View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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368. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yamato

    189 51.36%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.27%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc)

    1 0.27%
  • Momo

    9 2.45%
  • Tama

    9 2.45%
  • Carrot

    68 18.48%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 1.90%
  • Caribou

    6 1.63%
  • Other

    28 7.61%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    50 13.59%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #9981

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro
    […] She hasn't really demonstrated any skills or abilities beyond fighting, […]
    tbh does zoro have any skills? yamato could just be luffy‘s bodyguard so he does not have to fight scrubs

  2. #9982
    the reVolutionary flandrian15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by vlad Dracul View Post
    tbh does zoro have any skills? yamato could just be luffy‘s bodyguard so he does not have to fight scrubs
    If your definition of a bodyguard is that this function should prevent Luffy from having to fight scrubs, how is that any different from literally anyone else on the crew? Luffy didn't have to fight Kaku because Zoro did, Luffy didn't have to fight Mr. 2 because Sanji did, Luffy didn't have to fight CP9 bubble woman because Nami did, Luffy didn't have to fight Sasaki because Jimbe did, Luffy didn't have to fight Black Maria because Robin did, ...
    Remember, remember, the 5th of November

  3. #9983

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    fine i drop the bodyguard part, and replace it with „another fighter“ ala burgess
    i admit my first thought was just to be a more clingy towards luffy but that’s probably wa~~ay too lame

  4. #9984

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rean View Post
    One thing that kinda confused me about the Wano guardian deity concept is that almost all prior references to that concept were in the form of the Wisdom King, or a Myōō, which was compared to Luffy (via Hyo thinking that Luffy's 4th gear form looks exactly like a Myōō), and Oden (as seen in the Fire Festival celebrations in ch 993, see the spoilered image).
    Kaido is also referred to as a protecting Myōō (守る「明王」)... but there are references to 守り神 before Makami, such as Yasuie talking about what the Scabbards want to become in Chapter 963. I too wonder if this difference is significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rean View Post
    So it's very confusing to me that Kaido thinks of the DF that Yamato ate as representative of the Wano guardian deity (and that ppl are basing theories around this idea of his), when we've been shown no such thing. I'm thinking that it's a way for Oda to further showcase how utterly out of touch Kaido is with the people of Wano (which is expected of the head of an occupying force, as opposed to the rightful ruler of Wano), even if he is reasonably familiar with their culture.
    I also have a lot of questions about this line. It seems to open a ton of questions, such as:
    • Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?
    • Does anyone who eats the fruit is automatically a guardian?
    • It's speculated that DFs are artificially created, so how was a guardian deity of Wano created?
    • Are there other guardian deity DF's? Hyogoro said that Gear Fourth Luffy "looks like" a guardian deity, but he looked like Sengoku's Buddha, is that a guardian deity DF?
    People take the line at face value and jump to discuss what it means for Yamato's character arc. In that sense, he's doing a great job of being a red herring.

  5. #9985

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by flandrian15 View Post
    If your definition of a bodyguard is that this function should prevent Luffy from having to fight scrubs, how is that any different from literally anyone else on the crew? Luffy didn't have to fight Kaku because Zoro did, Luffy didn't have to fight Mr. 2 because Sanji did, Luffy didn't have to fight CP9 bubble woman because Nami did, Luffy didn't have to fight Sasaki because Jimbe did, Luffy didn't have to fight Black Maria because Robin did, ...
    This arc actually made a pretty focused point about "Luffy, don't waste your energy on these little guys, save it for Kaidou" with Zoro, Sanji, AND Jinbe running along with him to tank obstacles. Or how the Samurai keep getting slaughtered as soon as help leaves the room. Or how most of the crew did okay with their 1 on 1's, but had trouble when there are what would otherwise be fodder minions on the side to mess with them.

