American Politics: So long Trump!

[joekido the Second]

Fox News is trending on Twitter. Apparently their viewers are really frustrated about how part of the network is handling the election and Trump's accusations of fraud. Their ratings are falling down.

I wonder what are they planning... Are they abandoning ship? Will they get scared and change their tone? Is it a long-term strategy? Will another right-wing network rise up and take their place? Will conservatives only read alternative fake media now?

There is a new news source called Newsmax where many of the conservatives are jump on that site. Fox will eventually abandon the propaganda crap and start being honest to see both sides instead of defending the conservatives.

We are now seeing the damage Trump has caused and it would impact the conservative big time. Trump has caused an ugly shadow that would expose everything that is wrong with the current Republicans and how toxic the conservatives has been. They will eventually have reboot themselves or stay getting humiliated by the ironies from the Democrats that are being seen as good guys.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

This "bad image" is still lucrative and very popular among their viewer base, so I don't know why they care if their image is "hurt" by being associated with Trumpism. They haven't cared for years now.

So that's why I have to wonder if there's a long-term strategy to reclaim their popularity after this crisis. Or maybe it's their staff/executives who just got fed up with all that shit and and want to be more honest going forward. Maybe they're finally afraid of playing with fire. Or not.

Trumpism will still be around for years and it will be like a disease destroying the Republicans. Biden may try to fix the mess but may not undo all the damage while the Republicans become more and more extreme.

[pariston_hill]

This "bad image" is still lucrative and very popular among their viewer base, so I don't know why they care if their image is "hurt" by being associated with Trumpism. They haven't cared for years now.

So that's why I have to wonder if there's a long-term strategy to reclaim their popularity after this crisis. Or maybe it's their staff/executives who just got fed up with all that shit and and want to be more honest going forward. Maybe they're finally afraid of playing with fire. Or not.

Murdoch sold most of FOX assets to Disney, they can't have one of the few lucrative parts of his corporation face a sponsor's backlash of the fraud conspiracy.

[Bugs]

Oh fuck me. Trump just fired Esper. This was a long time in the making, but... the only he would even think about doing so at this point is because Esper refused to do something Trump didn't want to do and (along with Barr's investigation and the lawsuit to throw out Pennslyvania's votes for the EC and the refusal of the GSA to acknowledge a transition is to take place) that he has no intention of leaving. I don't know what this means because a scary reality is that Trumps wants the use the troops to assert himself (worst than what happened in DC) and Esper refused.

[Chrior]

It’s definitely astonishing, to say the least. I think that a lot of people are having to come to terms with the harsh reality that not all social, ethnic, and economic groups are the political monoliths that we used to see them as.

Clap, clap, clap. This is BY FAR my biggest gripe with the current trends of American liberalism/progressivism/left, whatever you want to call it. How in the world did people even arrive at these conclusions in the first place? How does it even make sense to left-leaning people that we should fit entire populations into well-defined boxes based on their ethnic origins/gender/sexual orientation/whatever and assume that everyone in there thinks and behaves the same way? This is exactly the same logic racists used historically! This is assuming racist propositions but using them to base opposite types of policies. It's not only far from reality, it's ethically, morally wrong. It's the antithesis to what left-wing movements have historically defended: liberty, equality, fraternity. The ideals of the Republic, the founding words of the American declaration of independence. "All man are created equal".

The goal should be for everyone to be judged for WHO they are, not WHAT they are. By their actions, not their looks. For all to be equally treated as citizens. For that to happen, you can't keep treating people as stereotyped groups and try to cater to their feelings by putting in place candidates who look and talk like them. That doesn't solve anything. That should be a natural goal resulting of ending the chains of opression, exploitation, injustice. Not a method. What unites progressives should be what brings all humans together. Not their differences, but what they have in common. Instead of holding pissing contests for who the most opressed minority is (which backfired just spectacularly by making poor white people starting to play the contest and going all trumpist), Democrat leaders should actually try to see the fundamental issues that have been breaking America for decades. Issues that have been afecting society as a whole and tearing it apart.

