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Thread: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

  1. #61

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    It's pointless and counter productive.
    It's actually worse than the baseless speculation about what would happen in the story.
    What, would you rather people just praise, whine and hate and leave it at that ? Any speculation is pointless at the end of the day, it's just what we enjoy doing. If one brand of speculation annoys you, keep ignoring it and everyone'll be fine.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Zar View Post
    In my defence the splitting of double pages on Manga Plus is horrible and this chapter in particular is suffering heavily from that.
    Sorry if somebody already responded to this, I haven´t read the whole thread yet, but when you open a chapter on Manga Plus, in the upper right corner are 3 vertical dots (settings), use horizontal reading direction, that one does not split double pages like the vertical one. I had the same issue as you originally. The reading experience is much better (less confusing) that way IMO.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    And here I thought forums like these were places where people went to share and discuss different opinions about topics they care about enough to have an opinion on.
    Turns out they're actually places where people expect to find big echo chambers of their own point of view, and bursting or even shaking the bubble a little is rude and stupid.
    You may think it's an innocent enough thing you're doing when you point out stuff you didn't like in the manga for kids about magic pirates, but you're actualy ruining someone's day.

    About the chapter, I liked Luffy's motivational speech to Momo. As a whole their relationship is the best outside-of-crew actual friendship we've seen i think, made good use of the long time spent together to build a unique bond. Also wise Luffy is my personal favorite kind of serious Luffy, wisdom is a a better kingly feature than punching huge people.

    I kinda wish that a bit of such wisdom was used earlier to help progress Usopp a little, since he's the long running main charachter with the courage issues and is kinda stuck in his arc since the timeskip, but I'mm hesitant to speak such a controversial thought out loud.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  4. #64

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubtro View Post
    Sorry if somebody already responded to this, I haven´t read the whole thread yet, but when you open a chapter on Manga Plus, in the upper right corner are 3 vertical dots (settings), use horizontal reading direction, that one does not split double pages like the vertical one. I had the same issue as you originally. The reading experience is much better (less confusing) that way IMO.
    Oh my god THANK YOU.
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  5. #65
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    What, would you rather people just praise, whine and hate and leave it at that ?
    Maybe just discuss the story?

    But I get it if that's too small of a sandbox for you.

    Any speculation is pointless at the end of the day
    This is untrue. Stop with the false equivalence as if all speculating is equal and the same.


    it's just what we enjoy doing.
    Even going by your posts it does not come off that you guys enjoy speculating that Oda is rushing in telling the story.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Oh, well, if what you're looking for is someone to argue with, let's leave it at that. I don't especially enjoy multi-quote posts that dissect arguments down to the last word, much less so if they're about telling me how I should or should not discuss a manga about rubber pirates.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post

    This is untrue. Stop with the false equivalence as if all speculating is equal and the same.
    So have we to acknowledge Zik as the one and only true sage who can decide which speculations "about what would happen in the story" are baseless and which are not ?

  8. #68
    Future good poster NER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    And here I thought forums like these were places where people went to share and discuss different opinions about topics they care about enough to have an opinion on.
    Turns out they're actually places where people expect to find big echo chambers of their own point of view, and bursting or even shaking the bubble a little is rude and stupid.
    You may think it's an innocent enough thing you're doing when you point out stuff you didn't like in the manga for kids about magic pirates, but you're actualy ruining someone's day.

    About the chapter, I liked Luffy's motivational speech to Momo. As a whole their relationship is the best outside-of-crew actual friendship we've seen i think, made good use of the long time spent together to build a unique bond. Also wise Luffy is my personal favorite kind of serious Luffy, wisdom is a a better kingly feature than punching huge people.

    I kinda wish that a bit of such wisdom was used earlier to help progress Usopp a little, since he's the long running main charachter with the courage issues and is kinda stuck in his arc since the timeskip, but I'mm hesitant to speak such a controversial thought out loud.
    As it is valid to criticize and dislike stuff, it's just as valid when someone sees a pitiful attempt at nitpicking and calls it just that.



