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Thread: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

  1. #101

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    No, I'm saying Oda obscured the details because One Piece is a story constructed by a person outside the narrative. The characters don't think an speak for themselves. The world emerges from Oda's imagination so you do have to consider what Oda is communicating to readers through dialogue and the manner he chooses to convey information.

    The Straw Hats were given vague details about Lodestar secondhand from a character who has not been there. Nami says this information seemingly clashes with information from another character who knows even more about the world. Inuarushi confirms that Crocus knows more and wouldn't mislead them.

    The fact is that Oda, the author of the story who puts the words in the mouths of the characters, chose to obscure the details about Lodestar Island. He's obviously not going to leave something so important unexplained. He isn't a lazy or incompetent author who would take such a narrative shortcut (oh that place is super important, but you got spoilers so don't worry about it).

    The Straw Hats will visit Lodestar. If that were not the case, Inuarushi would have explained in full, exactly what the final island on the log path contains, why it's so hard to reach, and how Roger learned those details.

    Oda has also filled in more information about said final island. He wouldn't continue adding details if it were so unimportant. The name Lodestar was revealed in Roger's conversation with Oden and Whitebeard in chapter 966.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghidorah Guy View Post
    It's always possible that reaching Laugh Tale requires one to go through Lodestar. Frankly, I'm fairly sure Lodestar and Laugh Tale exist within relative proximity to each other, making it at the very least a natural stop on the path.

    That's also assuming, of course, that nothing else happens that may jeopardize the Strawhats' intel, e.g. a Road poneglyph imprint getting smudged last minute, some villain absconding with one post-Wano, etc....But I'm leaning towards the former.

    More than a simple pit stop, I feel Lodestar's the "platform" necessary to cross over.
    I think there's a good chance Big Mom steals the Wano Poneglyph before the Straw Hats get to read t.
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  2. #102

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vongola_Boss_XI View Post
    No, I'm saying Oda obscured the details because One Piece is a story constructed by a person outside the narrative. The characters don't think an speak for themselves. The world emerges from Oda's imagination so you do have to consider what Oda is communicating to readers through dialogue and the manner he chooses to convey information.
    It's good that you have this notion, because it's precisely because of it that I'm saying what I'm saying. It's you who's creating hierarchies to decide the validity of information as if the characters speak for themselves (instead of being vessels of the author), thus, by your logic, Inuarashi can't say something that "overrules" what Crocus said 20 years ago because Inuarashi technically knows less than Crocus. However, what Inuarashi was saying is just contextualized with the current moment of the story and where the crew is at in their journey, and those dialogues were all obviously flowing from the author.

    By the way... fun trivia: Crocus never went to Lodestar.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    I always saw them learning about Road Poneglyphs much earlier than they were meant to as Oda simply cutting corners to get to the end of the story faster

  4. #104

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    It's good that you have this notion, because it's precisely because of it that I'm saying what I'm saying. It's you who's creating hierarchies to decide the validity of information as if the characters speak for themselves (instead of being vessels of the author), thus, by your logic, Inuarashi can't say something that "overrules" what Crocus said 20 years ago because Inuarashi technically knows less than Crocus. However, what Inuarashi was saying is just contextualized with the current moment of the story and where the crew is at in their journey, and those dialogues were all obviously flowing from the author.

    By the way... fun trivia: Crocus never went to Lodestar.
    But what Inuarushi says does not overrule anything Crocus said. He directly says 'carry on' - do what Crocus said. Crocus hasn't been to Lodestar, but he has been to Laugh Tale which means he understands why going to Lodestar may be important.

    But the broader point, again, is that Oda would not have been vague. He would have directly explained what's on Lodestar island. But he didn't because the Straw Hats will go there.
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  5. #105
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    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post



    That's just pure speculation because since we don't know, it could be anything.
    Like with most islands.

    There's nothing wrong with this kind of speculation, but it's just gambling. You can even be right, since gamblers win too.
    You're missing the point.

    If the author decides to move the story in that direction then it will have significance.

    But the island already has a defined role, and I don't see any clues in the story that it has another one.
    This is a gross assumption. Not at any point is Lodestar defined as existing for that sole reason.

