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Thread: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

  1. #321

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    I'll agree to disagree here. It's simply a matter of opinion. Vivi just didn't bother me at all.



    Though I still don't see how that makes Usopp anymore normal.

  2. #322
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Look at all the people I cited as "brave". Those are just the common folk, the background characters; they're not even minor characters. Compare those people with the total number of honest to goodness cowards in this story (three, tops; Usopp, Chopper, and Koby).

    Koby's the most human character in the entire series; Usopp is the most human Straw Hat, which makes him super human but he's more closely related to Koby than, say, Zoro. Usopp's truely super human strength is his damage soaking ability; although the son of a fabulous sniper, sniping is all about training AND talent, not just talent alone, and Usopp always needs his goggles and a weapon he's confortable with to shoot well (though the weapon bit isn't a requirement).

    He's a handyman (typical of a historical era) who is naturally cautious and, like any real person, is almost helpless against the monsters that appear all the time in OP (true or human). Usopp brags a lot (who doesn't) and has a fairly decent mind to boot, but not much knowledge or features that distinguish him among his crewmembers.

    ...wow, my respect for Usopp just went up.

  3. #323

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    ^^ though what makes usopp more of an everyman that Nami? Usopp has many things going for him. Including his battle ability. I mean if he started thinking more like a sniper in his battles he could be a very dengerouus memeber, and it would up his power a lot. I believe he has finally realized he is a sniper first and foremost, but that's not for this thread.

    Nami however is the most normal SH besides her navagational/weather knowledge.

  4. #324
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon
    ^^ though what makes usopp more of an everyman that Nami?
    Man, I hate your font.

    ...

    Nami is a child prodigy who taught herself cartography from an early age and manages to avoid damage rather than sustain it. She has a supernatural awarenes of weather. Her charisma is incredibly high such that she can (in a super human fashion) weasel her way out of tough situations with her words alone. She also has sex appeal and a boom stick.

    While Nami is physically weaker than every other pirate on the Straw Hat crew, that does not mean she's an "everyman" character. If anything, she's the mad genuis with the volative temper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    Usopp has many things going for him. Including his battle ability. I mean if he started thinking more like a sniper in his battles he could be a very dengerouus memeber, and it would up his power a lot.
    Had Usopp been put in the same situation as Zoro or Sanji, he'd turn out a swordsman or a martial-arts chef. Just because he could do something means nothing because he hasn't done so yet. Usopp could be the most powerful Straw Hat if he used guns, especially with seastone bullets. But he doesn't; Usopp is resigned to be a fairly non-combatative character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    Nami however is the most normal SH besides her navagational/weather knowledge.
    Her insatiable greed, pechant for violence, clairvoyance and genuis are certainly traints all real people share. Usopp's cowardice and boasting are all traits real people have, but they look exaggerated in OP because everyone is absurdly brave/serious. Remember that, in spite of his cowardice, Usopp does face his opponents in fair fights and much of what he boasts about tend to come true.

  5. #325

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Yeah. Oh, Aldrich; Usopp's split with the crew over the Going Merry was something a real person would have done.
    Uh, no?

    I don't know in what world you're living, but if we're talking about everyman characters, one that is "written so that the reader or audience can imagine themselves in the same situation without having to possess knowledge, skills, and abilities outside their everyday experience", then fuck no, Usopp isn't an everyman character, or more precisely, as I say since some time, he's an horribly failed one.

    Usopp does possess skills and abilities outside of eveyone's everyday experience here, xcept if you're all building climate-controlling weapons for your female friends for fun and are snipers in the Delta Force.

    As for "real persons" reacting like he did in real life... Please. You'd leave people who're supposed to be the best friends you ever had because you don't want to let an inanimate object go? It makes him sound like a capricious 8 year old brat who won't admit his teddy bear finished in the dumpster. You can't realistically relate to that.

  6. #326

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Um, yes? I know some people who sail who'd go down with their own ships, as I see it.
    Avatar provided by Ferntree on DeviantArt.

  7. #327

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Man, I hate your font.


    Nami is a child prodigy who taught herself cartography from an early age and manages to avoid damage rather than sustain it. She has a supernatural awarenes of weather. Her charisma is incredibly high such that she can (in a super human fashion) weasel her way out of tough situations with her words alone. She also has sex appeal and a boom stick.
    Nami's knowledge of cartography goes with her navagational/weather skills. Everything else you wrote is really just pulling at straws. There are millions of people in this world who have charisma and can weasel themselves out of tough situations, does that mean they are beyond the norm?

