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Thread: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

  1. #81

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    If so, then why are many people who are sure about referring to Kiku as a woman are unsure about referring to Yamato as a man?
    Because people are judging books by their covers. "Looks like a girl, must be a girl."

    If Yamato was flat chested and more androgynous there'd be less debate most likely.
    If Kiku had stubble or hairy legs like past trans characters in the series, it'd probably be a bad time in the community. Instead, you can miss Kiku's trans identity entirely because Oda didn't draw attention to it.

    Oda had ONE caption to confirm Yaamto's birth *sex*, (so it's not a disguise or trick or ivankov situation) and then literally everything else before and since has supported the *gender* Yamato wants.
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  2. #82
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    It's funny how people are still hung up about one of only two instances where Yamato is referred to as female and ignore the dozens of time he's referred to as male, not only in the main series by the official translator but also in the official popularity poll results stream and the high school spinoff

  3. #83

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    If so, then why are many people who are sure about referring to Kiku as a woman are unsure about referring to Yamato as a man?

    https://i.ibb.co/D93fGy0/6-FA553-F8-...B80639-AE0.jpg
    This simple comes down to looks and nothing else.
    Yes it possible when the arc end yamato want to be woman but until then he see him self as a man and everything for months has been that way .
    TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .

  4. #84

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    It's funny how people are still hung up about one of only two instances where Yamato is referred to as female and ignore the dozens of time he's referred to as male, not only in the main series by the official translator but also in the official popularity poll results stream and the high school spinoff
    Not to mention the 2nd instance straight up has Yamato angered at being called "Kaido's daughter" by a Spade Pirate that's never met him before:


  5. #85

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Because people are judging books by their covers. "Looks like a girl, must be a girl."

    If Yamato was flat chested and more androgynous there'd be less debate most likely.
    If Kiku had stubble or hairy legs like past trans characters in the series, it'd probably be a bad time in the community. Instead, you can miss Kiku's trans identity entirely because Oda didn't draw attention to it.

    Oda had ONE caption to confirm Yaamto's birth *sex*, (so it's not a disguise or trick or ivankov situation) and then literally everything else before and since has supported the *gender* Yamato wants.
    Oda had Kiku introduced as a waitress, instead of a waiter or son, and had her wholeheartedly refer to herself as a woman on her own terms. That along with drawing comparisons to Nami’s face is probably why many people had less confusion and were more quick and casual about referring to Kiku as a woman, myself included as I have no confusion at all in referring to her as a woman, in spite of things like Kiku’s Vivre Card referring to Kiku as a male for example.



  6. #86

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    It's not difficult. If someone wants to be referred to as a man, refer to them as a man. If they want to be referred to as a woman, refer to them as a woman. As of now, Yamato clearly prefers being referred to as a man. If Yamato wants to be referred to as a woman by the end of the arc, I'll do so then.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Logia View Post
    Kanjuro could be dead for good this time. Though I wonder if there's a possibility that if Kin'emon shows up in a future chapter (alive), and Shinobu or Momonosuke are around, that they are hesitant on his reappearance. Whether it's actually him or not.
    He fulfilled his ambition to to die a gloriously flashy death, going along with Ace and Whitebeard fulfilling their ambitions just before they died, so Kanjuro might very well be dead unless he has more role in the story to do.

  8. #88

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    Luffy has a more meaningful connection with Kinemon than he did with Pound though.
    I know and agree, Kinemon dying would definitely weigh more in the story. But hey, if deaths in One Piece were following any sort of logic we would not even be having this conversation in the first place, so there's no telling.

    All I'm asking for by now is that this can have been him taking a hit for real and not some cheap fake-out like the destroyed Sunny or Law shot dead by Doflamingo. That Oda lets Kinemon be down for good, dead or alive, and doesn't retract on this impactful spread next week. Kinemon served his purpose, he set in motion the uprising to free his country, he put down Kanjuro in a very satisfying confrontation, he sacrificed himself to let his lord escape. Let this be his shining moment and move the story forward.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    I know and agree, Kinemon dying would definitely weigh more in the story. But hey, if deaths in One Piece were following any sort of logic we would not even be having this conversation in the first place, so there's no telling.

