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Thread: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

  1. #41
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    I moved on from talking Pokémon here because it got here toxic and stupid.

    Unite is fun enough, and no matter how I search, I can’t find how to turn directly money into power items. Sw&sh was very fun, and had a long life, even with its “trees” and the lack of chatot.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Toxic is a strong word, I stand by stupid and repetitive tho.
    SWSH was hella polarizing from the moment they revealed the dex cut, but reaction to Legends has been great so far. The positivity has overwhelmed any negativity by a lot and with good reason, the games look great (for Pokemon) and they're doing interesting things with the gameplay. I hope this can be a place where we can all come together to talk about it. Also.. Someone added me on Switch and I have no idea who. Was it someone from here?
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  2. #42

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Legends has my interest for sure so far with today's updated information.

    Gen4 remakes..... I'm still interested but a bit on the fence. I wish they'd tease some post-game or new forms or something that could craft some interest in "what's different" from me. Are Darkrai/Shaymin/Arceus still gonna be event only? Adding Manaphy to that group? I'd personally rather at least Darkrai and Arceus get added in as normal legendaries. Is it battle tower post-game again or battle frontier or something else altogether? The directs for this have been a weird mix of pretending people don't already know the story, but also showcasing the little extras that are changing. The underground and contest changes look great, but can I at least get something to be excited about with the legendaries to push me over?

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcotty View Post
    Legends has my interest for sure so far with today's updated information.

    Gen4 remakes..... I'm still interested but a bit on the fence. I wish they'd tease some post-game or new forms or something that could craft some interest in "what's different" from me. Are Darkrai/Shaymin/Arceus still gonna be event only? Adding Manaphy to that group? I'd personally rather at least Darkrai and Arceus get added in as normal legendaries. Is it battle tower post-game again or battle frontier or something else altogether? The directs for this have been a weird mix of pretending people don't already know the story, but also showcasing the little extras that are changing. The underground and contest changes look great, but can I at least get something to be excited about with the legendaries to push me over?
    It doesn't look like the Battle Frontier will be in the game. The updated Map just shows the regular Battle Tower and also doesn't include any of the other Platinum updates to the map. This could be a fake out, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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  4. #44

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    I definitely recommend Unite for those who haven't tried it. I've had a miserable to meh experience with other MOBAs, and while Unite has its flaws (random unplayable lag in some matches, for example) it is also very fun in short bursts. Matches don't feel like a pain to finish so it's easy to just "play one more"

    Also it's free for the most part so it's easy to try it out and leave if not your cup of tea. I also expect the playing populace will grow significantly once it goes on mobile in a month.

    Also, you get to use rollout with Wigglytuff and bounce around the map like a pinball and it's hilarious

  5. #45
    Discovered Stowaway The D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    I still can't get over the new legends: arceus trailer. It looks so so so good. Wyrdeer my beloved <3 <3 <3
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  6. #46

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    By the way saying that Unite is pay to win means, I can only assume, that you've never played the game or just suck. I would call it maybe... "pay to have a slight advantage until everyone catches up anyway."
    Yes, that is what Pay to Win is. Doesn't matter if its not by a lot, it's still paying to get an advantage.

    I've played plenty of mobas, I don't need to start this one.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    the games look great (for Pokemon)
    Why is it the best selling games in the world are cut so much slack when it comes to visuals? Yeah I don't expect them to be Horizon or Ghost of Tsushima, nor should they be, and it DOES look like a step up for them... but the main games by the main company *should* be setting standards or have solid art design and direction that hides their shortcomings. WHy is it always okay for pokemon to look like years behind visually? Breath of the Wild and DQ11 will be nearly 5 years old by the time Arceus comes out, and those both look better, particularly with grass and water effects and atmosphere. Monster Hunter Rise just hit on the same hardware, and yeah its going for realism over cartoony, but the scenery in general looks nicer..

    I look at Arceus and I *notice* the ground and rock textures. I'm not staring at still images or trying to nitpick, I just look at it and that pops out to me in a way games haven't really had an issue with in a while.

    Oh well, if its optimized so that it runs smoothly instead of lagging constantly I'm more okay with that.

    and they're doing interesting things with the gameplay.
    At least they're finally doing something with the speed stat.
    Last edited by Robby; August 19th, 2021 at 07:21 AM.
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Why is it the best selling games in the world are cut so much slack when it comes to visuals? Yeah I don't expect them to be Horizon or Ghost of Tsushima, nor should they be, and it DOES look like a step up for them... but the main games by the main company *should* be setting standards or have solid art design and direction that hides their shortcomings. WHy is it always okay for pokemon to look like years behind visually? Breath of the Wild and DQ11 will be nearly 5 years old by the time Arceus comes out, and those both look better, particularly with grass and water effects and atmosphere. Monster Hunter Rise just hit on the same hardware, and yeah its going for realism over cartoony, but the scenery in general looks nicer..