    While Nami is physically weaker than every other pirate on the Straw Hat crew, that does not mean she's an "everyman" character. If anything, she's the mad genuis with the volative temper.

    She a genius in the buisness of weather and cartography. all you have to go buy is her smarts. Usopp is much more of a genius than Nami, just not in her field.


    Had Usopp been put in the same situation as Zoro or Sanji, he'd turn out a swordsman or a martial-arts chef. Just because he could do something means nothing because he hasn't done so yet. Usopp could be the most powerful Straw Hat if he used guns, especially with seastone bullets. But he doesn't; Usopp is resigned to be a fairly non-combatative character.

    Guns? You have to be joking. Perhaps they would have had been able to help is he hadn't used a slingshot his entire life. And is his enemies weren't already used to normal guns. and if he found a gun powerful enough to actually hurt his enemies. And if he wee able to load shuriking, hot sause, and so muc more in there. Please show me a gun that can shoot all of usopp's ammo. If it can't, that guns useless. You don't see Zoro tring to get lightsabers, now do you? But you aren't going to hear anymore from me on this matter.


    Her insatiable greed, pechant for violence, clairvoyance and genuis are certainly traints all real people share. Usopp's cowardice and boasting are all traits real people have, but they look exaggerated in OP because everyone is absurdly brave/serious. Remember that, in spite of his cowardice, Usopp does face his opponents in fair fights and much of what he boasts about tend to come true.

    And how does this make usopp more of an everyman? Nami is the most of an everyman character. I havn't seen a single thing besides her incredible knowledge of the weather and cartography.

    Nami isn't an everyman because of her genius in one area? If that's the case Usopp, is a genius sniper, a genius weapons maker, genius ammo maker, and so son.

    ~~~

    And I agree with Aldrich. Anyone who does that needs some sense smacked into him. The connection between the ship and usopp in understandable, but not this.

  8. #328

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by yokaiforte
    Um, yes? I know some people who sail who'd go down with their own ships, as I see it.
    But those people aren't your average manga reader. They're not even your average everyday man. Those people are exceptions.

  9. #329

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    Uh, no?

    I don't know in what world you're living, but if we're talking about everyman characters, one that is "written so that the reader or audience can imagine themselves in the same situation without having to possess knowledge, skills, and abilities outside their everyday experience", then fuck no, Usopp isn't an everyman character, or more precisely, as I say since some time, he's an horribly failed one.

    Usopp does possess skills and abilities outside of eveyone's everyday experience here, xcept if you're all building climate-controlling weapons for your female friends for fun and are snipers in the Delta Force.

    As for "real persons" reacting like he did in real life... Please. You'd leave people who're supposed to be the best friends you ever had because you don't want to let an inanimate object go? It makes him sound like a capricious 8 year old brat who won't admit his teddy bear finished in the dumpster. You can't realistically relate to that.
    Eh, I thought his leaving Merry was supposed to represent his insecurities. If Luffy was willing to abandon Merry then he might abandon the next weakest crewmember next.In Usopp's eyes, leaving the Going Merry was out-of-character for Luffy, hence as soon as Luffy said it, he seemed like a different person. At least I think that's supposed to be the excuse.

    ...except, looking back, why was Usopp so close to the ship? Was it just because Kaya gave it to her? Yeah, actually that's probably it. I mean, I love the gameboy I got for my birthday, and I don't even have any good games on it.

    What really gets me though, it how Nami seems to suddenly be on par with the rest of the crew, at least in Usopps eyes. I guess that "woah-man angry violence" thing she does looks real to the other characters.

  10. #330

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    ...except, looking back, why was Usopp so close to the ship? Was it just because Kaya gave it to her? Yeah, actually that's probably it. I mean, I love the gameboy I got for my birthday, and I don't even have any good games on it.
    Kaya gave it to her? :P Actually Kaya gave it to Luffy, not Usopp. And Usopp never mentioned Kaya ONCE during the entire situation, so no, that's not it. All the reasons are very apparent from what he does say in the arc.

    Merry was more than an inanimate object. :P You have to accept the story on the terms the author gives. Merry was a living comrad.

