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Thread: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

  1. #41

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Damn, what a great chapter! It's consistent with Luffy's general progressions throughout the series that not only can he take the same hit as he did before, but now he can get up from it. It would be lame if he didn't get stronger and more able to "bounce back." Like others, I'm hoping this revelation about Haki from Luffy will lead to him being able to handle the types of hits he got from Kaido last chapter (that made him blow on his arm) and from Katakuri in their fight. I'm so happy I don't read spoilers because I totally thought Kaido was just going to whip everyone ass half way through and wasn't at all expecting Luffy to get up. Great work, Oda.



    That gives me hope that he'll get COC too, but not much of it.
    I want to believe Sanji will have Conqueror's Haki. I actually think there's a good chance Usopp might. Usopp's entire character arc sort of hinges on him eventually becoming a brave warrior. When that happens, I could see his dormant conqueror haki awakening at last.

    I don't know if Sanji will, but I hope so.
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  2. #42

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Sibersk Esto View Post
    He was knocked out, time passed with the Zoro/Law scuffle, and he got back up. Luffy's just using the technique he's been practicing for half the arc. This is also the point in the fight where the bad guy really starts showing off because he and Luffy are somewhat on evil footing, considering that Oda likes to milk the threat up until the very last moment of the arc. Not to mention how many extenuating factors exist that Oda has to deal with (Yamato, Momo, Big Mom's new homie, the scabbards and the strawhat fights)

    I wouldn't sweat it.
    Point is whatever Kaido does Luffy will get back up because hes the protagonist. Consistency be damned. No matter what Kaido does now, he finished. We can as well call Luffy the strongest in the world, Oda should just skip his fight with Blackbeard and the WG. Nobody can challenge him


  3. #43

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Luffy almost never finishes the big boss before the rest of the Straw Hats beat there baddies, so I think Oda will switch focus to them soon

  4. #44

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Luffy almost never finishes the big boss before the rest of the Straw Hats beat there baddies, so I think Oda will switch focus to them soon
    I agree it would feel more awkward for Oda to show Luffy defeating Kaido before finishing the other fights going on like with Black Maria, Ulti, and Queen.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Point is whatever Kaido does Luffy will get back up because hes the protagonist. Consistency be damned. No matter what Kaido does now, he finished. We can as well call Luffy the strongest in the world, Oda should just skip his fight with Blackbeard and the WG. Nobody can challenge him
    There consistency when it comes to luffy get back up after taking major attack , hell it even happen with Kaido vs the scabbards when Kaido get knock down .
    It's not like he even get up right away since Kaido and others were doing a whole bunch of stuff before he get back up .
    Also of course Luffy will win it's just a question of how like all fights .
    TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .

  6. #46

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Logia View Post
    Bless, Asura has not been forgotten.
    I dont think Oda is ever quick to forget about something that emphasizes on coolness. lol

  7. #47

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Point is whatever Kaido does Luffy will get back up because he’s the protagonist. Consistency be damned. No matter what Kaido does now, he finished. We can as well call Luffy the strongest in the world, Oda should just skip his fight with Blackbeard and the WG. Nobody can challenge him
    Kaidou has been tangoing with several supernovas. He has beaten Luffy to the ground several times now. Luffy would be dead now if not for help. This is obvious. Luffy was not strong enough to deal with Doffy at the time. He needed help to recover. That did not place him on equal footing with Doflamingo, and it does not place him on equal footing with Kaidou now - even with the power ups.

    When Luffy can go toe-to-toe with Blackbeard without it being a tag team - then he`s one of the strongest.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Point is whatever Kaido does Luffy will get back up because hes the protagonist. Consistency be damned. No matter what Kaido does now, he finished. We can as well call Luffy the strongest in the world, Oda should just skip his fight with Blackbeard and the WG. Nobody can challenge him
    If Luffy has a buffer period after taking a hit where an ally stalls then sure, he'll get back up. Especially after something as straightforward as a club hit. Point is there's still so many things left to do in the arc that Oda will likely have Kaido do something to complicate things that Luffy will still have trouble with.

  9. #49
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Point is whatever Kaido does Luffy will get back up because he’s the protagonist. Consistency be damned. No matter what Kaido does now, he finished. We can as well call Luffy the strongest in the world, Oda should just skip his fight with Blackbeard and the WG. Nobody can challenge him
    You have been overreacting for over half a year now in which every time a chapter ends with the protagonists getting the upper hand you always say that the villain is doomed to fall within a few chapters. Kaido will respond in the next chapter, he will be fine for a while longer and he will challenge Luffy like no other. Is Luffy going to win? Of course, anyone who knows this series well enough knows how this is going to pan out - though I wouldn't go so far as to say that this current battle will result in his defeat. Honestly if you are going to perpetuate this mindset despite Oda constantly proving you wrong ever since this war started then you are better off taking a break and reading this all in one go.


