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Thread: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

  1. #41

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    The way I see it, when Kaido eats dirt at last Momo will be the one and only person in the entire country who has any chance of landing the island safely. (seeing how they share draconic powers) (Fujitora might have been able to help if he was there, but I digress. Point is, even in the New World there aren't many who can steer a whole island across the sky without thoroughly destroying it in the process). Which may help tremendously in both redeeming the Kozuki clan in the eyes of Wano citizens and establishing himself as someone worthy of their respect.
    There's no question that Momo is stopping the island. Mainly I wonder how much of a leap it will take to make it work. Having him suddenly become something Kaido's size, with Kaido's kind of power, feels like a bit much. Using the genetic match his dragon has to Kaido's would be a good explanation for him being able to hijack Kaido's flame clouds and wrestle control away in battle of wills or something, if I had to spitball a more logical way to do it.

  2. #42
    aka demonicpoodle Kaworu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    So I'll start with Kaido's hybrid, which is surprisingly not talked about. I'm apparently not supposed to like it? I do though, it's an elegant mix between both forms and will look great colored. And believe me, after Boundman, I'm much more interested in what a form can DO rather than its looks.
    I think with Hybrid we'll get the more "mythologized" Kaido in the fandom, the one people had in their headcanons that's nearly a god.
    I think we'll get a hopeless situation for a while where even Luffy thinks "damn, IS he human? Nothing's working".
    With how Zoan Awakenings work, I'm going to assume Kaido's already awakened and just hasn't mentioned it, so I don't think we'll get one final form.
    Though I could be misunderstanding Zoan Awakenings. I know they're associated with high regen which he's demonstrated.

    Kanjuro and Orochi, I wanted both alive so this is great. There's a difference between "the bird guy should definitely have died from that point blank explosion" and "the guy who can draw anything should have definitely died."
    I was always of the common opinion Kanjuro would come back due to the weird offscreen death, just Oda trickery.

    I know WE know why they're alive, but still, for impact's sake and not taking us out of the fiction's sake, it'd be wise for him to quickly explain why they're alive to less attentive readers who may not know why. I really don't want a situation where they're walking around for 10 chapters and it's still not explained in-universe.

    The Jack fight also gets a much better conclusion now. Will Neko join too? If Sanji joins there, will it take away from the impact? Kinda but it may be needed.

    Also I find it funny we saw Kaido's hybrid before every Calamity hybrid.

    I see them rarely mentioned, this is a good chance to say the Numbers will come back, I think, for the same reason Kanjuro/Orochi did. There's a REASON they got defeated so quickly, that reason being they were drunk. So if we see a sober version of them soon, the lower ranks of the alliance are in trouble. And the thing with Kaido's crew is they just keep getting back up, it reminds me of Luffy's resilience.
    Last edited by Kaworu; March 29th, 2021 at 08:36 AM.
    Croc or Enel would never.
    Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post

    I know OP is his life's work but maybe he could have saved the Samurai epic as a one year story he did after he finishes OP. Woulda come out cleaner that way AND cut OP's length down signficantly.
    One piece will not finish, it will drag on like Dragon ball.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Having him suddenly become something Kaido's size, with Kaido's kind of power, feels like a bit much.
    100% agreed. Since the very beginning Momo has been this very small boy to whom the world does no favors ; he is often afraid and powerless yet shows courage when it truly matters. So I would find it counter-productive if he was suddenly given a free pass to become this huge creature none can resist and achieves a DF mastery that took Kaido several decades. I will be more than happy if he stays that little boy and performs just the one feat of somehow taking control of the flames, just like he was briefly able to give Zunisha an order.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    It's absolutely the case that Oda wanted to do a Samurai story on its own terms. But was also already doing One Piece so it just got wedged in as a subplot and the whole thing is suffering for it now.

    Same way Dresserossa was like 4 different arcs crammed into one and that made it a mess.

