We know Usopp is Sogeking. But, since he quit that means he wouldn't help them. Why would he change his mind and help them, and why would he do it in a different persona?
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Is it just me or was it glaringly obvious that both Usopp and the Mugiwara Luffy Pirates BOTH want to work together again but at this junction neither of their prides will allow them to do so.
I dunno it seemed straight forward to me but maybe I'm missing something.
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He came from the Island of Snipers
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There's already a thread about Usopp and SogeKing:
http://ap.animemedia.org/index.php?showtopic=2352&st=40Krieg, there's something called the Search Function. Try to clutter the board less.
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chang, actually if you read the statement made by don, he's looking into something different, that being precisely why Usopp wanted to become Sogeking. The thread I made was more about the source of inspiration for the character.
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Is it just me or was it glaringly obvious that both Usopp and the Mugiwara Luffy Pirates BOTH want to work together again but at this junction neither of their prides will allow them to do so.
I think you are correct - Usopp became Sogeking because his pride wouldn't allow him to go back and help the crew…so he came up with a creative solution. He's a liar, Sogeking is just one of his lies. :) A very cool one.
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Originally posted by omae no kaasan v.2@Jun 28 2005, 10:23 PM
**Is it just me or was it glaringly obvious that both Usopp and the Mugiwara Luffy Pirates BOTH want to work together again but at this junction neither of their prides will allow them to do so.I dunno it seemed straight forward to me but maybe I'm missing something.
[snapback]79333[/snapback]**Actually I interpreted it the same way. I´m actually curious how Luffy will handle the situation. I mean it is fair game to assume that he wouldn´t even recognize Usopp, but on the other hand Luffy is always sharp when it gets to serious and important things. And this indeed is a serious dilemma. Sanji has no problem to work with Usopp, but then again it´s not him who got challenged in a duel and who´s integrety and authority got questioned.
I´m very curious about how Oda will clear everything up.
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Usopp wants nothing to do with the strawhats since they wanna destroy his beloved ship. But he's long term attachment towards them tells him to help them out. But of course, even as a liar, he still has what of his pride and dignity. So in order to help the strawhats, back to the days of lieing. As the Sniper King Sogeking. I found it interesting as he found a way to become "manly" and not be his cowardly original self.
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But the problem in that logic is that with that Usopp actually values Merry more then his nakama. Ok Merry is very important to him, but he was acting completely impulsive without even considering what the others mean to him.
I seriously doubt that Usopp values Merry more then the others. I think Merry and the Strawhats have the same status to him. It is just how the situation developed that had decided for one of them, but if he ever gets to the point to objectively consider what he´s done actually he´ll realize how stupid it was to chose between characters/things he loved.
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I seriously doubt that Usopp values Merry more then the others.
Yeah a lot depends on how Oda wraps this up. I mean yeah ok, he saw Klabauterman and he knows something about Merry that no one else does.
That's all well and good butIT'S NO REALLY GOOD REASON TO CHALLENGE YOUR GREAT FRIEND TO A DUEL
Usopp is going to have to own up to some serious stuff. Luffy on the other hand, shouldn't really have to even though he was heated up a bit and Sanji cooled him down DID act appropriately to the situation as a Captain.
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You´ve explained what I thought perfectly Omae. Even thoug Luffy was heated up, his behavoiur wasn´t out of place. As the captain he´s the highest authority on the ship. Usopp actually reacted like a little kid who doesn´t want to play with his friends anymore because they broke his toy. It´s imature behavoiur.
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I don't think it's like that at all. Usopp challenged Luffy to a duel because, quite frankly, he was seriously mad. It was mostly an impetuous decision. I agree he was being silly, but everybody does silly things when they're angry.
And honestly, Luffy could have reacted to the situation a lot better than he did. The way he broke the news to Usopp, for example, was a major screw-up action. The way he started yelling back at Usopp wasn't a smart move either.
I'm with Luffy, 100%, but I'll never go as far as saying Usopp was being an immature idiot and the whole thing was his fault.
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I'm with Luffy, 100%, but I'll never go as far as saying Usopp was being an immature idiot and the whole thing was his fault.
Like I said, Luffy started to say some off the wall things but he got a flying kick to the face from Sanji that knocked some sense into him. Even look at his attitude, he apologized.
