the world) when she said that "one in a million" can have it, and she probably was right. Same as DFs, only rarer.
That's just my 2 cents, because people seem to bitch about it a lot. If the population of the One Piece planet is, say, 1 billion, then there would have to be 1000 Haoshoku users. If anything, we should be surprised we didn't see more. Of course this is all assuming that knocking people out is haoshoku exclusive.
And for the last time, I do not believe that.
It's pretty early for me and I'm tired so I'm not going to give this a full and proper response but it's possible that this one simple point will be enough to convince you so I'll throw it out there for now.
Rayleigh was a first mate and always played second fiddle to Roger throughout his career from what we understand. It would be demeaning to the title of the "overlord/king" brand of haki for someone who wasn't in charge to wield it.
You answered against a point that I wasn't even trying to make. I just said that it wasn't impossible to suggest that, not that I believed it. And even so, even a conqueror can look up to someone. In any case, if someone with Haoshoku follows another man, then it's all the more impressive and a huge merit for the man who commands such a force of will. But you're oversimplifying the characterization of the conqueror as a man who necessarily leads. Perhaps Rayleigh simply realized (on a subconscious level) that the best place to discover and conquer was beside such a man as Roger.
And also, a big argument against you is that remember when Luffy talked to Rayleigh, and Rayleigh asked why Luffy wanted to CONQUER the ocean, and Luffy said he didn't, that he just wanted to be the man with the most freedom? Well, there you have it. A man that has Haoshoku (luffy) does not want to conquer anything. So perhaps it isn't as simple as just fitting a type of haki to a personality and call it a day.
Yes, I've considered this point as well, but in the end it's only a nickname. The point I'm making is that Rayleigh was in a position of following orders. It seems silly to me that someone who would put themselves in a position to follow orders would have the ambition of an "overlord/king" (the person who gives the orders).
Yes I realize, but aside from the above statement, he may have sided with Roger because he couldn't beat him, and then ended up befriending him. It is not above an overlord kind of guy (if it is your logic that he must be a leader) to have powerful allies. And also, it's not like the position of First Mate never has you giving orders anyway.
Eh, it sounded to me like you were looking for reasons as to why it was unreasonable for Rayleigh and Shanks to have Haoushoku, so I threw one out quick. I also said that it may or may not be enough to convince you. It apparently wasn't enough, so whatever.
If you want me to start being picky about the things you type rather than respond to the context, then Haoushoku is in one out of several million, not one out of one million (I believe).
If you're asking for reasons to why a specific reason isn't unreasonable, well, I just don't know what to say.
Eh, it sounded to me like you were looking for reasons as to why it was unreasonable for Rayleigh and Shanks to have Haoushoku, so I threw one out quick. I also said that it may or may not be enough to convince you. It apparently wasn't enough, so whatever.
If you want me to start being picky about the things you type rather than respond to the context, then Haoushoku is in one out of several million, not one out of one million (I believe).
Sorry, but the last response unnerved me because it didn't look like you had taken the context of my actual point of view. I was actually backing you up. I don't think that Rayleigh has Haoshoku, but at this point we don't know.
And I didn't know about that several million thing. Well, then drop that number to anywhere in between 333 to 2.
Edit: I have to leave. Save something for me.
Eh, it sounded to me like you were looking for reasons as to why it was unreasonable for Rayleigh and Shanks to have Haoushoku, so I threw one out quick. I also said that it may or may not be enough to convince you. It apparently wasn't enough, so whatever.
If you want me to start being picky about the things you type rather than respond to the context, then Haoushoku is in one out of several million, not one out of one million (I believe).
Regardless of what the exact wording is more and more people are going to end up having it since we are reaching the point where the best of the best reside in the New World. People with the highest ambitions live. If people think it's only going to be Boa and Luffy since it's rare is fooling themselves like the whole WB isn't a DF user nonsense. Hell all 4 Yonkou's most likely have it.
As for Rayleigh having it. He might, he might not. We don't know enough about haoushou haki to say who has it and who doesn't.
Sorry, but the last response unnerved me because it didn't look like you had taken the context of my actual point of view. I was actually backing you up. I don't think that Rayleigh has Haoshoku, but at this point we don't know.
And I didn't know about that several million thing. Well, then drop that number to anywhere in between 333 to 2.
