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Thread: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

  1. #41

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    It won't surprise me if who who is down for good.
    Some talk about ulti getting back up but jinbe was savage this fight .
    Broken finger and then wrist and then full power move to the face in a short time could mean KO.
    TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .

  2. #42

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post


    Who's Who's heated moment
    It's not like Oda's shied away from themes of prejudice in this series, but I was not expecting Who's Who to go mask-off (so to speak) at Jinbe all of a sudden. What's interesting is that Jinbe, by all accounts one of the world's most prominent fishman figures, responds like he doesn't hear this kind of thing all that much anymore. He's old enough to have heard it and look weary about it, but he talks like society is a bit past casual racism in this day and age. What can we infer from that?




    Well maybe Who's Who is just a bit of a dickhead as an individual. Maybe after spending the better part of a decade in prison, he hasn't really been able to keep up with social progress. Perhaps it speaks to the kind of culture maintained in the offices of Cipher Pol and other government operatives.




    The last option would be consistent with how Oda has commented on social issues in the past. Fishman Island attacks issues of prejudice from a structural angle, pointing out how attitudes towards different people are passed down between generations. 200 years ago, the lawmakers of the World Goverment considered fishmen and merfolk no different from ocean fauna. The law has edged forward, but the Celestial Dragons are insulated from society to the point they don't even want to breathe the same air as commonfolk; what kind of attitudes have been festering in the upper ranks of the government without any real contact with the world to counter them?




    And while the laws have progressed over the years, the status quo has changed little. The fishman are no longer openly discriminated against, but they still lack the right to emigrate from the sea floor, a location every pirate entering the New World is funneled through, and which is right below a slavery hotspot, possibly the worst place for them to live. Consider how in the real world many minority groups are less likely to have slurs thrown at them in the street than their parents and grandparents' generations, but remain trapped by a lack of class mobility, leaving them in the same poor, opportunity-less socioeconomic area as their forebears. All the while, inherited wealth and better opportunities off the starting block keep olgarch class ahead of everyone else in the race. The structural elements outlive the overt bigotry. No wonder it's a sensitive topic for Jinbe.




    And then there's the big reveal, the Sun God Nika. A messianic figure for slaves that the World Government is apparently trying to keep the stories of from spreading. A man who would bring freedom and laughter to the oppressed peoples of the world. The implications to the developing lore of Joyboy and the Dawn are immediate and obvious. It also gets me thinking about the battle of God Valley, in which Roger allegedly defended the Celestial Dragons' slaves from Rocks. Even if it was before Laugh Tale, did Roger know about Nika the same way he knows about Joyboy? Then what's his motive, and what is that of Rocks? Different interpretations of the Nika story, or was Rocks perhaps planning to slaughter the slaves to remove the conditions for Nika's appearance?




    Whatever the case, this was another extremely satisfying chapter. With the amount of breaks we're due the next few weeks, hopefully all of the next lot give us this much to think about. I'd tip the Black Maria fight to be the next one put in-focus and wrapped up, given that it's a floor below Jinbe and we've already seen the effects of the battle being felt on the lower floor. It'd be an easy transition, if Oda chooses to take it. And there seems to finally be the WT100 colour spread to look forward to! I was one chapter short in my guess for it last week.

    I suppose Jinbe describing his casual racism being out of style these days could imply that he modern society in One Piece has moved past that to a partial extent in spite of what’s going on the Celestial Dragons and the nobles accusing Hatchan being a disgusting fishmen monster. I suooose it could be do to Jinbe’s own efforts when he was a warlord and Whitebeard protecting Fishmen Island which could send the message that the fishmen are worth defending even if a pirate is defending them. With Who’s-Who presumably only growing up fighting as a Cypher Pol trainee, it’s possible this might also be saying that he never really got to learn about the world as he should have and is a product of that by talking about fishmen moving less fast on land as if to insult them and asking things about Nika, which can show how lacking he is in knowledge not just as a villain either.