    All I'm asking for by now is that this can have been him taking a hit for real and not some cheap fake-out like the destroyed Sunny or Law shot dead by Doflamingo. That Oda lets Kinemon be down for good, dead or alive, and doesn't retract on this impactful spread next week. Kinemon served his purpose, he set in motion the uprising to free his country, he put down Kanjuro in a very satisfying confrontation, he sacrificed himself to let his lord escape. Let this be his shining moment and move the story forward.
    Eh, I saw those as trying to ramp up drama with cliffhangers and the like rather than to offend people with a death that turns out to be fake. I guess I say that because I personally don’t try to see every gunshot, stab, or attack as a fake out just because the character survives every time. It would definitely add for more meaning in fulfilling what Oden would have wanted in letting Momo the next shogun live.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    If Kaido heard about Joyboy from Rocks then he must have been very close to him. I am pretty sure Whitebeard didn't hear about it until Roger told him.That's why he hinted about Joyboy as 'the person Roger waiting for..'.
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  11. #91

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    I think Kaidou was close to Rocks. It's implied that Kaidou was the youngest member of the Rocks Pirates so its possible that he looked up to Rocks while most of the other members of the crew didn't really trust each other. I imagine his issues about pirates betraying one another comes from the fact that Rocks probably lost because people in their crew changed sides (like Whitebeard possibly).

  12. #92
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Retro View Post
    Right officials out, my take.

    Still think it's dumb Luffy was defeated like that. This just feels like that second Crocodile fight or the encounter with Eneru. Tension to draw things out further but feels just silly here because it was Luffy's fault this time. Kadio seriously thinks that's the end of the fight after seeing Luffy practically get back up after expending his Haki the first time? If he really respects him, he wouldn't even write him off like that. But meh.
    Luffy is a devil fruit user that is unconscious and just fell in to the ocean. This isn't about respect. There is no reason for Kaido to think oh that guy will definitely survive that and return to fight me again. Luffy is going to survive cuz of plot armor not cuz Kaido underestimated him or how lucky he is when someone or something else will save him from drowning.

    I'll also go on to say ppl speculating cuz of the opening of the anime that unconscious Luffy will now be able to use haki after falling in to the water to disperse it are crazy. If haki can now negate the effects of devil fruit user weaknesses like the sea itself then there are no more stakes.


    Oh no Kinimon dead... no seriously, I'm in shock he sacrificed himself.. Soooo shocked.
    That was definitely not a sacrifice. Shinobu hasnt even left the floor with Momo. Kinnemon thought he'd be able to stall. Plus he's probably not dead.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  13. #93

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    I’m really surprised, but I like Luffy being sidelined here. I thought it would be exhausting to reset the whole fight, but looking at everything else, it is probably for the best to put Kaido elsewhere and have the focus on other characters for a bit. That is assuming that Luffy does not get up again next chapter and restarts the whole "Luffy needs to get to Kaido" spiel. I hope Oda has a twist in store here. A sneaky underrated moment in One Piece for me is Luffy collapsing while on pursuit to the third Crocodile fight. It managed to delay him while also highlighting how he is in way over his head. It also felt very unique at the time. The current "Luffy is unconscious - wait no, he powered up now" cycle almost felt like a parody of that moment, so with him being truly out, I think we have good chance to create a cool scene if Oda has something up this sleeve.

    The scabbards scene was well done, but as others have mentioned, the impact is lessened a bit by the previous fake-out. Still, one of the better moments in Onigashima for sure.

    To a larger point that has been sitting with me for a while: The past couple of chapters I started to think about Onigashima and how I'm disappointed in it as a location. This chapter features most of my problems.