    I look at Arceus and I *notice* the ground and rock textures. I'm not staring at still images or trying to nitpick, I just look at it and that pops out to me in a way games haven't really had an issue with in a while.
    You're not wrong at all, but as long as Pokemon continues to sell the way they do, they aren't going to worry too much about the graphics. Even still, it looks more impressive to me than SWSH did. The lighting is much more impressive and the pokemon seem to be more naturally placed than in SWSH.

    At least they're finally doing something with the speed stat.
    That part is great! But I'm more excited for the return of the Pokemon Ride system that lets the pokemon themselves integrate into the gameplay by way of exploration, and also unlike SWSH, it looks like there will be plenty of places to explore and reasons for doing so. There are also small dynamic things I'm noticing like multiple Golduck attacking the trainer while he's riding a Wyrdeer around the environment: https://youtu.be/v_PtWy2bZf0?t=213

    or the Buizel that's sleeping and gets up when you come near, and a similarly sleeping Snorlax with Munchlax walking around it (which makes so much more sense than the placements of pokemon we got in SWSH and sells it as a lived in world) and slight environmental effects when fire pokemon walk in grass.
    Last edited by andre; August 19th, 2021 at 08:30 AM.
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  8. #48

  9. #49

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Wow, its like I was quoting him and I've never seen that clip before in my life.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yes, that is what Pay to Win is. Doesn't matter if its not by a lot, it's still paying to get an advantage.

    I've played plenty of mobas, I don't need to start this one.
    Nobody is paying to get an advantage. They are paying to 1) unlock new mons, and/or 2) to unlock trainer outfits and holowear (Pokémon costumes). There is a SLIGHT side effect, if you purchased the season pass, where you earn A FEW extra tickets over the course of hundreds of matches that can convert into item-leveling resources. It makes zero difference casually and if you're playing so much that you're at top competitive levels and it somehow becomes a factor, then well... maybe it's okay to spend like EIGHT DOLLARS to support a game you enjoy. I'm still FTP and my ranked win rate is over 90% right now because I only play it once in a while instead of tryharding the ladder. This is not what Pay to Win means. I used to work at a game publisher with a FTP model and boy can I tell you about pay to win. Or worse... pay to get unbanned for cheating. Overall this just feels like a lazy, uninformed, underhanded slight from someone clearly jaded and who honestly probably should not be posting in here.

    Edit: I actually just went and did the math out of curiosity. If you have the battle pass and actually reach max level for the season, you get the equivalent to a "whopping" 540 item enhancers. That's about 20% of the required amount to max out a single battle item (and in case you didn't know, you equip three items simultaneously).
    Last edited by Foolio; August 19th, 2021 at 12:12 PM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Posted for relevance

    I don't think it's such a mystery of why Pokemon graphics in general are not at the level of other games
    1. A dev team used to handheld graphics suddenly being expected to produce high-end console graphics within the same timeframe is unreasonable. It's clear that after the SwSh backlash they're investing more into this from looking at Arceus which is definitely a step forward but it's not like they'll suddenly match the Monster Hunter team.
    2. Pokemon games have never really been about pushing graphics forward, and it's reasonable for directors to put low priority on this. And I kind of agree with this? I don't care if the game doesn't look like other AAA titles as long as it's fun and entertains. All pokemon games have accomplished this, including SwSh, so it's really hard to care about things like tree and rock textures when I was busy, well, having fun.
    As an aside, I wish we would have just kept sprites a la Unova, and just expanded on that by taking advantage of technology improvements to boost scope, not graphics. Pushing graphics is such a stupid priority to me on so many games that seem to focus so hard on looks that they forget to actually make the world engaging, and 3D pokemon cities are such a downgrade to what we have in Unova.

    Now, why they hired another studio to do the games and the graphics still don't look super extremely good is a good question, but I don't think it's as dramatic as they make it seem. It doesn't look as sexy as Link's Awakening, but it still looks more than fine to me. I'll easily take something like this over the Skyward Sword/Pikmin 3 style remaster.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    I felt that way about sprites for a while, but I gotta say, Legends Arceus is the first game that's basically proving the worth of 3D to me. If there is flying and mountain climbing that's dynamic, then it's worth it just for the sense of verticality 3D allows.
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  13. #53

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    The speed stat is the most important of the stats of the game, specially with dynamic speed introduced this gen.

