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Thread: Chapter 1,017: The Order

  1. #61

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zek View Post
    I don’t think the gum-gum fruit is meant to be any more special than any other devil fruit, just that the WG got a hold of it and wanted to bring it back and give it to some deserving officer. Could have just as easily ended up being given to Smoker or an admiral. The fewer devil fruits out there for pirates to get, the more advantage the WG has.
    That makes sense until you consider why the Red Hair Pirates would steal the fruit to begin with, and why the government would imprison Who's Who for losing it. "Because they are pirates and its a devil fruit" doesn't sound like very convincing reasons.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorPhil View Post
    I religiously held on to the 5 act structure, raid failing thing too. But even I don't have much faith anymore seeing by how fast Luffy is getting back up and how Ulti got up from BM's ultimate attack obliterating her guts to give Nami her win. To me it seems to point in the direction of everyone getting their wins now so we can wrap things up. Which is real sad because I want that darkest hour real bad. It's still possible Oda will land that homerun and ascend to Goda once more, but it's very unlikely.
    Explain what is a dark hour, what is it that you want?.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    In the 5 acts theory, the 3d one is supposed to end with a tragedy for the hero side.
    But all the "tragedies" we could have until now have been bypassed the next chapter. We are clearly in a moment where Kaidou's crew henchmans will lose their fight.

    The only tension that will be kept is how the island will not crash on the flower capital

  4. #64

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Welp, there weren't many things to like in this chapter. :/

    Queen's hybrid form is one of them fortunately and so are the Gifters, Oda keeps delivering on the loony design front.

    As for the rest...Durrr, it's one thing after the other.
    - Tama's power is absolutely horrible, a valid but far too easy and detestable way of reversing the odds. It's not a detail to overlook in the grand scheme of things either ; it's one of these fundamental choices that will durably weaken the arc for me, much like the cake fully restoring Big Mom up at the end of Whole Cake Island.
    - Zoro's insta-heal pill is barely any better. Worse, there's only one dose of these ? Ass-pull, convenient, cheap, lazy writing. Call it however you want, I'm not liking it one bit... Here I was thinking Chopper, or even Marco, would have at least have a hand in curing Zoro. This much I could have accepted. But please, no more Senzu Beans!!!
    - Gomu-Gomu no Coincidence is the icing on the cake. If it ends being just that, a sheer coincidence that made Who's Who hate Luffy, alright. But with the turn things are taking, I'm bracing for the worst option. Watch it be eventually revealed as Joy Boy / Gold Roger's own Devil Fruit and/or something Shanks willingly fed to Luffy because Destiny...

  5. #65

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    This isn't an horrible chapter per se, but in some ways it feels like an "everything wrong with current One Piece in 17 pages or less".

    The pacing was terrible. What was the point of the first page? Tama fainting seems an unexpected roadblock but next thing you know she's back on her feet and gives the order no problem.
    Where did Sanji go inbetween 1016 and 1017? AFK just long enough to let Queen do his things and then blindiside him for the second time in a row?

    Chopper's charachter is now way beyond any possible recovery. Being cute isn't a feature anymore, it's the whole point of his existence. His prolonged transformation had no effect on the progression of the story and neither did the dreaded side effects: it's just a new plushie toy that even comes with its official branding name. He's there for some miracuolous healing happening, but he's not the one performing it and he nonchalantly states that, despite living and working on emergency healing with the minks for a week, he never heard of it before.

    Also, miracuolous healing. Really?
    "oh, but it comes off twicve the pain afterwards, you know?"
    And i'm supposed to be impressed? you're giving it to fuckin' Zoro.

    It finally ends with the 27th hint that nothing about Luffy is really unique of him.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    - Tama's power is absolutely horrible, a valid but far too easy and detestable way of reversing the odds. It's not a detail to overlook in the grand scheme of things either ; it's one of these fundamental choices that will durably weaken the arc for me, much like the cake fully restoring Big Mom up at the end of Whole Cake Island.
    Oda made them beast pirates because he wanted to do Momotaro.

    He didn't do Momotaro because he had beast pirates.

    Similarly, Big Mom's hunger cravings were built around Sanji being able to cook.

    Those are major story elements that were designed around hero showcase, not the other way around. It's not plot convenience, its why that plot is there in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    Also, miracuolous healing. Really?
    "oh, but it comes off twicve the pain afterwards, you know?"
    And i'm supposed to be impressed? you're giving it to fuckin' Zoro.