And I don't think there was anything wrong with how he broke the news. I don't care how much Usopp took care of the ship, the ship is Luffy's. As his ship it should be most difficult for him to part with and even more difficult to have made that decision.
Usopp was not only being immature but was questioning a direct decision of the Captain's. That's mutiny. That's why it was 'heavy' for Luffy. To do what he did was remarkably difficult but no matter how much of a screwloose he is, Luffy soundly believes in his decisions and no matter what he WILL make them blossom, he's proved this time and time again. Most recently he's proved this with his decision to save Robin at all costs. It's a harsh reality but when Luffy makes decisions as Captain, they should and must be followed because he will never do anything to hurt or harm those close to him. That's why he originally made the decision I believe.
Usopp was disobeying a decision from his superior because he saw how much Merry cared for them. Nice intention, but again, no reason to cut relations with your best friends. Luffy didn't decide to fight, he was reacting as a man to Usopp. And Usopp took his medicine.
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If someone were to walk up to me and break that type of news the way Luffy did, then yes, I'd be very pissed. I wouldn't at all think about his position on the matter, or on how hard the decision must have been for him, especially because he's bringing the message in a ''Well hey, shucks, too bad. Moving on…'' kind of way. And then, when I ask why, when he just goes on talking on about how expensive it would be to get a new one, I'd be even more pissed. I wouldn't be thinking rationally, I would want to know why, and even then I still wouldn't deign to just get rid of it so simply.
Luffy should at the very least have taken into account how Usopp would react instead of just making it a done deal.
And about the whole captain/mutiny thing... Honestly, when it comes down to it, the relationship between Luffy and Usopp is not one of servant/captain. It's a friendship. Usopp saw Luffy not as a Captain, but as a friend, whom he disagreed with. It resulted in a fight. Yeah, not viewing him as the Captain at that moment might have been Usopp's folly, but I can't entirely blame him at all.
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Originally posted by Mog@Jun 29 2005, 10:38 AM
Luffy should at the very least have taken into account how Usopp would react instead of just making it a done deal.I think he was probably just trying to take Usopp's mind off of the Franky Family, but chose about the worst possible manner to do so. When Usopp got mad, Luffy got mad as well.
I'm not sure that Luffy was thoroughly convinced that they needed to get a new ship until Usopp reacted badly to the suggestion.
Usopp saw Luffy not as a Captain, but as a friend, whom he disagreed with.
[snapback]79827[/snapback]Well, how often had Luffy ever tried to pull rank on any of them?
I think Usopp would have been okay with it if the situation had been thoroughly discussed before hand, which was more in line with the way the Straw Hats did things. They actually had a meeting to discuss what to do with the wealth that they acquired in Skypiea, most crews would not do such a thing.
I'm not surprised that Usopp was angry; the decision to spend the money to fix Merry was made as a joint group discussion. The notion that Luffy would (from Usopp's viewpoint) arbitrarily change that decision without another group never crossed Usopp's mind. And why should it for that matter? That's not how Luffy operates.
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I was always mad with Usopp for going so ballistic over the ship, but I almost blew my top when he said "he knew it was going to happen eventually." What the hell?!
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Even if Luffy could have prepared Usopp better for the news the fact remains that Usopp would still have disagreed with Luffy just because he wouldn´t agree with his decision. He became completely egoistic in that move and acted like a little child. He just saw his own problems without even considering that the dicission might hurt Luffy himself.
As Omae already said, Luffy had a decision to make as the captain. The tough it may be to leave Merry behind he must have been convinced that it is the best for the health of the entire crew if they continue traveling with a new and intact ship. Otherwise he would actually all damn to death by going on with Merry.
Usopp on the other hand didn´t even try to think of that. Yes it was impulsive and yes I myself was often in such situations myself. And you know what after some time I always realized that my impulsive behaviour was immature. And Usopps was too. Zoro for instance would have never reacted like that. He´s mature enough to take captains orders without questioning them, since he knows that he can trust the captains motives. Just look at the first fight with Bellamy. He didn´t even move a muscle when Luffy told him that they aren´t going to fight. He knows how to interact with a captain.
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oh so zoro would be more mature?
i would like to see zoros reaction if luffy ordered him to throw away kuina sword just like that without explaniation :Phe would probably do the same thing usopp did….
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Maybe if the sword was, you know, broken. And if Luffy depended on its well being for his and the rest of the crew's safety.
