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Thread: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

  1. #341

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Again, that's not much to brag about because:

    1) Snipers generally have multiple bullets. Usopp hitting every target is a bit meaningless unless he has limited ammo.
    2) He still needs goggles to aim well.
    3) His nose works as a crosshair.
    4) His attacks do little damage.

    1.) not really...
    2.) Read Cosmic's post
    3.) Possible, but not fact
    4.) ...sniping is about accuracy, just because cities don't crumble from his attacks don't mean much. Kind of pointless aiming at all if everytime you shoot a huge explosion happens.

    So, even with a crutch, he's capable of executing a semi-impressive but not extraordinarily useful skill successfully. Do not forget that only Chopper and Sanji lacked ranged attacks, and Zoro/Luffy/Nami do not seem to have shabby aim, either.

    So shooting keys from so far up people look like ants while huge winds are blowing and marines are shooting at him isn't impressive?

    The other SH don't have bad aim, but they don't have superhuman aim either. Now do they? Usopp's incredible aim just allows him to fight at a farther distance.


    Source?
    Cosmic's post.

    While true, until Kabuto, that really wasn't a bragable point.

    In shape Kabuto is basiccly a large slingshot......

  2. #342

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    4.) ...sniping is about accuracy, just because cities don't crumble from his attacks don't mean much. Kind of pointless aiming at all if everytime you shoot a huge explosion happens.
    Sniping is supposed to be killing, or at least disabling the target in one shot.

  3. #343

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    Sniping is supposed to be killing, or at least disabling the target in one shot.
    Which can't be done without really good aim.

  4. #344

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    More like "really good aim" is useless without the proper equipment. You could be the most accurate marksman in the world, I doubt you could do a career in the military if you only shot with an air compressed rifle.

    Hopefully he'll come up with something better than his usual "fireworks", it's getting tired.

  5. #345

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    More like "really good aim" is useless without the proper equipment. You could be the most accurate marksman in the world, I doubt you could do a career in the military if you only shot with an air compressed rifle.

    True, that is........


  6. #346
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    @Cosmic: OK, I need to stop reading omae's page so much. Needs updates. x.X;

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkers
    You make it sound like hitting multiple targets without missing a shot from hundreds of feet away against the wind with a slingshot (or even a bow and arrow) is a terribly easy thing to do. If you find something like that a piece of cake, then you shouldn't have any problem completely dominating every Olympic archery event and winning gold.
    This is manga. Real life isn't a manga, contrary to popular belief. Additionally, there's nothing significant about hitting multiple targets "without missing a shot". You lot might find that impressive for some reason, but I fail to see why; he has multiple bullets. As long as he doesn't hit Robin, missing or hitting his enemies is a moot point.

    Being able to recite the dialogue from every Star Trek episode is a superpower, too. Pity it's totally worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ao Kiji
    I was just about to say, Jango was pounded with shovels,bats, and frying pans and Usopp's normal puchinko ball took him out didn't it?
    That's his most powerful bullet. The Gunpowder Star is all flash and little substance. Even then, Jango was getting beaten by children, and he's just a normal human, to boot.

  7. #347

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    This is manga. Real life isn't a manga, contrary to popular belief.
    Really... I didn't know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Additionally, there's nothing significant about hitting multiple targets "without missing a shot". You lot might find that impressive for some reason, but I fail to see why; he has multiple bullets. As long as he doesn't hit Robin, missing or hitting his enemies is a moot point.
    Yes, I do it find impressive, in the same vein that I find some of Robin Hood's legendary feats of archery impressive, or Vash the Stampede's skill with a gun impressive. Though Usopp has a bit of way go before he matches Vash's level of impressiveness, but he's getting there. Also, that he uses a slingshot certainly doesn't hurt, since I find proficiency with a slingshot something that's more difficult to acquire than proficiency with a gun. Thus to me it's a more impressive skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Being able to recite the dialogue from every Star Trek episode is a superpower, too. Pity it's totally worthless.
    I guess you think having superhuman aiming is a worthless ability...

    I see no point in arguing this with you any further when there's such a fundamental difference in opinion.

  8. #348

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Dude, shooting without missing is an awesome skill. What are you talking about? I mean, who can shoot constantly without missing? That's what all marksman strive for!

    I don't get this. 100% accuracy isn't good? Shooting someone from miles away, completely out of sight, is deadly. If Usopp using a sniper rifle, those marines wouldn't have heads right now. And that's a moot point actually, because explosives to the face should kill you anyway, or at least scar you in some horrible way.