    Zoro's instant heal IS bad but if he's in super bad shape when its all done like he was post Thriller Bark it'll maybe be acceptable. Luffy got an instant heal then at the cost of Zoro being in bad shape and no one complained then because it was badass in how it was handled... people even called it one of his coolest moments.

    Magic devil fruit or magic medicine, what's the difference if it still leaves Zoro a bloody crippled mess when it's all said and done?.

    But with the turn things are taking, I'm bracing for the worst option. Watch it be eventually revealed as Joy Boy / Gold Roger's own Devil Fruit and/or something Shanks willingly fed to Luffy because Destiny...
    It finally ends with the 27th hint that nothing about Luffy is really unique of him.
    Don't get pre-emptively angry. If it goes down that route, yeah its iffy. But if it doesn't, you're getting upset over literally nothing.

    We made fun and joked about it in the spoiler thread, but don't waste energy getting upset before it even happens.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    Chopper's charachter is now way beyond any possible recovery. Being cute isn't a feature anymore, it's the whole point of his existence. His prolonged transformation had no effect on the progression of the story and neither did the dreaded side effects: it's just a new plushie toy that even comes with its official branding name. He's there for some miracuolous healing happening, but he's not the one performing it and he nonchalantly states that, despite living and working on emergency healing with the minks for a week, he never heard of it before.
    Does it also bother you that Luffy shrinks when he uses gear 3? That's been a side effect for over a decade, shown again as recently as the Kaidou fight.

    Chopper has now experimemnted with drugs to extend his monster point... and come to the conclusion that alone is not enough. So isn't it possible he'll experiment some more to try and get some other result next time? He's seen Sulong transformations now, that should be an inspiration point.
    Last edited by Robby; June 28th, 2021 at 01:32 AM.
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  7. #67

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Again, I really don't get all the complaints about Tama and her fruit. It is hardly the first time that we get a super convenient Devil Fruit. A major part of OP is about weird,whacky and convenient Devil Fruits. And here the convenience of the DF is only partly because of the DF,and partly because of the enemy utilising a flawed and experimental DF,which literally contains a mixture of random animal DNA as a main component. The Smiles being imperfect has been well established at this point,from the horrible side effects of only being able to smile, to the Gifters having broken and literally assbackwards transformations. Those flaws and imperfections being taken advantage of by a DF based on a Japanese folktake, in a land based on Japan, makes perfect sense to me.

    Personally speaking, Sugar's DF is still the most broken and convenient fruit I can think of. They should probably have given Monet(her sister) the ability to erase people from other's memories, instead of bundling it all in 1 fruit that does seemingly 2 different things
    Last edited by sggupta; June 28th, 2021 at 01:49 AM.
    that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post

    Zoro's instant heal IS bad but if he's in super bad shape when its all done like he was post Thriller Bark it'll maybe be acceptable. Luffy got an instant heal then at the cost of Zoro being in bad shape and no one complained then because it was badass in how it was handled... people even called it one of his coolest moments.

    Magic devil fruit or magic medicine, what's the difference if it still leaves Zoro a bloody crippled mess when it's all said and done?.
    I get what you're saying, bu even back then it wasn't much about the handicap as it was about the sacrifice for luffy. He didn't miss out on much later and wouldn't have made much difference against kizaru and the pacifista even if he was 100%. let's wait and see what happens next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Don't get pre-emptively angry. If it goes down that route, yeah its iffy. But if it doesn't, you're getting upset over literally nothing.

    We made fun and joked about it in the spoiler thread, but don't waste energy getting upset before it even happens.
    I downplayed it purposely here cause i think everything could have been said about this was said int he spoiler discussion, as for my premise it really feels right now as a taste of the recent stacking of special traits on Luffy.

    By the way, one of my absolute favourite parts of OP was the Duval face reveal. It was in itsef funny and it also completely subverted much of the fandom's expections in the best way possible, since back then many were fixated on him being Gin or Morgan or some other past villains out for vengeance and most immediately assuming he was after Luffy.
    This had the potential to be a similar situation, but seeing how it played out, i'm not holding up much hope.
    In the short term it just serves as a pretty mediocre reason for WsW and Jimbbe to clash, but sooner than later i'm expecting the "dramatic" reveal. Hope i'm wrong though .