    I know OP is his life's work but maybe he could have saved the Samurai epic as a one year story he did after he finishes OP. Woulda come out cleaner that way AND cut OP's length down signficantly.
    At this point, Odaís dedicated half of the mangaís story on the scabbards and Wano in general in some way through buildup, so itís hardly been wedged in. They were always going to lose to Kaido and defer it to Luffy, so Iím interested in where their stories end with that part out of the way.

  6. #46
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Begs the question of how many uses can you get out of an emotion. Like remember those old rom com climaxes where the guy chases the girl to the airport and declares his love? Imagine if he did that twice in the last 45 minutes wouldn't the second time by default yield diminishing returns? And if you end up in a place where you have to have your story unfold in a repetitive way is that not a show of poor planning on your end?
    The equivalent to what happened with Kanjuro and the Scabbards would be if that scene of the guy chasing the girl to the airport and declaring his love would have been offscreened and also, instead of the guy himself declaring his love, his best friend would have done so for him. I'd say the audience would not except that as a climactic and emotionally satisfying climax to the love story.

    If we already had an onscreen fight against Kanjuro and if Kinemon had been heavily involved in that fight , then yeah, I'd agree it would be repetitive and unnecessary to do the exact same thing again. But the fact is that Oda only did the bare minimum with that. It was not very satisfying and a lot of people complained about Oda doing such a disservice to what so far had been a pretty effective and fun villain.

    I guess it's arguable if Oda did a very good job of smoothly removing Kanjuro (and Orochi) from the story for a while to give their characters the resolution they deserve later on in the story, but bringing them back in general? There is no argument for me that it was best choice story-wise, and certainly better than just removing their characters from the board in such an unsatisfactory manner in order to cut corners.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    It does explain why Oda rushed and glossed over those things. he knew they were coming back later and he'd give them time then and it was just clearing the deck for now. Same way he completely hosed Nami and Usopp in their non-fights.

    Does make one wonder a bit about the Sulong army, that being considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sibersk Esto View Post
    At this point, Odaís dedicated half of the mangaís story on the scabbards and Wano in general in some way through buildup, so itís hardly been wedged in.
    And if Oda HADN'T done that One Piece might be almost done by now. Thats a huge batch of characters and a lot of long running plot to juggle. All for the sake of getting it to this point and then just having themm be side characters in their own story?

    It's not super satisfying, their story is crushed by Luffy's... while in turn Luffy's (and Kaidous) stories are getting cluttered up by Wano stuff.


    At some point Oda decided "this is the only big story I'm ever going to do, so I'll do everything I ever wanted to do in it" and that's commendable and fine... but he's burning out at the finish line as a result and rushing and off-panneling things and he's striving to wrap it all up in five years when its not possibly going to fit well into that ammount of time.

    Same way the length of the story explosed when he created 7 warlords, or 9 supernovas. He added huge ammounts of big characters that would all demand lots of screentime for years to come. The story is overall richer for it, I'm glad those parts are there... but if he'd bee able to help himself, and show a little more restraint 10 years ago, the overall story progression might be in better shape now and he might not be in such a hurry to finish.

    But more importantly, the two completely seperate unconnected stories would have way more room to breathe and focus. Just like Dreserossa where the Tontotta story, the toy story, and the colloseum story all overlapped and made a mess that would have been alleviated if it'd just been broken into two seperate parts.
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  8. #48
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    On its own terms the samurai scene is pretty good I think, but it still begs the question of why Kanjuro had to "die" in the first place. Like, if the main draw of Kanjuro being alive is that he gets to have an emotional showdown with Kinemon this time...why not just do that the first time around? Why not just build to that confrontation after the reveal of Kanjuros treachery, rather than having this weird limp standoff inbetween?
    And this moment is not just glossed over by the "storytelling" in terms of offscreened, it also ends up feeling glossed over by the characters- we have Kinemon showing up to his allies mourning the corpse of his traitor former friend, but in spite of their supposed "strongest" bond Kinemon has no words to spare or feelings to share, and the first thing he does is say hello to Izo. Then he leaves. We know the scene is weirdly offscreened and compressed but Kinemon doesn't, and ultimately the handling of the scene makes it seem like he didn't give that much of a shit. The story then proceeds to have the scabbards hammer home that the really real threat, the one that actually matters, is Kaidou.