    And in regards to the topic of class mobility for minorities, while people of a certain background inherent more money and the like because of supposedly being “born great,” leaving a disproportionate structure, would that then mean to say that there’s a structure waiting that just waiting to be torn down, going back to Luffy burning down the government flag, Dragon going against the government in the name of freedom, and Im being responsible for the class and wealth imbalance with him being the king of the world and responsible for any atrocities that he plays a role in? Because it’s understood that any institution can have the guilty no matter how clean it looks on the outside, right? That’s definitely a reason the sun would be there for.

  3. #43
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    This is how you organically upgrade a Straw Hat through multiple arcs.

    Nami stole the weapon of a Yonkou, powers it through the skills she trained two years for and finally befriended this living tool not through threats of death, but her own personality.

    No one but Nami could have done that, only her unique set of skills made it possible (thievery, weather knowledge & her seductive techniques).

    Can you see how carefully Oda handled it? How he made sure that it doesn't look like Nami is just getting carried by her upgrade? She grew into it, and Oda wasted a ton of seemingly unnecessary panels to hammer that home. I wish her commander fight would have been done differently, but at least I have no issues with how she got her endgame upgrade.

    Those of you who read the spoiler section might remember my lengthy rants about how Sanji's Raid Suit is treated in the complete opposite fashion - it's simply slapped on his character without much love and effort, with the minimum amount of creativity involved. The Raid Suit makes Sanji faster and fixes his most severe weak spot (defense), and it grants him a skill that used to be the unique selling point of another crewmember (invisibility) - but in his own words: "I don't need it because I have my own fighting style". The suit doesn't organically build on what Sanji worked hard for (see Nami) -it's the opposite: the Suit makes his TS efforts partially obsolete.
    Being the only reliable flyer of the crew thanks to the timeskip training? Wasted effort, the Raid Suit allows flight baseline.
    Being one of the fastest Straw Hats thanks to those prized legs he forged in hell? Wasted effort, the Raid Suit comes with accelerators, an in-built Soru.

    And don't get me wrong, this isn't about whether one likes the Raid Suit upgrade or whether it thematically fits Sanji - I'm strictly talking about how this upgrade is drastically different when it comes to portrayal. Sanji is not growing into the Suit the same way Nami grew into Zeus or Zoro into Enma - it's just *there*, mocking his own timeskip efforts.

    At least that's what I thought up until recently. Specifically until Sanji screamed for Robin's help, when he lured her into a deathtrap because he had full trust in her. I know people didn't seem to like that, but I thought it was an amazing moment and I honestly regret that I experienced it through spoilers. So I was thinking, what if this is similiar? What if Sanji's growth *is* throwing his own style and dignity over board? Admitting that he hit a ceiling and that he needs to rely on technology to keep up? Technology that allows him what he did before - just better and without effort?

    I still believe that the destruction of the Raid Suit is a real possiblity, and that Sanji will defeat Queen in base mode (the strongest spear is guts!), but at this point I could see it being here to stay. Because, and that brings me back to the current chapter - Jinbe now had the "Martial Arts" battle of the arc. Under normal circumstances, ignoring power levels, Who's Who would be Sanji's opponent no question.

    Sanji vs. Fishman Karate Dude
    Sanji vs. Okama Kenpo Dude
    Sanji vs. Tekkai Kenpo Dude
    Sanji vs. Mad Monk Fishdude
    Sanji vs. Vice Admiral CoA Dude
    Sanji vs. Lucci on crack Dude

    ...you get the idea.

    So does this mean Jinbe took the "Martial Arts" theme fights from Sanji, who in turn is now moving to technology themed fights? Because if he does then Sanji vs. Burgess is suddenly really unlikely, despite the numerous things they have in common...

    Either way, the next couple chapters will be interesting. Jinbe being allowed one full chapter worth of combat means Sanji will have at least that, and I'm super looking forward to it. I'm not getting my hopes up for Robin yet, but... well maybe a little.
    Last edited by Jabra; July 4th, 2021 at 02:54 PM.