    What really gets me though, it how Nami seems to suddenly be on par with the rest of the crew, at least in Usopps eyes. I guess that "woah-man angry violence" thing she does looks real to the other characters.
    That's a good point, I always wondered about that myself. I guess when you're in self-pity mode, you don't look past yourself.
    Last edited by CosmicDebris; August 23rd, 2006 at 05:29 PM.

    Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa

  11. #331

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Ah, it's a typo. I get dyslexic after staying on the computer for too long....

  12. #332

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    He's the son of one of the world's greatest snipers and a talented one himself, can build weapons able to control weather, won't die after taking a four tons bat to the head and falling from a 50 feet tower, consider a pile of rotten wood like a friend, somehow think that fighting with a slingshot in a world were piracy runs rampant is a good idea and has a fucking 9 inches long nose.

    Ordinary individual my ass.
    Whoo!! Go Usopp!!

  13. #333
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    As for "real persons" reacting like he did in real life... Please. You'd leave people who're supposed to be the best friends you ever had because you don't want to let an inanimate object go? It makes him sound like a capricious 8 year old brat who won't admit his teddy bear finished in the dumpster. You can't realistically relate to that.
    People get worked up over the most retarded of things. When flushed by anger, they act in a stupid way they normally would not have.

    ...

    Usopp was worried about the Merry for a while; he admitted himself he knew it was dead. When he was beaten up by FF and he thought his "chance escaped", that just compounded his sense of weakness. That weakness lashed out at Luffy when he brought up the issue of a new ship.

    Yes, it seems pretty outrageous for Luffy to leave his friends over that broken ship, but marriages, friendships, and all manner of relationships crack over simmilarly trivial matters. It's a pretty relatable experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon
    Nami's knowledge of cartography goes with her navagational/weather skills. Everything else you wrote is really just pulling at straws. There are millions of people in this world who have charisma and can weasel themselves out of tough situations, does that mean they are beyond the norm?
    Knowledge is not related to supernatural instincts. Robin and Nami are both prodigys in that they managed to master a subject in a short span of time without any degree of external assistance; Nami is more impressive because Robin had her library to use if necessary, while Nami just digested stolen books.

    Nami's "intuition", though related to her skill, was something she recieved at birth; she couldn't "train" it because it is a sixth sense.

    Additionally, no, there are *not* millions of people, in fiction, One Piece, or the real world, with that much charisma. Nami's degree of influence is comparable to Ronald Reagan, a President of the United States. They're a rare breed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    Guns? You have to be joking. Perhaps they would have had been able to help is he hadn't used a slingshot his entire life. And is his enemies weren't already used to normal guns. and if he found a gun powerful enough to actually hurt his enemies. And if he wee able to load shuriking, hot sause, and so muc more in there. Please show me a gun that can shoot all of usopp's ammo. If it can't, that guns useless. You don't see Zoro tring to get lightsabers, now do you? But you aren't going to hear anymore from me on this matter.
    This might be a shock, but guns kill people. Hot sauce stars and egg shots don't (explosions should, too, but not in manga). Any of the Straw Hat Pirates, excluding Luffy, can be killed by a gun; if Usopp used guns, it's a fair bet he could probably kill most OP villans too.

    Perhaps not Logia users, CP9 or certain Paramecia, but virtually everyone else in the series are cannon fodder for him.

    Also remember that Yasopp uses guns. Why not imitate his father?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    And how does this make usopp more of an everyman? Nami is the most of an everyman character. I havn't seen a single thing besides her incredible knowledge of the weather and cartography.
    Your first assertion is fair, your second questionable.

    Nami's exaggerated traits are as much a defining quality of a fictional character as is Luffy's gluttony, Zoro's sloth and Sanji's lust. Exaggerating personalities inherently makes them more recognisable, but less realistic.

    Usopp's cowardice is *not* an exaggerated trait! It only seems that way because he parties around with virtual monsters and fights monsters. Honestly, fighting a six foot tall man with a bat and a mole woman would be pretty terrifying to me, too.

    Additionally, real people are "jack of all trades" types, with a little knowledge in all fields of study but not specialisation mastery (in contrast to Luffy's fighting, Zoro's kendo, Sanji's cooking/martial arts, Robin's archeology, Chopper's medicine, and Nami's navigation); they're also frail and easily get hurt.