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post

    Does it also bother you that Luffy shrinks when he uses gear 3? That's been a side effect for over a decade, shown again as recently as the Kaidou fight.

    Chopper has now experimemnted with drugs to extend his monster point... and come to the conclusion that alone is not enough. So isn't it possible he'll experiment some more to try and get some other result next time? He's seen Sulong transformations now, that should be an inspiration point.
    No it doesn't, because when it first showed up it was a silly side effect of a powerful and effective tecnique, not of a waste of pages.
    Chopper accomplished a whole lot of nothing out of his upgraded rumble balls, which i remember being a very big deal pre-timeskip by the way. He also accomplished nothing in healing the crew.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  9. #69

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Queen continues to be amazing, Jinbe is a boss and I’m digging Who’s Who a lot. Too early to say anything about Luffy’s fruit, Occam’s razor for now. Zoro’s comeback is so cheap and will have zero actual consequence but his fight with King will be super hype so I’ll end up not giving a shit when it’s all said and done. The thing I need the most from Oda right now is REAL tension, the stakes don’t seem high given how grandiose this stage is. I still have hope, Oda is a master of surprises so fingers crossed!

  10. #70

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    I thought this was a really eventful chapter, right when 1016 got me thinking the pace would slow again. The climax of this battle is close, and Oda seems to be stepping on the gas with battle updates and hybrid reveals.

    Tama's order
    Seeing Tama pass out at the start of the chapter had me worried, but I think it was necessary to justify the cutaway of the Gifters making the one on one fights hard for the good guys. I do kinda wish that information had been spread out a little better over previous chapters instead of phoned in at the last minute, but it still barely manages to emphasise the Gifter flip as a necessary step toward the ultimate victory. Interestingly, all the Gifters we see go right to fodder control rather than lashing out at the officers or influencing the one on ones in the other direction. Is it because the numbers game still strongly favours the Beasts Pirates, or did they pick up a bit of respect for a fair fight now that they're on our side?

    Oh, and we see Shinobu and Momo during this sequence. Where'd they land? Looks like a wooden floor or deck of some kind in the background.

    On the Performance Floor
    Queen's hybrid form is peak Oda design. There's so much going on with it in the best possible way. The grabby hand coming out of the ponytail is an inspired decision, and it had better actually be used in the fight.

    Oda's pushing the connection between Queen and Judge again, but I'm not sure what he means to actually do with it. Presumably MADS is the same unit Judge was in with Vegapunk, which should have big reveal potential, but I don't see Vegapunk being a Wano thing. I expect to be teased and nothing more.

    Mini-Chopper is not the side effect I was hoping for, but I'm sure it'll make for a few really profitable plushies. Zoro is very in character right now, acting like he needs the drug even though the enemies around him are being pretty comfortably handled. We all know he'll have to fight King eventually, but Zoro wants to be contributing to the battle as much as possible, even if its just helping with the fodder. The setup does feel a little like it's ham-fistedly trying to set up a new "nothing happened" moment, but I'm reserving judgement on the repetition until I see how Oda chooses to play the new version.

    Jinbe and Who's Who
    I'm really happy we're spending some time showing Jinbe's battle. He's got some catching up to do in terms of screentime, relative to the rest of the crew. The Fishman Karate shockwaves being able to deflect flying slash type attacks is a cool, logical interaction. These are things we like to know.

    I would have bet on the Impel Down escapee angle (and I was kinda right; I don't think Jinbe was a Warlord until after Luffy ate the fruit, so the prison has to be where they saw each other), but I really like Who's Who being a former Cipher Pol agent. Bringing the Six Powers back on a major opponent is fun continuity and should make for good action in the rest of this fight. The original Cipher Pol fights were some of the series' best action to date, to my mind, so more of this is always welcome. I liked seeing the actual manga draw the connection between the Six Powers and Haki. Many of us had speculated it for a while, and the Vivre Cards for the CP9 members all but made it clear, but this feels like the final nail in the coffin for the naysayers.

    Who's Who has a pretty fun hybrid look as well, but he's definitely overshadowed by the ridiculousness of Queen.

    Going against the grain, I think the Gun Gun reveal is exciting and I hope we get some more follow-up on it. I don't think it's actually going to be anything world-shaking, but given how mysterious Shanks is, any info we get about what he is and has been up to is good info.