    Spoiler:

  10. #50

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    I agree it would feel more awkward for Oda to show Luffy defeating Kaido before finishing the other fights going on like with Black Maria, Ulti, and Queen.
    I wonder what order well get the battles in

    I still hope well get a Sanji and Marco aerial battle against King and Queen (with his super stretchy/cyborg head that can shoot laser beams it basically still counts as aerial)

  11. #51

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    I wonder what order we’ll get the battles in

    I still hope we’ll get a Sanji and Marco aerial battle against King and Queen (with his super stretchy/cyborg head that can shoot laser beams it basically still counts as aerial)
    I’m honestly interested in Chopper going up against Queen all the way, in light of seeing others say that only Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji should take on higher bounty enemies.
    Last edited by electricmastro; April 11th, 2021 at 03:09 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    I’m honestly interested in Chopper going up against up against Queen all the way, in light of seeing others say that only Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji should take on higher bounty enemies.
    Chopper getting time to shine would be great! I hope he gets a real bounty at the end of this arc, it was funny at first but now I want to see him recognized as the threat he is

  13. #53

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Chopper getting time to shine would be great! I hope he gets a real bounty at the end of this arc, it was funny at first but now I want to see him recognized as the threat he is
    I always found it weird how he was referred to as being in a weakling trio, even though the potential for Monster Point to cause massive damage was always there. For some it may seem a little too out of field for Chopper to be going up against a 1 billion+ bounty antagonist, but that probably says more at how much untapped potential Chopper’s fighting style has had this entire time.
    Last edited by electricmastro; April 11th, 2021 at 05:51 PM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Phenomenal chapter, each rooftop chapter just seems to be better than the last

    It doesn't matter how obvious in hindsight Zoro getting CoC, actually seeing it confirmed , much less right after he scarred Zoro, ust felt so surreal. Same for seeing Asura exactly 500 chapters later. Likewise, Luffy finally figuring out how to truly injure Kaido was a great moment, that also recontexualizes several of the past Haki clashes we've seen in the past. I like how it mirrors Enies Lobby, where Luffy's initial loss to CP9 is what allowed him to come up with Gears. Likewise, Kaido inadvertently showed Luffy what Conqueror's Haki is truly capable. The choreography from that point onwards was just beautiful, that uppercut in particular is easily one of the best panels in the arc.

  15. #55
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Said it in the spoiler thread, for those complaining about Luffy getting back up and "shrugging" off Kaido's attacks.

    Just pretend this was the final panel on the last page



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  16. #56

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    Phenomenal chapter, each rooftop chapter just seems to be better than the last

    It doesn't matter how obvious in hindsight Zoro getting CoC, actually seeing it confirmed , much less right after he scarred Zoro, ust felt so surreal. Same for seeing Asura exactly 500 chapters later. Likewise, Luffy finally figuring out how to truly injure Kaido was a great moment, that also recontexualizes several of the past Haki clashes we've seen in the past. I like how it mirrors Enies Lobby, where Luffy's initial loss to CP9 is what allowed him to come up with Gears. Likewise, Kaido inadvertently showed Luffy what Conqueror's Haki is truly capable. The choreography from that point onwards was just beautiful, that uppercut in particular is easily one of the best panels in the arc.
    It’s funny, because I’ve seen some say it was “obvious” yet it was never really something I actively thought about. I suppose I should think more about it, seeing as how Zoro said he wasn’t familiar with what Kaido was talking about, so that might go as far as to indicate that Mihawk might not have told Zoro about this approach to using Haki, even though they say it’s “obvious” the strongest swordsman should know about using Conqueror’s Haki as a coating.
    Last edited by electricmastro; April 19th, 2021 at 07:48 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    It’s funny, because I’ve seen some say it was “obvious” yet it was never really something I actively thought about. I suppose I should think about more about it, seeing as how Zoro said he wasn’t familiar with what Kaido was talking about, so that might go as far as to indicate that Mihawk might not have told Zoro about this approach to using Haki, even though they say it’s “obvious” the strongest swordsman should know about using Conqueror’s Haki as a coating.
    It was always on my mind, especially after Katakuri. But at the same time I thought it was odd that he hadn't unlocked it yet given that he can proficiently use other forms of Haki.

    But I guess Zoro is just a late bloomer when all is said and done. Hell even now it's not like it's fully awakened. As for Zoro saying he didn't know, yea I just took it as him meaning he's only aware of CoC as that thing people do to take down fodder. All this extra stuff, including what Luffy just did, is all brand new to the Strawhats.

  18. #58
    Desire's Bland Moon puffing.cinema's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    Asura is a cool technique but i'm kinda mad at how lazy Oda is when portraying it.

