+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 83

Thread: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

  1. #61

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    I'm more inclined to follow Zik's thinking on this one. It's fun to take one scene or one character that feels like they just barely fell short and try to tweak it into the most ideal form, but in terms of restructuring the whole story or power system or series-long development of a main character... nah, I've got my own creative projects for that kind of thing. One Piece is Oda's story. The differences in how he handles plot and character compared to how I'd do it are what makes it interesting to read.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    At Puffing Cinema's request, I'm copying in my post from here, because it absolutely fits the purpose of this thread as well as it does the weekly discussion.

    I kinda pitched this in the Greg thread too, but I think it wouldn't have taken a lot of little changes to improve the reception of Nami and Ulti. I don't want to rewrite the whole last 20 chapters to squeeze a complete dedicated fight in there. Oda decided he didn't want that, and it's his story. But I think a few small editorial changes to framing and dialogue (and one significant switcheroo) could make a big difference in how people expected things to go and how this sequence feels to read. This is how I would improve the Nami/Ulti reading experience without adding more chapters, or even more pages, to the story Oda's decided to tell about them:

    The fight starts the same way it did before. Nami and Usopp draw the attention of Page One and Ulti in the Performance Floor melee, are cornered in the bathhouse and quickly overwhelmed, with the dinosaur siblings simply pushing through all their attacks with brute force. Nami has her moment of defiance before being rescued by Tama's group. I think all of that works fine the way it is.

    But Oda set up too early that Zeus is going to be the solution. Lots of people, including myself, guessed it from Nami's "I need stronger lightning" line in chapter 1004. So obviously that has to go. Also in that chapter, change the moment where Ulti gets knocked down and expresses pain from Nami's Thunder Lance. We're not going to flag lightning as the solution this early by even letting it do minor damage. Ulti shrugs it off, and the dialogue needs to go more like "none of our best moves even penetrate their scales... just focus on slowing them down and keeping them away from Tama!!" Basically, we want to say that this isn't a stand-and-fight scene for Nami and Usopp. Protecting the girl while she slings dumplings is their new mission. They're not even thinking about beating the dinosaur siblings anymore. Maybe people speculate that someone else can pick up the slack and save them, like Sanji.

    The first Nami/Usopp scenes in chapter 1011 are alright, with Usopp's big hits leaving Page One totally unfazed. It's from the end of this chapter through to the start of 1013 I think we need the biggest change.

    The choreography of the scene needs to be rearranged so that Ulti gets punched out by Big Mom, whether or not she uses CoC coating for it. Page One fills Ulti's role in the next few chapters. He attacks Komachiyo and hits Tama. At the end of 2012, Nami can't "stay here and crush [him]," unfortunately. We need to keep up the feeling that fighting these guys head on isn't what Nami and Usopp are meant to do. Maybe a line more like "I know I can't beat you, but I can't let you get any closer to Tama!" would fit the mood better.

    At this stage, we still think the dinosaurs are simply untouchable to Nami and Usopp, and all that can be done is buy time. Tama remains the focus. And then Big Mom nails Page One with the Maser Cannon and he goes down. Importantly, he stays down. We learn that Big Mom's lightning is strong enough the pierce dinosaur scales, fry them from the inside, and take them out of the fight once and for all. Nami expresses shock that any amount of lightning could actually manage that. Chapter 1013 continues as usual, with Zues reappearing and having his fakeout death.

    Fast forward to 1016 and it's not as much of a shock when Ulti comes back again, because she was only punched out, not electrolasered to death. But because Page One has stayed down, we know that a thunderbolt that gets under the skin is an effective attack on a tough dinosaur. Instead of Zeus expositing that one more lightning blast should do it, we need to give Nami agency in the conflict and put her in the problem solving role. She asks Zeus if he could do something like what Big Mom did if she helped him get some more charge. Nami does some weather tricks to charge the air with static and give Zeus a boost (since he can't team up with Prometheus and Napoleon like Hera did for her big lightning) and tells Usopp to get Tama clear, which he easily does. The rest of the chapter proceeds as normal, with the blast and redirection.

