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Thread: Yamato’s role in the story.

  1. #121

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghidorah Guy View Post
    One could say the same with respect to Tama, no?
    Well Tama seemed fine staying on Wano to train herself up to be a skilled kunoichi.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by legumes View Post
    The problem is, as many people have stated previously, is that why would Oda just....spend the greater part of the year, planning and writing and drawing all these things building up to Yamato joining and then...toss it into a bin for...what exactly?
    I've already briefly touched upon this, in terms of what Oda could be looking to accomplish under such a scenario. I'm not going to write a novella here detailing my entire analysis of Wano and OP as a whole, what Oda's been setting up, and where I think he plans to take things, but basically, it could serve to further underscore some key major thematic points on the topic of perspective shifts, the malleability of dreams and desires, absolutism, freedom of choice, and many more.

    Basically, here's one of the core ideas I see evolving out of Wano, based on what Oda's working up to all this time: nothing is set in stone, be it fate, dreams...there's room for change, flexibility, varying interpretations...exceptions to every rule. Very significant, far-reaching implications here as to what's come. Whether Oda would use Yamato staying on to underline this, that's another matter. But it's possible. And even then, it need not even be permanent.

    Problem is, people seem to have misconstrued Yamato's importance and relevance to the overall plot here with somehow hinging on their becoming a Strawhat member; there's a lot more at play here meriting the time and focus that's been placed on Yamato alone.

    What's more, in an arc rife with the themes of deceit and misdirection, in which Roger's flashback further emphasized the underlying theme of misconceptions ...methinks people really need to pause and think about Oda what is setting up to do here on multiple fronts, both in terms of Yamato possibly joining, the Raid, and a number of other things. To me, the warning signs are clear: don't rush to conclusions. In fact, he's been rather hammering that point throughout Wano, even as he's been slyly attempting to string readers along..

    Again, not saying I believe Yamato falls in this boat, but it's not impossible with the way things are shaking up.


    He's a good enough author to pen down his intent on paper, and there has been 0 indication that yamato wants to or needs to stay.
    There's nothing to keep an open mind about when the author himself is stating the facts as explicitly as he can. Like i'm not going to entertain perona or hancock arguments for nakama just because "it's good to keep an open mind and Oda can change tack whenever he wants". Sorry for being blunt, but that's just a way to justify fanfic as a possibility (it doesn't work that way when there's no text, even subtext supporting it).
    Well, that's the thing of it: authorial intent, subtext...it's largely subjective, isn't it, especially when taking into account that we're talking about attempts to predict what an author is or isn't going to do before the story's finished?

    There may currently be no explicit indication of Yamato wanting or needing to stay spelled out in crayon, but the overall subtext laid out throughout Wano and the whole story in general, as I see it, certainly laid the groundwork that could potentially lead to some outcome wherein Yamato could change their mind, modify their plans a bit, or even at least even briefly reconsider at some juncture. So no, when I say one should keep an open mind, it has less to do with Oda flipping things on a dime in a vacuum for the mere sake of doing so, and more with people acknowledging the mere possibility they may have been looking at things wrong ( asking a lot in this day and age, I know ).


    Yes. Oda has always been super explicit about the whole dreams matter, from how a person's will/dreams continues to exist past their mortal selfs or whether a villain who's dreams have been crushed no longer have a "stake" per say to fight for*. There's a very clear belief** that the strawhats will achieve their dreams clearly** at the end of the series, whether it's shown at the final conflict or as an epilogue. And that every single SH's dreams have remained super consistent from the moment of their declaration to the current moment so i'm really not sure what you've even talking about here.
    *more accurately, Oda mentioned how Luffy crushing the villains' dreams gave them a second chance to fight for their original dreams. Losing one dream to pursue another...keep that in the back of our head. This is going to become a major topic real soon imo.

    **Clear to fans, you mean. But what's "clear" to the fans may not necessarily translate to a given as to what will see print...at least not in the exact way people think.

    I've already touched upon it already here and elsewhere, but Wano is gearing up on many levels to demonstrate that many things may not prove to be as clear-cut as people expect, things may not go the well people think ( see Roger's expectation that his son would be the next to travel to Laugh Tale for one such tease ). And how dreams, like prophecies, can also prove subject to "interpretation" or "revision." Well, don't take my word for it, but I'm pretty sure we're going to see the hopes and dreams of the Wano people for instance come to fruition....but not in the exact way people think it will, ie the Raid succeeding, Luffy being the "incarnation" of Joyboy ( or only candidate ), the means by which Wano's borders will be opened, the circumstances of Kaido's defeat etc.

    You're probably familiar with the long simmering theory that Blackbeard's going to be the one to become Pirate King, yeah? I'll leave it at that. Basically, don't be shocked if Luffy and Co. will see their respective dreams "ruined" only to gain a second chance at fulfilling said dreams, albeit in a slightly altered form.

    Anyway, let's put it this way: we'll see soon enough if the Raid itself will fail or not. If so, think back to this discussion we're having; it should prove a good indication as to where things are truly headed.

    And if not, well, I'll just have to eat shit. Which is fine, I certainly never claimed I may not be wrong.


    Also there's probably a grand total of 1 person vocally pushing for tama in these forums (from what i see) and even they don't use "strawhat on my head" as an argument or have a dream (she has a dream other than to see wano be free?). So that's completely irrelevant to whatever you're trying to argue (plus the fact she's 8).
    Quite relevant, since (a) lest you forget, Tama made clear her own wish to set sail with Ace (b) it's a long recognized in the fandom at large. However many have taken advantage of that here or not is beside the point.