    First, the visual identity is not ... great. It is probably unfair to compare it to something like Impel Down, where the location was somewhat of character itself, but I'll do it anyway. In Impel Down each floor had its unique features, along with a somewhat distinct group of guards and inmates. It gave me the illusion that I could possible tell what floor we're on in any given panel. Onigashima has none of that - we have multiple floors, but they all look the same and are full of weird animal people. In that one panel, Yamato could be anywhere, really. It's a shame, because in the beginning, there was this great scenery at the entrance, a district, a big tree, seemingly different climates on the same island. All that had potential for cool distinct locations to fight in. However, that got lost in the shuffle for me.

    Second, I have a lot of trouble to gauge any distance in Onigashima. Enies Lobby also had somewhat generic tower layout with a lot of people running around, but towards the end, Oda really nailed it with Usopp shooting the keys. Robin has been slowly walking towards the gate, Franky sprinting behind her, Luffy is somewhere in-between and the remaining crew is far behind, so Usopp has to shoot the keys - makes sense, everything kinda falls into place.
    In contrast, I have no idea how far or close anyone is to anyone or anything. Kidd made it down to lower floors and Big Mom rather quick. Law is on his way to the same place (I think), and he can teleport and he is...where exactly? In the beginning, Marco, who can fly, basically flicked Zoro from the main plaza to the roof top in an instant. At some point, Sanji was also in one of the upper floors and Robin/Brook made it there in what seemed like instant from the main plaza. Now Sanji, who can also fly, is taking Zoro from the roof top (?) down to the main plaza, but he is…somewhere on his perpetual way. Kin'emon and Kaido reached Momo immediately, but Yamato, in roughly the same time, definitely failed to reach the roof top and is god knows where on some generic "third floor". I have also no idea where Nami/Usopp/Tama are in relation to anything.

    Now, obviously, there are different routes and whatever route Luffy took to the top, took way longer than Zoro/Law for cinematic reasons. The same obviously applies to the Kaido/Yamato situation. And there is time stuff going on, not everything we are shown happens exactly in sequence. I get all of that. But in its totality, it's starting to get confusing for me and in turn, makes it seem like anyone can be as fast or slow as needed be. That takes out some of the surprise or drama that could be there. If Chopper struggles a lot next chapter, should I get worried, because there is no help? Or should I expect Sanji/Zoro to be right around the corner? I have no idea. In the past, those mini maps were a good crutch, but without any sense of distance, I don't know how useful they are. I believe the last known location of Sanji/Zoro is "second floor". So...is that "close" to Chopper? And Big Mom is "on the same floor" - since Law went ahead of Sanji, why hasn't he reached her, if that is his goal? Or is he already at the Kin'emon crawl space? Maybe, who knows - I surely don't. :)

  14. #94
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Or Kaido heard from Joy Boy because he is in posetion of one of the Poneglyphs. Sure he can't read it but neither could Crocodile and yet he knew that the Arabasta Poneglyph gave away Plutons location.

    Btw, totally different question. Why's the chapter titled "The Ham"? Kinda missed that part.^^'



  15. #95

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    Or Kaido heard from Joy Boy because he is in posetion of one of the Poneglyphs. Sure he can't read it but neither could Crocodile and yet he knew that the Arabasta Poneglyph gave away Plutons location.

    Btw, totally different question. Why's the chapter titled "The Ham"? Kinda missed that part.^^'
    It seems it's a music title.

    But Ham is also used for an actor that exagerates on his/her role.

    Check ou this TV Tropes article description:
    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  16. #96
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    Or Kaido heard from Joy Boy because he is in posetion of one of the Poneglyphs. Sure he can't read it but neither could Crocodile and yet he knew that the Arabasta Poneglyph gave away Plutons location.

    Btw, totally different question. Why's the chapter titled "The Ham"? Kinda missed that part.^^'
    Apparantly there's someone here that thinks it's referring to a Charles Aznavour-song but I read the text and don't understand why it would be referencing that at all.
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  17. #97

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    Btw, totally different question. Why's the chapter titled "The Ham"? Kinda missed that part.^^'


    The chapter title is from this song.