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ah yes maybe he would see it that way IF HE EXPLAINED IT that way instead of just saying
-hey zoro throw your favorite possesion cause i say so,like he did with usopp
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We sure discuss this a lot, don't we? It's like Paulie v. Franky.
Well, ever since the beginning, I have had this feeling it's not just about Going Merry. I think Usopp was already thinking of leaving before that happened. He may have been fearing that he would end up being left behind for being useless, and the GM was an impetus. Maybe I'm over-psychoanalysing, but sometimes he really fits the poster-child of abandonment issues. :D As for fighting Luffy, I think he was influenced by the giants in Little Garden. Anyway, I'd ramble on longer, but I gotta go, gotta go, uh-oh.
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I think it was just a back of the mind thing, and he wouldn't really leave. But I dunno.
Originally posted by wolfwood@Jun 30 2005, 05:06 AM
**ah yes maybe he would see it that way IF HE EXPLAINED IT that way instead of just saying
-hey zoro throw your favorite possesion cause i say so,like he did with usopp
[snapback]79994[/snapback]**Go over chapter 331. He said a few times that it couldn't be fixed anymore, that it was a hard decision, and that he took their word for it because they're pros. He didn't just say "we're throwing the ship away because I say so"
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He came from the Island of Sniping, though
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It'd be cool if Usopp fleshed out Soge's story at some point.
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 29 2005, 08:30 PM
It'd be cool if Usopp fleshed out Soge's story at some point.
[snapback]80006[/snapback]Well, yeah. But even if he did, he'd kind of just be telling tall tales.
Anyway, I'm more interested in finding out what he's planning with this whole new attitude of Sogeking. He seems to be a lot more intense, and all.
He's bound to have some sort of duel, at some point. I wonder if he'll take on Luffy, again? - Knowing Luffy, he'll probably believe Sogeking is a whole seperate entity.
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Originally posted by wolfwood@Jun 29 2005, 08:54 PM
**oh so zoro would be more mature?
i would like to see zoros reaction if luffy ordered him to throw away kuina sword just like that without explaniation :Phe would probably do the same thing usopp did….
[snapback]79991[/snapback]**I´m sorry but the Going Merry and Zoro´s sword are so much not in the same league. Zoro´s sword is something that Zoro requested himself. He asked his sensei to give it to him to get stronger with it to achieve the promise he made to Kuina.
Going Merry was a gift from Kaya to Luffy, Zoro and Nami. Usopp wasn´t even part of the Strawhats then. The ship was never given to him. It belongs to Luffy.
Other then that Zoro´s sword is linked with his dream that he wants to achieve since it is the belonging of that person he made the promise to. Just like Luffy´s hat is the belonging of the person he made his promise to.
Going Merry has absolutely nothing to do with Usopps dream to become a brave warrior of the sea. It is not his ship. If Luffy and Zoro wouldn´t have asked him to jump aboard he may have never seen that ship again.That´s that. Now to the Zoro is more mature part.
In Rainbase Luffy tells Zoro to save Smoker. He doesn´t question the captains motifs he just what he is ordered to do.
In Mocktown Luffy tells Zoro not to fight back at Bellamy. Zoro doesn´t say a single word. He just looks in Luffy´s eyes and understands that the captain must have a good reason to resist to fight back.
At Longring Longland Luffy orders Zoro and Sanji to leave him behind during his fight with Aokiji. Zoro (and Sanji) listen to the captains orders without even questioning it.So yes I say that Zoro definitely acts more mature in such situations. I haven´t seen Usopp put the same faith as Zoro in the captain when it gets to obeying unpleasant orders.
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And you know what after some time I always realized that my impulsive behaviour was immature.
Exactly. After some time. The very fact Usopp became Soge King proves he has, too. Okay? Good.
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It was briefly mentioned before, but I think one of the main reasons Usopp acted like he did was because he felt useless compared the the skills and strengths of the other straw hats. He feels useless –-> loses his friends large sum of money because he is "weak" ---> finds out his favorite ship is going to be replaced all in a single day made him act crazy.
That said, I think if SogeKing ends up being a major part in the victory against CP9 he will no longer feel weak making it more likely he'll apologize for acting like he did.
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He's bound to have some sort of duel, at some point.
LONGNOSES DUEL!!!! ARGHHHHH. Dying to see one since Arlong Park.