    The events of the Reverie raised some questions about Shanks's alligences, but from this we can be fairly sure that if he is working with the government in any way, it's a more recent development. We can say with some confidence that he wasn't working with the Five Elders back when he inspired Luffy and gave him the hat, given that it was apparently taken from an "enemy ship." Which may or may not soothe your "Shanks groomed luffy to be the chosen one" conspiracy theories. Does Who's Who's treatment by the government imply a higher importance to the fruit? Well a squad was also sent to arrest CP9 after their big failure at Enies Lobby, so it's reasonable to think that's just what happens when you fail the government. You can't just let black ops guys like that walk with all the secrets they know, so if you get kicked out of Cipher Pol you get arrested. I'm still a big fan of the theory that the Gum Gum and Dark Dark Fruits are easily mistaken for each other and both Cipher Pol and Shanks went after the wrong fruit after hearing a report of it being in East Blue.

    But we'll see. There's a lot of directions Oda could take something like this and we're not operating on a ton of info. I've got a lot of thoughts about the negative ways some people have reacted to this development despite how little we know about it, but I think I'll make them a separate post for that to keep this one from getting too overwhelmingly long.

    Apart from a slightly soft 1016, the last few chapters have been really, really strong. Oda's doing really well, and I hope he can keep this kind of pace up to the end of the battle. Oh, and looking ahead, if the break schedule goes the way it usually does and I haven't forgotten any Japanese public holidays, we could be getting chapter 2020 exactly on the series' 24th anniversary. Sounds like a perfect place for that long-awaited WT100 colour spread!

  11. #71
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    The instant heal medicine bothers me a lot less in the official translation, seems Oda was at least smart enough to dodge a Senzu-Bean style scenario.

    It's played like a one-time deal since Chopper can not apply it on his own, so it's not like we can expect further use down the road (of course it's possible, but for now we're not supposed to count on its continued existence - like Senzu Beans).

    The question is what Zoro is going to do at full power for a very short time. Is he really going to casually one-shot King in that state? Is this is how he's going to leave the arc? Scarring a Yonkou, fodderizing his right hand man? If he pulls that off them I'm not expecting Blackbeard matchups anymore, we'll head straight to the world war with Admirals as commander battles. At least I wouldn't feel any tension with anything below that.

    Alternatively, is he going to steal / downplay Sanji's fight with Queen? I swear, Zoro's entire existence makes me paranoid at this point. I wish he would just... go away, like Big Mom (and I love Big Mom).
    Last edited by Jabra; June 28th, 2021 at 03:16 AM.


  12. #72

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    The question is what Zoro is going to do at full power for a very short time. Is he really going to casually one-shot King in that state?
    I know it's been a while, but fighting enemies while hobbled is kind of Zoro's THING. He was weakened from hunger back with axe hand, self wounded with Buggy's crew, crippled from Mihawk against Hachi, living with Luffy's pain on Sabondy, etc.

    He hasn't really been pushed since the timeskip but its an old situation for him.

    I don't expect him to one-shot King but get a normal "fighting while wounded" experience from him, the implication being if he were at full health he'd do it faster... but not overwhelmingly so.

    We're at the point in teh story where most of the crew is so overpowered that they HAVE to be split up or wounded for there to be a challege... an arc where they're all actually together in top form is... hard to stop them.
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    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  13. #73
    Discovered Stowaway ea77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    I thought this was a really eventful chapter, right when 1016 got me thinking the pace would slow again. The climax of this battle is close, and Oda seems to be stepping on the gas with battle updates and hybrid reveals.

    Tama's order
    Seeing Tama pass out at the start of the chapter had me worried, but I think it was necessary to justify the cutaway of the Gifters making the one on one fights hard for the good guys. I do kinda wish that information had been spread out a little better over previous chapters instead of phoned in at the last minute, but it still barely manages to emphasise the Gifter flip as a necessary step toward the ultimate victory. Interestingly, all the Gifters we see go right to fodder control rather than lashing out at the officers or influencing the one on ones in the other direction. Is it because the numbers game still strongly favours the Beasts Pirates, or did they pick up a bit of respect for a fair fight now that they're on our side?

    Oh, and we see Shinobu and Momo during this sequence. Where'd they land? Looks like a wooden floor or deck of some kind in the background.

    On the Performance Floor
    Queen's hybrid form is peak Oda design. There's so much going on with it in the best possible way. The grabby hand coming out of the ponytail is an inspired decision, and it had better actually be used in the fight.