Social injustice abounds. Never since the Great Depression have the USA been so unfair for so many people. That is what unites the common masses (and this includes the poor who have become poorer, as well as the middle class which has stagnated and shrinked for decades). That's what progressives must fight against. To restore hope and prosperity to everyone. Every. One. Not blacks, not latinos, not asians, not gays, not women. To every american citizen in the same way. If your country can help everyone increase their quality of life, pay their bills every month, aford a house, aford to have kids and their own family, not constantly be looking out for 2 or 3 different jobs just to make ends meet, then maybe things wouldn't be as hard as they are for so many people. And while you're at it, yes, promote ideals of equality for all colors, genders, etc. You can't dissociate the fights from each other. F.D. Roosevelt saved the US from fascism by doing exactly this. Taking the poor masses out of their misery and putting the economy at the service of the country and all people. While on the other side of the Atlantic, economic and financial devastation and the center's complacency with the far right led to World War II. Minorities became the easy scapegoats for the failures of the establishment. We've been at a very similar point in our History for over a decade, and I truly don't understand how people in general haven't learned history's lessons yet.

[Sano]

I know this isn't true. But after the Four Season incident, I won't be surprised about this.

https://news.avclub.com/trump-report...ood-1845621160

[joekido the Second]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...-report-435620

Sheesh, is Trump losing his nerve here? Is he's going to start firing everyone around here? First Esper and now this.

[Dorobō Neko]

I agree that it's best not to say the word socialism or defund the police. These are politically toxic phrases. I'll concede that Bernie and AOC probably shouldn't be physically present in Georgia campaigning either. The left can stand to be more pragmatic.

They really have to if they want to gain more support. Unpopular phrases and the need to double down on them is just not doing them any favors.

The same goes for old guard democrats though. They can stand to be more pragmatic in the sense of embracing the grass roots and adopting popular rhetoric. There are things the left can learn from liberals, but the liberals can also learn things from the left.

I mean Biden did pretty fine all things said. He also talked to Americans no what we actually want instead of just being a populist. A thing the Online Left should learn from the Democratic party is to let them do the slogans and stump speeches. Not really disagreeing about grassroots here. Just saying tone is and marketing is important to it.

You know what this election did show? Grassroots campaigning was massively successful, it gave the dems stunning victories in flipping states and just saved us from Donald Trump. That's what the dems need to focus on now, massive grassroots campaigning. Georgia would not have flipped without Stacey Abrams's massive grassroots efforts. This is the way to go. If Georgia can be flipped, anything is possible, so long as the energy and grassroots effort is there. And I honestly see neither of these things from the dem leadership.

Stacey Abrams did come through for us. One thing that also helped, was the mail-in votes really helped get around how hard it is to vote in the state. The pandemic is a messy thing with this election but I think it helped a ton here. And it sounds like from all this early data Indian-Americans helped tilt red counties in GA, an effect that probably came from Harris being on the ticket. She was in GA a lot in the last month of the election.

But besides all that, we will be looking at Abrams big time in how to keep winning seats in GA now.

The Biden campaign outright said that the latino vote was not part of their strategy. Just an unforgivable strategic blunder. The latino community is very conservative christian, high in machismo and growing rapidly. This makes it so there is a real risk of republicans eventually dominating this very important demographic, if they do, they'll never lose an election again. Dems must make absolutely sure to never lose it.

One thing that needs to be said before we keep using exit polls and other early data is to look at Hispanics from elsewhere than just Florida, where Biden did very well with them even with these strategies. That said, they knew they would be a hard battle when this was more of a WI/MI/PA election so them not putting all their eggs in Florida was the right move, for this election anyway. Could they have done more? It's moot now but I think they had the right data about Florida and put their focus where it mattered instead.

Another thing to consider, is this is a voting block in Florida that realllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy do not view socialism the same way kids in New York do. Like want to really win them over? Promise to depose Maduro. Crazy, I know. But it would get them in our block for a good while. Denouncing socialism and communism fully would be things you have to do and would learn from grassroots movements in Florida. Oh and they don't like to be looked down with by viewing them as the same as every other Hispanic out there. We really should not not paint them under the same brush when talking about how we can win them over.

Bernie did extremely well among latinos,

Besides in Florida where his comments cost him and yes, Biden the state. The association with Bernie was bad here.

so the dem leadership should learn from him.

