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Thread: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

  1. #61

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    I always found it weird how he was referred to as being in a weakling trio, even though the potential for Monster Point to cause massive damage was always there. For some it may seem a little too out of field for Chopper to being going up against a 1 billion+ bounty antagonist, but that probably says more at how much untapped potential Chopper’s fighting style has had this entire time.
    The fact that he can actually hurt a tank like a Queen goes to show he’s no weakling

  2. #62

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    snip
    Nice post, but I think whoever wrote that is overlooking how Luffy was already damaging Kaido before this chapter, which should only be possible by bypassing the exterior.

  3. #63
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    I found this post by u/herrsebbe in Reddit that makes a lot of sense.

    Essentially, it appears we were all mistaken about what old man Hyogoro taugh Luffy. Armament Haki allows you to damage things, but the "internal damage" part is only possible throught Conqueror Haki. That's why Hyou says that Luffy breaking the shackles is something beyond his own abilities. Full post here:
    I think that theory is actually spot on. When Luffy first tried to replicate how Rayleigh and Sentomaru used Haki Hyogoro demonstrates that same skill. However when Luffy destroys the collars Hyogoro thinks to himself "He just used--!!" and follows it up with "It is in the midst of danger that power truly blossoms!!!" and "The power you just exhibited is already beyond any application of Ryuo I can teach you." So he actually established that this type of Haki essentially gets Saiyan-like powerups, making it completely natural for Luffy to realise it right here and now.

    Hyogoro also says this:



    We know exactly one type of Haki application that gets sent outward, CoC blasts.

    CoC has been outward/emission Haki all along and Oda has hidden the breadcrumbs in plain sight.


    Quote Originally Posted by K466 View Post
    Nice post, but I think whoever wrote that is overlooking how Luffy was already damaging Kaido before this chapter, which should only be possible by bypassing the exterior.
    Luffy could have used a weaker version of it, the same level that he already used unconsciously to remove the collars and Yamato's handcuffs. And now that he realizes the trick behind it he can consciously apply it to its full extent, leading to the barrier effect.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by K466 View Post
    Nice post, but I think whoever wrote that is overlooking how Luffy was already damaging Kaido before this chapter, which should only be possible by bypassing the exterior.
    But the point is that flowing CoA can damage Kaido, as the Scabbards showed, but the big damage attacks that come from the inside require CoC.
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    The big problem is that we already saw Luffy doing internal destruction with a tree and Yamato's handcuffs intentionally, leading people to ask why Kaido was suddenly an issue.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Hmm but Luffy used the internal destruction part on that tree, no?



    So wasn't that with CoA?

  7. #67
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Okay, I'm confused. But it's 2am here so that's not surprising. Time to go to bed and think about it tomorrow

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    The big problem is that we already saw Luffy doing internal destruction with a tree and Yamato's handcuffs intentionally, leading people to ask why Kaido was suddenly an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibersk Esto View Post
    Hmm but Luffy used the internal destruction part on that tree, no?

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...f2749982c66da0

    So wasn't that with CoA?
    My take is that Luffy was misunderstanding what he was actually doing. The tree was one try after several days, the cuffs were him repeating something he did before. But Hyogoro made it clear that he himself couldn't do such things (or else Hyogoro would be able to take off his own cuffs, as he was shown capable of using advanced CoA).

    Oda needs to clarify a lot of things, but I think the theory is sound.
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    The fact that he can actually hurt a tank like a Queen goes to show he’s no weakling
    Yep, either Chopper is capable or he isn’t, and I won’t hesitate to give credit where it’s due, regardless of what the situation was like in the past.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Yea I dunno about that interpretation given stuff like the tree and handcuffs.

    Also if we stick with reading it that way, would that mean that Sabo has CoC then given his destruction of the Colosseum?

  11. #71

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    After some re-reading I noticed there are two types of advacned armament. First level is attacking enemy without making contact, which is what Hyogoro and Sentomaru displayed. Second level is destroying things from inside, which is what Scabbards and Luffy displayed to damage Kaido.

