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Thread: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

  1. #81

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    But the core problem of Wano's suffering isn't the border issue. It's because it's ruled by shitty people - Kaido and Orochi. Besides, the border issue goes for centuries, but the people weren't starving and half-dead for centuries, too, were they?
    No they were not.

    But its that previous trend of isolationism that left them vulnerable to what is happening now.

    If Wano was not an isolated country, it could have 100% been able to join the World Government and benefit from it.

    If it went the Alabasta Kingdom way, it would have been able to form strong alliances and create something as solid as the Kinokuni kingdom, which has a navy that equals the military might of the marines.

    Its a not great analogy, but compare it to climate change. Sure when people were fucking the environment up, there really weren't any immediate consequences, but in time those consequences are beginning to image and at one point in time it will be a fact and not an inevitability.

    The current generation of Wano is suffering from the isolationist ethos of their ancestors.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
    It has to be political and rooted in tradition and less to do with any kind of prophecy.

    In my headcannon: The Kozuki's chose to close Wano up because they did not want the World Government(or anyone else) to exploit their vast supply of Seastone. Acquiring Wano and doing that would be similar to gaining an Ancient Weapon(you effectively render DF advantages null and void), so the ancient Kozukis chose to hide away because they could not destroy it.(Basically, Wano is the Wakanda of One Piece).

    Unfortunately it can also be something as lame as a promise to Joyboy or something.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    And that's exactly my problem. You have to come up with headcanon because the story just doesn't provide anything of substance.
    Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

  3. #83

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Nah, the story will explain it and it will make sense.

    This particular country has a significant role in the story. Expect that Oda won't just brush it away with something like prophecy.

    He's avoided prophecy for nearly 800+chapters. Believe that he is not suddenly turning into Kishimoto and making his story centered on prophecies and repeating cycles.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  4. #84
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    I'm with Artemis here, the whole "open Wanos Borders!" plotline is extremely undercooked, and guts the arc of much of its potential pathos. The idea is operating on "just trust me, its real important, for some reason, it'll be explained later", but it leaves us without a clear grounding for Odens goals and motivation- because explaining it would be a spoiler - and also means that all the scabbards working to enact Odens will have no real idea why they're doing it, beyond "Oden wanted it so it must be important I guess"

    There has never been established a throughline from "closed borders-->current Kaidou misery", when Oden makes a dying speech about how much he wants to open Wanos borders there is zero sense that this is meaningful or desirable for the Wanoese, whos current predicament is not so much a result of closed borders as it is a despot gaining the throne through magic trickery and gradually letting outsider agents in to occupy the nation.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016 - It's me, OTama!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    The next Strawhat fights will set the tone I guess, so I'm waiting for them with a mix of dread and excitment.
    You sort of have to hold up hope that he won't screw over Robin too

  6. #86

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    However, the problem is this lack of clear goals and motivations for the protagonist side basically affects every storytelling aspect in a fundamental way. Therefore absolutely everything feels completely disjointed. None of the dozens of subplots are intervowen in a good and meaningful way - because the basic fundament of the story just is completely missing.

    Therefore, the Nami subplot is one of the many casualties of the poorly established leitmotif of the Wano arc. Resulting in this complete mess lacking any meaningful tension and stakes.
    Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kfunk View Post
    I'm also disappointed for Nami and Usopp but at the same time I realize that Ulti/Page 1 aren't that far below the enemies they will likely face at the end of the series. Emperor veteran level fighters competing to become commander. If the two weakest crewmembers were able to deal with these type of fighters right now it would be difficult to create tension for the final battle without going full power creep.
    Frustration is normal but having Nami being carried through against an opponent at Ulti level despite all her determination will end up being the better choice long term.
    Nami was able to defeat the second number in Baroque works with a weapon which most features were party tricks. In the end it is rather if Oda wants it or not.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    .

    He's avoided prophecy for nearly 800+chapters. Believe that he is not suddenly turning into Kishimoto and making his story centered on prophecies and repeating cycles.

    I don't know it rather seems to me like we have a lot of prophecies currently

  8. #88

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    For me, this arc is just missing the weight of emotion and tension. There's been quite a bit of instances where there's been skipped content that once you it adds up, the arc becomes do disjointed ... And that also affects my investment in the characters.

    So I'm with Artemis and Daz. The meat and potatoes this arc should have just isn't there.

    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  9. #89

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    My biggest problem with current OP is that it completely lacks a proper central theme. Instead all of the emotional foundation is hidden behind some vague prophecy stuff.

    So the story is about opening Wano's borders? But why? Is there any actual given reason - aside from the prophesy and the upcoming Dawn? Did we witness a single situation in which we were actually shown some concrete misery where the main source of problem is the shut down borders?
    Opening the borders is the goal of the Scabbards and Momo because that was Oden's dying wish. Luffy and the Strawhats do not have the same goal. They want to help their friends country and defeat an Emperor. Momo explicitly tells Luffy he wants to defeat Kaido in chapter 819 and Luffy responds that he will defeat Kaido. That's it. The border issue is for the people of Wano to deal with.

    I think chapter 918 is a microcosm of the whole arc. The Strawhats (Luffy and Zoro) team up with the rebels of Wano (Kiku). They topple the corrupt Wano elite ( Urashima) and the Beast Pirates (Holdem) and return food and prosperity to the oppressed citizens of Wano (bringing the treasure barge to Okobore).

    Its like for Alabasta, Luffy wanted to fight a Warlord and help his friend Vivi. The Strawhats have spent weeks and some an entire month in Wano and want to liberate this country. Compare that to the afternoon they had in Alabasta before joining the Civil War.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Just makes me remember that old man who kept digging his well. That was an emotional hook moment for me that made me fully invested in seeing Crocs ass beat.