    Oda's pushing the connection between Queen and Judge again, but I'm not sure what he means to actually do with it. Presumably MADS is the same unit Judge was in with Vegapunk, which should have big reveal potential, but I don't see Vegapunk being a Wano thing. I expect to be teased and nothing more.

    Mini-Chopper is not the side effect I was hoping for, but I'm sure it'll make for a few really profitable plushies. Zoro is very in character right now, acting like he needs the drug even though the enemies around him are being pretty comfortably handled. We all know he'll have to fight King eventually, but Zoro wants to be contributing to the battle as much as possible, even if its just helping with the fodder. The setup does feel a little like it's ham-fistedly trying to set up a new "nothing happened" moment, but I'm reserving judgement on the repetition until I see how Oda chooses to play the new version.

    Jinbe and Who's Who
    I'm really happy we're spending some time showing Jinbe's battle. He's got some catching up to do in terms of screentime, relative to the rest of the crew. The Fishman Karate shockwaves being able to deflect flying slash type attacks is a cool, logical interaction. These are things we like to know.

    I would have bet on the Impel Down escapee angle (and I was kinda right; I don't think Jinbe was a Warlord until after Luffy ate the fruit, so the prison has to be where they saw each other), but I really like Who's Who being a former Cipher Pol agent. Bringing the Six Powers back on a major opponent is fun continuity and should make for good action in the rest of this fight. The original Cipher Pol fights were some of the series' best action to date, to my mind, so more of this is always welcome. I liked seeing the actual manga draw the connection between the Six Powers and Haki. Many of us had speculated it for a while, and the Vivre Cards for the CP9 members all but made it clear, but this feels like the final nail in the coffin for the naysayers.

    Who's Who has a pretty fun hybrid look as well, but he's definitely overshadowed by the ridiculousness of Queen.

    Going against the grain, I think the Gun Gun reveal is exciting and I hope we get some more follow-up on it. I don't think it's actually going to be anything world-shaking, but given how mysterious Shanks is, any info we get about what he is and has been up to is good info.

    The events of the Reverie raised some questions about Shanks's alligences, but from this we can be fairly sure that if he is working with the government in any way, it's a more recent development. We can say with some confidence that he wasn't working with the Five Elders back when he inspired Luffy and gave him the hat, given that it was apparently taken from an "enemy ship." Which may or may not soothe your "Shanks groomed luffy to be the chosen one" conspiracy theories. Does Who's Who's treatment by the government imply a higher importance to the fruit? Well a squad was also sent to arrest CP9 after their big failure at Enies Lobby, so it's reasonable to think that's just what happens when you fail the government. You can't just let black ops guys like that walk with all the secrets they know, so if you get kicked out of Cipher Pol you get arrested. I'm still a big fan of the theory that the Gum Gum and Dark Dark Fruits are easily mistaken for each other and both Cipher Pol and Shanks went after the wrong fruit after hearing a report of it being in East Blue.

    But we'll see. There's a lot of directions Oda could take something like this and we're not operating on a ton of info. I've got a lot of thoughts about the negative ways some people have reacted to this development despite how little we know about it, but I think I'll make them a separate post for that to keep this one from getting too overwhelmingly long.

    Apart from a slightly soft 1016, the last few chapters have been really, really strong. Oda's doing really well, and I hope he can keep this kind of pace up to the end of the battle. Oh, and looking ahead, if the break schedule goes the way it usually does and I haven't forgotten any Japanese public holidays, we could be getting chapter 2020 exactly on the series' 24th anniversary. Sounds like a perfect place for that long-awaited WT100 colour spread!
    Want to know how the fans interpreted it?

    Back on the fourth floor, thanks to Tama, Jinbe can finally fight Who's-Who one-on-one. Who's-Who uses a
    Hagan attack but Jinbe uses Karakusagawara Seiken to retaliate, only for Who's-Who to back up with Soru and counter with a Rankyaku that Jinbe blocks. Who's-Who uses Tekkai to protect himself from another attack as Jinbe notes that what Who's-Who is using is the Rokushiki abilities possessed by government officials.


    https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Chapter_1017

    It seems, short of Oda in the manga having Who's Who say, "Yes, Roksuhiki is based on Haki. Here's how it works...", no implication or Vivre Card or Databook or Anime will be enough.
    #Vergoshotfirst #Doflaisapunk

  14. #74

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Oda made them beast pirates because he wanted to do Momotaro.

