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Thread: Yamato’s role in the story.

  1. #61
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Well, you quoted me on it.... that's why I mentioned it.
    Cuz you chose to reply it, no?


    I think the biggest factor is that Yamato is pretending to be a man because Oden was a man. That's why. And I don't want to go into the whole trans thing because Yamato is not trans to me. And I rather not bring that whole topic up again. That's why I see it as a way for Yamato to grow as a character and be who she is. Even if I like and think the Oden thing is cute, I just find it hard to believe it being just a quirk and not well character development in accepting one's self.
    If you don't believe Yamato is trans then isn't it even more of a quirk?
    Last edited by Zik; July 25th, 2021 at 05:51 PM.
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  2. #62

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    If you don't believe Yamato is trans then isn't even more of a quirk?
    Not really. I just see an identity crisis. That's about it really.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    There's got to be something with this yamato guy... gurl i mean.
    There should be an explanation why she was hooked up with oden in the 1st place. She's the daughter of a top brass of criminal gang.
    Well being a little kid does help enhancing the reason why she could get attracted to such a cool character in such an event. But, certainly Oden journal has shaped her to become more binded with her role play.
    Waiting for more info to get unleashed.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by kirei_lanford View Post
    There's got to be something with this yamato guy... gurl i mean.
    There should be an explanation why she was hooked up with oden in the 1st place. She's the daughter of a top brass of criminal gang.
    Well being a little kid does help enhancing the reason why she could get attracted to such a cool character in such an event. But, certainly Oden journal has shaped her to become more binded with her role play.
    Waiting for more info to get unleashed.
    Yamato reminded me of Brook in that they both seem to have clung on to one hope for a long time. Laboon was a big reason Brook clung onto wanting to live on for so long despite being stranded on a ship with the bones of his dead crew. I suppose that could also apply to Oden in that he was a hope Yamato didn't want to see die, so she probably decided to emulate him as much as she could out of wanting to carry his will, eventually save Wano, and bring the dawn to the world in time for the next generation of pirates somehow.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Getting pulled in all directions this arc.

    I see Yamato as a strong candidate as a crewmate, but also is very strong as a Wano supporting character moving forward. It's really hard to tell right now because of multiple layers of motivation involved, and we have to see how opening up the borders will actually change the face of Wano.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    I have really hard time to get this "he'll stay in Wano" vibes a lot of other readers are getting, as he keeps saying he'll leave Wano after freed it. However I think it's also a lack of in-story information we have. I'll try to sum up what we know about him.

    - Yamato is the 28yo woman-born child of Kaido. First hole where whatever FB can be easily set: we don't know anything about the childhood nor the relationship with the father up to...
    - ...8yo, when Yamato attends Oden's execution, then probably follows the Scabbards or Kaido to Oden Castle just in time to rescue the notorious logbook and eventually fall in love with Oden's mythical figure, deciding to follow every steps of his. This... idolatry is so strong Yamato decide to totally become just like Kuri's Daimyo, even assuming his gender and name. Reading the logbook he discovers about Oden's will, the love for the adventure, hints about the D and maybe even about Laugh Tale or the One Piece. Yamato's burning passion lead him to wish for leave the island, just as much as Luffy did with Shanks. Just, Kaido eventually discovered about all of this (minus the log?), beat and chained him down. Yamato ate the fruit around this time, after Oden's emulation began and before the chains were put on? Were the chains in kairoseki? I guess this is the only option as we saw Yamato easily running along the island back in Ace's flashback and Onigashima arc's begin, so we can assume the chains weren't to restrain him in a place, but just to weak his DF usage.
    - Second hole where whatever FB can be easily set. To some point Kaido trained him to the use of the bagua or Yamato began emulate his father's technique as Raimei Hakkei.
    - 24yo, Yamato met Ace and they got along. Similar free spirits, love for adventure, hate for fathers, etc. Yamato thought Ace was the promised generation Oden was waiting for, eventually proven wrong two years later. In the meanwhile Yamato is the one who made Ace's vivre card. At this point Yamato began to be updated about external events: while he didn't know about Capone, Kid or Cavendish, he actually discovered about Luffy's existence and even followed his steps, acknowledging his nakamas to the point to recognize them by only the bounty posters.

    Now we're here. Yamato is basically split between two goals:
    - follow Oden's last will to open Wano's borders, as Momonsuke and Hiyori were stated dead and no known people were to carry on the dream Yamato wished to do it;
    - leave Wano and then enjoy a worldwide journey. About this point I have the feeling Yamato not only wish for go in adventure, but to do it with nakamas just as Oden did with Whitebeard or Roger. He made the Vivre Card in order to join Ace believing him to be the ONE, eventually understanding now Luffy is.