    It determines the turn order, if someone attacks first, that mon has an enormously advantage over the following mons, that is what makes rillaboom and regieleki very strong even with their weaknesses, and why scarfed kyogre managed to win against 5 vgc champions the last weekend.

    Attacking first means if you kill, you don’t get hit, if your attacks have secondary effects and they trigger they lost their turn to a flinch or a sleep. And in doubles with dynamic speed it means that if you outspeed your opponents with regieleki and then you use electro web, the partner mon now has a window of opportunity to outspeed your opponent as well.

    They are doing more with it, but that just puts speedy mons more over the top, see the mini strategy they did, speedy status boost means that with a fast nasty plot, before your opponent can move you’d have done 1.5 damage in a mirror match, that is assuming speedy and strong can’t be combined before your opponent’s turn.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    On graphics, sure the overworld can be stupidly outdated, I believe some asset flips can do it better. But even with a small dex, it is 400 unique creature rigs. I doubt Skyrim gets to 20, monster hunter to 50, dragon quest to around 100. As much as solrock and lunatone just float there and only blink, I think, those are exceptions, axex and squirtle have the same body shape but move nothing alike, other than the floatys and the flying ones you mostly can’t reuse walk animations. Again, as we spoke about this 3 years ago, they should have this covered, but it is not like they can place 400 unique models on a new engine/console/resource pipeline and just brute force it if something is wrong.

    I do wish that they tossed away these models and reworked them, make the fire and smoke that are part of the bodies an effect rather than a blob on top of the mon, continue stockpiling animations to make them more alive, fix mouths and eyes so they look more like creatures, try some textures to see if fur, metal, scales and leaves look fine on the models, and fix the audio, or at least re record the cries.
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  14. #54

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    You know it's a mainline game when it brings brand new species in the form of regional variants or evolutions.
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  15. #55
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    Nobody is paying to get an advantage. They are paying to 1) unlock new mons, and/or 2) to unlock trainer outfits and holowear (Pokémon costumes). There is a SLIGHT side effect, if you purchased the season pass, where you earn A FEW extra tickets over the course of hundreds of matches that can convert into item-leveling resources. It makes zero difference casually and if you're playing so much that you're at top competitive levels and it somehow becomes a factor, then well... maybe it's okay to spend like EIGHT DOLLARS to support a game you enjoy. I'm still FTP and my ranked win rate is over 90% right now because I only play it once in a while instead of tryharding the ladder. This is not what Pay to Win means. I used to work at a game publisher with a FTP model and boy can I tell you about pay to win. Or worse... pay to get unbanned for cheating. Overall this just feels like a lazy, uninformed, underhanded slight from someone clearly jaded and who honestly probably should not be posting in here.

    Edit: I actually just went and did the math out of curiosity. If you have the battle pass and actually reach max level for the season, you get the equivalent to a "whopping" 540 item enhancers. That's about 20% of the required amount to max out a single battle item (and in case you didn't know, you equip three items simultaneously).
    But apart from the season pass, as far as I can tell, you can also use gems - the premium currency you buy with IRL money - to get tickets, that can then be traded for item enhancers? Meaning that if someone is willing to shell out the dough they can max out their items from the start, thus getting a big advantage against peers?

  16. #56

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    I'll get the new Pearl game purely so I can get a Glameow and shoot for a complete cat collection. Arceus sounds like what I wanted Shield and Sword to be but I'll wait with buying it until reviews are out. That, and I have at least five unfinished games I should take care of first.

    Just very bummed about the franchise in general. I guess part of it is me growing out of it as I get older, tastes change. At the same time I can pinpoint when I lost interest to gen 6 with the switch to 3D killing all the visual appeal (along with dumbing down he main story gameplay). In general I much prefer 2D graphics for 2D games but it can be done nice. Zelda is great at that. But it feels like Pokémon hasn't found a style that works in 3D yet. It's too bland and generic, and it's like they can't decide whether they want to do a cartoony style or realism so they go in-between. I'd like to say I can understand them, game development is hard especially when you have hundreds of monsters that need to be re-used between games, but this is also one of the biggest gaming franchises in the world.

    I keep looking at that shot when they zoom in on the Stantler evolution and I'm getting distracted by the cliff having weirdly scaled textures, visible polygons and jagged anti-aliasing. And the trees in particular, you can tell it's the same damn tree used for every area, they aren't even scaled differently. And I'm someone who normally LOVES retro-style games with all their weird visual stuff.

    But to look on the bright side it's a big step in the right direction showing they are listening to fans, and they seem to have made some shaders and effects that look nice.
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  17. #57

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    The speed stat is the most important of the stats of the game, specially with dynamic speed introduced this gen.

