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Thread: The problem with Franky joining.

  1. #121

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    Franky's dream wasn't just to build a ship, but to build a ship that can reach the end of the world. He'd have to see Raftel to forfil that last part of the dream.
    Actually, his dream was as you said, "to build a ship that can reach the end of the world." Not to "build a ship that can take him end of the world." He's a shipwright. Building the strongest ship humanly(cyborg?) possible. Is his dream. No where in the flashbacks or in his coversations did it ever imply HE had an interest in traveling to the end of the Grand Line.

    Granted it's just sematics, And he could join to keep the ship repaired and able to reach the end. But in essence his dream would be accomplished when he finnished the ship. Just as with Vivi, Because the revolution ended. Doesn't mean there are no hard times and tought battles ahead to rebuild the country. But in essence the country was saved from bbqw's plans. Thus her dream was fufilled. As would Frankys be the momemnt the last nail was put into the ship.

    But regardless, Frankly's dream doesn't fit in with the whole idea of becoming a SH member to fufill said dream. All the SH members joined to help fufill thier dreams, that they are still striving to do. Franky, just like Vivi, would basically have fufilled thier dream. (IF Franky gives them a ship) And if he doesn't, how does sailing around on a ship help him on his goal/dream to build one?


    EDIT:


    The ONLY way i can see Franky joining AND fufilling his dream. Is if the ship (hes going to supply) isn't finnished. But IS sailable. He could then join to finnish the ship as they sail around and pick up the needed parts.

    But regardless, Frankys dream/hopes/goals, Doesn't really "fit in" in the same way as the others dreams do. In relationship to why they joined, and why they stay.
    Last edited by Hopeless; August 9th, 2006 at 11:16 AM.

  2. #122

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless
    Actually, his dream was as you said, "to build a ship that can reach the end of the world." Not to "build a ship that can take him end of the world." He's a shipwright. Building the strongest ship humanly(cyborg?) possible. Is his dream. No where in the flashbacks or in his coversations did it ever imply HE had an interest in traveling to the end of the Grand Line.

    Granted it's just sematics, And he could join to keep the ship repaired and able to reach the end. But in essence his dream would be accomplished when he finnished the ship. Just as with Vivi, Because the revolution ended. Doesn't mean there are no hard times and tought battles ahead to rebuild the country. But in essence the country was saved from bbqw's plans. Thus her dream was fufilled. As would Frankys be the momemnt the last nail was put into the ship.

    But regardless, Frankly's dream doesn't fit in with the whole idea of becoming a SH member to fufill said dream. All the SH members joined to help fufill thier dreams, that they are still striving to do. Franky, just like Vivi, would basically have fufilled thier dream. (IF Franky gives them a ship) And if he doesn't, how does sailing around on a ship help him on his goal/dream to build one?
    The fastest way to know if a ship has reached the end of the world is to be there when it happens. Plus, someone will need to repair that ship, because no ship is immortal.

    It'd be just stupid if Franky builds the ship and then another shipwright joins.

  3. #123

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    It'd be just stupid if Franky builds the ship and then another shipwright joins.
    Well personally, I don't see how Franky can supply a ship. Just when has he had the time to build it? And if the money he took went to building the ship/buyin parts for it. He himself is not building it. He just drew and supplied the blueprints and money to build it. So why exactly would it be "stupid" for someone else to maintain it?

    Looking at it reasonably, Iceberg is probably the one building them a new ship. 1) he knows they need one. 2) he owes them. 3) Hes ahd the time to build it. If you think about it, everything would point to IB building the ship. The only reason ppl assume its Franky is cuz 1)The money he stole, what did it go towards? 2) His dream is to build one that is strong enuff to sail around the world.

    So as I have said many times now. How would sailing around on a ship. bring him closer to his goal of actually building one? It's not like hes an apprentice and needs to gather skills and knowledge to buid it. And IF he has built it. He's accomplished his dream.
    Last edited by Hopeless; August 9th, 2006 at 11:37 AM.

  4. #124

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless
    Well personally, I don't see how Franky can supply a ship. Just when has he had the time to build it? And if the money he took went to building the ship/buyin parts for it. He himself is not building it. He just drew and supplied the blueprints and money to build it. So why exactly would it be "stupid" for someone else to maintain it?

