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Thread: Sanji & Yamato

  1. #41

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Should Momonosuke join as well, we could have a new monster trio.
    Brook, franky, sanji is the best monster trio when it comes to P.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    I'm actually looking forward to when it happens. It can go really well or really bad, sure, but both way there's something to be gained:

    On one side, Sanji's wholesome moments are his best moments;

    On the other, if charachter assassination it is, let us know once and for all so we can move on.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  3. #43

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I expect it to be funny whichever way Oda decides Sanji and Yamato to react. I actually expect something new as far as the comedy goes.

    In the end, I expect Sanji to consider Yamato a man albeit an attractive one possibly.
    I could see a reoccurring gag where Yamato unknowingly does something sexy, making Sanji go gaga, only to then bash himself in the face to try and remind himself that Yamato's a 'guy'.

    This could lead to a moment where Yamato, who has a quirk where they casually behave like 'one of the guys', walks in on the male Straw Hats in a hot spring topless wanting to join them.

    Chopper would have to give Sanji another blood transfusion.

  4. #44
    Ship's sommelier Xelloss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Well. Life is difficult, you can't always have what you want. I'm sure Yamato will remind Sanji of that using his iron club.

    It'll be hilarious

    NOT EVEN CLOSE, SIR!

  5. #45
    Discovered Stowaway fana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    What I'm wondering is if Oda will have Yamato be attracted to male/female or neither. I could see Yamato forming a pervert trio with Sanji & Brook.

  6. #46
    Technological They krule274's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Sanji is without a doubt a kind hearted and caring person, but can we just remember that his personal version of hell was an island inhabited solely by drag queens and trans women? You could probably try to make a case for him not being transphobic and that his "personal hell" is only a hell specifically because he's separated from his idea of a beautiful woman and not that the island is trans/in drag, but it feels pretty clear to me. Regardless, though, if and when Yamato and Sanji interact, as crewmates or not, I could see Sanji being accepting of Yamato for who he is, but perhaps with caveats like some have mentioned above.
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  7. #47

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    The Okama on the island were all trying to DO things to Sanji, and that's where the trauma comes from, not their trans-ness.

    Either way it's been 10 years in real time since that awful gag, hopefully Oda's matured a bit since then.
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by krule274 View Post
    Sanji is without a doubt a kind hearted and caring person, but can we just remember that his personal version of hell was an island inhabited solely by drag queens and trans women? You could probably try to make a case for him not being transphobic and that his "personal hell" is only a hell specifically because he's separated from his idea of a beautiful woman and not that the island is trans/in drag, but it feels pretty clear to me. Regardless, though, if and when Yamato and Sanji interact, as crewmates or not, I could see Sanji being accepting of Yamato for who he is, but perhaps with caveats like some have mentioned above.
    Sanji was being chased and trying to be forced to have kisses by people I’ve understood fit more as cross dressers than anything else, because I don’t think many people would agree they go about things the same was as Kiku does.
    Last edited by electricmastro; June 22nd, 2021 at 10:45 AM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    They were a bit rapey tbh

  10. #50
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Very much so but I think that's part of what some ppl have a problem with Oda's depiction.

    Not that that situation can't exist.
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  11. #51
    Technological They krule274's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Fair points to the above few posts. Kiku does identify as a trans woman, while it's unclear whether the inhabitants of Kamabaka do or don't. And Sanji was being chased and forced to do things, that's true. But like Zik said, that depiction is pretty disgusting in the first place. It's a perpetuation that a cross dresser or trans woman is inherently wicked or evil, etc. Though queer coding in that sense is a whole other can of worms.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by krule274 View Post
    Fair points to the above few posts. Kiku does identify as a trans woman, while it's unclear whether the inhabitants of Kamabaka do or don't. And Sanji was being chased and forced to do things, that's true. But like Zik said, that depiction is pretty disgusting in the first place. It's a perpetuation that a cross dresser or trans woman is inherently wicked or evil, etc. Though queer coding in that sense is a whole other can of worms.
    And how the okamas are presumably based on Dr. Frank N. Furter from The Rocky Horror Picture Show, particularly Ivankov, and is understood to be based more on cross-dressing and Transvestism than being transgender. Ivankov himself is portrayed as less villainous than Frank though, and I don’t think Oda intended Ivankov and the okama as a statement of such people being bad, but that said, I think he’d be willing to apologize to anyone he has hurt because of how he drew Ivankov and the okama, as well as Bentham.



  13. #53
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    I think things would be easier if Oda just had Sanji act the same way with Kiku around Nami and Robin. He kinda did the opposite when he had Sanji react to Kokoro being a mermaid and I don't even think Sanji would've been attracted to a younger Kokoro.

    That'd draw the line that Sanji isn't rejecting cross dressing men/okama or transgenders in general just ppl he finds unattractive. It just gets weirder that those same ppl got Sanji to wear a dress and get in touch with his inner okama.

    How Oda handles and depicts okama/crossdressers is a whole other issue/problem though.
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  14. #54

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I think things would be easier if Oda just had Sanji act the same way with Kiku around Nami and Robin. He kinda did the opposite when he had Sanji react to Kokoro being a mermaid and I don't even think Sanji would've been attracted to a younger Kokoro.
    I think people get this idea of Sanji being chivalrous when he's actually pretty shallow. Like this is his reaction when hearing about Kureha.



    The way he treats women he finds attractive and those he don't are just simply way different.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    I think people get this idea of Sanji being chivalrous when he's actually pretty shallow. Like this is his reaction when hearing about Kureha.