    And you don't really need to see clues for it either. You could make that same argument for the crew deciding to go to Skypeia given they only went there cuz the log pointed up and Luffy wanted to go to an island in the sky. The problem here is you're only thinking about one thing in relation to going to that island (or any for that matter) as if the story serves the plot.
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  6. #106

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Yeah, the other side of it is that Luffy will want to go there. I can't imagine him not caring about going to an island only Roger is known to have visited.
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  7. #107

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    You're missing the point. // If the author decides to move the story in that direction then it will have significance. // This is a gross assumption. Not at any point is Lodestar defined as existing for that sole reason. // And you don't really need to see clues for it either. You could make that same argument for the crew deciding to go to Skypeia given they only went there cuz the log pointed up and Luffy wanted to go to an island in the sky. The problem here is you're only thinking about one thing in relation to going to that island (or any for that matter) as if the story serves the plot.
    Of course we'll go there if the author decides to move the story there, LOL, that's almost a tautology. What we're discussing is our current information to predict where the story is moving to and what the author wants to do. For example, it was obvious we were coming to Wano, and it's an obvious guess that we're going to Laugh Tale someday, and it's been heavily foreshadowed that we'll visit Elbaf. As for Lodestar, the way I understand it, going there is purely speculative right now. When the SHs were strictly following the Log Pose to reach the "last island" it was a given that we would get there, but now characters have been telling us that we've taken a shortcut and we already know what that island has to offer in terms of information.

    "If you are curious to see where the log leads you, you are free to follow it. There is a point where all three needles point you to the same location. HOWEVER, on yourgara travels, you have already begun the next adventure. [...] NORMALLY, it is when you reach the log's end point that you come to the a realization of the mystery of the ancient writing of the Poneglyphs, and the civilization that gave birth to it, and the existence of Raftel, the final unseen island! From that point, Roger started his adventure anew." <-- all things we know.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Vongola_Boss_XI View Post
    But what Inuarushi says does not overrule anything Crocus said. He directly says 'carry on' - do what Crocus said.
    No, lol, Inuarashi never said that. Nami was worried because the SHs were not following the Log Pose anymore (not before they came to Zou, and they would keep not following it for the next adventures), so she was afraid they were straying out of the path because she always thought Laugh Tale would be the last island in the Log Pose (she literally says that), and then Inuarashi calms her by saying that "you're not in the wrong path, continue on your way" (which is not following the Log Pose) since they're already doing the next adventure collecting the Poneglyphs.

  8. #108
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Of course we'll go there if the author decides to move the story there, LOL, that's almost a tautology. What we're discussing is our current information to predict where the story is moving to and what the author wants to do. For example, it was obvious we were coming to Wano, and it's an obvious guess that we're going to Laugh Tale someday, and it's been heavily foreshadowed that we'll visit Elbaf. As for Lodestar, the way I understand it, going there is purely speculative right now. When the SHs were strictly following the Log Pose to reach the "last island" it was a given that we would get there, but now characters have been telling us that we've taken a shortcut and we already know what that island has to offer in terms of information.

    "If you are curious to see where the log leads you, you are free to follow it. There is a point where all three needles point you to the same location. HOWEVER, on yourgara travels, you have already begun the next adventure. [...] NORMALLY, it is when you reach the log's end point that you come to the a realization of the mystery of the ancient writing of the Poneglyphs, and the civilization that gave birth to it, and the existence of Raftel, the final unseen island! From that point, Roger started his adventure anew." <-- all things we know.
    To me Lodestar is no different than Skypeia, Fishman island, etc.

    Stops the log pointed to that the strawhats also wanted to go to.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  9. #109

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Maybe once upon a time twenty years ago Oda's intention was for the crew to get to Lodestar and then discover they needed the glyphs and then make another trip around to get them.

    But he completely cut the need for that. It's an extraneous location now. He put in the lore bit he wanted "Hey, this is technically the last island and where you find out about stuff"... and he did in in one panel instead of spending six months on it.

    They can still visit the place, sure... but Oda already wrote it in such a way its no longer NEEDED now for the story. He expressed the fun neat idea he had in mind for it, but now doesn't need a full trip just to do that one cool thing. Of course he CAN put more juicy bits and interesting scenarios there, he can do that anywhere.

    Considering we didn't even know about Lodestar and just thought of Laugh tale as the end, it's not even like its one of the places we've been waiting for for decades. It was introduced and then made irrelevant within the same page.
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  10. #110

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    To me Lodestar is no different than Skypeia, Fishman island, etc.

    Stops the log pointed to that the strawhats also wanted to go to.
    Maybe there'll be a moment when we'll see a scene of Luffy wanting to go there (speculation), but the crew hasn't shown any particular in Lodestar yet. For example, we've seen Usopp mentioning his desire to visit Elbaf back in Little Garden, and as you remembered the crew was obviously excited about Skypiea and Fishmen Island before going there. But is there such a thing for Lodestar? Not really.