    Looking at it reasonably, Iceberg is probably the one building them a new ship. 1) he knows they need one. 2) he owes them. If you think about it, everything would point to IB building the ship. The only reason ppl assume its Franky is cuz 1)The money he stole, what did it go towards? 2) His dream is to build one that is strong enuff to sail around the world.

    So as I have said many times now. How would sailing around on a ship. bring him closer to his goal of actually building one? It's not like hes an apprentice and needs to gather skills and knowledge to buid it. And IF he has built it. He's accomplished his dream.
    He could be building a ship while he has away after leaving on the train. And no, Iceburg can't be building the ship, where has he had the time? It would take weeks to build a good ship, and he just met the SHs days ago. Plus, Iceburg and many of the shipwrights at Water 7 had been busy bodyguarding Iceburg and got injured by the CP9 recently.

    Franky's probably already built a ship, he's had the time of build it if he started before the SHs even arrived on Water 7. Come to think of it, how long was Franky gone on the sea train anyway?

    And going with this would forfil the second requirement of his dream. He wants a ship that can reach the end of the world. Even if he builds a great ship, he won't know if can reach the end of the world if he doesn't go himself. After all, no one know what's on the way to Raftel.

  5. #125

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    He could be building a ship while he has away after leaving on the train. And no, Iceburg can't be building the ship, where has he had the time? It would take weeks to build a good ship, and he just met the SHs days ago. Plus, Iceburg and many of the shipwrights at Water 7 had been busy bodyguarding Iceburg and got injured by the CP9 recently.

    Franky's probably already built a ship, he's had the time of build it if he started before the SHs even arrived on Water 7. Come to think of it, how long was Franky gone on the sea train anyway?

    And going with this would forfil the second requirement of his dream. He wants a ship that can reach the end of the world. Even if he builds a great ship, he won't know if can reach the end of the world if he doesn't go himself. After all, no one know what's on the way to Raftel.

    And that is exactly my point of why Frankys dream doesn't "fit" with the rest of the SH's.

    If he's already built his ship and fufilled his dream of building a ship strong enuff to sail to the end of the Grand Line. Then what more does he have to strive for? What improvements or strength/knowledge does he have yet to gain? Following your thoughts, He's just gotta hang around on the ship till he reaches the end of the Grand Line. Has nothing left to build or strive for.

    It's like Luffy or Zoro already being the strongest or the best. And now they just have to kick enuff ppls asses to prove they are. No need to get stronger, No need to improve. They already would have fufilled thier dreams and its just a matter of proving thier strength to the rest of the world.

  6. #126

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    I'm in agreement with Hopeless. Franky only needs to build the ship to accomplish his dream.

    Everyone seems to think Franky will be the next shipwright, but I think Oda will surprise us all and have someone else join. Also it wouldn't feel right if he joined. He fought with Luffy, and beat up Usopp. No other Straw Hat has fought with another Straw Hat before becoming a Straw Hat, not even Robin, former Baroque Works second in command. Just my opinion.

  7. #127

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless
    And that is exactly my point of why Frankys dream doesn't "fit" with the rest of the SH's.

    If he's already built his ship and fufilled his dream of building a ship strong enuff to sail to the end of the Grand Line. Then what more does he have to strive for? What improvements or strength/knowledge does he have yet to gain? Following your thoughts, He's just gotta hang around on the ship till he reaches the end of the Grand Line. Has nothing left to build or strive for.

    It's like Luffy or Zoro already being the strongest or the best. And now they just have to kick enuff ppls asses to prove they are. No need to get stronger, No need to improve. They already would have fufilled thier dreams and its just a matter of proving thier strength to the rest of the world.
    Well, he'd have to fix the ship, and maybe upgrade it to meet new challenges in the Grandline. Like I said, no one knows what's out there, maybe Franky's first draft ship won't be strong enough. You can't just build a ship and know that it will be strong enough to reach the end of the Grandline--few ships ever reach there.

    It fit's well enough in the SHs dream motif. After all every member isn't always chasing there dreams at all times. Hell, what has Sanji done about All Blue lately, or Chopper about his paneca? However, he know that these at least may lie at the end of the Grandline , Raftel. If Franky's ship needs to reach the end of the world, then he suddenly has as much reason as the rest of them to go to Raftel.

    I'm in agreement with Hopeless. Franky only needs to build the ship to accomplish his dream.