    I'm not personally a fan of "bodyguard" as a role, but it IS getting reiterated over and over this arc that the fighters need support.
    Last edited by Robby; October 13th, 2021 at 07:00 AM.
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  6. #9986
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    I also have a lot of questions about this line. It seems to open a ton of questions, such as:
    • Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?
    • Does anyone who eats the fruit is automatically a guardian?
    • It's speculated that DFs are artificially created, so how was a guardian deity of Wano created?
    • Are there other guardian deity DF's? Hyogoro said that Gear Fourth Luffy "looks like" a guardian deity, but he looked like Sengoku's Buddha, is that a guardian deity DF?
    People take the line at face value and jump to discuss what it means for Yamato's character arc. In that sense, he's doing a great job of being a red herring.
    I didn't understand that line either, but a good argument I've heard back then was that the Wanoese are superstitious dolts. The idea is that the revered guardian deity of Wano would make it easier to control the populace, just like Kaido used the legitimacy of Orochi for over 20 years to keep things in order.

    Kaido needs the Wanoese to obey to a certain degree, and forcing them to work in the factories through threats of violence might not yield good results. Like, thousands of them already threw their lifes away during the sunatchi-raid.

    ____________

    Now, what certainly doesn't add up is Kaido's intention to kill virtually everyone in the capital. Why does he need a revered mythical dog creature when there is no one left who could revere it?

    But maybe the Guardian Deity-hoax was what he planned before he teamed up with Big Mom. Now it's all about turning Wano into a Pirate Paradise - which means he also doesn't need the Wanoese anymore?


  7. #9987

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    But maybe the Guardian Deity-hoax was what he planned before he teamed up with Big Mom. Now it's all about turning Wano into a Pirate Paradise - which means he also doesn't need the Wanoese anymore?
    He's still insisting on Yamato being Wano's guardian deity minutes before Onigashima will kill everyone in the Flower Capital, so it definitely doesn't quite add up. One other line that jumps out to me when thinking about this topic is this one from Chapter 965:

    This would be the only other time that the power of the shogun was associated with a DF, so I wonder if Yamata no Orochi is in the same category as Okuchi no Makami as a guardian deity (守り神), and if there's something more substantial going on here.

  8. #9988
    Discovered Stowaway The B-Mack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?
    Maybe it was more about keeping the fruit so nobody else could use it? If the user inspires hope for the people as a guardian deity, crush their hope with no guardian and keep them subservient.

  9. #9989

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by The B-Mack View Post
    Maybe it was more about keeping the fruit so nobody else could use it? If the user inspires hope for the people as a guardian deity, crush their hope with no guardian and keep them subservient.
    Maybe, but Kaido's language implies that Yamato should be the shogun because he ate the ate the Okuchi no Makami fruit. If he was just worried about it inspiring hope, couldn't he keep Yamato locked up and make someone else the shogun?

  10. #9990

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I think Kaidou wants for Yamato to rule, as a guardian deity and symbol, so its easier to control the country.

    Orochi was recognized as a shogun but hes a bad one, and as far as we know his devil fruit is a secret and Yamata no Orochi is seen as a bad creature in japanese folklore
    If Yamato obeyd Kaidou he could replace Orochi, by being a better shogun and a symbol of the people.

    Kaidou really doesnt care about the wanonese, but because of that, he has no plan to make the citizens suffer, he just wants to make weapons.
    It was Orochi whom hated the people of the country and made sure they suffered at every opportunity.

    I think that if Yamato had played ball Kaidou wouldve killed Orochi uears ago and replaced him with a better figure head, because not only did he need the citizens to build weapons he also wants the island for something else relating to the endgame of the series.
    He needs someone to focus on managing that part while hes busy being an old school pirate, geting drunk and killing whomever. He tried to off Orochi at the start of the festival because by now the wheels are in motion and Orochi had played his part long enough but after the dust settles Kaidou would still need to pick someone to oversee the island.

  11. #9991

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    This arc actually made a pretty focused point about "Luffy, don't waste your energy on these little guys, save it for Kaidou" with Zoro, Sanji, AND Jinbe running along with him to tank obstacles. Or how the Samurai keep getting slaughtered as soon as help leaves the room. Or how most of the crew did okay with their 1 on 1's, but had trouble when there are what would otherwise be fodder minions on the side to mess with them.