  4. #44

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    This is how you organically upgrade a Straw Hat through multiple arcs.

    Nami stole the weapon of a Yonkou, powers it through the skills she trained two years for and finally befriended this living tool not through threats of death, but her own personality.

    No one but Nami could have done that, only her unique set of skills made it possible (thievery, weather knowledge & her seductive techniques).

    Can you see how carefully Oda handled it? How he made sure that it doesn't look like Nami is just getting carried by her upgrade? She grew into it, and Oda wasted a ton of seemingly unnecessary panels to hammer that home. I wish her commander fight would have been done differently, but at least I have no issues with how she got her endgame upgrade.

    Those of you who read the spoiler section might remember my lengthy rants about how Sanji's Raid Suit is treated in the complete opposite fashion - it's simply slapped on his character without much love and effort, with the minimum amount of creativity involved. The Raid Suit makes Sanji faster and fixes his most severe weak spot (defense), and it grants him a skill that used to be the unique selling point of another crewmember (invisibility) - but in his own words: "I don't need it because I have my own fighting style". The suit doesn't organically build on what Sanji worked hard for (see Nami) -it's the opposite: the Suit makes his TS efforts partially obsolete.
    Being the only reliable flyer of the crew thanks to the timeskip training? Wasted effort, the Raid Suit allows flight baseline.
    Being one of the fastest Straw Hats thanks to those prized legs he forged in hell? Wasted effort, the Raid Suit comes with accelerators, an in-built Soru.

    And don't get me wrong, this isn't about whether one likes the Raid Suit upgrade or whether it thematically fits Sanji - I'm strictly talking about how this upgrade is drastically different when it comes to portrayal. Sanji is not growing into the Suit the same way Nami grew into Zeus or Zoro into Enma - it's just *there*, mocking his own timeskip efforts.

    At least that's what I thought up until recently. Specifically until Sanji screamed for Robin's help, when he lured her into a deathtrap because he had full trust in her. I know people didn't seem to like that, but I thought it was an amazing moment and I honestly regret that I experienced it through spoilers. So I was thinking, what if this is similiar? What if Sanji's growth *is* throwing his own style and dignity over board? Admitting that he hit a ceiling and that he needs to rely on technology to keep up? Technology that allows him what he did before - just better and without effort?

    I still believe that the destruction of the Raid Suit is a real possiblity, and that Sanji will defeat Queen in base mode (the strongest spear is guts!), but at this point I could see it being here to stay. Because, and that brings me back to the current chapter - Jinbe now had the "Martial Arts" battle of the arc. Under normal circumstances, ignoring power levels, Who's Who would be Sanji's opponent no question.

    Sanji vs. Fishman Karate Dude
    Sanji vs. Okama Kenpo Dude
    Sanji vs. Tekkai Kenpo Dude
    Sanji vs. Mad Monk Fishdude
    Sanji vs. Vice Admiral CoA Dude
    Sanji vs. Lucci on crack Dude

    ...you get the idea.

    So does this mean Jinbe took the "Martial Arts" theme fights from Sanji, who in turn is now moving to technology themed fights? Because if he does then Sanji vs. Burgess is suddenly really unlikely, despite the numerous things they have in common...

    Either way, the next couple chapters will be interesting. Jinbe being allowed one full chapter worth of combat means Sanji will have at least that, and I'm super looking forward to it. I'm not getting my hope for for Robin yet, but... well maybe a little.
    I don't see the Raid Suit as a direct upgrade. It comes off more figurative and metaphorical. Sanji has denied the Vinsmoke name and family, just like he denied his Maiden heart. I see accepting the Raid Suit, the same as him coming to accept his Maiden nature. We've already seen him use the suit multiple times. It comes off too obvious that it will not be what gets him the win against Queen. He most likely will use the Suit again, then when it shows to be not enough for Queen, he may pull out his Maiden like utilities.

    I believe Sanji's CoC will show for the 1st time as well once he resorts to his Maiden nature. He has called on Robin to show he can rely on friends and he used the suit he detest to keep his identity a secret while attempting to stop Pagey. All that to make take the largest step.