    He didn't do Momotaro because he had beast pirates.

    Similarly, Big Mom's hunger cravings were built around Sanji being able to cook.
    Oh, I do get the Momotaro reference and indeed, it's been clear for a long time that Oda is building Wano around it. It is a storytelling choice Oda made that contributes to shape the entire Wano arc ; I just don't like the Tama part.
    I might have been okay if her powers were used to subdue a couple key characters here and there, but making turncoats of this many Beast Pirates at once is too much for my taste and not the kind of storytelling I enjoy these days. Just because it references a classical folk tale doesn'l make it automatically likeable unfortunately.

    On Big Mom's hunger cravings, I do not mean to reopen a vast debate. To be clear, the hunger cravings don't disturb me that much in retrospect and I enjoyed the cake part. What I disliked in WCI is how the sole outcome of Sanji's cooking effort was to pull back into the equation a fully-restored Big Mom while the Sun Pirates and Vinsmokes were left to die because of that (yes, probably no-one died but they still had to sacrifice a lot). Sanji's effort amounted to nothing when it could have at least bought some time for the allies. Post-meal bliss, Big Mom made dizzy by the taste overload...There could have been so many ways to make it look better and it still frustrates me to this day.

    Either way, what these 2 episodes have in common is that that they're not something to shrug off like a poorly-framed panel. They are deliberate narrative choices that I don't agree with and it weakens these arcs for me. It's frustrating but it is what it is, there just are some aspects of One Piece I don't enjoy.


    Re: Gum Gum: I'm not going to get all broody because of that yet. I just hope the Gum-Gum fruit stays what it has always been - a weird funny Devil Fruit - and that it doesn't become another piece in the puzzle of destiny.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Somehow i find senzu beans less annoying because at least they go full bullshit and don't bother with the half assed oh these come with graaaave danger excuses

  16. #76

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    hi yall,

    completely off topic:

    Is there a theory thread made about what BIG MOM' s crew members are (currently)up to in WANO?

    I know there were a lot of theories of blackbeard invading whole cake island(for the ponoglyph) now that big mom is busy fighting in wano with half her crew...

    but isnt it equally possible that big mom's crew are trying to get kaido' s ponoglyph while kaido and his commanders + tobi roppo are busy fighting the strawhat alliance?

    if big moms crew ever since coming to wano hardly participates in the action(besides Perospero), then there must be more to it.

    the way i see it is that if this(big mom crew being idle/passive) continues and big moms crew ends up doing nothing significant in wano, then that would take some points away from ODA' s writing skills IMO.

    on youtube no one speculates about this it seems, what do yall think. is it relevant to theorize about or not?

    peace!

  17. #77

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I highly doubt this will happen. Just don't see Oda throwing in Chopper discovering the key to devil fruit mimicry and the lineage factor then reverse engineering it.
    Ok


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Not to mention once the smile users stop being that they will have free again and exactly what's stopping them from trashing Wano/rejoining Kaido? Especially after they all just had their free will suppressed and were controlled by a small child.
    Not saying he‘s going to do it during the raid. After Kaido is defeated…
    I doubt Chopper will leave Wano while it’s citizens suffer from the side effects of the fruits, while he’s at it why not cure everyone who wants to be cured. I doubt any of the grifters would want to remain in their state after Kaido is defeated.
    After that they can join the grand fleet to repay their debt to the Strawhats.

    "There will be an answer, let it be."

  18. #78
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Oh, we're having the Convenience of Tama/But Momotaro reference discussion again? Just a sec, let me see...*goes through old posts like a filing cabinet*

    Ah, there we go

    Quote Originally Posted by chapter 1004 discussion me
    I have a lot to say about the convenience of Tamas abilities, but the argument that the matter can be dismissed entirely because “Momotaro reference”…err no, that’s not how storytelling works? Things need to work within the confines of story, you can’t just throw out a metatextual reference to another work, and assume this gives you carte blanche to just plop in elements from said work because it worked there. That really is the road that leads towards moon rabbit ladies, and no, why would it make a difference how long in advance you make the reference? Its still the integration into the story that matters. And its not like Naruto didn’t have plenty of moon-mythology references years in advance.
    And while Oda churns out an absolute TON of references to just about everything, its not like the manga follows these references slavishly, or makes no sense if you don’t know them. Usopp makes sense as a character whether you know Pinocchio or not, and didn’t even get puppetered in Dressrosa, what a waste. As for the origin of Momotaro legend in One Piece that goes wayyyyy back to the introduction of the admirals in Water 7. These specific guys represent the animals Momotaro befriended with Dangos, yet they have absolutely nothing to do with dangos, or even Wano, and are not really linked to Sentoumaru, the other big reference? So I guess these guys didn’t foreshadow, or predict, or enable anything, despite the overt references, Yet apparently Momonosukes name alone is enough by itself to justify ANOTHER PERSON, a random starving orphan having the skill to turn NOT a dog, a pheasant and a monkey to her side, but a literal army of half-human half animal soldiers? Are we following the myth or not? Why would that even be satisfactory explanation?