    So maybe Luffy was only using second advacned armament all this time on the rooftop, and just happened to fully utilize first level of armament, at the same time as he learned the advanced type of Hashoshoku. That's my understanding of the whole haki confusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    Yea I dunno about that interpretation given stuff like the tree and handcuffs.

    Also if we stick with reading it that way, would that mean that Sabo has CoC then given his destruction of the Colosseum?
    That was just him finding the breakpoint of the collateral damages done by Burgess to the colosseum.

  12. #72
    Discovered Stowaway astagadragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    So Luffy already has one leg in the top tier world of OP, only needs awakening to reach the endgame. Zoro too, if he can imbue his attacks with CoC, that's it.

    Meanwhile, Law without advanced CoA and even CoC could hurt Kaido, I guess Ope-ope is that OP lol.

    Next chapter I guess we're back to switching POV around, need to see the progress of crew's fight with the Tobi Roppo and Calamities.
    "The rain has ceased, and we have been graced by another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it." - Elidibus

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    And the other point of contention here is the Conqueror's Haki revelation. I think CoC worked better when it mostly was just a fodder filter and a way for top level fighters to dickmeasure about their ambitions before they smack each other around. Sure, it's always had a physical component - Shanks' haki warped and broke the Moby Dick's deck; Luffy and Katakuri's combined use cracked the floor and shattered pillars in the Mirroworld; and Usopp's lie about his haki causing earthquakes was broadly deemed believable - but this is the first time we've seen it used directly for offence.

    I think they way the powerup is portrayed muddies the water a lot with Luffy's last powerup - the haki projection and injection he learned from Hyogoro. We know Luffy picked that up because we saw him destroy the collars, blow up the tree before the raid and do substantial harm to Kaido with his regular attacks, but the dialogue here feels like the move only truly clicks when you add offensive CoC to the mix as well. Even though we know they're two different things, Oda hasn't made it distinct enough where CoA ends and CoC begins, or if Luffy's using just CoC instead of both at once, or any other way it might be, which makes the initial advanced armament powerup feel a little cheaper. And it feels like the highest level techniques are only for the one in a million with the special haki (plus training to be one of the "handful of the very strongest" on top of that). We've yet to see anyone without CoC do the clash-without-touching thing.

    It's definitely always been a little bit of a thing that Luffy was born special (CoC, Voice of All Things, Will of the D, liniage of the Navy's hero and the Revolutionary), and that's not inherently a bad thing, but it has so rarely felt like those factors are so much of a leg up over any other pirate trying to get by on guts alone.

    There's definitely more we have to learn about all of this, and a few quick remarks in the middle of combat aren't the best way to learn about a new skill, so I'm going to reserve my final judgement on it until we get some post-battle or SBS elaboration. We don't know how much of an edge CoC gives over reaching advanced CoA the hard way. We also don't know if there's a secret interaction between CoC and CoO as well, which would at least make things feel better thought out than a straight last-minute offensive boost. But for now, it's not sitting quite right with me.

    And that's the chapter. The final panel is a great callback to a highlight from earlier in the arc and should definitely be remembered as the moment there was no longer any possible doubt about the raid succeeding and Kaido going down, at least from a narrative standpoint. But as climactic as all this feels, there's no way this is the final stage of the fight. Even though we've had the traditional small fakeout defeat for Luffy and a come from behind with a new technique. There's too much still happening down below to wrap up the main event. The pendulum has to swing back Kaido's way at least one more time. Which means there's probably a more substantial near-death moment for some more new skills (probably a new Gear form implementing the new haki) for Luffy at some point in the future, but probably after another status update from the characters fighting .
    Yes that part was a big contentious in the spoiler thread too. The original sin that makes conqueror haki birth given only a chose few get, makes this power up a bit bitter. if it was a haki that is obtained thanks to your ambition and struggle toward the top, it would make everything more simple and acceptable. Even Zoro awaking it this late in the game would make more sense.

