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Thread: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

  1. #141
    Nothing Really Mattress Czechmate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    What I mean is "I don't think it would be a bad thing necessarily if Zoro was related to Ryuuma, but I'm genuinely confused why people are concluding that when I don't think that's what the story is telling us," and I apologize if that wasn't clear.

  2. #142
    BEST! BREAST!! CON-TEST!!! dirt monkey AL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    all right, fair enough
    Last edited by dirt monkey AL; August 30th, 2021 at 01:13 PM. Reason: just like how I don't know how much clearer it has to be for you, but apparently it just has to be said outright by Oda himself from upon high, so yeah
    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.



  3. #143

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Not really, just brutally honest.
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  4. #144
    BEST! BREAST!! CON-TEST!!! dirt monkey AL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    and gross, no need to explain
    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.



  5. #145

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    That's rude, man.
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  6. #146
    BEST! BREAST!! CON-TEST!!! dirt monkey AL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    Nah, I agree with him that you can easily it that way given Kaido's use of the word "either". Especially since it's not like Luffy ever brought up Joy Boy to Kaido in the first place, so there's a good chance he had someone in his thoughts when he was saying that.
    would you happen to remember which chapter this was said? I wanna peek at the Japanese for clarification - it IS possible he might've thought of Ace
    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.



  7. #147

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by dirt monkey AL View Post
    would you happen to remember which chapter this was said? I wanna peek at the Japanese for clarification - it IS possible he might've thought of Ace
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  8. #148

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Czechmate View Post
    Just like people pointing out the connections between Luffy and Roger suggest they're directly related, huh?

    fwiw it doesn't matter to me much if Zoro is a descendant of Ryuuma, though I'd obviously be interested to see how that's confirmed/addressed in the story or SBS or whatever. I just feel like I'm reading a different manga than everyone else when I read internet discourse sometimes - the conclusion of 'Shimotsuki Zoro' from this chapter feels like bizarre mental gymnastics to me. oh well.
    For me the whole grind to a halt info dump with complimentary illustrations is too clunky and on the nose to be unintentional, and since we already know Zoro was brought up in a Wano exile community, we have no idea who his parents were and Oda has been cagey about giving away his heritage in SBS questions it all points in one direction and i personally don't even think of it as a leap to an assumption, maybe a dainty skip at most.

  9. #149
    BEST! BREAST!! CON-TEST!!! dirt monkey AL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    welp, and there's that も

    so it's likely he was referencing Ace because everyone else thought it would be Ace
    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.



  10. #150

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Zoro being related to Shimotsuki family from Wano is fine. It's just a way to connect characters to settings and story. It didn't change his efforts or personality.


    But Sunnachi being his catchphrase, that he apparently said so often that Momo heard it even though having been on the ship for a few days is... a badly handled retcon. It could just have been a single use (seeing Momo and Kinemon reminded Zoro of his village and something the old guy said...)

  11. #151

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    Zoro being related to Shimotsuki family from Wano is fine. It's just a way to connect characters to settings and story. It didn't change his efforts or personality.


    But Sunnachi being his catchphrase, that he apparently said so often that Momo heard it even though having been on the ship for a few days is... a badly handled retcon. It could just have been a single use (seeing Momo and Kinemon reminded Zoro of his village and something the old guy said...)
    The way I took it, it's not that Momonosuke heard Zoro say, it's that Zoro gave Momonosuke some training advice at some point between Zou and Wano, and he remembered the catchphrase an elder from his village said would boost one's resolve.

    In essence, it's not something Zoro usually does, just that, to give a child some swordsmanship advice, he remembered an advice that he himself was given as a child.
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  12. #152
    BEST! BREAST!! CON-TEST!!! dirt monkey AL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Zoro never said it - he said someone from his village said it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.



  13. #153

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    I forgot the SBS confirmed Kozaburo and the "old guy" (old geezer) to be the same person. It's simply 3 options.

    Zoro's family is one of the villagers that was taught by the Wano locals.

    Zoro is related to a Wano local that came along with Kozaburo.