    Oden was the same but actually put his own freedom wish above Wano's protection: he left the island even when he has responsabilities over Kuri and even voluntary not acknowledging Kaido's factories over the island when they passed with Roger's crew. We can easily assume if he did, Roger pirates would've joined the battle and prevented the whole saga setup. I think Yamato will be given the inverted choice: he'll leave Wano only after protected it.
    Quote Originally Posted by rayleigh92 View Post
    Carrot sneaked on the Sunny when they left Zou, not asking or requesting anyone. IF Carrot is going to join, I expect something like that, with the crew ready to leave Wano, all of them beginning to party for new nakama Yamato and then "wha-t?! Carrot is near Luffy

  7. #67
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayleigh92 View Post

    Now we're here. Yamato is basically split between two goals:
    - follow Oden's last will to open Wano's borders, as Momonsuke and Hiyori were stated dead and no known people were to carry on the dream Yamato wished to do it;
    - leave Wano and then enjoy a worldwide journey. About this point I have the feeling Yamato not only wish for go in adventure, but to do it with nakamas just as Oden did with Whitebeard or Roger. He made the Vivre Card in order to join Ace believing him to be the ONE, eventually understanding now Luffy is.


    Oden was the same but actually put his own freedom wish above Wano's protection: he left the island even when he has responsabilities over Kuri and even voluntary not acknowledging Kaido's factories over the island when they passed with Roger's crew. We can easily assume if he did, Roger pirates would've joined the battle and prevented the whole saga setup. I think Yamato will be given the inverted choice: he'll leave Wano only after protected it.
    I dont think these are opposing goals. One actually begets the other.

    Yamato wants to do what Oden didn't get to and open Wano's borders (back when he thought he was the only one left to do it. Now that he knows Momo is alive he wants to beat Kaido to ensure Momo can do it thus fulfilling what Oden wanted. Hence, the whole I'll die for you line, I cant be Oden if I leave Wano in this state line, gotta best Kaido and open those borders.

    Once that happens Yamato will go explore and have adventures to his hearts content. One leads to the next.

    Yamato is basically doing what Oden did/wanted in reverse; Oden left to explore the world and then came back wanting to open Wano's borders. Yamato is going to beat Kaido (help beat) in order for Wano to be safer than it was so Momo can open the country's borders.

    There's no eternal protection of Wano involved. Oden got his fill of adventure and was ready to settle down and lead Wano to a new open borders era. Yamato has yet to even experience any adventure and is helping to set the stage in Wano for Momo so he can leave conscience free to pursue his dreams and goals.

    But yeah same conclusion you came to. Protect first then leave.

    When you think about it that's basically what Sanji, Nami, Usopp, and Chopper did before joining. Protected their homes and then left with Luffy. Technically Jimbe also did as well.
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  8. #68

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Can some people in this thread please stop calling Yamato "She"?

    I get that a chunk of the fanbase is convinced that his reason for identifying as male doesn't qualify him as trans, and are waiting for his character arc to conclude with him switching to identifying as a woman, but for now he has insisted he's a man and everyone around him treats him as such.

    - Kaido and all of his forces call him "Kaido's Son"
    - He himself said he's a man
    - Luffy calls him "YamaGuy"

    Y'all are basically saying "Because I'm pretty sure my fan theory about where this character's arc is going to go is correct, I don't have to respect his current Gender Identity" and that's ridiculously scummy to me.

    If you end up being right and that eventually happens, switch to referring to him as a girl THEN.
    For now just take him (and Kaido, and Luffy for that matter) at their word and treat him like a guy.

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  9. #69
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    The current forum protocol is to live and let live on Yamato's pronouns. He, she and they are all allowed as long as people aren't throwing shade about it.



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  10. #70
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    The current forum protocol is to live and let live on Yamato's pronouns. He, she and they are all allowed as long as people aren't throwing shade about it.
    Until the end of the manga?

    Cuz I see this going on for a long time. This pronoun issue.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  11. #71
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Until the end of the manga?

    Cuz I see this going on for a long time. This pronoun issue.
    I guess so, unless we get something very concrete at some point. Until then, I'll say he, someone else can say she, and that's as good a compromise as we can currently expect.



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  12. #72

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    I have a theory that Yamatos pronoun thing goes beyond his Oden cosplay thing. Personal i think Kaido raised him as his son since he always planned to make him Shogun of Wano.
    Why else would all of the ALK pirates go along with using male pronouns?