    Spoiler:




  5. #45

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    So does this mean there could be multiple sun gods that go by different names?


  6. #46

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    Currently doing a campaign to thank everyone. Thanks for having me in Jump and thanks for reading the manga
    Why would he say this all of a sudden?


  7. #47

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by All Fiction View Post
    Why would he say this all of a sudden?
    Probably speaking about that 50-character spread he promised to make.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Seems to me that who’s who was talking about ivanko. Iva’s people were the ones disappearing guards and prisoners.

  9. #49
    Discovered Stowaway astagadragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Awesome chapter. Very focused on 1 scene. Jinbe is awesome, his moveset is quite versatile with karate punch, jujitsu and even water manipulation. Now no one can say that his fighting style is boring! Which is as far as I remember, is one of his main objection as crewmate back then.

    Also apparently everything in Japan is on break for 2 weeks to celebrate Olympics, despite the pandemic. Which is fine, very optimistic and all... also more time for Oda to rest his weary bones.
    "The rain has ceased, and we have been graced by another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it." - Elidibus

  10. #50

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    I need to see Who's Who bend his finger in the anime.

    Most likely irrelevant, but is this supposed to be a bandaged up Beast Pirate or something.

    https://i.imgur.com/hpWrTEs.jpg?1
    I saw that guy too.
    Maybe Hawkin's or Kid's crew? Those guys are weird.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post

    Also, what a way to punch America right in the gut, Oda. A chapter-ending line like that fits America's current problems (and a lot of similar race problems in the world, actually) too well. And on the 4th even.
    Explain this pls because I really don’t get it.

  12. #52
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Holy shit, things are starting to come together for the, Luffy inheriting aces will with fire and becoming a sun god, theory.

    If luffy is joy boy and joy boy is Nika, then I don't think those flames are incidental. The secret wano letter and luffy blinking as a flame ninja are foreshadowing to me.
    Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
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  13. #53

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Probably speaking about that 50-character spread he promised to make.
    Oh, yeah. Makes sense.


  14. #54
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    You know, with Ulti & Page One defeated, Who's Who most likely defeated, and Drake defecting, I really wish Oda had revealed the Tobi Roppo bounties in Chapter 998.
    Oda will probably reveal them in an SBS down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    This was a tasty chapter. It's going to be a long couple of months with all of the pending breaks. I'm always all for Oda's health, but it is frustrating when the regular breaks coincide with the magazine holiday breaks the way they are about to. I hope all of these are leading to better health for all of the mangaka, since it seems like most of the major Jump series are featuring these breaks.
    After having lost Kentaro Miura, I am all for Oda having as many breaks as he needs if it means keeping his health good. Maybe losing Miura has given more magazines the push to let their authors have more breaks in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    I still believe that the destruction of the Raid Suit is a real possiblity, and that Sanji will defeat Queen in base mode (the strongest spear is guts!), but at this point I could see it being here to stay. Because, and that brings me back to the current chapter - Jinbe now had the "Martial Arts" battle of the arc. Under normal circumstances, ignoring power levels, Who's Who would be Sanji's opponent no question.
    Being one of the Monster Trio Sanji also gets to fight what is usually one of the top fighters. Same way that Zoro usually gets to fight the second-strongest fighter in a group while Luffy gets the leader. If we apply that to the Beast Pirates, then that means it's Luffy vs. Kaido, Zoro vs. King, and Sanji vs. Queen.

    Quote Originally Posted by tenchu View Post
    Explain this pls because I really don’t get it.
    Well, to try and summarize (and there's a lot more than just this):

    Hidden:
    America, and lots of places in the world, are currently in an environment of facing the dark parts of our country's history, especially where race or slavery is involved. We can't think of our history as nothing but the good parts, to truly learn and face our history we have to learn about and accept the times when we've done horrible things. But there are racists and generally ignorant people (similar to Who's-Who) who don't know about these things, and don't want to. Because the more your learn, the more you uncover, including things you could never believe we would do. These are the same people who like to run their mouths off about "America's great history", which in reality is a lot darker than they'd like to admit.