Fuck no. He is terrible at elections and just no. Bernie is done with and it's time to move forward already.

Omar and Tlaib Credited as 'Major Factors' in Securing Biden Victories in Minnesota and Michigan.

Omar underperformed Biden in her own districts by 16%. And she did worse than she did in 2018. If this is to be believed, I still question why did she do so poorly in her own district.

The Biden-Harris campaign outright resisted in-person canvassing,

Huh I wonder why?

but Tlaib and Omar did it anyway, and secured key districts in this election. Trump may have won if it weren't for their efforts.

We don't have all the data yet or answers but I am going to say I doubt this. I could just say the Klob's endorsement ensured Biden won her state and would be probably just as right. It lead to him winning in the primary and Omar's in-person canvassing skills meant fuck all for Bernie then.

I legitimately wonder: why do you think dems performed so poorly down-ballot? Do you think it was because of AOC, Bernie and BLM scaring off conservatives? To me, it seems to be because dems didn't really have a message to engage with their base and swing-voters.

A question like this needs more data and it goes on the assumption we did poorly. We got a senate seat and lost 4 house seats. And with Biden winning by 5 points, if the GOP got this result, they would be celebrating total victory. But we're Dems so we must always act like we are losers in victory.

But the best answer I can give you is a mix of many things, people have a hard time understanding the downballot, the same polling error happened as 2016 but it only hit the downballots rather than the top ticket, Maine's polls were fully wrong and off base in terms of Collins' numbers, the rank based voting might have actually helped her more than her challenger, running a progressive who already lost in NE2 before was a mistake, yes association to Bernie and AOC didn't help the Florida races, the Florida races were also handled poorly, AOC spent millions of dollars on Facebook ads nation wide for some god forsaken reason while nation wide her numbers are around Trump's and I am sure many more. Oh and a pandemic. The point is, I just think the poor message argument is not the right one and the base was energized with the top of the ticket but many reasons downballot didn't go the way we wanted but overall? Not too big a defeat, we won where it mattered and we still have the GA runoffs no matter how much of a long shot they are.

What is in your opinion the reason that two time Obama voters switched to Trump, twice? Not liking Hillary is part of it, but that can't be the whole reason.

Why not? She barely lost and look what just happened when she was not on the ticket? Sexism is powerful, awful as it is.

Do you see no issue with people in their eighties still being in charge of the party? They came from a different era, a completely different political landscape and just can't seem to adapt to the present landscape. Why didn't they step down long ago to assume advisory roles to help their slightly younger colleagues, if they really want their party to win? To me, it seems like ego is a big part of why they just won't let go of their powerful positions within the party.

Not a fan of ageism, no. Biden called everything right though? He seems to get it more than most because again, he and his camp turned off Twitter.

I will say it would be nice if Nancy and folks had some more people under their wing. Chris Van Hollen was one of hers I believe, but he is now my senator so it will be hard to find someone to fill her shoes. For awhile I thought AOC in the future, but AOC seems to dislike the job now so who knows if she can handle it. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

As for the rest, again, the other party would view this as a win and would not be questioning their leadership's ages

If the dems unite and give all their effort to win these Georgia seats with massive grassroots and voter outreach efforts, I think they have a very good chance of winning them. The reason I'm so skeptical is that I'm afraid the dems will be way too docile and not interact with their voters. What do you think their strategy should be?

I'm just skeptical because it's still a pretty red state even with this flip, some folks are hard to get through. As it stands, it will come down to what you're bringing up, so yeah no Bernie near it and hopefully AOC stops running her mouth off and these FB ads all over the place and we just unite and do big gotv outreach.

It's also gonna come down to how the GOP takes Trump's defeat there. Do the voters now think voting doesn't matter since the election was "stolen"? History says that's not likely but their party could be depressed anyway. Hopefully.

Major thing is to run on the ACA there a lot. Use Abrams on this, send Obama and Harris down there as well if need be.

[Satsuki]

AOC might leave politics next term, because as she says centrist Dems are accusing the progressives of costing them House seats:
https://news.yahoo.com/aoc-said-she-...l&uh_test=2_15

Don't leave us, Alexandria! Noooo!!