    Zoro's pose this chapter is virtually the same as the one he made when used Asura on PX-4 in Saboady. there's nothing in the picture to indicate what exactly is the difference between "Makyusen" and "Deadman's Gamble" besides, maybe, CoC.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    I found this post by u/herrsebbe in Reddit that makes a lot of sense.

    Essentially, it appears we were all mistaken about what old man Hyogoro taugh Luffy. Armament Haki allows you to damage things, but the "internal damage" part is only possible throught Conqueror Haki. That's why Hyou says that Luffy breaking the shackles is something beyond his own abilities. Full post here:

    When 1010 came out I, like many others, found the development of Luffy channeling Supreme King haki insanely hype, but also a good bit confusing. I could not fully make sense of why Supreme King haki was suddenly being used as synonymous to powerful Armament haki, coating oneself for defense and powering up one's punches or weapons.

    Then when I read official translation however, something dawned on me that I had to go back and check. Having done this, I now think we (or at least I) may have misunderstood what advanced Armament haki is, and so I'd like to go over an interpretation of the text that I found to better fit with the sudden development of Luffy learning to infuse his attacks with Supreme King haki.

    This is based in the Viz translation, which diverges in some ways from the TCB one. For one thing there is no mention of "coating" oneself in Supreme King haki. Luffy only remarks on "infusing objects" with it. The Viz translation may for all I know be in the wrong. I don't know Japanese. Another important aspect is Hyogoro talking specifically about Luffy's form of haki in the teaching flashbacks, not haki in general. He says "The haki you wield penetrates and destroys the enemy from the inside". This one line got me thinking, and so I went back to volumes 93-94 to go over the introduction of advanced armament.

    Indeed, the order goes:

    1). Luffy knocks out some fodder in the ring using Supreme King haki. Hyogoro witnesses it and Queen calls it such.

    2). Hyogoro notices Luffy using their fight for survival for training. He asks what he's trying to do, and Luffy explains that he thinks using haki without touching his foes is key to defeating Kaido. Hyogoro picks up on his words and shows that he knows how to do that. Nothing is said about destroying enemies or objects from within.

    3). Big Mom shows up and Luffy is forced by circumstance to destroy the collars.

    4). Hyogoro reacts in awe. He thinks to himself: "Straw Hat fellow, the power you just exhibited... is already beyond any application of ryou I can teach you." Soon after he explains to Luffy: "All that I can teach you of ryou... or what you call haki... is that which covers the outside. It can be used for defense, like invisible armor... or it can be converted to offensive us to great effect!! But... when you go one level beyond that... the haki you wield can penetrate the enemy's interior and destroy them from inside. [...] Those steel collars were destroyed from the inside by your haki. You can already do it!! You already know how to infuse yourself with outward haki...!! But you do it unconsciously."

    I believe what is being conveyed here is that Supreme King haki is what can destroy from within. When thought of this way, the language fits for both the way it makes weaker foes pass out and the way it breaks down solid matter.

    Advanced haki usage would here be the ability to channel it outwards at all. For armament purposes, this lets you block and attack without touching an enemy, whereas Supreme King haki would let you bypass defenses and "destroy from within".

    This could have all been contradicted in the manga already, or might be contradicted in the future. However it's something I noticed that makes the 1010 moment make much more sense to me. It makes the power-up less dramatic, and rather comes down to the logical realization of Luffy's that he should be channeling his Supreme King color rather than his Armament color to get at Kaido, while still doing what he was already doing.

    So up until now, Luffy would've only been hitting Kaido with powerful punches flowing out from his body, onto Kaido, who was probably protecting himself with powerful defensive haki to match. Now that he figured out to use Supreme King haki, he's instead hitting him just as strong as before, and on top of that channeling haki to bypass armament defenses and hurt him from within.

    What do you guys think? Does this make sense? For those of you who speak Japanese, does this interpretation lend itself to the original text?

    Or worse, was this already commonly understood to be the case and I was just late to the punch?
    Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Chapter 1,010: Color of the Supreme King

    This is a hell of chapter with some big hype behind it. Everyone here mainly for the fights is eating well. I had a great time reading it, but there were two little things that didn't sit spectacularly with me. But I wanna get some miscellaneous thoughts out of the way first.

    I enjoyed Law saying outright he'd consider the plan a failure if anyone died. This has always been his character, but as recently as this arc he still trying to project this edgy persona saying anyone who got captured should be prepared for torture and death (before running off to sacrifice himself for the first people who got captured).

    Big Mom and Prometheus cutting Zeus off confirms more than ever that he's going to make it back to Nami and probably be a permanent part of her arsenal.