    And here we have Who's-Who, a former government soldier, saying things to Jinbei like "And what is Fish-Man history but the history of slavery?". That's like someone now saying "Blacks have only been slaves!", which ignores the deep history Blacks and minorities have in this country that goes beyond just being slaves. Which is similar to how the Fish-men and the Fishman Kingdom have a long and proud history that goes way beyond their time as slaves to humans. Then Who's-Who asks about Nika, which is this really cool-sounding guy who was a icon of hope to slaves, in a really patronizing way to Jinbei. But as Jinbei warns him, "If you're going to run your mouth about history, be ready for what you're stepping into first!". It's kinda like if an ignorant white guy asked a black guy to teach him about MLK or the Tuskegee Airmen or Black Soul music. Sure, he'll teach you,, but you have to be ready to face a lot of awful things that black people have endured in our past and that are connected to these cool things. Because that's our history, whether you like it or not.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Oda will probably reveal them in an SBS down the road.
    Most likely we will get them in the next VIvre Card batch.
    But when Chapter 998 was released, I felt it was a missing opportunity. Bounties always result in hype. We were already revealing the fruits, why not bounties and epithets to go with them?
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  16. #56
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Most likely we will get them in the next VIvre Card batch.
    But when Chapter 998 was released, I felt it was a missing opportunity. Bounties always result in hype. We were already revealing the fruits, why not bounties and epithets to go with them?
    I thought Oda was holding them back for the extra shock effect when the war is over. Imagine the typical villain beat-down mugshots lined up on one page, with ridiculously inflated bounties next to them.
    Announcing the bounties early makes us wonder how they could possibly beat such opponents, while announcing them last minute really hammers home that wow, these guys had insane bounties and the crew beat them anyway!

    Of course, in Nami's case it doesn't matter how high Ulti's bounty is because she didn't really beat her.



  17. #57

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    So does this mean there could be multiple sun gods that go by different names?

    https://i.ibb.co/25VcYPj/42474436-40...977-E89138.jpg
    It's been a decade and Yonka 2 still cracks me up.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by fana View Post
    Is that 2 breaks in the summer a new thing for WSJ ? From my experience it was always 1 for GW, 1 for the summer and 2 in winter.

    Anyway, re-reading this chapter, all I have to say is that I hope Jinbe gets a small flashback next week to show how he learned about Nika (and if we could finally get a look at the Fishman Dojo that would be great).
    That's due to the Olympics, I think.

    There was a break scheduled for it last year too but then covid happened.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Dont think the fight is over, didnt seem like an ending to me
    Well who’s who has a mask on so maybe he has something underneath that will give him a power up, cause Jinbei’s attack seemed to hit squarely in the middle of his mask, so he maybe knocked it off and that will be the start of part 2of the battle

  19. #59

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    So does this mean there could be multiple sun gods that go by different names?

    https://i.ibb.co/25VcYPj/42474436-40...977-E89138.jpg
    That probably only means that the story of Sun God Nika is well known in Gyojin Island.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Chapter 1,018: Jinbe Vs. Who's-Who

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Most likely we will get them in the next VIvre Card batch.
    But when Chapter 998 was released, I felt it was a missing opportunity. Bounties always result in hype. We were already revealing the fruits, why not bounties and epithets to go with them?
    I don't think Oda has ever used bounties to hype villain teams, only specific individual villains.

    -All the East Blue villains had their bounties reported at the very end of the saga, after Luffy had beaten them all. And the secondary ones were only revealed in vivre cards.

    -Baroque Works bounties savefor Croc were revealed two decades later on Vivre Cards.

    -Skypiea had no bounties. Water 7 was government agents. Thriller Bark, nada save for Moria.

    -New Fishman Pirates had no bounties. Dressrosa bounties were Vivre Card deals, save for Doflamingo.

    Frankly, it's only Luffy who seems to face people with bounty reveals.

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