Edit: I have to leave. Save something for me.
I'm more than aware of what you believe since you blatantly stated it in your post (I do read them). As I said, I was just tossing a supporting reason out because it seemed like you were looking for some.
Regardless of what the exact wording is more and more people are going to end up having it since we are reaching the point where the best of the best reside in the New World. People with the highest ambitions live. If people think it's only going to be Boa and Luffy since it's rare is fooling themselves like the whole WB isn't a DF user nonsense. Hell all 4 Younkou's most likely have it.
I'd never make the claim that Hancock and Luffy are the only two in the whole world who possess it, and I fully expect that we'll see other people who do so in the future. That doesn't mean that everyone who has had the word "haki" applied to them before Amazon Lily had to possess the Haoushoku, though, which is what the case would be. I find it to be fairly clear now that we've seen instances of haki in Skypeia and Enies Lobby, but the word didn't associate with those instances back during those arcs.
It just seems to me that the ambition of a king should only apply to those that have the ambition to be a king (Hancock and Luffy both apply to this, Hancock just on a smaller scale). Whitebeard, now, it seems may not have the ambition to be the Pirate King in particular. Therefore, I don't believe that he has the Haoushoku. Again, there are reasons beyond this. This is just one single quick and simple reason that I'm tossing out for the sake of argument, and I don't expect it be the ultimate answer.
I just hope that haoshoku manifests uniquely since there will be other users.
Regardless of what the exact wording is more and more people are going to end up having it since we are reaching the point where the best of the best reside in the New World. People with the highest ambitions live. If people think it's only going to be Boa and Luffy since it's rare is fooling themselves like the whole WB isn't a DF user nonsense. Hell all 4 Yonkou's most likely have it.
Except that Ace is indeed one of those "best of the best" yet he wasn't capable of using Ambition, and Teach's apparent lack of it as well in spite of him being hyped up as the major threat. Along with Oda's statement about how big a bounty Ener would have in the Blue Seas had he been there instead of the Sky Islands, and logia-type Power Users in general wouldn't be such a problem if that wasn't the case.
That's one of the(many) problems I'm seeing: people are automatically assuming that as soon as Luffy and co. get to the second half that Ambiton will be everywhere. It isn't some prerequisite to being able to succeed in the New World. Even among the powerhouse characters the ones capable of utilizing Ambition is going to be a rarity. And amongst those few there are only two who have the Overlord aspect of it, Luffy and Hancock.
I'd never make the claim that Hancock and Luffy are the only two in the whole world who possess it, and I fully expect that we'll see other people who do so in the future. That doesn't mean that everyone who has had the word "haki" applied to them before Amazon Lily had to possess the Haoushoku, though, which is what the case would be. I find it to be fairly clear now that we've seen instances of haki in Skypeia and Enies Lobby, but the word didn't associate with those instances back during those arcs.
It just seems to me that the ambition of a king should only apply to those that have the ambition to be a king (Hancock and Luffy both apply to this, Hancock just on a smaller scale). Whitebeard, now, it seems may not have the ambition to be the Pirate King in particular. Therefore, I don't believe that he has the Haoushoku. Again, there are reasons beyond this. This is just one single quick and simple reason that I'm tossing out for the sake of argument, and I don't expect it be the ultimate answer.
Well if you go with the knocking out ability that Luffy did at AL as a innate haoushoku haki ability then the two people who did it before AL have it (Shanks and Rayleigh). With Boa and Luffy being confirmed. That would be only 4 people shown so far. 2 only pre AL. The whole everyone having haoushoku haki pre AL like it's 50 people is being extremely overblown when in fact it would be a amount of people you can count on one hand.
Well if you go with the knocking out ability that Luffy did at AL as a innate haoushoku haki ability then the two people who did it before AL have it (Shanks and Rayleigh).
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't read the last couple of pages where that was already discussed.
That would be only 4 people shown so far. 2 only pre AL. The whole everyone having haoushoku haki like it's 50 people is being extremely overblown.
No one thinks like 50 people have it so what's your point.
Except that Ace is indeed one of those "best of the best" yet he wasn't capable of using Ambition, and Teach's apparent lack of it as well in spite of him being hyped up as the major threat. Along with Oda's statement about how big a bounty Ener would have in the Blue Seas had he been there instead of the Sky Islands, and logia-type Power Users in general wouldn't be such a problem if that wasn't the case.