    And i agree that this haki being just a better version of the armament haki is really not satisfying. Finally, it is shown to us the fighting application of this kind of haki. Honestly, it is a bit late and it should have been explained or hinted long ago.
    Mihawk and Rayleigh were really bad teachers in the end :-)

  14. #74

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    I think that theory is actually spot on. When Luffy first tried to replicate how Rayleigh and Sentomaru used Haki Hyogoro demonstrates that same skill. However when Luffy destroys the collars Hyogoro thinks to himself "He just used--!!" and follows it up with "It is in the midst of danger that power truly blossoms!!!" and "The power you just exhibited is already beyond any application of Ryuo I can teach you." So he actually established that this type of Haki essentially gets Saiyan-like powerups, making it completely natural for Luffy to realise it right here and now.

    Hyogoro also says this:
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...429ba19784.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0b5122b726.jpg

    We know exactly one type of Haki application that gets sent outward, CoC blasts.

    CoC has been outward/emission Haki all along and Oda has hidden the breadcrumbs in plain sight.



    Luffy could have used a weaker version of it, the same level that he already used unconsciously to remove the collars and Yamato's handcuffs. And now that he realizes the trick behind it he can consciously apply it to its full extent, leading to the barrier effect.
    So does this mean Hyogoro has Conqueror’s too?

  15. #75

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    I found this post by u/herrsebbe in Reddit that makes a lot of sense.

    Essentially, it appears we were all mistaken about what old man Hyogoro taugh Luffy. Armament Haki allows you to damage things, but the "internal damage" part is only possible throught Conqueror Haki. That's why Hyou says that Luffy breaking the shackles is something beyond his own abilities. Full post here:
    How did Luffy then break Yamato's handcuffs? He used what Hyo taught him consciously.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    At the end of Wano, Law will look at his own crew and think how there are two Conqueror Haki users on the Straw Hat crew and think "How the hell do I beat that?".

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Also the chapter is also available in Portuguese.

    Maneiro.
    Law will definitely have a story to tell. He’s in awe watching Zoro’s ashura and seeing Luffy kick Kaido butt without touching him. The guy is seeing wonders right in front of his own eyes.
    IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU....

  17. #77

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by blindjustice View Post
    How did Luffy then break Yamato's handcuffs? He used what Hyo taught him consciously.
    I didn’t see any aura, so I’m not sure if Conqueror’s Haki was used here.


  18. #78

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    I didn’t see any aura, so I’m not sure if Conqueror’s Haki was used here.

    https://i.ibb.co/W6p1jsK/59819-D7-A-...5-A83-E3-F.jpg
    So if we assume the theory posted that CoC infusing is what causing internal damage, then these set of panels directly contradict that theory, though it was a very plausible one.

  19. #79
    Discovered Stowaway astagadragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Luffy explained himself that he used advanced CoA even since he punched Kaido back then in chapter 1,000, but the attacks are still too shallow. Hence CoC coating, to increase his firepower even more to penetrate Kaido's CoC defense.

    Zoro unconsciously imbues his Ashura with CoC so he really damaging Kaido. As far as we know Zoro couldn't use advanced CoA right?

    As far as I understand...

    Advanced CoA: increases attack range, internal damage

    Advanced CoC: even more increases attack range, even more damage, black lightning effect
    "The rain has ceased, and we have been graced by another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it." - Elidibus

  20. #80

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by astagadragon View Post
    Luffy explained himself that he used advanced CoA even since he punched Kaido back then in chapter 1,000, but the attacks are still too shallow. Hence CoC coating, to increase his firepower even more to penetrate Kaido's CoC defense.

    Zoro unconsciously imbues his Ashura with CoC so he really damaging Kaido. As far as we know Zoro couldn't use advanced CoA right?

    As far as I understand...

    Advanced CoA: increases attack range, internal damage

    Advanced CoC: even more increases attack range, even more damage, black lightning effect
    Yeah makes sense. Luffy was able to damage the tree and break the cuffs without using CoC. He also hurt Kaido making him bleed without using CoC. But kaido protected himself with CoC and CoA so the attacks were shallow. Adding CoC on top of the CoA makes the attacks more potent. This is the best explanation I am going ahead with for now.

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