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  9. #69

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    I'm somewhat confused as to what the idea here is. Is it like this kind of a true artist does not have to answer to the rabble that consumes his work type of thing? Or why would speculating about the whys of a subjective drop in quality or a perceived rushed pace be any different from any other speculation taking place on our little board. Personally i think it is fair game to poke, prod, guess and speculate about any random minutia that catches your fancy

  10. #70

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by NER View Post
    As it is valid to criticize and dislike stuff, it's just as valid when someone sees a pitiful attempt at nitpicking and calls it just that.
    Except explicit call outs to specific "pitiful nitpickers" are very rare and sparse, while there's an abundance of quite passive-aggressive general anathemas on "cynics" and "nitpickers".
    But even if that wasn't the case, how about engaging in a disucussion on statements you disagree with, instead of preemptively dismissing other's stances based on arbitrary classifications?
    Best case you unmask the petty nitpicker who just wants to get attention anyway, while the worst thing that could happen is that you actually discover a different point of view you didn't consider earlier.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  11. #71
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    So have we to acknowledge Zik as the one and only true sage who can decide which speculations "about what would happen in the story" are baseless and which are not ?
    One is speculation about the story the other is not.

    Pay attention.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  12. #72

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    I am saddend to see that the term austrich egg pickers has not picked up any traction

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    As I already said in the spoiler section, there're huge hints Oda is urging to rush things (as he probably is already mentally concentrating on next things). They are:
    - the haki clashing moment rushed in only two panels, none of them being really graphically impacting. Ways to improve it following Oda's usual rules: inserting two shots of Luffy and Kaido's faces (or fist/bagua) focusing on them struggling just near the sky-splitting panel; not running to the next scene, inserting people actually commenting the scene (I mean, even not looking at the sky, the clash should've rumbled the whole island) and then shifting to Inu-Neko.
    - Jack and Perospero's final moment is cut off in an uncountable number of ways, two over all: the Sulong transformation is reiterated just to give the final blow impact. It could've been easily resolved not putting the first Sulong transformation few chapters ago, and keeping the sky covered the whole time; Jack and Pero just cut from final blow to them laying on the ground's focus shot. And this is really not Oda-ish, as he usually put a middle shot where you can actually see the opponent flying/falling/landing or whatever. This is the due the building tension have to be released before you get satisfaction. So 1. tension increasing (struggling/emotive involvement), 2. final blow, 3. tension release, 4. satisfaction. The tension hadn't been build enough, as the last time we saw Neko and Inu, they were ALREADY winning. The cloud problem has been introduced and resolved in this very chapter, don't giving the reader the time to metabolize it. And I repeat: it could've been easily avoided by placing it way back on the first Sulong transformation's place.

    This is just plain tension building rules, which actually are the very fundament of every One Piece fight. Do you remember when you began wishing for Sai to hit the fuck off of Lao G's head when the old man actually did nothing until a chapter before? That was tension building.

    And I am not judging Oda as a "bad writer" or whatever: he's just rushing up things in order to reach a plot point (Luffy vs Kaido's final fight?) and it's not event he first time he does it. This time it is just pretty much undeniable, due storytelling screaming for it. Judging is for later on the arc as a whole.
    Quote Originally Posted by rayleigh92 View Post
    Carrot sneaked on the Sunny when they left Zou, not asking or requesting anyone. IF Carrot is going to join, I expect something like that, with the crew ready to leave Wano, all of them beginning to party for new nakama Yamato and then "wha-t?! Carrot is near Luffy

  14. #74
    Future good poster NER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    Except explicit call outs to specific "pitiful nitpickers" are very rare and sparse, while there's an abundance of quite passive-aggressive general anathemas on "cynics" and "nitpickers".
    But even if that wasn't the case, how about engaging in a disucussion on statements you disagree with, instead of preemptively dismissing other's stances based on arbitrary classifications?
    Best case you unmask the petty nitpicker who just wants to get attention anyway, while the worst thing that could happen is that you actually discover a different point of view you didn't consider earlier.
    I shan't be bothered with all that. As some others stated before me, this forum is now reserved for those disposed to dislike and nitpick. I shall leave to never come back again. Better than seeing posts with such scarred logic, so much so that it's offensive for my eyes to read.