That's one of the(many) problems I'm seeing: people are automatically assuming that as soon as Luffy and co. get to the second half that Ambiton will be everywhere. It isn't some prerequisite to being able to succeed in the New World. Even among the powerhouse characters the ones capable of utilizing Ambition is going to be a rarity. And amongst those few there are only two who have the Overlord aspect of it, Luffy and Hancock.
I hope that you're right because statistically speaking even if all the Yonkou have haoshoku then it would still be rare technically but it wouldn't feel that way.
I'm certain each of the Emperors are able to use Ambition; they just don't have the Overlord aspect of it.
I'm going to guess that one of the four Yonkou have Haoushoku (one of the two we haven't been introduced to yet).
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't read the last couple of pages where that was already discussed.
No one thinks like 50 people have it so what's your point.
I read the last couple of pages. I agree with the whole Skypiea and CP9 having haki similar abilites. As for the haoushoku haki arguement. We don't know enough about it to say really for sure. If what the Amazon Lily saw as overlord haki was the knocking out part or the sister putting down the statue and determined he had that particular haki type. If it was the knocking out part then Shanks and Rayleigh would fit. If it was just supposed to be from the sister putting down the statue it would exclude the two.
As for the 50 comment. Urogue said that would mean everyone shown pre AL that has haki has the haoushoku haki ability. I clarified to him it's was only Shanks and Rayleigh who did the knocking out stuff aside from Luffy. Not everyone which makes it sound like a whole lot.
Originally Posted by Vanessa
_Except that Ace is indeed one of those "best of the best" yet he wasn't capable of using Ambition, and Teach's apparent lack of it as well in spite of him being hyped up as the major threat. Along with Oda's statement about how big a bounty Ener would have in the Blue Seas had he been there instead of the Sky Islands, and logia-type Power Users in general wouldn't be such a problem if that wasn't the case.That's one of the(many) problems I'm seeing: people are automatically assuming that as soon as Luffy and co. get to the second half that Ambiton will be everywhere. It isn't some prerequisite to being able to succeed in the New World. Even among the powerhouse characters the ones capable of utilizing Ambition is going to be a rarity. And amongst those few there are only two who have the Overlord aspect of it, Luffy and Hancock._
I was saying there'll be more people will have the overlord haki in the New World since the Best of the Best reside there. Not that everyone who is considered the best of the best would have it. I never said Ace has it.
I'm certain each of the Emperors are able to use Ambition; they just don't have the Overlord aspect of it.
Yeah I expect that, I just hope that all 4 aren't haoshoku users.
I'm going to guess that one of the four Yonkou have Haoushoku (one of the two we haven't been introduced to yet).
shanks seems to have it
As for the 50 comment. Urogue said that would mean everyone shown pre AL that has haki has the haoushoku haki ability. I clarified to him it's was only Shanks and Rayleigh who did the knocking out stuff aside from Luffy. Not everyone which makes it sound like a whole lot.
4/4 = 100% no matter which way you slice it. The percentage of Haoushoku users is supposed to be closer to around 0.0002%.
the way he knocked out wb pirates
Why does that show he has the Kings Ambition?
The percentage of Haoushoku users is supposed to be closer to around 0.0002%.
I'm hoping this guy is one of them.
I read the last couple of pages. I agree with the whole Skypiea and CP9 having haki similar abilites. As for the haoushoku haki arguement. We don't know enough about it to say really for sure. If what the Amazon Lily saw as overlord haki was the knocking out part or the sister putting down the statue and determined he had that particular haki type. If it was the knocking out part then Shanks and Rayleigh would fit. If it was just supposed to be from the sister putting down the statue it would exclude the two.
Again, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't read the discussion on this or simply overlooked it.
I was saying there'll be more people will have the overlord haki in the New World since the Best of the Best reside there. Not that everyone who is considered the best of the best would have it. I never said Ace has it.
I know what you were saying.
That's why I gave you examples to show why that won't be the case.
Yeah I expect that, I just hope that all 4 aren't haoshoku users.
I wouldn't worry about that happening.