    And at the end of the day the “It’s a mythology reference” excuse does not really address the core complaint of “Tamas ability and the implementation thereof is jarringly convenient” anyway.

    ...
    I mean, unlike the Momotaro legend, acts of kindness doesn't factor into Tamas dango-enabled beast taming at all at all, and the dangos have only ever been deployed in a completely utilitarian matter, in order to neutralize threats or cover up a prison break and whatnot. At no point has the offering of dangos been expressed as a gesture of kindness, Tama doesn't even need to be personally involved in the taming, her ability can tame people remotely by having other people force dangos down peoples throats.


    As for the Zoro miracle drug, it wouldn't be half as bad if it had just been set up a bit more, or involved some effort from someone like Chopper to execute. With Kuma, the sharing of Luffys pain is at least an extension of the abilities Kuma has showcased for the last few chapters, and the whole thing has a long ramp up to make it a dramatic button for the action, but here the miracle drug just...appears from nowhere, to throw Zoro back into the action in a conflict that is nowhere near done.
    Last edited by Daz; June 28th, 2021 at 04:39 AM.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by mandingobeard View Post
    hi yall,

    completely off topic:

    Is there a theory thread made about what BIG MOM' s crew members are (currently)up to in WANO?

    I know there were a lot of theories of blackbeard invading whole cake island(for the ponoglyph) now that big mom is busy fighting in wano with half her crew...

    but isnt it equally possible that big mom's crew are trying to get kaido' s ponoglyph while kaido and his commanders + tobi roppo are busy fighting the strawhat alliance?

    if big moms crew ever since coming to wano hardly participates in the action(besides Perospero), then there must be more to it.

    the way i see it is that if this(big mom crew being idle/passive) continues and big moms crew ends up doing nothing significant in wano, then that would take some points away from ODA' s writing skills IMO.

    on youtube no one speculates about this it seems, what do yall think. is it relevant to theorize about or not?

    peace!
    I think I'm the only one left still counting on the Big Mom Pirates appearing, which I expect to be the turn for the worse that leads to Act 4.

    IMO, Big Mom is clearly plotting something. She's the one masterminding the alliance with Kaido since the Wano's start. She insisted in going to Wano and asked to be friends with Kaido again when she called him. She let herself be captured by Queen. She claims to have been the one who proposed the Alliance. Kaido believes she's after his poneglyph's location. Linlin also hinted possible treason for Perospero ("It's me, don't you trust me?"). With Kaido, she's the other side of the Rocks remnants. There was also some anime director slipping out that there's a "Wano true villain" after Kaido which I'm expecting to be Big Mom.

    Since I feel this arc is the culmination of almost everything that has been building up since the crew stepped into the New World, I can't see it ending without the Big Mom Pirates being addressed. Not to mention that five of them, Galette, Mont-D'or, Daifuku, Smoothie and Perospero, seem built up to be opponents to be fought.

    With all the things going against the Beasts Pirates lately, and the Alliance getting the upper hand time and time again without we ever reaching a climax of tension, to me it's more likely than ever that the Big Mom Pirates will be that element that throw everything into chaos. And I think the key for their reapperance is with Perospero, or through Mont-D'ors book powers. I'm eagerly waiting for the moment Nekomamushi confronts Peros, since that's, IMO, the most likely chance for the later to summon his siblings as his trumpcard.
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  20. #80
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Jun 2007
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    Germany

    Default Re: Chapter 1,017: The Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    I'm still a big fan of the theory that the Gum Gum and Dark Dark Fruits are easily mistaken for each other and both Cipher Pol and Shanks went after the wrong fruit after hearing a report of it being in East Blue.
    Spoiler:







    Everyone involved would have to be a blind idiot to mix up the two

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