    The SHs were following the Log Pose because it was the normal way to travel in the GL, and there was the common misunderstanding (explicitly mentioned by Nami) that Laugh Tale would be the last island on the Log Pose, which now they know it's not true. So that's it. We've never seen the crew's intent to go there for the sake of it, or any remark of excitement whatsoever regarding Lodestar. Even while Inuarashi and Nekomamushi were explaining everything, there was no Luffy saying "wait, a mysterious island where the Pirate King started his journey anew? interesting!", probably because Oda wants to avoid the island. By the way, Luffy was not even bothered that the SHs found a shortcut to the One Piece.

    Before, I said to Vongola that this is a "mystery" the readers are creating out of empty space, because there's a difference between when an author is creating a mystery in an "affirmative way" (when the characters themselves are wondering about something or showing interest), and when the supposed "mystery" is born out of a lack of detailed description by the author, thus being a "vacuum" which the readers jump into. Just look at Vongola's thought process: since Oda didn't go to lenghts to describe how the information is conveyed at Lodestar (which is just a plot device), then Oda must be preparing to show it later, because he cannot accept a blank space. However, the narrative didn't present it as a mystery in an affirmative way.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    I always saw them learning about Road Poneglyphs much earlier than they were meant to as Oda simply cutting corners to get to the end of the story faster
    I don't see it quite like that.

    I think Oda always intended to write the SH's journey in a straight line -- not coincidentally, one of his most brilliant inventions is the Grand Line, an ocean which is a line. The SHs never go backwards. Always forward, narratively and geographically.

    So the fact that the most harcore way to complete the journey (which is how Roger did it) is to go wandering around in a roundabout way, back and forward, was always incovenient to the progressive shape of the narrative. Oda most likely was always planning to do big shortcuts and have everything fall into place without the need of going back. It's neat, actually.
    Last edited by theackwardstation; October 6th, 2021 at 12:58 PM.

  11. #111
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    Default Eiichiro Oda: &quot;The story is in the final phase&quot;

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I don't see it quite like that.

    I think Oda always intended to write the SH's journey in a straight line -- not coincidentally, one of his most brilliant inventions is the Grand Line, an ocean which is a line. The SHs never go backwards. Always forward, narratively and geographically.

    So the fact that the most harcore way to complete the journey (which is how Roger did it) is to go wandering around in a roundabout way, back and forward, was always incovenient to the progressive shape of the narrative. Oda most likely was always planning to do big shortcuts and have everything fall into place without the need of going back. It's neat, actually.
    Basically what Robby said. It probably was the plan for a while, before a five-year series turned into a 2.5 decades long behemoth and he had to make a decision between either sticking to his original plan or shortening parts to leave room for others.
    Also, everything between Sabaody and the timeskip was one entire detour for all Straw Hats and Luffy especially, both narratively and geographically. It was a huge "deal with some side quests first and grind for a while so you meet the level requirements for the next main quest". Whole Cake Island was also a side trip for half the crew. Depending on how pedantic you want to be, Water 7 - Enies Lobby - Water 7 wasn't a straight line either.
    Last edited by Coookie; October 6th, 2021 at 01:55 PM.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: &quot;The story is in the final phase&quot;

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    Basically what Robby said. It probably was the plan for a while, before a five-year series turned into a 2.5 decades long behemoth and he had to make a decision between either sticking to his original plan or shortening parts to leave room for others.
    I'm not sure. A lot of the things that pirates are only supposed to learn in Lodestar was already being told to the readers long before the timeskip. We even recruited Robin in the first saga of the Grand Line and found some Poneglyphs on the way, not to mention Robin's flashback, which was already Oda making the journey more linear instead of roundabout. The last thing to discover before officializing this straighforward approach full of lucky encounters was the Road Poneglyphs.

    That said, we can't really know what Oda pretended to do with the "last-island-at-the-end-of-the-Log-Pose" when he started writing the story, or how he was structuring the adventure. Maybe, hypothetically, the island was originally intended to be Laugh Tale, or maybe it had another narrative function that's completely different from the concept of the island we now call Lodestar. What I really doubt is that Oda ever intended to have the SHs only learn about the Poneglyphs and stuff at that point in the story and then start their journey anew just like the Roger Pirates did.

    Also, everything between Sabaody and the timeskip was one entire detour for all Straw Hats and Luffy especially, both narratively and geographically. It was a huge "deal with some side quests first and grind for a while so you meet the level requirements for the next main quest". Whole Cake Island was also a side trip for half the crew.
    The defeat in Sabaody certainly created an abnormal intermission, but as a crew the SHs stopped at Sabaody and restarted at Sabaody to keep linear forward momentum.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    If it weren't a mystery Oda wouldn't have been as vague and he wouldn't have had Roger be the only person to reach Lodestar in centuries.

    Why is it so hard to simply follow the log path to the extent that Lodestar was widely believed to be the mythic final island?