    Everyone seems to think Franky will be the next shipwright, but I think Oda will surprise us all and have someone else join. Also it wouldn't feel right if he joined. He fought with Luffy, and beat up Usopp. No other Straw Hat has fought with another Straw Hat before becoming a Straw Hat, not even Robin, former Baroque Works second in command. Just my opinion.
    Actually, technically Franky Family beat up Usopp, and Franky vs. Luffy was left unfinshed. And I don't think Oda's going to keep surprising us with out-of-nowhere members, he did that once with Robin. It'd be cheap to keep doing it.

    Frankly, I think Franky being a "villian" from earlier will be a red herring to his joining the crew. Plus, like with Zoro vs. Luffy, Luffy vs. Franky was left unfinished. I find that suspicious.
    Last edited by onemoment; August 9th, 2006 at 11:56 AM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    I don't think that this "dream" discussion can concludes that Franky will join or not. Robin joined and we haven't a clue about her dream... and after Oda made it clear for us.

  9. #129

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    Another problem is the detail that Oda has put into Franky. Vivi and Wiper only got OHKO's in their fights (when they win), but Franky's gotten two full fights.
    Franky had two full fights, and saved Robin, but then he also fought with Luffy, stole 200 million beli from the Straw Hats, and beat up Usopp. Alright, technically he didn't take part in physically beating him up, but he ordered Usopp's beating. That's the same thing as beating him up imo.

    Everything Franky has accomplished in Enies Lobby could just be Oda's way of having Franky repent for all the misery he caused the Straw Hats in Water 7 rather than as a way to ingratiate the character with the Straw Hats so that he become the next member.

  10. #130

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoment
    Well, he'd have to fix the ship, and maybe upgrade it to meet new challenges in the Grandline. Like I said, no one knows what's out there, maybe Franky's first draft ship won't be strong enough. You can't just build a ship and know that it will be strong enough to reach the end of the Grandline--few ships ever reach there.

    It fit's well enough in the SHs dream motif. After all every member isn't always chasing there dreams at all times. Hell, what has Sanji done about All Blue lately, or Chopper about his paneca? However, he know that these at least may lie at the end of the Grandline , Raftel. If Franky's ship needs to reach the end of the world, then he suddenly has as much reason as the rest of them to go to Raftel.
    I'm not saying Franky wouldent be a useful member of the crew. As far as his initial job of shipwright, They need one and Fanky would fill the role perfectly. As well as being another strong fighter to add to the crew.

    BUT. My point is, His dream is more in line with Vivi's dream. Once accomplished they continue on with thier lives. They don't join the SH crew. All the SH crews have dreams they have yet to achive.

    Luffy: To be Pirate King. ---> Lots of work and effort for improvements and strength needed still.
    Zoro : Same as Luffy, Lotta effort and work yet to get to the level he needs.
    Nami: Dream is to sail around the world and draw a map of said world.
    Ussop: Certianly on his way to becoming a stron warrior or the sea. But like Luffy and Zoro, lotta work and effort yet to be done.
    Sanji: Searching for "all blue" Needs to sail with the SH to find it. Sinces its most likely at the end of the Grand Line.
    Chopper: Same as the rest, still working on his dream.
    Robin: Has to make it to the end of the Grand Line to finnish her work:

    Franky: To BUILD a ship stong enuff to sail around the world.

    Your the one adding on to his dream your thoughts that he needs to travel with the ship to the end of the world to accomplish his dream. Frankys dream is like Vivi's

    Vivi: Save her country, stop the civl war.

    War was stopped her dream accomplished. She left the ship.

    Franky: (IF hes built a ship) SHips built, his dreams accomplished, stays at W7 or goes somewhere with his family/gang.

    I don't see Frankys dream being helped or acomplished or in ANY way improved by joining the SH's.

    And regardless of all the ppl wanting fanservice done and haven franky join the crew. His Dream doesn't "fit" with the other crew members. Even if the ship isn't built yet. How doesn sailing around on a pirate ship with the SH bring him any closer to fufilling his dream?

  11. #131

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by kabrumbs
    I don't think that this "dream" discussion can concludes that Franky will join or not. Robin joined and we haven't a clue about her dream... and after Oda made it clear for us.
    AHHH but therin lies the problem. We know frankys dream. And it doesn't need or require the SH's help, protection, journey to help fulfill it.(other then the money he stole. And I hardly think the SH look on him stealing the money as "helpfull" Regardless if its helpfull when alls said and done) In Fact, just the oppisite. Sailing around fighting the WQ would just delay or hinder his dream.