It is much more than that. The ruling party wants to take away citizenship en masse. Even people who lived here for almost all of their lives and served military for their entire career are finding themselves as 'outsiders'.
And let's not talk about neverending fanning of religious bigotry. I am Hindu by birth, but never cared for religion since 10th grade. But seeing your friends, family members, students ; a good many of them if not all, indulging in madness...hurts.

On topic, what do you guys think Trump's endgame is going to be? Is it really possible that we will see the drama of being dragged out of WH?

Huh, sounds like a lot of Christians here.

As for Trump, I'm not sure if he has a "specific" endgame, he just wants to make things as hard as possible for Biden. Because he's an immature dickhead. He MIGHT decide that being literally dragged from the WH is too embarrassing, but who knows what his mental condition will be at that point.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1325883025721339904
https://twitter.com/mmpadellan/statu...83025721339904

Naughty language but thank you Australia.

That is fucking hilarious. I thought it was Ozzy Man for a second. Australia rocks.

Oh fuck me. Trump just fired Esper. This was a long time in the making, but... the only he would even think about doing so at this point is because Esper refused to do something Trump didn't want to do and (along with Barr's investigation and the lawsuit to throw out Pennslyvania's votes for the EC and the refusal of the GSA to acknowledge a transition is to take place) that he has no intention of leaving. I don't know what this means because a scary reality is that Trumps wants the use the troops to assert himself (worst than what happened in DC) and Esper refused.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...-report-435620

Sheesh, is Trump losing his nerve here? Is he's going to start firing everyone around here? First Esper and now this.

I'd say right now Biden should pick his cabinet, then put them under lock and key, because Trump is getting even crazier.

[MDL]

The goal should be for everyone to be judged for WHO they are, not WHAT they are. By their actions, not their looks. For all to be equally treated as citizens

10000% agreed.

[sgamer82]

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday...1/09/day-1390/

Day 1390: "A mask is not a political statement."

Spoiler:

1/ More than 10 million people have been infected with the coronavirus in the United States, which is about one-fifth of the 50 million infections worldwide. At least 105,000 new COVID-19 cases were reported on Sunday, down slightly from the daily record set a day earlier. All but one state had more cases last week than the week before. (NPR / ABC News / USA Today / CNN / Bloomberg)

• 😷 Dept. of “We Have It Totally Under Control.”
  
  
• Global: Total confirmed cases: ~50,767,000; deaths: ~1,262,000
• U.S.: Total confirmed cases: ~10,030,000; deaths: ~239,000
• Source: Johns Hopkins University
• Live Blogs: New York Times / Washington Post / CNN / Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal

2/ Biden named 13 health experts to his Transition COVID-19 Advisory Board and declared the pandemic “one of the most important battles our administration will face.” Biden added: “I will be informed by science and by experts.” The panel will be co-chaired by the former FDA commissioner, former Surgeon General, and an associate professor of medicine and epidemiology at Yale. While Biden is unable to take control of the country’s response until after his Jan. 20 inauguration, the advisory board will work to create a plan for bringing the pandemic under control — a process Biden says will begin immediately after his inauguration – despite uncertainty over how much the Trump administration will cooperate. Biden also warned that the U.S. was facing a “dark winter” as the coronavirus continues to spread and appealed to Americans to wear mask, saying “a mask is not a political statement.” (New York Times / Washington Post / Associated Press / Axios / NPR / NBC News / Bloomberg)
3/ Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine is reportedly more than 90% effective, according to an analysis by an independent data monitoring committee. Pfizer plans to ask the FDA for emergency authorization later this month, after it has collected two months of safety data. By the end of the year it will have manufactured enough doses to immunize 15 to 20 million people. Pfizer did not join Operation Warp Speed, the Jared Kushner initiative to rush a vaccine to market by providing funding for research and manufacturing. Instead, Pfizer invested $2 billion on the project and then made a $1.95 billion deal with the U.S. government to provide 100 million doses. (New York Times / Washington Post / Associated Press / STAT News / Politico / CNBC)

• Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson tested positive for COVID-19, days after Chief of Staff Mark Meadows also tested positive. Meadows and Carson attended the White House’s largely mask-free election night party alongside a group of officials in Trump’s Cabinet. (Axios / Washington Post)
• Rep. Matt Gaetz, a close Trump ally, tested positive for coronavirus antibodies on Election Day. In March, Gaetz wore a gas mask on the House floor during a vote on an emergency funding bill to fight the spread of COVID-19. (Politico / The Hill)

4/ Biden plans to sign a series of executive orders after being sworn into office on Jan. 20 to reverse Trump’s policies, including rejoining the Paris climate accord, reversing the country’s withdrawal from the World Health Organization, repealing the ban on travel from some Muslim-majority countries, and reinstating the program allowing “Dreamers” to remain in the country. (Washington Post)
5/ Trump and his campaign continue to baselessly claim widespread election fraud, alleging that observers were blocked from ballot-counting rooms. The claim is without any basis in fact and is contradicted by several of Trump’s own legal filings. (New York Times / Washington Post / Axios)

• Trump plans to hold campaign-style rallies in an effort to fight against the election results. He also reportedly plans to display the obituaries of people who supposedly voted but are dead. (Axios)

6/ Mitch McConnell supported Trump’s refusal to concede the election, saying Trump was “100 percent within his rights” to challenge the outcome and “look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options.” McConnell, declining to recognize Biden’s victory, added that Trump was right to not concede the presidential race because no states have certified their results yet. Jason Miller, a senior adviser to Trump’s reelection effort, said conceding “is not even in our vocabulary right now.” (New York Times / NBC News / Politico)
7/ A Trump administration appointee has refused to recognize Biden as the winner of the election and has declined to sign a letter allowing Biden’s transition team to formally begin its work. Emily Murphy, the administrator for the General Services Administration, must first affirm the election results in order for Biden’s transition to receive the legally mandated millions of dollars in federal funding, as well as access to government officials, office space in agencies, and equipment authorized for the transition team. Meanwhile, John Barsa, the acting deputy administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development told political appointees that the transition of power hasn’t started and will not begin until Murphy signs off. (Washington Post / CNBC / CNN)
8/ Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper by tweet. Trump tweeted that Christopher Miller, director of the National Counterterrorism Center, would immediately become acting defense secretary now that “Esper has been terminated.” Trump nominated Esper last year as his fourth defense secretary and the two had been at odds since Esper declined to deploy active-service troops to U.S. cities at the height of the Black Lives Matter protests this summer. Two White House officials said that FBI Director Christopher Wray and CIA Director Gina Haspel could be next. (Washington Post / New York Times / Politico / CNBC / Wall Street Journal / CNN / The Guardian / Reuters / USA Today)

9/ Trump told advisers he’s thinking about running for president again in 2024. (Axios)

[joekido the Second]

Trump may not even survive to 2024. If he did, he would have been worned out and won't get the same support from evangelicals since he basically failed them.

[MetaMario]

6/ Mitch McConnell supported Trump’s refusal to concede the election, saying Trump was “100 percent within his rights” to challenge the outcome and “look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options.” McConnell, declining to recognize Biden’s victory, added that Trump was right to not concede the presidential race because no states have certified their results yet.

of course mitch would be one of them. god when do we get rid of this guy

Trump told advisers he’s thinking about running for president again in 2024. (Axios)

i mostly loathe this idea.
the silver lining is simple: either trump splits the republican votes and denies their victory in the election where Dems have to choose their next star for President, OR tries running as a Republican candidate and loses simply by virtue of not having his zenith of appeal anymore. Either way blue wins, red curses their sinking ship.

but if there's no legal or financial force, magically, holding him back from running my stomach just turns at more years of his antics. Grover Cleveland Trump would be the worst timeline. Him sandwiching Biden whom the more left-leaning are already ambivalent on. We'd just go backwards again.

[andre]

Honestly, fuck Trump supporters, not Republicans, not 100 percent necessarily everyone who voted for him, but those who actively support him, fuck em. Everything about his cult of personality is mired in hatred. There is no reason to support the man that doesn't come back to hatred of some group or another. Here's a video that shows the general mindset and willful ignorance/hatred from his supporters.