To me, Usopp sees Merry as more than a ship. When he saw the Klabautermann, he is further convinced that Merry has a "soul".
Also, in episode 148, Luffy said: "Going Merry is our best friend (he used the word nakama here)", and Usopp took it to heart. This sentence also appears in the manga, volume 24. First chapter, I think. That's why Usopp said "I misjudged you, Luffy!" In a way, Luffy's decision contradicted his word and disappointed Usopp.
But later, he realized (thanks to Franky) that he's done a foolish thing. The problem with Robin arises, and Usopp manages to see that the incident of losing Merry is small compared to losing a real nakama. His priority shifts to helping them get Robin out. Although his pride prevents him from fighting as "Usopp-who-left", his loyalty to the crew and his sense of friendship enables him to fight as SogeKing.
HELL YEAH!
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_Originally posted by Buccaneer+Jun 29 2005, 01:13 PM–>QUOTE(Buccaneer @ Jun 29 2005, 01:13 PM)I think it was just a back of the mind thing, and he wouldn't really leave. But I dunno.
That panel is what makes me think the way I do…
When he said "I've thought about it", it gives me the impression that he meant longer than just the few minutes since they were arguing._ -
I agree there. It was as if Nami or Chopper had gotten mortally ill and Luffy had said "See ya, we're going to get a new, much better crewmember to take your place. For the rest of us to go on, you gotta go. Bye." I don't know if Luffy would have been so willing to leave the Merry if he had known about the Klabautermann.
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"See ya, we're going to get a new, much better crewmember to take your place. For the rest of us to go on, you gotta go. Bye."
Someone's having fun deleting my posts but regardless I'll just keep posting :lol: In his right state of mind (ie. not under CT or anything) Luffy has never made a choice to hurt the crew. Ever. All of his decisions have been to protect the crew at all costs. Which is exactly why it must have been more difficult for him than anyone to make that choice. What Usopp comitted was indeed mutiny going against the Captain's decision and all Luffy did was maintain the order that is necessary.
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And I don't disagree with you, either. I'm just trying to look at it from Usopp's point of view. I don't think his actions were coming so much from a selfish, childish point of view as some people are suggesting.
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Well I don't agree he was childish. I do think his motive was somewhat selfish though. He's doing what he wanted to do and not something for the greater good (not to mention following a Captain's decision). And yes, it is very true that he knows more than anyone else about Merry but still, challenging your great friend to a duel? Yes okay we get heated in arguments, and I can TOTALLY accept Oda's yarn. I'm not really questioning that because it is totally plausible.
But I do think Usopp has a lot to own up to.
Gonna be lots of tears. On paper and in my eyes.
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Hey, Broggy an Dorry were great friends, and they dueled each other every friggin' single day. :lol:
**But I do think Usopp has a lot to own up to.
Gonna be lots of tears. On paper and in my eyes.**
Yep, I can't wait. rub hands together >D
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Originally posted by omae no kaasan v.2@Jun 29 2005, 10:54 PM
**Well I don't agree he was childish. I do think his motive was somewhat selfish though. He's doing what he wanted to do and not something for the greater good (not to mention following a Captain's decision). And yes, it is very true that he knows more than anyone else about Merry but still, challenging your great friend to a duel? Yes okay we get heated in arguments, and I can TOTALLY accept Oda's yarn. I'm not really questioning that because it is totally plausible.But I do think Usopp has a lot to own up to.
Gonna be lots of tears. On paper and in my eyes.
[snapback]80258[/snapback]**Of course. Luffy had to make that desicion for everyone, not just himself. It's just that to Usopp the Merry was a nakama, not just some ordinary ship that you could buy and sell so that's why he defended it so strongly. (and he also felt the same way about himself at the time too, which didn't help)
I think both sides were just as at fault. Neither one was doing what was wrong. ^^ I KNOW Oda has something big planned…..
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The one thing I can say with certainty is that "Oda causes all things to happen for good". :lol: I don't know his thinking process, but I bet that he had the resolution in mind before we even saw the fight. And I believe this is all for the growth of the characters as individuals and as a whole, and we will see the fruit of that eventually.
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Originally posted by CosmicDebris@Jun 30 2005, 12:45 AM
**That's true, but from Usopp's point of view, they aren't just talking about an inanimate object. From Chapter 352:Usopp: Tell me, if you had a friend on the verge of death,
would you say "Die and take a break, pal," and then leave them?!!