    I'm not personally a fan of "bodyguard" as a role, but it IS getting reiterated over and over this arc that the fighters need support.
    After Yamato fended off Ulti for Luffy who was conserving energy, protecting Momo and Shinobu, held back Kaidou from hurting anyone else, the idea of soldiers defending something like their country, and the guardian theme of her fruit, I'd be surprised if her eventual role completely shrugged everything off of the such off. If nothing else, I'm sure it would be welcome after Nami and Usopp got headbutted by Ulti. Haha.
    Last edited by electricmastro; October 13th, 2021 at 02:57 PM.

  12. #9992
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    M3 won't change. Not dynamic wise and not well... Who cares

    Thanks for your attention

  13. #9993

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    I think Kaidou wants for Yamato to rule, as a guardian deity and symbol, so its easier to control the country.

    Orochi was recognized as a shogun but hes a bad one, and as far as we know his devil fruit is a secret and Yamata no Orochi is seen as a bad creature in japanese folklore
    If Yamato obeyd Kaidou he could replace Orochi, by being a better shogun and a symbol of the people.

    Kaidou really doesnt care about the wanonese, but because of that, he has no plan to make the citizens suffer, he just wants to make weapons.
    It was Orochi whom hated the people of the country and made sure they suffered at every opportunity.

    I think that if Yamato had played ball Kaidou wouldve killed Orochi uears ago and replaced him with a better figure head, because not only did he need the citizens to build weapons he also wants the island for something else relating to the endgame of the series.
    He needs someone to focus on managing that part while hes busy being an old school pirate, geting drunk and killing whomever. He tried to off Orochi at the start of the festival because by now the wheels are in motion and Orochi had played his part long enough but after the dust settles Kaidou would still need to pick someone to oversee the island.
    I appreciate your answer my (probably unanswerable ATM) questions, but there are a few things that still trouble me about this explanation:
    • Even if it's bad, Yamata no Orochi was presented with "the power to make you shogun". Mythical devil fruits are extremely rare in the OP world, and thus far the only thing this fruit has done has been to give multiple people a chance to behead Orochi.
    • Kaido intends to control Wano with force. He very explicitly says that Yamato says he has the ability to control people, who are afraid of him, with strength. His whole thing is forcing people into submission to obey him. The need for a symbolic guardian spirit devil fruit power to make people accept a leader is inconsistent with everything he's done and said.
    • Yamato has been totally out of control for 20 years, while Orochi has obediently manipulated Wano for 20 years. Why would Kaido insist on the one he has completely failed to control being the one he leaves the country to while he's gone?
    To be honest, I don't think we can answer these questions with the information we have available, but it's frustrating that it becomes "what does being a guardian deity mean for Yamato?" instead of "what does being being a guardian deity mean?". Then again, this is a next Strawhat thread, so maybe I'm complaining in the wrong place

  14. #9994
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    I appreciate your answer my (probably unanswerable ATM) questions, but there are a few things that still trouble me about this explanation:
    • Even if it's bad, Yamata no Orochi was presented with "the power to make you shogun". Mythical devil fruits are extremely rare in the OP world, and thus far the only thing this fruit has done has been to give multiple people a chance to behead Orochi
    This is not true.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  15. #9995

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by vlad Dracul View Post
    tbh does zoro have any skills? yamato could just be luffy‘s bodyguard so he does not have to fight scrubs
    Well aside from specifically with swordsmanship, he's pretty good at tactics. Not necessarily coming up with plans and strategies ahead of time. but coming up with them in the middle of the heated moment.

  16. #9996

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    This is not true.
    How so? Orochi hasn't participated in any fights, and he has been beheaded 7(?) times. I suppose you could say he used the power to threaten Hiyori and CP0, but how is that something that requires a Mythical DF?