  13. #73

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    I have a theory that Yamatos pronoun thing goes beyond his Oden cosplay thing. Personal i think Kaido raised him as his son since he always planned to make him Shogun of Wano.
    Why else would all of the ALK pirates go along with using male pronouns?
    Yeah, possibly going back to earlier in the story in which a dad told his daughter that a woman couldn't become the strongest swordsman and wanted a patriarchy for his dojo, with Kaido's subordinates referring to Yamato as a son possibly out of fear. I was also reminded of Ranmaru Rindo from Good Luck Girl!
    Last edited by electricmastro; July 29th, 2021 at 01:33 PM.

  14. #74
    Witch of Miracles otakufan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DollarScholar View Post
    I have a theory that Yamatos pronoun thing goes beyond his Oden cosplay thing. Personal i think Kaido raised him as his son since he always planned to make him Shogun of Wano.
    Why else would all of the ALK pirates go along with using male pronouns?
    I get the opposite impression personally.

    Obviously there's been plenty of discussion regarding the influence of "Rose of Versailles" on Oda during Yamato's development, but nothing I've seen out of Kaidou thus far gives me the impression that he would particularly care whether his child was a boy or a girl and Yams himself links his decision to be a man to his desire to "become" Oden in his introductory chapter. If he were raised as a boy from the start, I feel that it wouldn't be necessary to link the two, and the Beast Pirates overall seem like it doesn't really matter either - the strong rise to the top, regardless of sex or gender - so I'm inclined to think Yamato probably was raised as a girl initially and switched after becoming inspired by Oden's death.

    Kaidou evidently chose to accept (or at least roll with) Yamato's decision at least as far as the "I'm a man" aspect goes, and the Beast Pirates followed suit because, if nothing else, at the end of the day, Kaidou's the boss, Yams is the boss's kid, and if you piss either one of them off, you're likely to get a kanabo to the face.

    That's my take, at least. If/when we get a flashback detailing their backstories, I expect this will be cleared up a bit.

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  15. #75

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    I think Oda treats the whole situation whimsically. Everyone in the story identifies Yamato as a man, but Oda still plays with the fact that Yamato is biologically female. When Yamato opened his dress and told Momo to get in, clearly Momo is affected by that.

    It kind of muddies the waters as to how Oda is handling this discussion. It's unclear if Oda is going to make an overall point about identity or just breeze past it, like Kamabakka.

    This is clearly an important conversation, but it remains to be seen if One Piece is a good source for this discussion.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    It would be hilarious to see Yamato interact with the Okama like Bon Kurei anf Ivankov lol!


  17. #77

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoNancy View Post
    I think Oda treats the whole situation whimsically. Everyone in the story identifies Yamato as a man, but Oda still plays with the fact that Yamato is biologically female. When Yamato opened his dress and told Momo to get in, clearly Momo is affected by that.

    It kind of muddies the waters as to how Oda is handling this discussion. It's unclear if Oda is going to make an overall point about identity or just breeze past it, like Kamabakka.

    This is clearly an important conversation, but it remains to be seen if One Piece is a good source for this discussion.
    Yeah, it does feels decidedly different even when compared to Kiku, whom I recognize as a woman as her gender lifestyle choice she personally made on her own terms, despite her Vivre Card referring her biological gender as male. I suppose if Oda really wanted to push the message that Yamato is a man in the sense of being a trans man/gender identity instead of a romanticized man, then he wouldn't have done things like make a boob joke with Yamato opening her clothes to Momo as if to reference Momo's boob jokes with Nami and Robin, whom see their own gender identity as women from the start.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    The pronoun issue is always going to be something to debate, but the way I see it is if even Kaido resolves to call Yamato his son, then Yamato is a He in terms of *his choice* to be referred to as a male.

    And it really should only be about choice. If that is what even Kaido respects (given the translations are correct) then that's what I think Yamato should be referred to as. If there is ambiguity and Yamato accepts any or either pronoun, than that's fine too. But in terms of respecting the character, I think He/him is the proper pronoun that should probably be kept consistent, until we get any further elaboration on Oda's part.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    You know, when Ivankov first appeared. In that very chapter 537, s.he didn't give a flying fuck about what gender that *pirate* identified with. He just turned him into a women just for the lulz.

    Anyway, I was wondering if there was a forum policy for Ivankov and Bentham too. Since they both have the ability to turn into a biological women, and come back from it.

    If Oda hasn't made it clear for those two. What makes anyone believe that Yamato will soon be completely confirmed as transgender ? (Like in real life.)
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  20. #80

    Default Re: Yamato’s role in the story.

    Pronoun issue is simple: people will use whatever the Strawhats settle on. Unless there is a division among the main characters on what to call him, then I guess people just use whatever they want. There is no need for a forum rule that everyone must follow


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