    It doesn't exactly serve to drum up the emotions for a thrilling confrontation between supposed best buds Kinemon and Kanjuro, because instead we have this 20+ chapter deadzone in the plotline for the sake of letting the Scabbards focus on Kaidou I guess, but it just ends up feeling awkward and leaveing Kanjuro as like a consolation prize.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Next inu chapter and 5 samurai's to go
    人事を尽くして天命を待つ
    Link to my AMVs

  10. #50

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    100% agreed. Since the very beginning Momo has been this very small boy to whom the world does no favors ; he is often afraid and powerless yet shows courage when it truly matters. So I would find it counter-productive if he was suddenly given a free pass to become this huge creature none can resist and achieves a DF mastery that took Kaido several decades. I will be more than happy if he stays that little boy and performs just the one feat of somehow taking control of the flames, just like he was briefly able to give Zunisha an order.
    Zunesha is another thing I was expecting to have a little more relevance as a way to make Momo important within his means. But it hasn't even been mentioned despite presumably being on standby somewhere out at sea.

    I don't know if we have the means to do a proper size comparison for viability, but what about Zunesha batting the falling island out of the path of the city with an enormous swing of the trunk?

  11. #51

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    I don't know if we have the means to do a proper size comparison for viability, but what about Zunesha batting the falling island out of the path of the city with an enormous swing of the trunk?
    For sure I would love to see more of the big guy. We know size can be anything to fit Oda's needs, however it's not the only matter. This might have been an option if it didn't also risk squashing to death the people still inside the island. Whom I expect to be pretty much everyone at the end of the battle, between the exahusted, the wounded and how few are able fly themselves and others to safety in the first place.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    I love One Piece but I definitely feel Pre timeskip is superior to Post timeskip

  13. #53

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    For sure I would love to see more of the big guy. We know size can be anything to fit Oda's needs, however it's not the only matter. This might have been an option if it didn't also risk squashing to death the people still inside the island. Whom I expect to be pretty much everyone at the end of the battle, between the exahusted, the wounded and how few are able fly themselves and others to safety in the first place.
    Maybe it doesn't have to be so violent. Having reviewed some bits of Zou, the Minks' city looks substantially larger than the fortresses inside the skull dome, at least. Maybe Zunesha could simply catch the island and put it back where it goes, acting on Momo's orders, of course. But I'm absolutely not married to the idea or even convinced it would be possible, given how weird Oda can be when it comes to scale.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    I love One Piece but I definitely feel Pre timeskip is superior to Post timeskip
    I'm sure this is a minority opinion, at least among longtime readers, but I enjoy post timeskip more. Pre timeskip was great and an important foundation and there's little of it I would change, but the more interconnected, serialised arcs of post timeskip really play to my personal tastes. There were definitely growing pains in the transition to larger-scale stuff, but the fantasy epic feel of reaching the point where years of foreshadowing pay off and every event starts to point toward the same conclusion is worth it.

    But also that's looking at the two halves overall. No individual arc has quite overtaken the Water Seven saga in terms of balancing drama, action and character moments in my mind.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    I suppose we'll get to see more of Bluma and Who'sWho before the castle eventually collapses.

    The CP-0 getting caught in the fire and collapsing is hilarious.

    And I suppose Hawkins is going to get out from whatever he's been hiding all this time.

  15. #55
    Discovered Stowaway astagadragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    And if Oda HADN'T done that One Piece might be almost done by now. Thats a huge batch of characters and a lot of long running plot to juggle. All for the sake of getting it to this point and then just having themm be side characters in their own story?
    I'm gonna argue that if Oda he compressed some arcs' story, like Dressrosa, WCI and even Wano; we're nearly done by now. Or at least already entering Laughtale/final arc.