  17. #9997

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    I appreciate your answer my (probably unanswerable ATM) questions, but there are a few things that still trouble me about this explanation:
    • Even if it's bad, Yamata no Orochi was presented with "the power to make you shogun". Mythical devil fruits are extremely rare in the OP world, and thus far the only thing this fruit has done has been to give multiple people a chance to behead Orochi.
    • Kaido intends to control Wano with force. He very explicitly says that Yamato says he has the ability to control people, who are afraid of him, with strength. His whole thing is forcing people into submission to obey him. The need for a symbolic guardian spirit devil fruit power to make people accept a leader is inconsistent with everything he's done and said.
    • Yamato has been totally out of control for 20 years, while Orochi has obediently manipulated Wano for 20 years. Why would Kaido insist on the one he has completely failed to control being the one he leaves the country to while he's gone?
    To be honest, I don't think we can answer these questions with the information we have available, but it's frustrating that it becomes "what does being a guardian deity mean for Yamato?" instead of "what does being being a guardian deity mean?". Then again, this is a next Strawhat thread, so maybe I'm complaining in the wrong place
    I was getting insterested in the discussion, might as well jump in.

    The part about the only power Orochi has is to be decapitated several times got me in stiches, for real, but I think overall such devil fruit is very powerfull. Sure we're seeing a bad guy who used to focus on lying and cheating, he didn't train on how to use his df better nor did he even train to get himself stronger. On some other island or sea just having the df would be enough but here it looks weak by comparission.

    To me Kaidou's and Orochi's relationship was very uneven.
    Orochi thought that he and Kaidou were partners, and altough he found Kaidou scary he felt like he still had some leverage. But Kaidou couldn't give two shits about Orochi himself, he wanted Wano, he wanted weapons, and Orochi could give him that without him raiding the country and enslaving all those people himself. Orochi was a great tool to achieve his goals, but the only great ruler of Wano Kaidou seems to have ever recognized was Oden, because he was strong enough to face in battle despite being ridiculed while dancing on the street.

    And Yamato was supposed to get on with the plan.
    Grow up to be the strong descendent of Kaidou, and a symbol of Wano, and rule almighty. But Yamato spent his life telling his father that he was a mean sack of shit and that Wano should be free. Kaidou's plan was to beat Yams into submission, either physically or mentaly, but it never worked and he still yaps on about it. "You should be the ruler and figure-head and be strong, and serve me!"
    Kaidou is still protective of his stuff and his favorite soldiers, like when he told Jack to stand down since he fought hard enough already. I imagine that's how he expected Yamato to be, be the strongest, pick the second/third/etc strongest for the crew inner circle, and then have a bunch of mooks to order around.

  18. #9998

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Damn, we reached 500 pages. It took like whatm a year?

  19. #9999

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    The part about the only power Orochi has is to be decapitated several times got me in stiches, for real, but I think overall such devil fruit is very powerfull. Sure we're seeing a bad guy who used to focus on lying and cheating, he didn't train on how to use his df better nor did he even train to get himself stronger. On some other island or sea just having the df would be enough but here it looks weak by comparission.
    True, and I'm not trying to say it's a bad fruit (especially since the quality of the user is much more important than the fruit itself, as we've seen). It's just that it was presented as having the "power" to make Orochi shogun, and the original Japanese even emphasized the word "power" (”力”):

    we haven't seen any pay off for this "power", so I'm just speculating that maybe the Okuchi no Makami has the same "power" since both of these quotes relate to the user becoming shogun.

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    To me Kaidou's and Orochi's relationship was very uneven.
    Orochi thought that he and Kaidou were partners, and altough he found Kaidou scary he felt like he still had some leverage. But Kaidou couldn't give two shits about Orochi himself, he wanted Wano, he wanted weapons, and Orochi could give him that without him raiding the country and enslaving all those people himself. Orochi was a great tool to achieve his goals, but the only great ruler of Wano Kaidou seems to have ever recognized was Oden, because he was strong enough to face in battle despite being ridiculed while dancing on the street.