    Related to Kozaburo.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    That's rude, man.
    No, this is rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    Nah, I just want to have a laugh with the snowflakes that immediately called Yamato "trans". Nothing else.
    Like, first of all let's just clear the air; by "snowflakes" you mean genderqueer people that are happy to see someone like themselves represented in One Piece (like myself), or people who are not genderqueer themselves but care about representation and are happy for those same genderqueer fans mentioned prior. So then let's get this one straight; you'd rather have a laugh at the expense of queer folk having the opportunity of representation dangled in front of them and then taken away, than actually accept the fact that there is a character in-series that uses pronouns different from the ones assigned to them at birth.

    And before you start hand-wringing about authorial intent or putting words in the authors mouth or whatever I remind you that 1. Oda is the one who made the conscious decision to include a character whose gender identity is more fluid, and 2. it has already been confirmed that the team behind the series (including Oda) is well aware of the significance Yamato carries to queer fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    The development team is aware of the importance of Yamato's LGBTQ+ fans and respects that aspect of the character.

    In fact it was a topic we discussed on the WT100 program but it was dropped because, as is fairly clear, it's a devisive topic. I think (at this particular time) the view of the development team is, Yamato is what Yamato wants to be and that can be fluid, thus they're refraining from putting their foot in the ground. Some may see that as a bright move, some may see it as cowardly. I see it as respecting not only the character, but also the fans.
    Yamato is, whatever you want him to be, if you think that's what Yamato would want.
    so I'm just gonna repost this post I made from the 1,019 spoiler thread, because clearly the forum needs a reminder every few weeks that trans and nonbinary people exist (yes, in fact, on this forum too) and are worthy of some baseline respect, and that the way you discuss the topic of gender for a demonstrably queer character reflects your attitudes about gender and gender nonconforming people in real life.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDub View Post
    This isn’t a matter of Yamato “being trans” or being “described as” strictly trans and fitting some constructed criteria of what being “trans” means. That endeavor of nailing down what is and is not criteria for “being trans” quickly becomes a slippery slope of truscum-like “you’re not ACTUALLY trans unless XYZ”. There isn’t a uniform trans experience. Hell, there isn’t a uniform trans identity. The reality is a lot more nuanced than that, with as many experiences as there are people.

    Again, the matter isn’t whether Yamato fits a strict definition of “transgender”. What’s important is that he is a character assigned female at birth, that uses masculine identifiers. That’s simply queer! And I want to clarify that as an umbrella term, “queer” comes with that ambiguity built in. Yamato’s gender is whatever he wants it to be, and it’s really nice to hear from Greg that the team treats it that way. His identity doesn’t need to be nailed down into a distinct category. The important part is that he doesn’t identify with the gender assigned to him at birth, and so he changed his identifiers. And that is queer. You don’t have to pin down “what Yamato is” or if he fits strict criteria for an identity category, it’s about acknowledging the self-determination Yamato has and wields with regard to his gender.

  15. #155
    BEST! BREAST!! CON-TEST!!! dirt monkey AL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    look at them truths

    thank you, jdub
    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.



  16. #156

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Yeah, good post JDub, thanks for being the one to say it. Can't believe we've got people here unironically saying "snowflakes" in 2021.

  17. #157
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    I really don't see the big deal with Zoro being a Shimotsuki (probably on his mother's side.

    To me it'd be a much bigger deal if Oda was like Zoro is actually a Kozuki and somehow Momo is his uncle).


    Quote Originally Posted by Czechmate View Post
    I feel like I'm getting MK Ultra'd every time someone says "oh so Zoro is a Shimotsuki huh" and then getting mad about it. If Oda reveals that explicitly I'll eat my shorts, for sure, but for right now Zoro is Ryuuma's blood descendant every bit as much as Luffy is the son of the Pirate King.
    I mean Zoro is still a Roronoa. Whoever that clan may be.

    In the OP world, children still take the father's name over their mother's maiden name unless they explicitly choose their mother's or a completely other name.
    Last edited by Zik; September 7th, 2021 at 06:29 PM.
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  18. #158

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    I think the more important question is, if Zoro or Kawamatsu get to keep the fox.
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  19. #159

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I think the more important question is, if Zoro or Kawamatsu get to keep the fox.
    If anyone were to keep Onimaru, it would probably be Kawamatsu…..

    If he survives.


  20. #160

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    no problem @dirt monkey and @Captain M, glad y'all appreciated. I'm for sure not about to sit here and let that kind of nonsense pass.

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