However, if I really thought about this I would lean towards what Urouge said about how one might have it. I'm gonna go with Kaidou since he'll likely be an antagonist somewhere down the line; especially if the uknown Emperor ends up being Lola's mother.
4/4 = 100% no matter which way you slice it. The percentage of Haoushoku users is supposed to be closer to around 0.0002%.
Ah I see only 4 people exist in the OP world so it's a perfect 100%
It's one in a millions who possess the haoushoku haki.
4/4 out of how many people we have seen in the OP world. We have only seen areas where the SH have been. We haven't seen how many people reside in the N/W/E/S Blues. There's 7 different paths in the Grand Line and god knows how many in the New World. So there's a crapload of people who live in the OP universe.
Let's say for the sake of the arguement. The total population of the OP world is 10 million. So with several million that would be at least 5 haoushoku haki users. Or 20 million and it'll be at least 10 haushoku haki users. The one in millons ratio will still work.
I read the last couple of pages. I agree with the whole Skypiea and CP9 having haki similar abilites. As for the haoushoku haki arguement. We don't know enough about it to say really for sure. If what the Amazon Lily saw as overlord haki was the knocking out part or the sister putting down the statue and determined he had that particular haki type. If it was the knocking out part then Shanks and Rayleigh would fit. If it was just supposed to be from the sister putting down the statue it would exclude the two.
As for the 50 comment. Urogue said that would mean everyone shown pre AL that has haki has the haoushoku haki ability. I clarified to him it's was only Shanks and Rayleigh who did the knocking out stuff aside from Luffy. Not everyone which makes it sound like a whole lot.
I was saying there'll be more people will have the overlord haki in the New World since the Best of the Best reside there. Not that everyone who is considered the best of the best would have it. I never said Ace has it.
Since it seems that you may have missed it Vanessa and Darkstorm are hinting at the fact that we pretty much ruled out the instant K.O as haoshoku exclusive, Vanessa thinks that the kuja recognised the unique feel of Luffy's haoshoku as the same as Hancock's, not mind control or as the instant K.O.
Ah I see only 4 people exist in the OP world so it's a perfect 100%
It's one in a millions who possess the haoushoku haki.
4/4 out of how many people we have seen in the OP world. We have only seen areas where the SH have been. We haven't seen how many people reside in the N/W/E/S Blues. There's 7 different paths in the Grand Line and god knows how many in the New World.
Let's say for the sake of the arguement. The total population of the OP world is 10 million. So with several million that would be at least 5 haoushoku haki users. Or 20 million and it'll be at least 10 haushoku haki users. The one in millons ratio will still work.
Look at it this way: In Naruto we've seen the Sharingan in the present on only 4-5 people yet it feels like those eyes are everywhere. We're never going to see the entire population in either of those comics yet the problem would be just the same.
Don't focus so much on the numbers themselves.
Ah I see only 4 people exist in the OP world so it's a perfect 100%
It's one in a millions who possess the haoushoku haki.
4/4 out of how many people we have seen in the OP world. We have only seen areas where the SH have been. We haven't seen how many people reside in the N/W/E/S Blues. There's 7 different paths in the Grand Line and god knows how many in the New World. So there's a crapload of people who live in the OP universe.
Let's say for the sake of the arguement. The total population of the OP world is 10 million. So with several million that would be at least 5 haoushoku haki users. Or 20 million and it'll be at least 10 haushoku haki users. The one in millons ratio will still work.
Ugh. Go take a course in statistics and get back to me. People who haven't been evaluated can't be included in your calculations.
Ah I see only 4 people exist in the OP world so it's a perfect 100%
It's one in a millions who possess the haoushoku haki.
4/4 out of how many people we have seen in the OP world. We have only seen areas where the SH have been. We haven't seen how many people reside in the N/W/E/S Blues. There's 7 different paths in the Grand Line and god knows how many in the New World. So there's a crapload of people who live in the OP universe.
Let's say for the sake of the arguement. The total population of the OP world is 10 million. So with several million that would be at least 5 haoushoku haki users. Or 20 million and it'll be at least 10 haushoku haki users. The one in millons ratio will still work.
I'm holding onto a feeble hope that there are a bunch of random baby's and toddlers with haoshoku that won't have any bearing on the story that way hopefully we will see only a couple more active haoshoku users. Of course I'm partially joking.