    The way he treats women he finds attractive and those he don't are just simply way different.
    If you go back and check how he treated Kureha in person, you'd see he is actually chivalrous regardless of how the woman looks.
    You almost make it sound like he kicks unattractive/old women.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    I felt Sanji had that reaction because Kureha was legit scary, she chased him and Luffy while throwing every sharp object in the castle.
    He was regular Sanji, kind and caring, when he met her but he's glad he doesn't have to run away from flying swords again.

  17. #57
    Technological They krule274's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    And how the okamas are presumably based on Dr. Frank N. Furter from The Rocky Horror Picture Show, particularly Ivankov, and is understood to be based more on cross-dressing and Transvestism than being transgender. Ivankov himself is portrayed as less villainous than Frank though, and I don’t think Oda intended Ivankov and the okama as a statement of such people being bad, but that said, I think he’d be willing to apologize to anyone he has hurt because of how he drew Ivankov and the okama, as well as Bentham.
    I guess it just frustrates me in that sense. Rocky Horror is such an iconic movie, and seeing Oda pull from its tropes without really acknowledging that those tropes are offensive and toxic in the first place just sucks. It's not thinking through what you're doing before you present it to a global audience, and it hurts people. Plus, Bentham is a fan favorite (I think they were in the top 25 of the global poll). Hell, I love Bentham for who the character is at heart, especially because they had a turn around to being a close ally for Luffy. And Ivankov and the Newkama aren't villains, of course, but the whole thing just leaves a sour taste, and it really bums me out that Oda didn't consider how this further tarnishes different forms of trans representation in media.
    Last edited by krule274; June 23rd, 2021 at 12:50 PM.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by krule274 View Post
    I guess it just frustrates me in that sense. Rocky Horror is such an iconic movie, and seeing Oda pull from its tropes without really acknowledging that those tropes are offensive and toxic in the first place just sucks. It's not thinking through what you're doing before you present it to a global audience, and it hurts people. Plus, Bentham is a fan favorite (I think they were in the top 25 of the global pole). Hell, I love Bentham for who the character is at heart, especially because they had a turn around to being a close ally for Luffy. And Ivankov and the Newkama aren't villains, of course, but the whole thing just leaves a sour taste, and it really bums me out that Oda didn't consider how this further tarnishes different forms of trans representation in media.
    Well again, I think that at the end of the day, it really just all comes down to either people getting hurt or people not getting hurt, regardless of Oda’s original intent as a manga artist and writer. The more people Oda is hurting, the more I’m sure even he can’t so much as ignore it and instead become aware to the point that he’ll be obligated to owe an apology and change his ways to anyone that got hurt because of how his manga played out like with the okamas. I really don’t think it ought to be much more complicated beyond that, and that one shouldn’t worry so much or feel guilty for enjoying the manga otherwise, until it indeed gets to the point that it very much becomes apparent that someone got hurt because of him, and puts into question just how much respect Oda really deserves depending on what he does.

  19. #59
    Technological They krule274's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    Well again, I think that at the end of the day, it really just all comes down to either people getting hurt or people not getting hurt, regardless of Oda’s original intent as a manga artist and writer. The more people Oda is hurting, the more I’m sure even he can’t so much as ignore it and instead become aware to the point that he’ll be obligated to owe an apology and change his ways to anyone that got hurt because of how his manga played out like with the okamas. I really don’t think it ought to be much more complicated beyond that, and that one shouldn’t worry so much or feel guilty for enjoying the manga otherwise, until it indeed gets to the point that it very much becomes apparent that someone got hurt because of him, and puts into question just how much respect Oda really deserves depending on what he does.
    With regard to the topic at hand, I don't think it's necessarily justifiable in the sense that you stated. Because people ARE getting hurt and persecuted worldwide for expressing their trans identities. What I meant to express in my previous post was that it doesn't really matter if a trans person doesn't specifically read One Piece and feel hurt or offended, because the story itself is perpetuating negative stereotypes of trans people. So any person that reads One Piece is putting that story in the back of their mind. It's the power of media, if I'm making any sense here. Media is sometimes blatant and sometimes subtle. Oda doesn't come out and deliberately say negative things about trans folk, but the story doesn't do a good job of positively representing them. I'm not sitting here thinking Oda is a transphobe, because I don't believe he is, I just mean to say that if you put it out there, you're adding to the problem.
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  20. #60

    Default Re: Sanji & Yamato

    Quote Originally Posted by krule274 View Post
    With regard to the topic at hand, I don't think it's necessarily justifiable in the sense that you stated. Because people ARE getting hurt and persecuted worldwide for expressing their trans identities. What I meant to express in my previous post was that it doesn't really matter if a trans person doesn't specifically read One Piece and feel hurt or offended, because the story itself is perpetuating negative stereotypes of trans people. So any person that reads One Piece is putting that story in the back of their mind. It's the power of media, if I'm making any sense here. Media is sometimes blatant and sometimes subtle. Oda doesn't come out and deliberately say negative things about trans folk, but the story doesn't do a good job of positively representing them. I'm not sitting here thinking Oda is a transphobe, because I don't believe he is, I just mean to say that if you put it out there, you're adding to the problem.
    The cases that lead people into getting hurt and persecuted worldwide for expressing their trans identities, from what I understood so far in regards to evidence and the like, don’t correlate with how Oda has presents his manga, and will surely will be dealt with accordingly in its own time, but I’m willing to be proven wrong on that though.


    And how can trans people not feeling hurt not matter? If Oda is going as so far as to be accused of perpetuating negative stereotypes of trans people to the point that he adds to the problem and hurts them in the process, then how can that truly be something that doesn’t matter then? Won’t he have more consequences to face up to the more of a hurtful problem he’s adding onto?

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