  9. #349
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkers
    Yes, I do it find impressive, in the same vein that I find some of Robin Hood's legendary feats of archery impressive, or Vash the Stampede's skill with a gun impressive...Thus to me it's a more impressive skill.
    Robin Hood's proficiency was admirable not because he had good aim, but because he had good aim with a bow. Missing once meant death, something Usopp never has to worry about. Additionally, stringing arrows and firing them takes a whole lot more strength than most normal people have; it's a tough art to be an archer.

    Vash...I dunno, I've never seen Trigun.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    Dude, shooting without missing is an awesome skill. What are you talking about? I mean, who can shoot constantly without missing? That's what all marksman strive for!
    Marksmen strive to hit their targets successfully. How many bullets it takes is a trivial matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    I don't get this. 100% accuracy isn't good? Shooting someone from miles away, completely out of sight, is deadly. If Usopp using a sniper rifle, those marines wouldn't have heads right now. And that's a moot point actually, because explosives to the face should kill you anyway, or at least scar you in some horrible way.
    Firstly, Usopp doesn't have 100% aim, or he'd have hit Jyabura. Secondly, hitting a target "everytime' means nothing if said target never goes down. Spandam stomached two hits and got up; he's a loser with a douriki of nine.

    I'd call that pretty sad.

  10. #350

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Firstly, Usopp doesn't have 100% aim, or he'd have hit Jyabura. Secondly, hitting a target "everytime' means nothing if said target never goes down. Spandam stomached two hits and got up; he's a loser with a douriki of nine.
    How does Jabura moving out of the way downplay Usopp's aim?

  11. #351

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Snipers are supposed to be able to shoot moving targets.

  12. #352

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    Snipers are supposed to be able to shoot moving targets.
    But Jabura moving outta the way still doesn't downplay Usopps aim. After all, Jabura is going uber fast. If anything is degrades his the speed of his ammo, not his sniping ability.

    Though Usopp made up for that from his showing with the keys.

  13. #353

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Robin Hood's proficiency was admirable not because he had good aim, but because he had good aim with a bow. Missing once meant death, something Usopp never has to worry about. Additionally, stringing arrows and firing them takes a whole lot more strength than most normal people have; it's a tough art to be an archer.
    Although there's much more to aiming well with a bow than just arm strength, this point you bring up about archery and arm strength I just have to respond to.

    Take a look at the size of Kabuto. Also take a look at how far he was able to fire his projectiles and hit his targets. Now tell me that doesn't take considerable arm strength to pull off, arm strength that is at least comparable to that of an archer's.

    Using a slingshot like Kabuto proficiently takes just as much skill as using a bow/arrow proficiently, if not more. The reason I even brought up the subject of archery in the first place is because using a slingshot like Kabuto is more equivalent to archery than it is to sniping with a rifle.

  14. #354
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon
    But Jabura moving outta the way still doesn't downplay Usopps aim. After all, Jabura is going uber fast. If anything is degrades his the speed of his ammo, not his sniping ability.
    Uh, yes it does. You're telling me a guy who can instantly snipe guys from a mile away while taking wind resistance into his distance calculations can't snipe a guy a couple feet away from him when he knows he's got instant transmission?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkers
    Take a look at the size of Kabuto. Also take a look at how far he was able to fire his projectiles and hit his targets. Now tell me that doesn't take considerable arm strength to pull off, arm strength that is at least comparable to that of an archer's.
    Look at how many strings are attached to Kabuto and think about the size of his stars.

  15. #355

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Look at how many strings are attached to Kabuto and think about the size of his stars.
    Not sure what that proves. Pulling back two equal strings takes double the strength of pulling back a single string. Add a third string and it takes three times the strength and so on and so forth. Also the stars may be smaller than arrows but judging by the size of Kabuto's sling strap, they probably weigh almost as much as an arrow does. Also the arrow's larger size is compensated by its feathers and its more aerodynamically sound shape. Distance for distance, I would say it takes an equivalent amount of potential energy input (arm power transferred into the strings) for Usopp to fire one of his Kabuto stars that an archer uses to fire an arrow.

  16. #356

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Uh, yes it does. You're telling me a guy who can instantly snipe guys from a mile away while taking wind resistance into his distance calculations can't snipe a guy a couple feet away from him when he knows he's got instant transmission?

    No it doesn't. It would if Jabura was moving before Usopp shot the sunflower star at him. But Usopp's aim was dead on and Jabura moved. It downplays the speed of his ammo, not his aim.