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  15. #75

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    The bad mood arc of AP must have followed the proper structures because it has given an emotional resonance. Wolfwoods character arc in particular is a divisive one, is he a hater as salty as the ocean? Or is he the dream boat of the board, a loveable scamp with eyes to drown in. We may never know (but it is of course both)

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by NER View Post
    I shan't be bothered with all that. As some others stated before me, this forum is now reserved for those disposed to dislike and nitpick. I shall leave to never come back again. Better than seeing posts with such scarred logic, so much so that it's offensive for my eyes to read.
    It is funny how my memory of you is of a nice fun guy. But here you are talking down to people and acting high and mighty. Not that you care of course, as a offensive complainer like myself is beneath the notice of your grace

  16. #76

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    I don't mind Oda cutting corners to move the story along, he's been doing it since the timeskip. But there's a difference in cutting something in a way that it's pages instead of entire chapters, or relayed purely in dialogue, and then there's cutting soemthing in a way its just disjointed panels that don't flow well.

    When he cuts too much, too deep, it hurts the overall story.

    Like I said, I never wanted nor expected some mega 6 chapter battle between the minks and Jack, (that's for the anime to pick up) but the way its presented here, rushed as possible just... makes it not work.

    rayleigh92 nailed it, normally there's 1. tension 2. final blow, 3. tension release, 4. satisfaction. When you cut even that four panel setup down to just two panels (for the sake of page space I guess) it's just too much and it hinders the overall impact. That's why Luffy finally splitting the sky didn't quite land emotionally or dramatically..

    And yeah, having the minks go sulong for a chapter cliffhanger, then revert back off camera due to an obstacle raised this very chapter, and then undone so they can go all out again... with no real space to breathe and take this idea in... the corner cutting adds up.

    Like if we'd just cut the tengu guy at the start of the chapter that would have given the rest time to breathe with that extra two pages. I have to assume this is a volume start chapter and that's why its there, but...


    Quote Originally Posted by NER View Post
    I shan't be bothered with all that. As some others stated before me, this forum is now reserved for those disposed to dislike and nitpick. I shall leave to never come back again. Better than seeing posts with such scarred logic, so much so that it's offensive for my eyes to read.
    If you truly feel that way, have fun wherever you go next!

    But I'm willing to wager you'll be on here again. Lurking at the very least, if not posting.
    Last edited by Robby; September 27th, 2021 at 05:41 AM.
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  17. #77
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I think the speculation about it at all is the problem.

    But I guess after 20 or even 10+ years of reading, fans feel they're well versed or even experts on storytelling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    One is speculation about the story the other is not.

    Pay attention.
    There seems to be two things going on here – you both complain that “fans feel they're well versed or even experts on storytelling”, i.e. of fans making critical assessment of the effectiveness of the storytelling, and also of the very idea of speculating on the reason for storytelling choices.

    Why is either of those things bad? Surely its better to devote energy to try and articulate why certain storytelling choices didn’t land for someone than just going “I did not like this”, even if you personally don’t agree with the reasoning? I don’t see how you could “counter” this “problem” apart from people just stating their feelings with no justification (hardly seems better) or not saying anything at all.
    And yes speculating on the reasons for why a thing turned out the way it did is different than speculating on future developments in the story, but both are rooted entirely in trying to get into Odas head, and why exactly is one “better” or “more correct”? Why is dedication to the divination of OP’s futures more worthwhile than engaging with the OP that actually is?
    What would “discussing the actual story” look like to you?

    Whatever it is, you don’t seem to be doing much of it yourself, because across your six posts in this thread all of them concern not really the chapter, but your railing against people critical of the chapter. You don’t care for people speculating meta-reasons for why Oda writes what he writes, yet over and over you offer such, always unflattering, speculations on the reasons why the people being critical are being critical, and how they must be actually miserable in doing so– the actual people right here engaging in conversation mind, not a world-famous author who will never see this discussion.