    It makes sense for Laugh Tale to be unreachable because the Road Poneglyphs are required. No one before Roger was able to assemble the full message and find a person capable of deciphering the stones.

    It's unfounded to say Oda abandoned plans for Lodestar. If he had, he wouldn't have ben so vague, nor would he continue to build the lore surrounding the island.
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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Maybe there'll be a moment when we'll see a scene of Luffy wanting to go there (speculation), but the crew hasn't shown any particular in Lodestar yet. For example, we've seen Usopp mentioning his desire to visit Elbaf back in Little Garden, and as you remembered the crew was obviously excited about Skypiea and Fishmen Island before going there. But is there such a thing for Lodestar? Not really.
    The crew doesn't really show any desire for a particular island as individuals and collectively they go as the captain wants/orders. Its been the case with every island they were hyped to go to from Skypeia (island in the sky) to Water 7 (fix our ship and get a shipwright) to Fishman island (island under the sea) to Punk Hazard (Luffy's whim?) to Wano (Momo and Law's alliance aside they would've been going to see ninja regardless).

    So right now it doesn't mean a lot that Lodestar island hasn't been hyped up yet given everything that has been going on. Usopp talks about the Giants and Elbaf a good deal based on the giants they've met but Luffy is just as enamored with them and they'll be going there cuz he wants to. Lets not pretend other members of the crew have go to islands they want checked off. Laughtale is obvious cuz it's a part of Luffy's dream (and Robin's and Nami but that's a map the whole world dream that would require going to all the blue seas as well and the story isn't being detoured for that).
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  15. #115

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    ...
    I didn't mean to refer to the "crew" as the non-Luffy members. I was just mentioning them as a whole, like saying "the SHs". My point is that, up until now, we haven't seen them -- including Luffy -- showing any interest in Lodestar, so it doesn't fit into the same group of islands (Fishmen Island, Skypiea or Elbaf) that you've been trying to it connect to.

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I didn't mean to refer to the "crew" as the non-Luffy members. I was just mentioning them as a whole, like saying "the SHs". My point is that, up until now, we haven't seen them -- including Luffy -- showing any interest in Lodestar, so it doesn't fit into the same group of islands (Fishmen Island, Skypiea or Elbaf) that you've been trying to it connect to.
    They didn't show interest in Skypeia until they did, they didn't show interest in Fishman island until they did, etc.

    Elbaf being the exception given when giants were introduced in the story but other than that it's been the same. New arc starts, new destination is suggested or decided upon and then the crew begins to show interest. Its basically what happened after Enies Lobby and at the start of the Jaya arc.

    Expect the same with Lodestar.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  17. #117

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    They didn't show interest in Skypeia until they did, they didn't show interest in Fishman island until they did, etc.

    Expect the same with Lodestar.
    Dude, when I say this is purely speculative, you should just agree and we would be happy. There's nothing wrong with being speculative, like a gut feeling or something, but why the heck are you arguing as if it happened already but you came from the future. Give me the time machine, I want it.

  18. #118
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Dude, when I say this is purely speculative, you should just agree and we would be happy. There's nothing wrong with being speculative, like a gut feeling or something, but why the heck are you arguing as if it happened already but you came from the future. Give me the time machine, I want it.
    I'm just following what Oda's been doing since they got in the Grandline. Its been pretty old hat and obvious.

    I don't really see it as some risky long reaching gamble of a prediction.

    But I guess you can just put an "I" in front of that bolded statement to just feel better about it.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  19. #119

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Lodestar just seems like discount Laugh Tale and it’s pretty hard to care about that on it’s own right.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Eiichiro Oda: "The story is in the final phase"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vongola_Boss_XI View Post
    If it weren't a mystery Oda wouldn't have been as vague and he wouldn't have had Roger be the only person to reach Lodestar in centuries.

    Why is it so hard to simply follow the log path to the extent that Lodestar was widely believed to be the mythic final island?

    It makes sense for Laugh Tale to be unreachable because the Road Poneglyphs are required. No one before Roger was able to assemble the full message and find a person capable of deciphering the stones.

    It's unfounded to say Oda abandoned plans for Lodestar. If he had, he wouldn't have ben so vague, nor would he continue to build the lore surrounding the island.
    He did not, that scene is basically Oda telling us that LaughTale is not the last Island and that the last island is not the main goal for the crew, the path they are on right now will lead them to what they really want(LaughTale), following the Log will lead them to Lodestar which will be a waste of time since what lies in there is something they already know.

    Can they go there? Sure. But Oda is telling us is kinda pointless right now.
    Last edited by Hakai; October 14th, 2021 at 02:31 AM.

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