  17. #357
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkers
    Not sure what that proves. Pulling back two equal strings takes double the strength of pulling back a single string. Add a third string and it takes three times the strength and so on and so forth. Also the stars may be smaller than arrows but judging by the size of Kabuto's sling strap, they probably weigh almost as much as an arrow does. Also the arrow's larger size is compensated by its feathers and its more aerodynamically sound shape. Distance for distance, I would say it takes an equivalent amount of potential energy input (arm power transferred into the strings) for Usopp to fire one of his Kabuto stars that an archer uses to fire an arrow.
    No, that's wrong. Pulling one string makes the string stiffer due to greater tension force acting parallel to the string, while multiple strings evenly distribute the tension. Ergo, shooting Kabuto the same distance as an arrow is easier because Kabuto requires less muscle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    No it doesn't. It would if Jabura was moving before Usopp shot the sunflower star at him. But Usopp's aim was dead on and Jabura moved. It downplays the speed of his ammo, not his aim.
    I'm confused. It's pretty obvious that Sogeking would understand the speed of his ammo, he's seen Soru, he knows people try to move out of the way when shot at. If he can't hit someone directly in front of him he's not as good a sniper as you say he is.

  18. #358

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    No, that's wrong. Pulling one string makes the string stiffer due to greater tension force acting parallel to the string, while multiple strings evenly distribute the tension. Ergo, shooting Kabuto the same distance as an arrow is easier because Kabuto requires less muscle.
    So...it's easier to use the slingshot then a bow. What is the point of this exactly? I mean, if Usopp hit people with a slingshot that he made himself from a huge distace then it's still impressive. Who else can do that? So far, no one that we really know (that's no counting Van Auger, yet).

    No one's going to try the same thing with a bow, who cares about that. Even if he used a sniper rifle hitting every shot would be a good accomplishment. Plus, we don't really know how tough the string on his sling are. To reach that distance, they could be pretty strong, or he's using dials somehow to close the distance.

    I'm confused. It's pretty obvious that Sogeking would understand the speed of his ammo, he's seen Soru, he knows people try to move out of the way when shot at. If he can't hit someone directly in front of him he's not as good a sniper as you say he is.
    Come to think of it, did Usopp really see Soru before then? Blueno used his air door to move around, and Kaku may have used no roushiki at all. Plus, Usopp wasn't around when the CP9 explained their techniques at Iceburgs mansion.

    No, Usopp probably couldn't account for Jyabura's speed.

  19. #359

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    I'm confused. It's pretty obvious that Sogeking would understand the speed of his ammo, he's seen Soru, he knows people try to move out of the way when shot at. If he can't hit someone directly in front of him he's not as good a sniper as you say he is.

    Jabura moving out of the way does not downplay usopps aim.

    That is just how it is. Jabura was not moving before Usopp sho the sunflower star. He moved after Usopp the sunflower star left kabuto. Jabura dodging the sunflower star downplays the speed of usopps ammo, not his aim.

  20. #360

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    No, that's wrong. Pulling one string makes the string stiffer due to greater tension force acting parallel to the string, while multiple strings evenly distribute the tension. Ergo, shooting Kabuto the same distance as an arrow is easier because Kabuto requires less muscle.
    What's this about tension distribution? You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Adding more strings in no way makes the slingshot more efficient. It makes it less efficient as the potential energy stored in the strings is used not only to move the projectile but also the pouch and the strings themselves (some energy is wasted on sound and heat energy but we'll ignore that for sake of simplicity). Given the same average force input, when you add more strings you increase the mass and thus decrease the speed of the projectile.

    Don't read the hidden text if you hate math and/or physics:

    Hidden:
    Proof: This is a simple matter of converting potential energy to kinetic energy where:

    F(av)*d = 1/2 * (m(b) + m(s) + m(p)) * v^2

    v = sqrt( (2*F(av)*d)/(m(b) + m(s) + m(p)) )

    v = launch velocity of the projectile
    F(av) = average force applied from the arm
    d = draw distance as measured from pouch to epicenter of the strings
    m(b) = mass of projectiles
    m(s) = mass of strings
    m(p) = mass of pouch

    I hope it's evident to you, from the equation provided, that when you add more strings increasing the mass of the strings the launch speed of the projectile decreases. The most efficient slingshots are ones where string + pouch mass is minimized, and potential energy store potential is maximized.


    Furthermore separating the string mass into separate strings makes the slingshot less efficient. Given the same average force, the draw distance of a slingshot designed with >2 strings will be smaller than the draw distance of a slingshot designed with exactly 2 strings (a simple proof of this involves simple trigonometry, while a more involved proof would also involve a bit of integration). Thus, given equal string masses and equal average force, the launch speed of a projectile from a 2 string slingshot will be faster than the launch speed of a projectile from a >2 string slingshot. The most efficient slingshots are ones where all string mass is concentrated within two strings. This is why most slingshots are designed using only two strings.

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