    I know that this version still isn't going to be what a lot of people were hoping for with a big, extended fight where Nami and Usopp solve problems for themselves and so on, but that's not my story to write. It couldn't be done without changing too many other things. I'm just trying to think of the best version of Oda's story. This way we downplay the idea of a direct fight early on. We add a bit of symmetry and consistency with both dinosaur siblings being taken down by supercharged lightning blasts rather than one being just punched and the other taking two finishing moves back to back. We make it feel like Nami saw what Big Mom did to KO one dinosaur and chose to team up with Zeus to imitate it on the remaining one, rather than have Zeus just tell her how to finish off one that was already injured. Little things, but they could make a big difference to what people expected the finale to be, setting it up to be what it actually is, and do so without dramatically changing the established length and pacing of the arc.

  3. #63
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pirate Island

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    There's quite a few things that I'd change but the thing that really stuck out to me is the bird cage on dress rosa. It was just utterly ridiculous.

    I mean, we have hundreds, if not thousands of strong fighters amongst which an admiral (who is non arguably stronger than Dofla) that has a gravity based Devil fruit so strong it can literally pull meteors from space and Zoro, who had just sliced up an entire city trying to push the bird cage back and not succeeding...
    I know Oda always has the limited time-fomula for added drama but he could've come up with something else, no? Insteead of the most broken power in the universe? Why doesn't Dofla just awake his DF and create miniature birdcages around his adveseries? There's no way to survive. Not even Big Mom or Kaidou with be able to survivie that.
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  4. #64

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Not even Big Mom or Kaidou with be able to survivie that.
    I reckon the bird cage was supposed to be like certain "cuffs". It could only be dealt with, with a devil fruit ability like Law's or advanced conquerors' haki, so Kaido and Big Mom would be able to destroy it.

    Not like it could hurt them to begin with though, and Big Mom could turn it into her homie.
    Last edited by Dany; June 21st, 2021 at 08:30 AM.

  5. #65
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pirate Island

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dany View Post
    I reckon the bird cage was supposed to be like certain "cuffs". It could only be dealt with, with a devil fruit ability like Law's or advanced conquerors' haki, so Kaido and Big Mom would be able to destroy it.

    Not like it could hurt them to begin with though, and Big Mom could turn it into her homie.
    You are right. There is indeed one fruit that is more OP than Doffy's and that is Big Mom's. What is her limit anyway? She could create anything...
    Anyway, the birdcage, to me, was utterly ridiculous and I can't get my head around why thousands of people trying to stop it didn't work yet it literally took no effort from Doffy.
    Are we supposed to believe a friggin' admiral, the strongest marine force, could be defeated by this? Also, Oda showing a DF awakening like this does show that at least for once, a possible luffy upgrade will not have a timelimit seeing apparantly it takes no effort. Which brings me to why didn't Doffy use it to begin with?
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  6. #66
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    In the slums of heaven... I'm renting out a condo in hell though.

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    There's quite a few things that I'd change but the thing that really stuck out to me is the bird cage on dress rosa. It was just utterly ridiculous.

    I mean, we have hundreds, if not thousands of strong fighters amongst which an admiral (who is non arguably stronger than Dofla) that has a gravity based Devil fruit so strong it can literally pull meteors from space and Zoro, who had just sliced up an entire city trying to push the bird cage back and not succeeding...
    I know Oda always has the limited time-fomula for added drama but he could've come up with something else, no? Insteead of the most broken power in the universe? Why doesn't Dofla just awake his DF and create miniature birdcages around his adveseries? There's no way to survive. Not even Big Mom or Kaidou with be able to survivie that.
    A broken DF power just needs a broken ability to beat it.

    Had Dofla did a personal birdcage around Kaido his skin would simply be too tough to tear through and the birdcage would break (cages can break). If he did it to Big Mom she'd probably eat the strings, I'm sure she possibly just as tough as Kaido with stronger teeth.