A nation is its people. I am still trying to come to terms with a nation with close to 50 percent of people (or even as low as 40) who think this man is worth celebrating or electing to a leadership position. The Christian right that support him (Not necessarily vote for him) and his rhetoric betray themselves as extreme hypocrites. I keep hearing stuff from some about accepting a person regardless of who they vote for or support, but I just can't comprehend someone with any of the traits I value in a decent person supporting the man. Honesty? Out the window. Empathy? Wisdom? Trustworthiness? These things haven't existed in the White House on any level since Trump has taken over. Supporting Trump is not just a political statement, it's a lifestyle choice. MAGA seeks a recalibration of America back toward its worst historical instincts. I don't have MAGA friends and I don't want them.

I also know that Biden isn't the answer to all of these problems and the rise of Trump is also a product of many of our political systems issues, but man, he's so much better than Trump on every level possible. It feels good, but there's work to be done. Start local, people.

[auem]

Trump, at least, will do enough to leave a dynastic influence in Republican Party decades to come. I won't be the surprised if one of his offspring runs for candidature in 2024.
Those within Republicans who support him are shooting at their own feet.

[RoboBlue]

I know this isn't true. But after the Four Season incident, I won't be surprised about this.

https://news.avclub.com/trump-report...ood-1845621160

Sounds true to me.

of course mitch would be one of them. god when do we get rid of this guy
[COLOR=#515151][FONT=Georgia]

i mostly loathe this idea.
the silver lining is simple: either trump splits the republican votes and denies their victory in the election where Dems have to choose their next star for President, OR tries running as a Republican candidate and loses simply by virtue of not having his zenith of appeal anymore. Either way blue wins, red curses their sinking ship.

but if there's no legal or financial force, magically, holding him back from running my stomach just turns at more years of his antics. Grover Cleveland Trump would be the worst timeline. Him sandwiching Biden whom the more left-leaning are already ambivalent on. We'd just go backwards again.

The upside is that Biden has a pretty decent chance of beating him again if he runs in 2024.

Biden's chances of winning otherwise seem pretty bleak to me, so even if he causes chaos for four more years as an outsider and a cult leader, at least we're not going to end up with Trump 2.0 at the end of Biden's first term.

He might even take the whole American fascist movement down with him in the process.

[MDL]

I know someone on my Discord server who's an avid Trump supporter,
but apparently it's only because Trump's tax cuts allowed him to escape poverty and improve his life.

The specific post:



In his eyes, Trump's cuts saved him.
That's the one and only reason he supports him.

So in this case he would actually agree with you that voting for Trump is a lifestyle choice.
Just, y'know, lifestyle being used in a different context XD


[It should be clarified that I agree with the sentiment of the forum in regards to Trump and his supporters.
I'm absolutely thrilled that Biden won and I can't wait for him to start doing the best he can with the repair job.
I just thought I'd share an outlier from a random guy in the Trump base as a minor anecdote.
I repeat, this is not an argument post in favour of Trump, God forbid.]

[auem]

^
Considering he had meagre income, did he fall under any tax slab? How much income do you need to give tax?

[theackwardstation]

Taxes can harm an economy and its citzens if poorly planned or excessive, but in this case it should be a systemic thing, like the entire economy or many of its sectors receding due to terrible taxes (among other reasons). But that was not the case in America. The economy was already growing well before Trump went to office.

It is unusual that tax cuts alone could change someone's life like that. Maybe it did, who knows, good for him, but it seems more likely that his personal growth in life (for many reasons) coincided with Trump's administration while his misery with his mother happened during the previous administration, so due his happiness he might be overestimating the impact of tax cuts in his life. I mean, the way he framed his life story is like Trump took his life from misery to the american dream with some tax cuts.

Not that I want to take this merit away from Trump's administration as I know that USA's economy was going pretty well before the pandemic, so I should give credit where credit is due. But then again I should repeat that this economic growth was already happening in a very similar rate since Obama's administration, so it's not like Trump saved the economy. What am I overlooking?

[genocyber]

What the last 4 years have shown is americans would rather prefer to live in a traditional monarchy with some democratic values on a local level. They don't respect or desire a multi party system of governing.

[Robby]

In his eyes, Trump's cuts saved him.

Does he know yet that his taxes are going to jump a ton this year because the republicans put a poison pill into the plan for taxes to hike conveniently at the same time the next guy took office?