Franky: You're ignoring the point, man.
Usopp: No I'm not!! This is that kind of situation!!!**I´m perfectly aware of that. I just made that point to prove that Merry and Kuina´s sword are two completely different things. Shanks hat and Kuina´s sword are in the same league but not the Going Merry.
Usopp regards Merry as a nakama, not a possession (whether you find it silly or not), so who it belongs to doesn't make any difference.
Perhaps Usopp feels he would be a hypocrite to not treat Merry in a way that he himself would want to be treated.
[snapback]80136[/snapback]True that he see´s it as a nakama but still he was acting as a child. He can say a hundred times that he has thought about it, it still doesn´t mean that he was objective on that part. What if they would have continued with Merry and after a couple of sea miles the ship and the crew would have sinked? Then six of his nakama COULD have been doomed to death and Merry would have died either way. He should have considered that objectively.
All he saw was that he doesn´t want to leave Merry behind. But leaving her behind doesn´t mean getting rid of her. She could still be waiting for them at Water 7 if they should ever return, but if they would have moved on with her there would have been no chance to save her.
It´s as if when you take a friend to a party where you know there´s someone who´s going to kick the crap out of your friend. But instead of leaving doing what´s for the best of everybody you insist that your friend comes with you just because you don´t want to go without him/her.
I still stay by the argument that Usopp was acting imature. He was acting impulsive and included his own fighting skill inferiority into this heat. No matter how much meaning the Going Merry must have to him. Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Nico Robin must also have a meaning to him. If they are truly his nakama then he should have also cared what´s for the best of them too. But he didn´t even bother to consider the wealth of the crew. I´m not saying he did that because of egoism, he just wasn´t objective and considered what points all probably have been thought through by the captain who´s responsible for the safety of his crew.
He was subjective and impuslive. And to me this is imature behaviour. -
Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 30 2005, 05:26 AM
She could still be waiting for them at Water 7 if they should ever returnNo, she wouldn't have been.
It was made quite clear to Luffy and company that the ship would soon fall apart by itself. Galley-La told them that they basically had two choices: tear her apart right now (which is the same opportunity Franky offered Usopp) or just wait until she falls apart. Plus, if she was just left in Water 7 unguarded, the Franky family would have eventually disassembled her.
It´s as if when you take a friend to a party where you know there´s someone who´s going to kick the crap out of your friend. But instead of leaving doing what´s for the best of everybody you insist that your friend comes with you just because you don´t want to go without him/her.
Well, the other option is going to the party without your friend and then never seeing them again.
A large portion of the discussion of Usopp's motives include the fact that he percieved the Merry as being more than an inanimate object, but these discussions often skim over the fact that he was absolutely right in this perception.
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It's just that to Usopp the Merry was a nakama, not just some ordinary ship that you could buy and sell so that's why he defended it so strongly.
Whether he sees it as that way or not it's still a ship. It couldn't/can't help them in it's current state and it cannot be ridden again in such a form. Is Merry gone? I doubt it. But is that form of it gone? I do think it is. If a member of Luffy's crew died he certainly wouldn't wait around forever for them to come back to life.
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Originally posted by Ubiq@Jun 30 2005, 01:57 PM
**No, she wouldn't have been.It was made quite clear to Luffy and company that the ship would soon fall apart by itself. Galley-La told them that they basically had two choices: tear her apart right now (which is the same opportunity Franky offered Usopp) or just wait until she falls apart. Plus, if she was just left in Water 7 unguarded, the Franky family would have eventually disassembled her.**
Really? Ok my bad, didn´t understand it that way. :D
Well, the other option is going to the party without your friend and then never seeing them again.
Who says that it is a given that you will never see your friend? It depends on the motives you have to go there in the first place. Lets say there´s a girl that you know the girl you never had a chance to talk to was there and you´ll have the chance to get in touch with her there, wouldn´t that be a motive where your friend himself would tell you to go there but to leave himself behind? Just taking it as a given that you´ll never see your friend again is silly since it is all a matter of the motifs.
And to bring it back to our discussion, Luffy´s motif was the wealth of the crew. He maybe could have explained it differently to Usopp, but he probably wouldn´t have had it either way. He wasn´t mature enough to understand the extent of Luffy´s motifs that lead him to his decision to leave Merry behind.