    "Le cabotin" with music by Georges Gavarentz.and original lyrics by Charles Aznavour, was released in 1968. The English lyrics were adapted by Bob Morrison.

    lyrics
    Hidden:
    I am only a ham
    It’s the way that I am
    I was born just to play
    On a stage cold and bare
    In a spotlight’s great glare
    It’s my life it’s my way

    I’m a ham look at me
    On a stage I am free
    Every moment is mine
    Give me time to prepare
    Get an audience there
    And my talent will shine
    It will shine

    In shady rooms and smoky light
    I bare my soul most every night

    It’s both my torment and my risk

    It’s in my blood
    It’s in my soul
    I live to act
    To play my role
    The final challenge burning bright
    I talk I laugh I know it’s right

    Though I’m only a ham
    It’s my life it’s my story
    It’s a world of my own
    I can stand up alone
    In my moment of glory

    And when the stage lights dim
    My cup fills to the brim
    I feel I can’t go on
    Until the moment comes
    My heart pounds like a drum
    I watch my execution

    The curtains rise at last
    Aside my fears are cast
    I’ll enter make-believe
    And watch me as I weave
    The web of my illusion

    Though I’m only a ham
    Let me be what I am
    I have chosen my fate
    I knew right from the start
    That I’d master my art
    And I’d live to create

    You may think I’m insane
    And am foolish or vain
    But I’m true to my cause
    Set the stage
    Light the light
    You’ll see genius tonight
    Here in my tour de force.
    Tour de force.

    Full make-up on
    With natural face
    With clumsy movements
    Or with grace
    I wish I thought
    In even bursts
    I feel drunk
    I feel cursed
    I’ll play the king
    I’ll play the fool
    I will be tender or be cruel
    I live I die
    I lie to you
    And I believe

    Some will envy or scorn
    But it’s why I was born
    I am proud of my story
    I must be what I am
    I am only a ham
    In his moment of glory


    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Apparantly there's someone here that thinks it's referring to a Charles Aznavour-song but I read the text and don't understand why it would be referencing that at all.
    The official translator confirmed it.

    The lyrics are about Kanjuro. They're an incredibly perfect match.

    About an actor who lives only to play their part until they die.Live, you couldn't pick a better choice to make an AMV out of and Oda gave us the prompt.
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    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Apparantly there's someone here that thinks it's referring to a Charles Aznavour-song but I read the text and don't understand why it would be referencing that at all.
    The Ham, both as a trope and in the song, is about an actor whose character is larger-than-life, someone whose part in a play is everything to them whereas their own life is insignificant in comparison. It's all about Kanjurou and if you read it with this in mind, the lyrics of the song really hit home. This title manages to give Kanjurou more character than his every on-panel performance combined, it really is brilliant.

  19. #99
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    The Ham, both as a trope and in the song, is about an actor whose character is larger-than-life, someone whose part in a play is everything to them whereas their own life is insignificant in comparison. It's all about Kanjurou and if you read it with this in mind, the lyrics of the song really hit home. This title manages to give Kanjurou more character than his every on-panel performance combined, it really is brilliant.
    Ah, I see. To you and Robby: thanks for that explanation ! It's pretty crazy Oda would include a Charles Aznavour-reference in his manga. But indeed, readingt the lyrics with KAnjuro in mind does make a LOT of sense.
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  20. #100

    Default Re: Chapter 1,014: The Ham

    That time when you learn a song by Charles Aznavour from a manga :-)
    I think I never heard it in all my life. Well I'm not a big fan of him and it's really not among his most famous one.


    About Kaidou knowing Joy Boy, is it that surprising ? It seems him and Big Mum know about the necessity of the 4 road poneglyphs. So they have some intel one what is at the end of the Grand Line

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