    I'm sure Fujitora could've stopped or broken the bird cage but the necessary amount of gravity needed would probably kill just as many ppl.
    Last edited by Zik; June 21st, 2021 at 12:23 PM.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
    Last.fm

  7. #67
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pirate Island

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    A broken DF power just needs a broken ability to beat it.

    Had Dofla did a personal birdcage around Kaido his skin would simply be too tough to tear through and the birdcage would break (cages can break). If he did it to Big Mom she'd probably eat the strings, I'm sure she possibly just as tough as Kaido with stronger teeth.

    I'm sure Fujitora could've stopped or broken the bird cage but the necessary amount of gravity needed would probably kill jist as many ppl.
    The fact that Fujitora of all people would need excessive power to break it while beeing an actualy navy admiral is the problem. Also, why would people get hirt? There's really nothing to base that statement on... To me at least, the bird cage was nigh indestructable and unstoppable.
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  8. #68
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    In the slums of heaven... I'm renting out a condo in hell though.

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    The fact that Fujitora of all people would need excessive power to break it while beeing an actualy navy admiral is the problem. Also, why would people get hirt? There's really nothing to base that statement on... To me at least, the bird cage was nigh indestructable and unstoppable.
    Unless he has some sort of precise to the decimal point accuracy to apply the gravity I imagine applying the gravity on the cage would effect the ppl inside it just as much. Especially if he was directing the gravity from above.

    The birdcage isn't stagnant. Its slowly closing in and is very strong. So he would need to apply enough gravity to stop it. I don't know if its necessarily an excessive amount of force.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
    Last.fm

  9. #69
    Desire's Bland Moon puffing.cinema's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    side by side with your tears

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Thanks for the post, Captain M.

    Regarding Fujitora, I think that Oda's point was that he could stop it, but if he did than the world would sing how the Marines beat the corrupted Shichibukai again; that's why he chose to let Luffy handle it, he bet on him, so that there's no way the WG could spin it in their favor.

    I think that what bothered me the most about the Birdcage is that it wasn't taxing on Doffy, and that we had in-universe reasons for it to be beatable (Law could easily teleport people outside of it, but he didn't because yes) but everyone went dumb for half a day for plot reasons.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Are we supposed to believe a friggin' admiral, the strongest marine force, could be defeated by this?
    Yeah, as mentioned above, Issho could probably deal with the bird cage but with his goal of ending the warlord system, it was better that he didn't.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Why doesn't Dofla just awake his DF and create miniature birdcages around his adveseries? There's no way to survive. Not even Big Mom or Kaidou with be able to survivie that.
    I always assumed Doflamingo has to be inside the cage, that's the only way it makes sense. It's incredibly powerful, but not useful in a direct fight

  12. #72
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pirate Island

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek View Post
    I always assumed Doflamingo has to be inside the cage, that's the only way it makes sense. It's incredibly powerful, but not useful in a direct fight
    Perhaps you are right but there's absolutely nothing to verify this. Also, I understand Issho wanted to ebolish the warlord system but my guess is he wants this because he has witnessed firsthand what disasters warlords can create or have created. Do you think Issho would really have risked innocent civilian lives? He doesn't seem the type to me but maybe I'm wrong about this. A giant cage of slicing death could have killed 1000's of innocents at any moment that it was shrinking so if Issho could've stopped at least the birdcage, he should've. Of course you could make the assumption that Issho has incredible CoO (which is most probably true) and could feel no civilians had died yet, so who knows really.

    This also makes me think Issho might have really big problems with the SH's down the line because, not only have they gone into an alliance with many supernova's whose morals are questionable (as far as we know) but they also have bonds with some of the former warlords (Jinbe, Crocodile*, Hancock, Mihawk). Crocodile being the odd one out because I think Luffy would rather have kicked his ass but was forced to work together with him.
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  13. #73

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Perhaps you are right but there's absolutely nothing to verify this.
    Yeah it's my headcanon, though the center of the cage moving towards Doflamingo while it's shrinking lends it a bit of credence to me.
    Hidden:


    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    Do you think Issho would really have risked innocent civilian lives?
    Yes, because he is a gambler. Bet big to win big. He bet on Luffy and he won.
    Last edited by Tarek; June 23rd, 2021 at 04:37 AM.