    Thats because the game is set up in such a way that 1-hit kos are incredibly common, between STAB attack and weaknesses getting so much overkill bonus.

    But its up till now been incredibly boring to say, have a Jolteon with 390 speed, and be up against a Shuckle with 10 speed, but you both get the same number of turns.

    Being 1 point faster was always the same as being 300 points faster. So yes, speed is important. It matters for team sweeps and competitive. But its a really boring stat otherwise for the main game.

    Other monster raising games fix that by just either giving everything way more HP, or simply by not having type advantages be quite so crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    But apart from the season pass, as far as I can tell, you can also use gems - the premium currency you buy with IRL money - to get tickets, that can then be traded for item enhancers? Meaning that if someone is willing to shell out the dough they can max out their items from the start, thus getting a big advantage against peers?
    That was my understanding as well. No one is *going* to buy that much for every match, but the option IS there.

    If that's incorrect then its not as bad as I thought it was, but being able to buy *any* early advantage in a Moba is awful. Currency flow is THE most important thing in most mobas since getting items faster means more kills earlier which leads to snowballing.

    I put a looot of hours into League, HotoS and Smite, and taking crappy starter items that were cheaper just to have a starter item was the norm. Getting a free starter item (or several!) is a huge advantage. (As are characters that can return to map position quickly after a death they usually need huge downsides to make up for that.)


    Maybe it doesn't matter as much in Pokemon if the average match is only 10 minutes instead of the 20-60 most Mobas have.
    Last edited by Robby; August 20th, 2021 at 03:39 PM.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    But apart from the season pass, as far as I can tell, you can also use gems - the premium currency you buy with IRL money - to get tickets, that can then be traded for item enhancers? Meaning that if someone is willing to shell out the dough they can max out their items from the start, thus getting a big advantage against peers?
    https://gamewith.net/pokemon-unite/article/show/29251

    I've explored the shop and can't find where to turn gems into anything other than mons or clothes (and the battle pass)

    Oh, and the exp booster and the gold booster, that make earning tickets faster. Or the things tied to the gacha machine I guess.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Back to speed stuff, I don't see anthing wrong with 11 being the same as 300, it is how fast they can take an action, not as much how fast they move.

    The multi turn thing feels like something that will break the game in a direction that is already fragile in the first place, and reducing stab or boosting HP would make the game way slower as well, and after watching the dynamax animation enough times, I think I'd like a faster paced game rather than reducing everyone's power so that 2 turns in a row doesn't inmediatelly ends every battle.

    Other than reworking of anything between 200 and 600 stat spreads, something universally useful for going second in a turn coud help, there are a bunch of things that do that, the counter moves, endeavor, avalanche and one of payback or punishment, and the edge cases of field damage and perish song letting you win if both are KOed at the same time but you are slower.

    This goes to 2 sources, either pvp is taking away from the capacity of pve to innovate because everything is shared, or to the limits of turn based combat.
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  19. #59

    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    But apart from the season pass, as far as I can tell, you can also use gems - the premium currency you buy with IRL money - to get tickets, that can then be traded for item enhancers? Meaning that if someone is willing to shell out the dough they can max out their items from the start, thus getting a big advantage against peers?
    That's really weird if true. There is no way to directly exchange paid gems into tickets, and it's bizarre because every other item shows the cost in both tickets and gems (the gem cost always being a tenth the number of required tickets). The item enhancers are literally the only item in the list that don't have a gem price and cannot be directly exchanged with gems. So if it's going to let you do it anyway... what the hell is the point of it seeming otherwise? That's awfully misleading. I guess it forces you to at least deplete your current supply of tickets first...?

    Well in that case I am slightly wrong; it is then technically possible to spend hundreds of dollars to max out a few items for a modest objective advantage. Definitely questionable, but also definitely nowhere near the realm of games that actually straight up let you pay (usually "reasonable" amounts of money) for a giant unfair advantage. It is absolutely not a reason to avoid the game; it's a reason for someone who already doesn't want to play the game to complain more. It's not ruining matches; what ruins matches is lag, salty AFKers, and clueless children (I hope) mistaking a competitive multiplayer game for something else due to the Pokémon brand. But only the latter is really a unique problem here. I do apologize if I was wrong though. That's what I get for believing the UI.

  20. #60
    Discovered Stowaway The D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokémon BD,SP, Legends, and other Spinoffs

    All I want from pokemon games going forward is more to do in the post game. Either that or multiple saves. I don't want to beat the game in two days and then have nothing interesting to do until I decide to do another run. Especially since I don't have any interest in completing the dex.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

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