    Usopp is only "inhuman" in the sense of his prominence as a blood sponge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    Nami isn't an everyman because of her genius in one area? If that's the case Usopp, is a genius sniper, a genius weapons maker, genius ammo maker, and so son.
    How he made the first Clima-Tact is both astounding and a blatant deus ex machina by Oda to give Nami a weapon. His invention of the Usopp hammer isn't "genuis", he broke down how it was made and it's pretty simple in design (ergo, Usopp used common sense).

    His sniping (a developed skill) could be considered inhuman, except that he still needs to use goggles and his attacks do very little damage. Even then, real-life marksmen are as skilled as Usopp.
    Last edited by Malintex_Terek; August 24th, 2006 at 08:08 PM.

  14. #334
    Gomu Gomu No Murder Taleran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    the one thing I never got about this debate is noones yet to say this


    what is wrong with him being Comic Relief, as long as your still laughing at what he does it doesn't matter what it is, personally I don't have a problem with it and it plays itself well against the seriousness of most of the cast


    and I agree about the boat being extremely childish

  15. #335

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

    Knowledge is not related to supernatural instincts. Robin and Nami are both prodigys in that they managed to master a subject in a short span of time without any degree of external assistance; Nami is more impressive because Robin had her library to use if necessary, while Nami just digested stolen books.
    I agree that Nami was more impressive that Robin in that.

    Knowledge is related to supernatural instincts. It's her amazing knowledge of the weather that allows her to understand changes in weather in the slightest breeze. Take the instance when Vivi mentioned Nami's skill in weather. I'm certain the rest of the people on the ship felt a breeze, I'm certain their bodies detected somthing. But nami is the only one withthe knowledge to understand that that is a storm.

    Nami's "intuition", though related to her skill, was something she recieved at birth; she couldn't "train" it because it is a sixth sense.

    I disagree. Her weather instincts are ther because of her knowlede. Most people would feel those changes in weather, but they think nothing of it at all.

    Additionally, no, there are *not* millions of people, in fiction, One Piece, or the real world, with that much charisma. Nami's degree of influence is comparable to Ronald Reagan, a President of the United States. They're a rare breed.

    I never said there were millions of people with that much charisma. I simply stated there are millions of people with charisma who can weasel themselves outta a situation.


    This might be a shock, but guns kill people. Hot sauce stars and egg shots don't (explosions should, too, but not in manga). Any of the Straw Hat Pirates, excluding Luffy, can be killed by a gun; if Usopp used guns, it's a fair bet he could probably kill most OP villans too.

    Perhaps not Logia users, CP9 or certain Paramecia, but virtually everyone else in the series are cannon fodder for him.
    Luffy won't be killed by a gun unless the bullet has a point or is travelling at completley insane speeds. Speeds no one in OP has shown even close to.

    Sure hot sauce and eggs don't kill people, but shurikens, bombs, poisen, explosions, blades, gas, impact, heat, any many more things do.


    I was kinda on the same boat you're on before Usopp got Kabuto.


    Also remember that Yasopp uses guns. Why not imitate his father?
    I wonder this to. His first slingshot certainley didn't do him much good.

    Your first assertion is fair, your second questionable.

    Nami's exaggerated traits are as much a defining quality of a fictional character as is Luffy's gluttony, Zoro's sloth and Sanji's lust. Exaggerating personalities inherently makes them more recognisable, but less realistic.
    True

    Usopp's cowardice is *not* an exaggerated trait! It only seems that way because he parties around with virtual monsters and fights monsters. Honestly, fighting a six foot tall man with a bat and a mole woman would be pretty terrifying to me, too.
    I understand this.

    Additionally, real people are "jack of all trades" types, with a little knowledge in all fields of study but not specialisation mastery (in contrast to Luffy's fighting, Zoro's kendo, Sanji's cooking/martial arts, Robin's archeology, Chopper's medicine, and Nami's navigation); they're also frail and easily get hurt.
    true

    Usopp is only "inhuman" in the sense of his prominence as a blood sponge.

    And a couple other things. Such as perfect aim.


    How he made the first Clima-Tact is both astounding and a blatant deus ex machina by Oda to give Nami a weapon. His invention of the Usopp hammer isn't "genuis", he broke down how it was made and it's pretty simple in design (ergo, Usopp used common sense).
    You may say it's a DEM but that doesn't change the fact that he made it.

    His sniping (a developed skill) could be considered inhuman, except that he still needs to use goggles and his attacks do very little damage. Even then, real-life marksmen are as skilled as Usopp.
    Goggles don't serve as a scope. They simply keep stuff out of his eye.