A large portion of the discussion of Usopp's motives include the fact that he percieved the Merry as being more than an inanimate object, but these discussions often skim over the fact that he was absolutely right in this perception.
[snapback]80515[/snapback]I don´t deny that his perception was right, but the behaviour towards which his perception lead him was definitely imature. He couldn´t handle his emotions and impulsively questioned the competenses of the captain. He makes it appear as if he´s the only one who´s sad that they leave Merry behind, while the actually are all sad. Just remember their speech when they left Skypiea. You know that Merry is more then just a ship to them and it does hurt them to leave it behind. But they were all mature enough to deal with it as it had to be because they knew that it was best for them all. No matter if you´re a pirate or whatsoever, sometimes tough decidions have to be made for the common good, no matter how unpleasent they might appear at first sight. Often the alternative is a lot worse. However there´s some who are able to handle such situations and others who can´t. And quite obviously Usopp couldn´t and his behaviour and actions that result because of that is what is making him imature in that scene.
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Personally, I would like to sit on the fence about this argument.
Neither side did thoroughly wrong, in their actions, but nor did they do completely right.
Ussop was rash in his actions, and his mood, while understandable, was rather irrational.
Luffy, however, is also not fully innocent. Whilst he didn't mean to, he still did offend Ussop, by agreeing that Merry should be dismantled. He could have considered how Ussop felt at the time, but knowing Luffy, sometimes his decisions are double-edged.
I agree that Luffy had thought about the well-being of his crewmembers as a whole, but this was a generalised thought. Had he stopped to consider how Ussop would have felt, how the person who had spent most of his time, fixing the ship's wounds and being the handyman, to feel useful, would have felt, Luffy may have been a lot more reluctant on his choice.
Now, that I have put down how both sides are at faults, I shall defend both sides, too.
Ussop was irrational for a reason. Merry was a ship belonging to Kaya, one of his first and only friends, before the Straw Hats. This gives Ussop sentimental value. Whilst some argue this isn't "in league" with Luffy's hat from Shanks, or Zoro's Wadou Ichimonji, I believe that Ussop has enough right to treasure Kaya's ship as much as Zoro and Luffy treasure their possessions.
Also realise that Ussop has gone many times through thoughts of being the useless person in the crew.
During the Arlong arc, for instance, he stood up to fight Chuu, because he believed that if he did not, he would be unable to be with the crew. It took him a lot of courage and belief, to stand up to Chuu and call him a "fish bastard/freak", like he did.
Again, Ussop stood up to defend his crewmembers, because if he did not, there was a chance to be branded as a hypocrit, for Luffy and the others would have defended him, about his own dreams.
Furthermore, Ussop's duties on the ship branch from "Sharpshooter", a job which faded away quickly, to the person who would fix the ship. This job became more of a priority, as cannons were soon rendered obsolete. This became Ussop's role in the crew.
But if Ussop were to lose Merry, then he would lose his only role on the ship. He would feel completely useless, and this would bring about the fear of abandonment.
Now, on Luffy's side, we have the fact that Luffy would never harm his crewmembers, intentionally. He would consider how they felt, if there was no bigger picture.
Luffy had no bigger picture, when Zoro wanted to fight Mihawk, and so he let Zoro fight, and lose, as Zoro wished. He kept Zoro's pride and hopes in mind, in doing this.
But with Ussop, there was a bigger picture. If Going Merry were to break, then everyone would die, including Ussop. Luffy would rather think of everyone as a whole, than risk everyone else for Ussop, no matter how Ussop felt.
Now, with my two cents explained, I would like to say that both sides are equally guilty, but equally innocent as well. No sides should be taken.
Also, as a P.S, what if the Galley-La were lying? After all, they were CP9. They could have easily been lying about Merry, to make a rift between the Straw Hats.
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Well, the last statement we all know is false. Franky pointed it out too, and even before then, Usopp knew. He said he knew since he saw the Klabautermann.
But I'm sitting on the fence too at this point, because I want to hear what Usopp has to say, instead of making assumptions about what he was thinking.
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Originally posted by CosmicDebris@Jun 30 2005, 07:54 PM
**Well, the last statement we all know is false. Franky pointed it out too, and even before then, Usopp knew. He said he knew since he saw the Klabautermann.But I'm sitting on the fence too at this point, because I want to hear what Usopp has to say, instead of making assumptions about what he was thinking.