    EDIT: The entire OP story is driven by ppl and the dreams they have. Everythings focused on them fufilling thier dreams. The underlying reason why the current members are in the SH is to help fufill thier dreams.
    Last edited by Hopeless; August 9th, 2006 at 12:33 PM.

  12. #132
    Morbid, Cold-Hearted Freak Leaf Cable's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Yikes! I should throw in my 2 cents. I for one support Franky joining. I honestly hope he does. As for his dream, it isn't as easy as it seems. Sure, his dream is the build the perfect ship that will sail the whole Grand Line. Easy, no? OF COURSE NOT! His perfect ship more than likely won't just be random, easy-to-get parts that he can pick up anywhere. He'll need the right parts for the job, so to speak. What I'm implying is that while he's with the Straw Hats, along the way he'll have to find the perfect parts for the perfect ship. These ship parts would be the equivalent of Nami's Log Pose: they're a necessity to completing his dream! Money and parts, as well knowledge, make that dream possible. :) Plus his style is unique! A speedo cyborg. That and he's bonded really well with the crew if that means anything.
    I'm not bashing anyone, just stating my opinion.
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  13. #133

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf Cable
    Yikes! I should throw in my 2 cents. I for one support Franky joining. I honestly hope he does. As for his dream, it isn't as easy as it seems. Sure, his dream is the build the perfect ship that will sail the whole Grand Line. Easy, no? OF COURSE NOT! His perfect ship more than likely won't just be random, easy-to-get parts that he can pick up anywhere. He'll need the right parts for the job, so to speak. What I'm implying is that while he's with the Straw Hats, along the way he'll have to find the perfect parts for the perfect ship. These ship parts would be the equivalent of Nami's Log Pose: they're a necessity to completing his dream! Money and parts, as well knowledge, make that dream possible. :) Plus his style is unique! A speedo cyborg. That and he's bonded really well with the crew if that means anything.
    I'm not bashing anyone, just stating my opinion.
    The problem with building the ship along the way is if he does that, once the ship is complete, how will Franky know the ship can sail grand line all the way to Laftel?

    When the ship is complete, they'll have to backtrack to Water 7 then sail the grand line again to Laftel to give the ship the proper test.

  14. #134
    Moderator Aokiji freedom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    I think Franky is an awesome character, and the detail spent on his character is amazing. He has a indepth background and distinct personality. However, personally, i just can't imagine him on the ship for the rest of the story. I'm really hoping his purpose is to supply the SH with their new ship, and then that's it for him. At this point, like others have said, he'd have fulfilled his goal, he doesn't have to sail with them. Somehow people new that Gol D. Roger reached Raftel, and similarly, i expect people will know when the SH reach Raftel.

    Some people speculate that because Franky was once a criminal, and holds/held the blueprints to Pluton, the WG will be after him. However, i'm seeing things a bit differently. The WG knew way back when Tom was in Water 7 that he built the Oro Jackson, and he held the blueprints to that ancient weapon, yet, they still gave him amnesty to build the Puffing Tom. Now, we have Iceberg, who's become a VERY important person, and they tried to assassinate him and failed. I think Iceberg will be capable of hiding Franky in Water7 w/o worries from the WG. I don't see them taking the risk of being found out, and i'm better they will try to work some deal out w/ Iceberg to try to keep things under the table.

    Anyways, my personal preference is for Franky to build the ship and give it to the SHs, or at least design the ship and then Franky, Iceberg, Galley-la, FF will build it, something like that, and then Franky does not join the SH crew. But, the evidence so far has been pretty overwhelming, so i'm not gonna be too surprised if he is indeed the new SH. Right now, i think Paulie is too bland, and having a CP9 wouldn't make sense. There's no other character with enough development other than Franky to join IMO.
    WARNING (Explicit Dialog)!!

  15. #135

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless
    AHHH but therin lies the problem. We know frankys dream. And it doesn't need or require the SH's help, protection, journey to help fulfill it.(other then the money he stole. And I hardly think the SH look on him stealing the money as "helpfull" Regardless if its helpfull when alls said and done) In Fact, just the oppisite. Sailing around fighting the WQ would just delay or hinder his dream.