    Real life markmen may be as skilled as usopp, but I don't remember one as skilled as him using a slingshot.


    ~~~

    @ Taleran: you win

  16. #336
    Gomu Gomu No Murder Taleran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    to expand I'd more or less have expected this topic if his Comic Relief started to get not as funny and then there'd be a problem but hes stayed funny for 274 episodes (minu flasbacks and episodes b4 he was in them of course)


    don't criticise him for him not being other strawhats instead laugh at and with him and hope that he continues like this

  17. #337
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    And a couple other things. Such as perfect aim.
    Again, that's not much to brag about because:

    1) Snipers generally have multiple bullets. Usopp hitting every target is a bit meaningless unless he has limited ammo.
    2) He still needs goggles to aim well.
    3) His nose works as a crosshair.
    4) His attacks do little damage.

    So, even with a crutch, he's capable of executing a semi-impressive but not extraordinarily useful skill successfully. Do not forget that only Chopper and Sanji lacked ranged attacks, and Zoro/Luffy/Nami do not seem to have shabby aim, either.


    You may say it's a DEM but that doesn't change the fact that he made it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon
    Goggles don't serve as a scope. They simply keep stuff out of his eye.
    Source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon

    Real life markmen may be as skilled as usopp, but I don't remember one as skilled as him using a slingshot.
    While true, until Kabuto, that really wasn't a bragable point.

  18. #338

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek


    2) He still needs goggles to aim well.
    3) His nose works as a crosshair.
    4) His attacks do little damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oda SBS Chapter 1130
    D: Are those glasses that Usopp wears when he fights?


    O: Those are goggles. "Sniper goggles". At first he only wore them for looks, but in Loguetown he got the brand new model from "North Blue". The scene on the right was supposed to be the first page of chapter 98, in volume 11. The number of pages went over the limit, so we scrapped it. It's got sunglasses on it to eliminate glare when he's aiming, and it can flip up and turn around and stuff like that, so Usopp really liked it.


    Note that it says nothing about helping him aim. Plus, most of the time I recall seeing him aim, he's not wearing the goggles. He didn't wear them while fighting Luffy either.


    And again, the using his nose as a crosshair is just a fandom joke, it's not true.
    And as for #4, it depends on which attack. His attacks while fighting Luffy caused a lot of damage, they only didn't cause extreme damage because Luffy is so incredibly strong.

    Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa

  19. #339

    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    Again, that's not much to brag about because:

    1) Snipers generally have multiple bullets. Usopp hitting every target is a bit meaningless unless he has limited ammo.
    2) He still needs goggles to aim well.
    3) His nose works as a crosshair.
    4) His attacks do little damage.

    So, even with a crutch, he's capable of executing a semi-impressive but not extraordinarily useful skill successfully. Do not forget that only Chopper and Sanji lacked ranged attacks, and Zoro/Luffy/Nami do not seem to have shabby aim, either.
    You make it sound like hitting multiple targets without missing a shot from hundreds of feet away against the wind with a slingshot (or even a bow and arrow) is a terribly easy thing to do. If you find something like that a piece of cake, then you shouldn't have any problem completely dominating every Olympic archery event and winning gold.

    Even with the help of goggles, Usopp's aim with his slingshot isn't something to scoff at. IMO, his aim is something superhuman, a skill that no one in the real world could ever come close to having.

  20. #340
    Stowaway Ao Kiji's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Else Hates that Usopp is comic relief?

    4) His attacks do little damage.
    I was just about to say, Jango was pounded with shovels,bats, and frying pans and Usopp's normal puchinko ball took him out didn't it?

    Besides sniping sometimes isn't about stopping power but more about hitting vital points.

    I'd say both Nami and Usopp tend to be the everyman and everywomen characters many times throughout the story. Isn't that what whole scene when Usopp gives her the climatact was about? Usopp and Nami realize they were sorta the normal people at this point in the journey and were dangerously close to dragging everyone down if they didn't step up and do something about.

    Usopp comes across more everymanish because he's the only main character who doesn't constantly get to look cool throughout the series. We actually see Usopp sweat sometimes instead of just having the ridiculous level of confidence everyone else in the crew seems to have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mog View Post
    Also, it's a children's comic from Japan.

    Why are you comparing it to cultural engravings and burritos.

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