  11. #91

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Just makes me remember that old man who kept digging his well. That was an emotional hook moment for me that made me fully invested in seeing Crocs ass beat.
    Definitely. And Zoro has had multiple of those moments in Wano alone. He meets and fights alongside Kiku and she even bandages his left arm. Shows why he's enraged after seeing her severed left arm in the Live Floor. Then he meets Yasu and the people of Ebisu who give him water and kindness. He meets Hiyori and Toko and defends their lives. He even got so mad over Yasu's death he tried to kill Orochi.

    Luffy was fed by Otama and learned about Ace's promise. He was trained by Hyogoro and inspired the prionsers of Udon.

    And Sanji literally wore the physical reminder of his hated birth family and used the raid suit for the first time to defend the innocent townspeople from Page One.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Just makes me remember that old man who kept digging his well. That was an emotional hook moment for me that made me fully invested in seeing Crocs ass beat.
    As well as Arrow and the others that were laughed at by Crocodile in their desperation to save Alabasta, and reinforcing how cruel he was.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    I was under the impression that the arc's themes were fully apparent and the end goal pretty clearly laid out, so to hear that there's confusion over it has caught me off guard.

    The central themes of the arc are the dangers of isolationism, the relationship that food/basic services have between people, and the way that people can be simultaneously inspired by and burdened by the past.

    The people of the country are decades behind the rest of the world culturally and are deprived of new experiences as a direct result of their isolationism. That's pretty bad in One Piece, a story about how exploring the world and encountering new viewpoints is the only way to defeat the old ways of thinking that powerful tyrants use to keep the populace under their thumbs. One of the ways they do this is by controlling basic services that should be a human right but are instead monopolized and used as tools of manipulation. Oda's not been particular vague about this, considering that Wano has sacrificed its agriculture in order to devote most of the land to weapons manufacturing for the elite, which has led to famine and poisoned rivers. And it's thanks to that famine that Orochi was able to ship off those defective smile fruits to the poor in order to force them to constantly appear happy and keep up the image he wants for the country. Tama's whole deal is that she gave the last of her food to Luffy and literally having the power to shift the tides of the war by feeding her cheek dangos to the smile fruit users. The big hero of history is named Oden for god's sake.

    And all of this stems from the fact that everyone's dealing with some version of the past in different ways. Oden was inspired to open Wano after learning of the past, Momo constantly feels the pressure of trying to measure up to his father, Kaido is obsessed with how certain figures will be perceived in history after they're gone, and his son Yamato now idolizes Oden and associates him with freedom. Toki who had a literal time traveling fruit and who plucked the scabbards out of the past and thrust them towards the future, and how those same scabbards struggle with how they never got to grieve after Oden's death which left them vulnerable to Kanjuro, and how this whole thing got kicked off because Orochi was manipulated into seeking revenge for the persecution of the Kurozumis, and finds himself obsessed with the idea that someday the scabbards will return and take revenge on him instead.

    This all seemed like it was laid out pretty openly.

  14. #94
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    I just don't understand why Oda would rob Nami and Usopp of a clean victory like this.
    Probably the same reason Luffy isn't getting one.

    This isn't a martial arts tournament or boxing match. Shit happens. Pirates don't fight fair. They're in a pretty crowded place in a big battle. It's the type of fight tailor made for interruptions, team-ups, and ppl jumping in.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  15. #95

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Probably the same reason Luffy isn't getting one.

    This isn't a martial arts tournament or boxing match. Shit happens. Pirates don't fight fair. They're in a pretty crowded place in a big battle. It's the type of fight tailor made for interruptions, team-ups, and ppl jumping in.
    Well Oda is definitely making that pretty apparent since Ulti has gone down about half a dozen times already. Hehe.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
    Nobody was leaving Wano, so apparently they didn’t have much news of the outside world. They just knew that their ancestors closed country for fear and f a great power. Oden was the only one, at least on his time, that wanted to go out and explore the world and even he couldn’t do it till Whitebeard got shipwrecked there. I think that kind of solves your issue.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tenchu View Post
    Nobody was leaving Wano, so apparently they didn’t have much news of the outside world. They just knew that their ancestors closed country for fear and f a great power. Oden was the only one, at least on his time, that wanted to go out and explore the world and even he couldn’t do it till Whitebeard got shipwreck there. I think that kind of solves your issue.
    Yeah, it seems that no one really started to actively question why Wano got closed until Oden came along, and basically found out from Joy Boy and his connection to the Void Century as to why Wano got closed up in the first place, whatever the exact reason was.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Probably the same reason Luffy isn't getting one.
    Luffy will miss the final blow against Kaido and Momo will get him?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    Well Oda is definitely making that pretty apparent since Ulti has gone down about half a dozen times already. Hehe.
    Three times: In her dinosaur form against Yamato; her hybrid form against Big Mom's homies, and now in her human form against Zeus. 1 more left.

  19. #99
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    But the core problem of Wano's suffering isn't the border issue. It's because it's ruled by shitty people - Kaido and Orochi. Besides, the border issue goes for centuries, but the people weren't starving and half-dead for centuries, too, were they?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
    Wano houses secrets about the Void Century. If the World Government was to learn that in Wano, one could potentially learn how to read the ancient language, they'd invade Wano, at best, or outright extermination, at worst.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    Wano houses secrets about the Void Century. If the World Government was to learn that in Wano, one could potentially learn how to read the ancient language, they'd invade Wano, at best, or outright extermination, at worst.
    Yeah but like nobody knows that, Kin'emon seemed completely unaware of Poneglyph stones and Language.

    That's Artemis's issue, why dont they just tell stuff, so they actually know what's going on.

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