    The only time you touch on “discussing OP” is when you counter someones negative feelings on Momo biting Kaidou by providing a (non-textually substantiated) justification for it, but worded in a way that frames the other poster as having read the sequence with a faulty perspective.

    You may not personally prefer discussing OP through the lens of critically evaluating the storytelling choices, or pondering the underlying reasons for them, but at least the people doing that are actually engaging with the subject of One Piece.

    By focusing almost entirely on complaining of other people complaining, you, effectively, are not.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    I've read some post, who said that they are not satisfied with how the fight went between the Jack and Dogstorm and Perospero and Catviper. I do understand where you are coming from and I wished for a bit more of a struggle for Perospero and Jack, or showing some cool moves against the two minks.

    For me personally the chapter showed the struggle of Catviper and Dogstorm, as without Sulong they are powerless against Perospero and Jack.
    I agree it would have been cool to see, them being attacked by Jack and Perospero and than falling down, while reverting back to their normal form, which would help built up tension.
    This would have made Luffys clash against Kaido more powerful in the end and the impact of the clouds splitting, revealing the full moon, more powerful and satisfactory.
    I'm not an expert if this would be possible to show in a few panels or a page, but well. It did not happen. What we got instead is the single panel, which shows the moon covered and than on the next page we get to see Perospero and Jack seemingly ready to land the final blow. We did not see that as well, does it bother me, a bit yes. But Oda tried to wrap up the mink story line fast, so he could move on to more important story points, which he obviously deems to be more important than the minks, did he succeed with wrapping up the minks story of Zou and WCI? Yes, is it to my full satisfaction, no.

    Never the less the chapter accomplished far more important aspects for me personally.
    It officially established for me, that Luffy is now able to hold his own against Kaido, will he be able to do that for a whole fight by himself, if Yamato and Momo should leave, is another question. But he grew more into his role of the future Pirate King.
    Momo might gain, thanks to Luffy, an even greater strength, finally some confidence in himself. I think he acquired the physical strength needed to stand up to anyone but lacked the confidence to actually do something meaningful. This has changed.
    So now I cant wait for the next chapter to drop and see what happens next. I hope that we will see a bit more of Orochi and the conclusion of one of the other minor fights, maybe that of Hawkins and Killer or we might find out what X Drake has been up to the past couple of volumes.
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  19. #79
    Partly Sunny Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    Given the treatment the Mink have gotten throughout the Wano Arc, it appears Oda just wasn't that interested in their story relative to everything else he has going on. It would explain why the conclusion of Inuarashi and Nekomamushi's conflicts feel so rushed - Oda was focused on only wanting to conclude what he started with the Minks and nothing more. I am not sure if Oda gets bored with characters he creates but throughout the Wano Arc, his handling of the Mink has been lacking excitement.

    I wonder if Jack were matched up against a Straw Hat Pirate or Marco or Law or Kid or Yamato if he would have been focused on more substantially. He probably would have if only to highlight the Straw Hat Pirate/Marco/Law/Kid/Yamato.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Chapter 1,026: The Pivotal Clash

    I've said it in another thread but I feel like the only reason Jack got this treatment was because he was the main villain of a previous arc already and so Oda doesn't feel like he neds to treat Jack on the same level as Queen or King. Those two are new to this arc and Queen especially has got a lot of focus, while Jack is a returning character. Perospero is also a returning character, although I'm a little confused at why he is even here to be honest (unlike Jack who has to be here). I'm hoping it has a bigger impact on something later on in the story.

    Given the tease of Orochi at the end of this chapter, I reckon the next chapter will be all about defeating him. Start with Raizo and Fukurokuju with the latter explaining Orochi's ability after Raizo notices the corpse has gone, then cut to Orochi with Hiyori (revealing she was the silhouette from before), then Denjiro appears because he suspected Orochi was still alive. End the chapter with either Hiyori or Denjiro taking Orochi out (and maybe Raizo beating Fukurokoju). That's my prediction for 1,027.

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