    Like, what did the purpose of Luffy's 10 minutes break back then in Dressrosa? Could he compress Big Mom's pursuit? And Wano pre-Onigashima, did it REALLY NEED one year and half for build up? Even Fishman Island and Punk Hazard could be done faster if Oda really wants to. The only "effective" arc in New World is just Zou and Levelly IMO, they're short but poignant.

    Oda couldn't help himself with cramming as many sub-plots and characters... I mean, fodders (with their own baggage of sub plots) in his arcs by timeskip.

    What purpose the Oniwabanshu and Miwamarigumi (except Fukurojuku) do, when they're fodderized by Hyogoro in 1 page? Do we really need that many of Big Mom's children, when the only threatening ones are just 4 or 5? Et cetera...

    Now Oda's going faster and faster, sacrificing battles to pursue his own unrealistic deadline of 5 years... BUT he's still padding the chapters here and there.

    And looking at where the story's at right now, I'm sure Onigashima will end - at the earliest - in mid 2022, there are just too many sub plots to finish.
    Last edited by astagadragon; March 29th, 2021 at 07:12 PM.
    "The rain has ceased, and we have been graced by another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it." - Elidibus

  16. #56
    Likes the way you smile =D Retro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Coming in late, most opinion I already share so I'll make it quick

    Congrats on those who guess it was Kozumi. Disappointed it wasn't the fox but I guess this make sense, with Luffy fighting Kaido, the Scabbards gotta do something and honestly I had a feeling that was the case since, well, yeah dying offscreen is rarely Oda's thing. He has to make it look flashily. Like Ashura there even though I doubt that killed him, the guy's like 50% bulk and this series has proven explosion are just inconveniences to tough character (I mean maybe not Pedro but jury's still out on that). Money says he'll sleep it off then come back for a Big Damn Hero moment.

    Dogstorm vs Jack, both wounded and have a 1v1 score. I like this "could go either way" approch. But I agree Cat Viper probably gonna jump in at some point.

    Oh look Orochi's alive.... and that pretty much all I can express on that. I already guessed he was when Oda kept focusing on the head. Plus I know the whole myth behind the fruit and again with Luffy focusing on Kaido, this is pretty much the Scabbard's affairs to handle. Especially since Kaido burned bridges with Orochi, doubt anyone will come to protect him (maybe the female ninjas but eh). I am getting more and more curious why Fukurokuju is so loyal to him though.

    Hmm so Momo's getting a handle on his power, and can tell Luffy is alright? Huh... is he absorbing Kaido's power? That honestly would be a trip, he gets screwed over because the kid he kept bullying ending up taking in the powers he had.

    Oh NOW you idiots think to separate Kadio and Big Mom? That should've been plan a from the start. What did they expect when they fought two Emperors? And yeah Kaido hybrid look is just meh, I was hoping he would at least get a snout, look like he just gained more tattoos on his body. And those whiskers, haha, ah man, Luffy gonna grab them and swing him around at some point. I just know it. Dig that grin Luffy got, not often you see the slasher smile from the heroes end.

    Overall more setup but some progress at least. But I seriously wanna start to see some building toward some conclusions to these fights. I kinda think everything that can be setup has been by this point. We got a time limit, everyone that's thought dead is alive again and some grudge matches are a go. So...let's go. Or we can see what's going on from Wano's end when they see the big floating castle about to drop on them. I'm pretty sure we need a chapter of that too.
    Get nuts or go crazy trying.


  17. #57

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    wahaha, even the title was affected with the Carrot switching names.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Chapter 1,008: Leader of the Atamayama Thieves Brigade, Ashura Doji

    Quote Originally Posted by All Fiction View Post

    I believe Ashura will die in this battle. Not necessarily from the explosion he just took (though it surely leads up to it), but later on near the end of the climax.
    .
    well yes he pretty much became a bad guy and was doing as much harm to people as Kaidoís men. He lived his life and suffered much over the loss of friends who wanted to free Wano or die trying. He gave up his purpose and became a ruffian. Even if they win, can he really enjoy the new freed Wano?. I think he ends with this war.

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