  14. #74
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Arizona

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    In an alternate One Piece, I would put forth the idea of Wano being fully in line with Kaido as an interesting scenario. Like, so there's no widespread pollution or famine, and there's still a Shogun and Daimyo, but the government is heavily militaristic, and the Shogun wants to open the borders when it's time....to conquer.

    So, now it's a bit different as while Luffy is still helping Momonosuke and stuff, the token Kingdom of the arc is fully against him.

  15. #75
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    In the slums of heaven... I'm renting out a condo in hell though.

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    In a completely different take where Ace and Whitebeard are still alive:

    28 tears ago, the Big Mom pirates come across a 12 year old Marsha D. Teach and he asks to join them thinking it'd be a good chance to come across the darkness devil fruit he wants. He lays low in Big Mom's crew, basically collecting candy for like any other subordinate (which leads to him being like a 100 lbs fatter) until one day Charlotte Cracker finds the yami yami no mi one day. Teach sees this and immediately kills him for it and defects from the Big Mom pirates.

    BB goes on to continue with his plan to become pirate king, so he sacks the Drum Kingdom as usual with his crew, and aims to beat up a 100 million bounty pirate in order to become a warlord. Naturally, Big Mom can't stand for this betrayal and sends Charlotte Katakuri to hunt down Blackbeard. Shanks tries to warn Big Mom about Teach but she sends his ass back to where he came from after he turns down the proposal of having babies with her and an alliance. BB still tries to go after Luffy in Mocktown.

    Ace doesn't have anybody to hunt for so he stays in the New World, Luffy almost gets caught by Smoker sooner in Alabasta cuz of this.

    Anyway, Katakuri finds BB and his crew on Banaro island, they fight. Katakuri beats the shit out of BB crew and almost kills BB but Teach endures enough pain and cancels out Kat's DF abilities and defeats him. After handing him over to the marines and becomes a warlord. This starts a different war with Big Mom, her crew and her "allies".

    Blackbeard struggles even more to recruit more nakama in Impel Down cuz Luffy wasn't already there to cause chaos. This ends up with guys like Crocodile and Jimbe (Bentham, Mr. 1, Iva, etc.) remaining in prison. Buggy and Mr. 3 join Blackbeard though lol.

    Same shit happens on Amazon Lily with Luffy and Hancock except he's trying to get her to being him back to Sabaody instead of ID. That's where Rayleigh convinces him to be trained for 2 years

    Katakuri ends up being killed. Big Mom kills Garp and a couple other vice admirals (takes their life force), gravely injures Sengoku and Sakazuki. Blackbeard shows up to gloat but runs away realizing he can't beat Big Mom so he plans on stealing Whitebeard's devil fruit.

    Sabo never remembers anything until I dunno maybe meeting Robin and learning about Luffy?

    Doffy gets his hands on the mochi DF and that's the prize in the Dressrosa colosseum tournament. So guess Sabo eats that?

    Sakazuki loses to Kuzan on Punk Hazard (due to previous Big Mom injuries).

    When the Whole Cake island arc comes around. Big Mom desperately wants it to happen after losing some power and taking a damage to her rep so she doesn't plan a double cross. So Sanji actually ends up married. Luffy and Bege still try to assassinate her and fail. Germa never turns on Big Mom so this makes the escape even harder (no Jimbe to help either). So Pedro dies, Carrot dies, Hancock dies (she shows up instead of Jimbe), etc.

    Only effects this would have on Wano is no Big Mom but hey maybe Ace finally convinces Whitebeard to avenge Oden.