[snapback]80743[/snapback]**Ahh, well, I didn't actually know the full story. I only know a summarised version of what's going on.
Oh, and, umm, hi, Cosmic-sama.
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Originally posted by Kawaii Kenni@Jun 30 2005, 07:15 PM
Luffy, however, is also not fully innocent. Whilst he didn't mean to, he still did offend Ussop, by agreeing that Merry should be dismantled. He could have considered how Ussop felt at the time, but knowing Luffy, sometimes his decisions are double-edged.I´d really like to see you to explain to a drill sergeant at the army that he could have used a more proper language in order to be more sensetive towards the cadet´s. It is part of the mental growth to sometimes back your own emotions down for the common good. If you can´t do that every drill seargant will tell you that you acted like a little kid and that you should "take it as a MAN." B)
Luffy had no bigger picture, when Zoro wanted to fight Mihawk, and so he let Zoro fight, and lose, as Zoro wished. He kept Zoro's pride and hopes in mind, in doing this.
Actually the bigger picture was Zoro´s pride as a swordsman. There´s nothing more important to him then that. To Luffy Zoro´s wealth is of a main concern however as a fighter himself he respects that code of a fighter since he knows that in this situation that was more important.
Also, as a P.S, what if the Galley-La were lying? After all, they were CP9. They could have easily been lying about Merry, to make a rift between the Straw Hats.
[snapback]80707[/snapback]Kaku already explained already that even though they were government officials, their report about Merry wasn´t fake but the pure truth.
However I don´t give that much about Merry´s death anyway. Eversince I saw a mortally wounded guy who got run down by a sea train, repair himself with an artificial body because his old one became useless I don´t take it for given that Merry can´t return to the Strawhats. :DThat said welcome to the boards. :)
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I´d really like to see you to explain to a drill sergeant at the army that he could have used a more proper language in order to be more sensetive towards the cadet´s. It is part of the mental growth to sometimes back your own emotions down for the common good. If you can´t do that every drill seargant will tell you that you acted like a little kid and that you should "take it as a MAN."
Luffy is not a drill sargeant, though, and the crew isn't a military unit. and while Luffy is the captain, he doesn't put himself above any of the crewmates. They're all pretty much equal in status. If you want to compare Luffy to a drill sargeant, then he wouldn't have gotten personally insulted and tackled an injured person.
And you know, often times a soldier will carry even a DEAD comrade at the risk of their own saftey.
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Originally posted by CosmicDebris@Jun 30 2005, 08:49 PM
**Luffy is not a drill sargeant, though, and the crew isn't a military unit. and while Luffy is the captain, he doesn't put himself above any of the crewmates. They're all pretty much equal in status. If you want to compare Luffy to a drill sargeant, then he wouldn't have gotten personally insulted and tackled an injured person.And you know, often times a soldier will carry even a DEAD comrade at the risk of their own saftey.
[snapback]80783[/snapback]**You know, there was a time when I would have been all fired up by such posts. But right now I just laugh at such posts. I wrote all that up to explain mature and imature behaviour in other contextes and all what I get is an one and a half paragraph long response that tells me that Luffy is not a drill sergeant. :lol:
Thanks for clearing that one up for me, even though I´ve read 372 chapters so far I didn´t notice it until you explained it to me. :lol:
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Ivotas…
Cosmic actually made a very solid counterpoint to what you said, and you respond by cynically exclaiming you noticed instead of even intending to answer?
I think you've got your ''immature'' right there, bud.
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Call it whatever you like. I was stating an example about another situation of the same nature.
What do you think why I started my statement with the words "I´d really like to see you to explain to a drill sergeant…"? It was an out of One Piece example about a situation where having discipline determines mature or imature behaviour.
No matter if it is the member of a pirate crew or just a private at the army, showing discipline towards your superior is the same thing in both context´s.If somebody doesn´t understood what I meant then there´s always the option of asking me what the hell I actually meant.
Other than that I can´t be held responsible if somebody isn´t able to understand what I meant. It´s not my fault. No need to get offensive at me for that. :lol:Besides I never claimed for my statement to be mature so... :P
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Originally posted by Buccaneer+Jun 29 2005, 09:13 PM–>QUOTE(Buccaneer @ Jun 29 2005, 09:13 PM)I think it was just a back of the mind thing, and he wouldn't really leave. But I dunno.