    And Yamato was supposed to get on with the plan.
    Grow up to be the strong descendent of Kaidou, and a symbol of Wano, and rule almighty. But Yamato spent his life telling his father that he was a mean sack of shit and that Wano should be free. Kaidou's plan was to beat Yams into submission, either physically or mentaly, but it never worked and he still yaps on about it. "You should be the ruler and figure-head and be strong, and serve me!"
    Kaidou is still protective of his stuff and his favorite soldiers, like when he told Jack to stand down since he fought hard enough already. I imagine that's how he expected Yamato to be, be the strongest, pick the second/third/etc strongest for the crew inner circle, and then have a bunch of mooks to order around.
    This is all very reasonable, and I think there's a good chance you're on the right track. My question is: does any of this change if the Okuchi no Makami fruit is locked in a box under Kaido's bed? Kaido seems to want Yamato to be shogun because he ate the fruit, and we know that Kaido did not intend for Yamato to eat the fruit, at least while he was calling himself Oden.

  20. #10000

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    Kaido is also referred to as a protecting Myōō (守る「明王」)... but there are references to 守り神 before Makami, such as Yasuie talking about what the Scabbards want to become in Chapter 963. I too wonder if this difference is significant.
    Interesting, I personally didn't spot this. Wonder how far Oda will take that idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    I also have a lot of questions about this line. It seems to open a ton of questions, such as:
    • Why does Kaido care about what the DF is, let alone go out of his way to get the fruit? His plan is to enslave the whole country, so why does it matter whether the shogun has a symbolic DF?
    • Does anyone who eats the fruit is automatically a guardian?
    • It's speculated that DFs are artificially created, so how was a guardian deity of Wano created?
    • Are there other guardian deity DF's? Hyogoro said that Gear Fourth Luffy "looks like" a guardian deity, but he looked like Sengoku's Buddha, is that a guardian deity DF?
    People take the line at face value and jump to discuss what it means for Yamato's character arc. In that sense, he's doing a great job of being a red herring.
    All of these are great questions. If I had to answer them:

    * I think he cares more about having a powerful Zoan DF (he already ate his fruit when Rocks met his downfall), and is probably disappointed that someone as disobedient as Yamato took it.
    * Probably not. I feel that this is Kaido's way of designing his New Onigashima Project to remove all of his headaches and achieve his aims, and the subjugation of Yamato is one of them.
    * This will probably be explored later, but my theory is that DFs were the Ancient Kingdom's way of preserving their culture and life? It's a crummy theory though as it doesn't cover everything tho.
    * Luffy's G4 form was apparently based on an Wisdom King to begin with (read it somewhere in the wiki, so take it with a shovelful of salt), so it's interesting that Oda is expanding on this idea now..
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    I didn't understand that line either, but a good argument I've heard back then was that the Wanoese are superstitious dolts. The idea is that the revered guardian deity of Wano would make it easier to control the populace, just like Kaido used the legitimacy of Orochi for over 20 years to keep things in order.
    Ever since the Oden execution, Orochi never had any real legitimacy, the only reason he continued to rule is because Kaido was impossible to beat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Now, what certainly doesn't add up is Kaido's intention to kill virtually everyone in the capital. Why does he need a revered mythical dog creature when there is no one left who could revere it?

    But maybe the Guardian Deity-hoax was what he planned before he teamed up with Big Mom. Now it's all about turning Wano into a Pirate Paradise - which means he also doesn't need the Wanoese anymore?
    Reminder that Kaido and Orochi don't know that the entirety of Wano are partying in the Capital, as far as they know, the Capital people are keeping to their class-ist rules about not allowing poor people into the Capital. I have no idea what new workers he will gain from this though, given that the additional workers were gonna be the Capital people, who are now scheduled to be squashed in 5 minutes.

    He also mentioned the deity thing to Yamato after he declared his plans to have him be shogun + his alliance with Big Mom (all were announced as part of his New Onigashima Project).

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