    I don't think Kid and Killer taking on Big Mom is the final matchup for her. It doesn't feel climactic. It doesn't feel personal. Kid's had his skirmishes in Big Mom's terrirory, sure, but that doesn't feel like enough. There'll be something else here, I'm sure of it. Maybe the currently-opponentless Sanji will show up and get a chance to ask her what she ddi with his family. Or after their individual matchups, the Strawhats come in to challenge her as a group, proving they're still in the ballpark of what Luffy can take on.

    Zoro brings out the long-neglected fan favourite Asura, wounds Kaido and is all-but confirmed to have Conqueror's Haki. It's an amazing showcase for a character who's had some great moments but hasn't really been challenged since the timeskip. Prior to this, I could have gone either way on the theories about him having the haki, so I appreciate that Zoro seems to feel the same way. Being the lucky one in a million with the special haki is immeterial to him and his goals. He'd be shooting for the top one way or the other.

    As good as the last sequence is, it's where I have some misgivings about the chapter. Is it just me, or would the moment where Luffy stands up again have worked much better if we'd had the panels showing Luffy was unconscious in the last chapter, directly after Ragnaraku? Without seeing how much damage he actually took at the time, I didn't feel all that much tension about Luffy's status and whether or not he'd be up again this chapter. Even accounting for haki, enduring big hits and bouncing back is Luffy's whole deal. If Oda wants me to think Luffy's in trouble after an attack, he's gotta sell it a tiny bit more. Even just that one whited-out-eyes panel is enough to send the message, but not if it comes up this late.

    If we'd had it last week, not only do we get to spend a whole week speculating on when or how he'll get back up, or if he'll need medical intervention to get a second wind, but having Luffy be definitively down before it starts would make the operation to remove Big Mom feel all the more critical. Luffy having been down for a week would make Zoro and Law's last stand feel even more desperate. We feel more satisfied when Luffy finally does get up because we've had to wait all that much longer for it.

    But maybe I'm overthinking things. I haven't done a proper reread of Onigashima since it started so I'm only taking about the week to week pacing. It'll probably feel better on the volume reread, as is often the case. When you're doing these things a chapter at a time, it's easy to loose track of the forest among the trees.

    And the other point of contention here is the Conqueror's Haki revelation. I think CoC worked better when it mostly was just a fodder filter and a way for top level fighters to dickmeasure about their ambitions before they smack each other around. Sure, it's always had a physical component - Shanks' haki warped and broke the Moby Dick's deck; Luffy and Katakuri's combined use cracked the floor and shattered pillars in the Mirroworld; and Usopp's lie about his haki causing earthquakes was broadly deemed believable - but this is the first time we've seen it used directly for offence.

    I think they way the powerup is portrayed muddies the water a lot with Luffy's last powerup - the haki projection and injection he learned from Hyogoro. We know Luffy picked that up because we saw him destroy the collars, blow up the tree before the raid and do substantial harm to Kaido with his regular attacks, but the dialogue here feels like the move only truly clicks when you add offensive CoC to the mix as well. Even though we know they're two different things, Oda hasn't made it distinct enough where CoA ends and CoC begins, or if Luffy's using just CoC instead of both at once, or any other way it might be, which makes the initial advanced armament powerup feel a little cheaper. And it feels like the highest level techniques are only for the one in a million with the special haki (plus training to be one of the "handful of the very strongest" on top of that). We've yet to see anyone without CoC do the clash-without-touching thing.

    It's definitely always been a little bit of a thing that Luffy was born special (CoC, Voice of All Things, Will of the D, liniage of the Navy's hero and the Revolutionary), and that's not inherently a bad thing, but it has so rarely felt like those factors are so much of a leg up over any other pirate trying to get by on guts alone.

    There's definitely more we have to learn about all of this, and a few quick remarks in the middle of combat aren't the best way to learn about a new skill, so I'm going to reserve my final judgement on it until we get some post-battle or SBS elaboration. We don't know how much of an edge CoC gives over reaching advanced CoA the hard way. We also don't know if there's a secret interaction between CoC and CoO as well, which would at least make things feel better thought out than a straight last-minute offensive boost. But for now, it's not sitting quite right with me.

    And that's the chapter. The final panel is a great callback to a highlight from earlier in the arc and should definitely be remembered as the moment there was no longer any possible doubt about the raid succeeding and Kaido going down, at least from a narrative standpoint. But as climactic as all this feels, there's no way this is the final stage of the fight. Even though we've had the traditional small fakeout defeat for Luffy and a come from behind with a new technique. There's too much still happening down below to wrap up the main event. The pendulum has to swing back Kaido's way at least one more time. Which means there's probably a more substantial near-death moment for some more new skills (probably a new Gear form implementing the new haki) for Luffy at some point in the future, but probably after another status update from the characters fighting inside.

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