    The point stands: Tama fits the formula too.

    Frankly, I don't think it's any coincidence either. Oda knows more or less what fans are thinking, so he's seen fit to exploit this to not only keep people guessing but prove a point imo, as I've been outlining.

    As to her age:

    - Look at what we're seeing right now in Onigashima.

    - Kids are no strangers to serving on pirate crews

    - Think back to what I mentioned about the core theme of there existing exceptions to every rule, as well as the prerequisite Ace posed to Tama for joining sailing on his ship. Well, we just saw how Momo shot from 8 to 28; should Luffy try recycling Ace's demand, it's no stretch of the imagination to see how Tama could find a way to "cheat" to rapidly become an adult and "enchanting" Kunoichi.

    That said, I think it's likely Momo will be de-aged by arc's end, so I foresee whatever means is used to be readily available to do the same for Tama, were she to go ahead with this ( strong chance ); if only to avoid the creepy prospect of adults with 8 year old minds running around on a permanent basis.

    Well, with the exception of perhaps a "senile" Big Mom by Wano's end, anyways....but that's another theory and topic.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    Well Tama seemed fine staying on Wano to train herself up to be a skilled kunoichi.
    With the expectation that Ace would return and fulfill his promise. But now Ace is dead, and Luffy's here. Writing's on the wall on this one, I think, so far as what Tama will propose to Luffy.
    Last edited by Ghidorah Guy; September 13th, 2021 at 01:57 PM.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghidorah Guy View Post
    I've already briefly touched upon this, in terms of what Oda could be looking to accomplish under such a scenario. I'm not going to write a novella here detailing my entire analysis of Wano and OP as a whole, what Oda's been setting up, and where I think he plans to take things, but basically, it could serve to further underscore some key major thematic points on the topic of perspective shifts, the malleability of dreams and desires, absolutism, freedom of choice, and many more.

    Basically, here's one of the core ideas I see evolving out of Wano, based on what Oda's working up to all this time: nothing is set in stone, be it fate, dreams...there's room for change, flexibility, varying interpretations...exceptions to every rule. Very significant, far-reaching implications here as to what's come. Whether Oda would use Yamato staying on to underline this, that's another matter. But it's possible. And even then, it need not even be permanent.

    Problem is, people seem to have misconstrued Yamato's importance and relevance to the overall plot here with somehow hinging on their becoming a Strawhat member; there's a lot more at play here meriting the time and focus that's been placed on Yamato alone.

    What's more, in an arc rife with the themes of deceit and misdirection, in which Roger's flashback further emphasized the underlying theme of misconceptions ...methinks people really need to pause and think about Oda what is setting up to do here on multiple fronts, both in terms of Yamato possibly joining, the Raid, and a number of other things. To me, the warning signs are clear: don't rush to conclusions. In fact, he's been rather hammering that point throughout Wano, even as he's been slyly attempting to string readers along..

    Again, not saying I believe Yamato falls in this boat, but it's not impossible with the way things are shaking up.
    I think you're vastly overthinking how Oda works.

    He has never really gone full deceiver, and at his current age, I don't see him straying much from his patterns. I could expect it if he were younger and attempting to bring something new to the table, but as of now, he has little incentive to do so, especially with him wanting to wrap up all the myriad of plot points he already introduced beforehand.

    That's why, at the beginning of this raid, people were expecting certain matchups that... ended up happening for the most part. Zoro and Sanji vs. King and Queen was a common guess and it's happening right now. He even introduced a completely unknown medicine from nowhere just to give Zoro a chance to fight again. Another one was Kin'emon striking down Kanjuro, which seemingly was not going to happen, but then did. This latter event happened because there was enough emotional investment in Kin'emon and Kanjuro's relationship coming all the way back in Dressrosa, and needed a satisfying conclusion.

    Like, Oda can delay plotlines, but he eventually gets them done. He's not the master expectation subverter you think he is. His strengths have always been character writing, foreshadowing and set ups, not red herrings.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I think you're vastly overthinking how Oda works.

    He has never really gone full deceiver, and at his current age, I don't see him straying much from his patterns. I could expect it if he were younger and attempting to bring something new to the table, but as of now, he has little incentive to do so, especially with him wanting to wrap up all the myriad of plot points he already introduced beforehand.

    That's why, at the beginning of this raid, people were expecting certain matchups that... ended up happening for the most part. Zoro and Sanji vs. King and Queen was a common guess and it's happening right now. He even introduced a completely unknown medicine from nowhere just to give Zoro a chance to fight again. Another one was Kin'emon striking down Kanjuro, which seemingly was not going to happen, but then did. This latter event happened because there was enough emotional investment in Kin'emon and Kanjuro's relationship coming all the way back in Dressrosa, and needed a satisfying conclusion.

    Like, Oda can delay plotlines, but he eventually gets them done. He's not the master expectation subverter you think he is. His strengths have always been character writing, foreshadowing and set ups, not red herrings.
    We'll just have to agree to disagree there, as I think you've got Oda pegged all wrong, with heavy emphasis on the highlighted snippet there; are we already forgetting WCI?

    But as I've said previously, arguing back and forth about it won't change a thing. It'll be easy enough to see what's what in the coming months.

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