    EDIT: The entire OP story is driven by ppl and the dreams they have. Everythings focused on them fufilling thier dreams. The underlying reason why the current members are in the SH is to help fufill thier dreams.
    But it Franky gives the ship to the SHs, then the ship will be sailing around and fighting the WG anyway. And as for driven by people and hte dream they have, what about Sanji? He hasn't brought up All Blue virtually since joining the crew. He fights pretty much to shut up people who talk down to women.

    If Franky joined the crew, he wouldn't have to constantly search for his dream. And I didn't add that last part in, I think Oda added it for a reason. How will Franky build a ship that can reach the end of the world if he doesn't see it? What if the crew runs into another Skypiea and they need to change the ship again? You just can't build a ship and say that it will reach the end of the Grandline when you've never seen it before. It will need a good shipwright to make sure it get there, and who better then the original builder?

    Really, unlike Vivi, Franky's dream isn't done just by building a ship. If it gets destroyed along the way then his dream is wasted. And don't give me a "doesn't turst the SHs thing," because he at least shouldn't trust them with maintaining the ship, having no shipwright experience.

    Hell, right now Paulie more of a "Vivi". He hasn't beaten a strong opponent while fighting at Enies Lobby. The giants got back up while he needed help to beat the judge. He's been a character equal to the the Franky Familly.

  16. #136
    Morbid, Cold-Hearted Freak Leaf Cable's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    I see your point Bonkers. I'm sure there's some way that could work though, IMO. In fact, who said he has to build the ship during the journey? He could build it near the end of the story and thus the fulfillment of his dream could be part of a possible epilogue! Come to think about, it looks like the rest of the crew may not have their dreams fulfilled until the end of the story either from the looks of it. It's a possibility!
    But as always, only Oda knows for sure. Once again, very good point Bonkers! I really didn't think about that. :P
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  17. #137
    fffffffffffffffffffffffff f Coup de Manthong's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    How does Franky not make a good nakama? Look what he's done already for Robin and Usopp, and look how well he treats the Franky family. I'd say he fits in perfectly.

  18. #138

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    I skipped a few of the last posts because my head aches... but if i remember correctly Franky's dream is to build a ship that can sail all seas. Not the strongest ship or a ship that can sal to the end of the world.

    I'm a supporter of the incomplete ship that Franky keeps pimping through out the story, you could argue that you can only say proudly you build a ship that sailed all seas after it actually sail them (or maybe the roughest one, probably the way to Raftel) and what better way to prove such dream than to joining the straw-hats in their path to the end of the GrandLine?

    I'm pretty positive Franky will join, as for the FrankyFamily:
    FrankyFamily all wished to join Galley-La. This is the perfect way to give them protection from the WG. W7 is a very important town and they can't simply throw out the beloved mayor (not without the excuse of pirates doing so, like their previous attempt). So Iceburg, in order to protect FrankyFamily, accepts them as new Galley-La employees.
    baka^ni

  19. #139

    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless
    AHHH but therin lies the problem. We know frankys dream. And it doesn't need or require the SH's help, protection, journey to help fulfill it.(other then the money he stole. And I hardly think the SH look on him stealing the money as "helpfull" Regardless if its helpfull when alls said and done) In Fact, just the oppisite. Sailing around fighting the WQ would just delay or hinder his dream.
    EDIT: The entire OP story is driven by ppl and the dreams they have. Everythings focused on them fufilling thier dreams. The underlying reason why the current members are in the SH is to help fufill thier dreams.
    My point isn't about knowing or not knowing Franky's dream. My point is that Oda loves to throws a "rule" and just twist the plot until it fits on the rule. So, to make a prediction you have to take STRONG facts and STRONG rules, otherwise you have too much open twists and Oda can take any direction (in the limit, he could also change the rules, but that is another story). Because of that, it is much more easy to say what is possible than what is impossible for Oda.

    Said that: do you think that Oda can't find a solution to make Franky join, besides the fact that we know his dream of making a ship to sail all seas? I think people here gave some pretty funny and completely Oda style's ideas: Franky as a boat, incomplete boat, complete boat with Frank fixing it, pluton and only with Franky help to handle it, etc... donīt you think?

    []s

  20. #140
    Idealistic Mercenary
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    Default Re: The problem with Franky joining.

    Ugh, Vivi's *cough* dream wasn't about saving her country. Yes, it's her goal that time, but not her life dream.

    If Franky joined, I imagine SH would have a fleet of automated cute Battle Frankies XD *not likely gonna happen though*

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