    Probably forgetting a few other consequences to Ace and WB living.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
    Last.fm

  16. #76

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    I've been thinking what could be done to Oden's flashback to make me like it more and settled on these points.
    • Oden is thoroughly disliked for the feats he commits in the beginning. It wasn't until he took control over Kuri and turned it into a respectable region that he began earning adoration.
    • Whitebeard isn't the one who washed up on Wano's shores, Roger is. Resulting in Oden joining him directly with cat, dog and Izo.
    • They meet Whitebeard on the island and Oden briefly clashes with him before Roger takes over. Izo is the one to switch crews. He could've warmed up to Oden's dream of seeing the world and decides he want to find his own dream.
    • Oden never makes landfall at Wano when Toki gets sick, instead Cat and Dog escorts her there.
    I toyed with the idea of shortening the last part of the flashback, skipping the sequence where Oden plays the fool and having him rush towards Kaido with the scabbards immediately but losing due to numbers / hostages / barriers / old-lady shenanigans. The people would lose faith in him because they'd waited for the shogun's return for so long only for him to fail. The country goes even harder on their isolationist stance, arguing that if Oden had never left Wano then their misery would never have happened.

    But changing that part feels harder. There's things I dislike but it gets the job done. The bullet points feels easier, the story is more or less the same while my main grievances are covered.
    Wano Predictions
    Spoiler:


  17. #77
    Pirate Penguin Clessenur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    South Pole

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    I would rewrote the second half chapter 789 where Doflamingo puppeteers Rebecca against Violet.
    • Instead of Rebecca picking a real sword from somewhere she would have still kept her own sword.
    • Luffy wouldn't arrive on this chapter to save them.
    • Rebecca would hit Violet with her sword making it seems like she would die, but since the sword is BLUNT, it would result in no permanent damage.
    • This would make their pacifism count as something as it would actually save Violet's life.
    • Doflamingo would be seething on the next chapter when he sees that Violet is still alive and only then would Luffy arrive.
    "In mad world, only the mad are sane."

  18. #78

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Clessenur View Post
    I would rewrote the second half chapter 789 where Doflamingo puppeteers Rebecca against Violet.
    • Instead of Rebecca picking a real sword from somewhere she would have still kept her own sword.
    • Luffy wouldn't arrive on this chapter to save them.
    • Rebecca would hit Violet with her sword making it seems like she would die, but since the sword is BLUNT, it would result in no permanent damage.
    • This would make their pacifism count as something as it would actually save Violet's life.
    • Doflamingo would be seething on the next chapter when he sees that Violet is still alive and only then would Luffy arrive.
    This one's a great idea that would have done a lot to make Rebecca's arc feel like it came full circle. Dressrosa definitely needed something extra from her in the final moments of the battle, and this would have pulled it off with a lot less rewriting than any of my ideas. Good work!

  19. #79

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Clessenur View Post
    I would rewrote the second half chapter 789 where Doflamingo puppeteers Rebecca against Violet.
    • Instead of Rebecca picking a real sword from somewhere she would have still kept her own sword.
    • Luffy wouldn't arrive on this chapter to save them.
    • Rebecca would hit Violet with her sword making it seems like she would die, but since the sword is BLUNT, it would result in no permanent damage.
    • This would make their pacifism count as something as it would actually save Violet's life.
    • Doflamingo would be seething on the next chapter when he sees that Violet is still alive and only then would Luffy arrive.
    I agree with Captain M, this is a great idea and done with minimal changes to the story. I think it would go a long way to giving her a satisfying conclusion.
    Wano Predictions
    Spoiler:


  20. #80

    Default Re: Holding the Pen: a "What If?" thread

    I would get rid of Haki and every instance of "foreshadowing" it. It really ruins it for me and I think the only reason Oda put it in was because he realized during Skypiea that Logias are broken. I would also add more scenes of character's just hanging out on the Sunny and chilling not on the way to their next adventure they're just hanging out. Aside from post arc parties, how often do we see the Straw Hats just kick it? So I would try developing character relations more, like Franky teaching Usopp how to better fix the ship, or Brook telling Robin about how different the world was when he was alive. I would also change the ending to everyone gets the Laughtale and Johnny and Yosaku are waiting for them.

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts