View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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368. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yamato

    189 51.36%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.27%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc)

    1 0.27%
  • Momo

    9 2.45%
  • Tama

    9 2.45%
  • Carrot

    68 18.48%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 1.90%
  • Caribou

    6 1.63%
  • Other

    28 7.61%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    50 13.59%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #9821
    Partly Sunny Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    In terms of set-up for Yamato, Oda already started incorporating the relevance of Yamato since the start of the Wano Kuni Arc but just not in a manner the readers could understand at that time. But if one looks back on how Oda scripted the story, shades of "Yamato" can be noticed. I've stated it before at the start of the year but Yamato's set-up/foreshadow existed before Oda included his first partial in-panel appearance in chapter 971 and dropped the existence of Kaido's child in chapter 977. Oda appears to not have wanted to mention Yamato's name/existence until he had introduced Oden and covered his story as a Roger Pirates member.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    Oda had already tied Ace's story to Wano Kuni during the Battle of Marineford, so he would have been planning in advance how to substantiate that story. Once Oda had a clearer idea of how he wished to portray Wano Kuni (controlled by Kaido and with Wano being the origin of the Poneglyphs), he could have started out conceiving his ideas for Tama and Yamato's story. Considering the moments highlighted between Ace and Tama take place after Ace met Yamato (timewise), Oda would have likely already conceptualised Yamato's role to a extent at that point in time. When Ace was interacting with Tama, he was talking about leaving Wano to return with a bigger crew which implies that any desire he had at attacking Kaido had dissipated by that point (it would be unlike Ace to at least try beforehand to help people in need in front of him, especially if it involved kidnapped children). This could be where Oda began playing around with the ideas of Yamato fighting Ace, befriending him and possibly being Kaido's child. By chapter 912, Oda already knew that he wanted Ace to have realised he was no match for Kaido and consequently was not able to liberate Wano Kuni which explains why he had Ace discuss with Tama his desire to return to Wano with a bigger crew to eventually transform it into a place where Tama can eat as much as she wants once he returns (chapter 918). Such dialog conveys a deeper story in play with Ace which Oda already put into motion by chapter 912. From my perspective, Oda would have been thinking about the events to play out when Ace tried to stop Kaido [and met Yamato] by this point and likely even before the Wano Kuni Arc officially began (chapter 909).

    Everything so far in the New World story has been building up to the climax of the Wano Kuni story and that includes Momonosuke's role. Yamato will be integral in helping Momonosuke realise his importance and may also have relevance in helping Momonosuke control his Artificial Dragon/Koi Devil Fruit that has been a plot thread since chapter 685. Will the Artificial Devil Fruit be relevant during the Wano Kuni Arc or will it come into play later in the story when Momonosuke as Shogun of Wano Kuni "challenges" Im and the World Government?

    Even if Yamato was not conceived near the start of the One Piece story, there are ways to tie their role to elements introduced/foreshadowed earlier in the story. I have theorised on a few across my posts relating to Yamato's potential.

    [...]

    And if Yamato does have a role in helping Momonosuke control his Artificial Dragon/Koi Devil Fruit it could indicate that Oda has been planning "Yamato" for some time (some idea of a character that would help Momonosuke since the moment Vegapunk's Artificial Devil Fruit was consumed - chapter 685).

    There exist several ways to tie Yamato back to earlier plot threads to give the impression that their place within the crew has been foreshadowed. The case is not so cut and dried for Yamato as of yet.
    The character "Yamato" was ostensively not just conceptionalized during the events of Wano Kuni, Oda had been thinking about such a character and the role they would serve long before. Details may have been ironed out prior to Yamato's official appearance/introduction but as per the story Oda had Yamato in mind for some time. Like how Oda connected Yamato the vivre card Ace possessed, there are possible other ways to give context to Yamato's character in the story that came before. The relevance of the Dragon-themed design of the Ryuugu Palace in Fish-Man Island may also be another thread Yamato is connected to due to his association with Kaido, the Uo Uo no Mi, Model: Seiryu, and Oden's journal.

    If readers merely reduce Yamato's story, role and character to the notion of hype, they are seemingly robbing themselves of appreciating the practicality in play. Possibilities exist and at this point, the possibility of Yamato sailing aboard the Thousand Sunny along side Luffy is a very real one that has foundation, development and future. The reverse can also apply and that is what makes discussion so fascinating.

  2. #9822

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by IIskandar1997 View Post
    Where did I say that Yamato is trying to stop being Oden???
    You said,"My guess is that he will start calling her by her name when her identity crisis is solved." In order for Yamato to solve this "identity crisis," he/she would have to acknowledge a crisis or make some attempt to resolve it. To date, he hasn't treated his identity as a problem. You the reader have. That's the point I'm making. Until or unless Yamato acknowledges this "identity crises," there's nothing to solve.

    I said that it will eventually happen because this type of behavior doesnt fit a story, is nonsensical and unhealthy, did you skip how almost every time she proclained to be Oden people got weirded out?
    Your opinion on what type of behavior fits the story isn't really relevant. This is the way the author has chosen to portray the character. Sure, you can have an opinion on the character's portrayal or direction, but what you think is nonsensical or unhealthy doesn't really matter. There are characters with traits and qualities that I don't like such as Sanji's womanizing, but it doesn't matter what I think is "normal" because that's the way the author has chosen to portray him.

    Even Luffy, who accepts most stuff, the only ones that didnt were the samurai in the cave, and she doesnt identify as a man she identifies as Oden and that has been argued ad nauseum already.
    Yamato has chosen to identify as a man because Oden was a man. Kaido calls Yamato his son. Again, just because you think it's some sort of problem because of how he/she identifies doesn't mean it is. If Luffy, Kaido, and tons of other characters can refer to him as Kaido's son or a male, then I don't see why this is even a relevant topic.

    My point is that this is the most likely route that her character will go through, I cant see the story continuing with her still wanting to be him, she will forever love and idolize him but as her own separate person and will achieve her dreams like that, and I belive that only then Luffy will start to call her by her name though this last part could happen before too
    Sure. It's entirely possible. My point is that we haven't seen anything yet in the 50+ chapters since the character's reveal that shows some sort of internalized identity conflict. Until we do, we should treat the Oden thing like a feature that the author intended rather than some sort of a bug that needs to be "fixed."

  3. #9823

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    So in the case that neither Carrot or Yamato joins this arc, do we think the last member will be someone we already know about or a new character entirely

  4. #9824
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by IIskandar1997 View Post
    Its idolization taken to another level, yes, but thats not the root or the whole story behind it imo, we have seen many cases of extreme idolization in one piece but nothing like her and Kaido's explanation of her past points towards that. And how am I making stuff up? Isnt she the child of Kaido? the one that was raised in onigashima all alone? thats not the same as the person that she wants to become i.e Oden.
    The part you made up was the "true nature" of Yamato as the "on princess".

    You're assuming that what you see isn't what you get. While there's most likely more to be revealed about Yamato's past he may simply someone who deeply respects and admires samurai and has an extreme level of utilization for Oden to the point he wants to be Oden.

    Also they are indeed benchmarks, she even asked Luffy if it was truly ok to go help Momo and them corrected herself, because "of course its ok he is my son", and when Luffy said that she couldn't be Oden because he was loved by all she literally says that he i
    "is more Oden than her", as if there is a list of check marks and Luffy has more of them checked, because again, she literally isnt Oden, she wants to become him and she is trying to fill those checkmarks and then she will(in her mind) become Oden, she even told Ulti " thisbis the day I become Oden" iirc, because she isnt him yet, she goes back and forth with this
    Recognizing that Luffy may be Oden than he is does not mean there are benchmarks.

    Yamato isn't going around saying today I'll try to defeat Kaido, 100 Oden points for trying, a million Oden points if I win. 50k Oden points for taking part in the raid, 100k Oden points if I join Luffy cuz I think he'll be the next pirate king. That's not what's happening. I think you just really misinterpreted what Yamato meant or what Oda was going for.

    Yamato can identify character traits in other ppl and is simply comparing them to things Oden has done and recognizing those actions as Oden like or not.

    As far as going back and forth on being Oden. Yamato clearly has a desire to keep up pursuing to be more like Oden and being Oden. Part of that is already calling himself Oden to further commit to that.

    Its interesting the samurai don't even question Yamato's claim and/or desire cuz they get the gist of it.

    It isn't some identity crisis that needs to be confronted and resolved as character development. Its just taking the concept of a role model in to overdrive.

    The more Oda does not frame that as an issue in the story Yamato has to deal with or in any way depicts as a negative or drawback to his character the less it'll most likely be addressed. I've said both before but Oda can easily just turn Yamato wanting to still be Oden after Wano in to his unique quirk. I also said, the way things are being set up in Wano with Momo being aged up, most likely looking like his father, and saving the country Yamato may just say 'Wano doesn't need two Odens so I'm definitely leaving with the strawhats.'
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  5. #9825

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    You didnt even elaborate how that makes you think Yamato is late addition, even tho you admit that's agreat setup.
    Yup sorry, I was talking only about the vivre card > Ace > Marineford. Not Yamato who is a late addition and not a setup in that manner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    In terms of set-up for Yamato, Oda already started incorporating the relevance of Yamato since the start of the Wano Kuni Arc but just not in a manner the readers could understand at that time. But if one looks back on how Oda scripted the story, shades of "Yamato" can be noticed. I've stated it before at the start of the year but Yamato's set-up/foreshadow existed before Oda included his first partial in-panel appearance in chapter 971 and dropped the existence of Kaido's child in chapter 977. Oda appears to not have wanted to mention Yamato's name/existence until he had introduced Oden and covered his story as a Roger Pirates member.
    Those are not enough to be considered setups, they are hint at best and still very late into the story. A setup must be a lot clearer than that.

    As for Ace retrieve, it could have been because of anything, nothings tells us that it is because of Kaido's son. So the reveletation is still a late one. And even then we can't be sure that it was Oda's intent.

    Oda didn't needed to mentionned Yamato's name, just the mention of "Kaido's son" would have been enough. It did not happened until very late and that is exceptionnal by Oda's standards.

    For the moment, nothing proves that Yamato was conceptionalized early.

  6. #9826

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    The more Oda does not frame that as an issue in the story Yamato has to deal with or in any way depicts as a negative or drawback to his character the less it'll most likely be addressed.
    I definitely agree with this, but it shouldn't be forgotten that every character in the present besides Kaido that heard Yamato talk about being Oden was confused (specifically Luffy, Ulti, Momonosuke, Shinobu, arguably BP fodder in Ch1014). The only ones who didn't react this way were Kaido and the samurai in the cave, both of whom first heard it as the aspiration of an 8 year old. It doesn't appear that Yamato said anything about being Oden to Ace, so we can't say there. It's been a while since we've seen these negative reactions, but the fact that Oda included them for every new character to hear "I am/became Oden" means there's still a good chance it's going to be addressed.

  7. #9827

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    So in the case that neither Carrot or Yamato joins this arc, do we think the last member will be someone we already know about or a new character entirely
    This arc could realistically end in about 25 chapters, and quite likely less than that.

    If Yamato doesn't change his mind(of which we have no signs at all), he's in.

  8. #9828

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    This arc could realistically end in about 25 chapters, and quite likely less than that.

    If Yamato doesn't change his mind(of which we have no signs at all), he's in.
    There is no hint of Yamato joining if she doesn't change her mind. if Carrot doesn't join, no one will join.Carrot as been setup as the look out more than we can count. This is the last post, there is none other.

  9. #9829
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by IIskandar1997 View Post
    Where did I say that Yamato is trying to stop being Oden??? I said that it will eventually happen because this type of behavior doesnt fit a story, is nonsensical and unhealthy, did you skip how almost every time she proclained to be Oden people got weirded out? Even Luffy, who accepts most stuff, the only ones that didnt were the samurai in the cave, and she doesnt identify as a man she identifies as Oden and that has been argued ad nauseum already. My point is that this is the most likely route that her character will go through, I cant see the story continuing with her still wanting to be him, she will forever love and idolize him but as her own separate person and will achieve her dreams like that, and I belive that only then Luffy will start to call her by her name though this last part could happen before too
    Yeah and every time it was played off as a joke. It became so repetitive it was looking like one of those Oda gags he makes up for characters.

    That first part where you claim it doesn't fit the story (which is bullshit, nonsensical (despite the why being thoroughly explained), and unhealthy (subjective opinion surely not from an expert on mental health) reminds me a lot of some fans take on Sanji when it comes to his father's gene modifying goals to make his children in to weapons to maintain the Germa kingdom as him being a Nazi in everything but name minus the racist genocide and the notion that if Sanji does end up displaying that Judge's modifications ended up developing in him that would be some sort of affirmative stance on Nazis and Sanji as some Aryan ubermensch character. Its solely a western perspective that doesn't take account of Oda being a Japanese man of a certain age living in a country with a very different take on world war II. The claims that Oda is potentially sending the wrong message ,etc.

    Both of these things just seem like unnecessary reaches that don't actually exist in the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    I definitely agree with this, but it shouldn't be forgotten that every character in the present besides Kaido that heard Yamato talk about being Oden was confused (specifically Luffy, Ulti, Momonosuke, Shinobu, arguably BP fodder in Ch1014). The only ones who didn't react this way were Kaido and the samurai in the cave, both of whom first heard it as the aspiration of an 8 year old. It doesn't appear that Yamato said anything about being Oden to Ace, so we can't say there. It's been a while since we've seen these negative reactions, but the fact that Oda included them for every new character to hear "I am/became Oden" means there's still a good chance it's going to be addressed.
    It makes sense for Luffy, Momo, Shinobu, and anybody else in the alliance to react that way and I wouldn't call them negative reactions just questioning/confused/challenging ones but I think you have to notice the consistency of the inconsistencies. Oda is establishing Yamato wanting to be Oden since he was 8 years old. So for 20 years he has been saying this.

    When he tells this to Kaido he never reacts confused. He accepts and immediately says well if you want it that way I'll treat you that way and this is before Kaido needed Yamato as some puppet shogun cuz he ate that specific mythological devil fruit. The samurai also immediately understood and accept Yamato's claim. They even put some stock/hope in him saying he'll help free Wano in 20 years that Oden foretold. These two opposing sides just flow with Yamato saying that.

    Now on the other side of the coin where things remain consistently inconsistent is Oda wants this to be a gag. So Yamato has been saying he is Oden for 20 years, he's been openly opposing and challenging Kaido for 20 years. All of the Beast pirates know this. When Kaido gives the tobbi roppo a chance to be all stars they all are quite familiar on how big of the task reining Yamato in will actually be. Some don't even bother attempting to do it knowing its not worth it. Ulti and Page One have been Beast pirates since they were children. Yet she also acts confused with what Yamato says. I bet when they were kids that's probably exactly why they didn't get along or play with Yamato. 'This kid keeps talking about being a dead man!'

    I don't think she's hearing Yamato say that for the first time. I just think upon meeting and being around Yamato long enough they all recognize this as the young master says a lot of crazy shit; 'Kaido's kid sure is saying some off the wall stuff. Isn't she a she? Why does he refer to her as son and not daughter anyway?' has surely been asked by every new member at some point after meeting or hearing about Yamato for the first time and the reply was probably 'Don't question the captain. Just roll with it.'. I mean the fodder beast pirates who are chasing Yamato around during his introduction don't even react to the shit he's saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarrotForNakama View Post
    There is no hint of Yamato joining if she doesn't change her mind.
    Well that's just wrong.

    Yamato fits a bunch of patterns of how previous strawhats have joined the crew.

    if Carrot doesn't join, no one will join.Carrot as been setup as the look out more than we can count. This is the last post, there is none other.
    This is inconsequential. A lookout has never been presented as a need or want for the crew especially not from Luffy or any of the smarter members who would make such comments.

    Not to mention nothing in the story points to Carrot having better eyesight than Usopp. So its not even something she's the best at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    So in the case that neither Carrot or Yamato joins this arc, do we think the last member will be someone we already know about or a new character entirely
    Probably a new character.

    Something has to match or top former warlord joining. If it's not only child of a yonkou then it's gotta be something else buzzworthy.

    Still think it'd be cool if Luffy actually emanated to gett another D. character to join. Former celestial dragon is up there, former cipher pol agent is too (I don't consider any of masked cipher pol agents to be ppl we already know). I kinda doubt a new marine character switching sides would work and make sense at this stage (especially since I already don't think it makes any sense for Smoker to join).

    Maybe Oda goes back to the beginning and has a mountain bandit join.
    Last edited by Zik; October 10th, 2021 at 01:22 AM.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  10. #9830

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Yeah and every time it was played off as a joke. It became so repetitive it was looking like one of those Oda gags he makes up for characters.
    The difference is that inherited will is a central theme of One Piece, and that's exactly what Yamato is trying to do, as explicitly stated. Yamato is taking too far, and Oda has signaled that he's aware of this by having every character that hears "I am Oden" react with confusion.

  11. #9831
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    The difference is that inherited will is a central theme of One Piece, and that's exactly what Yamato is trying to do, as explicitly stated. Yamato is taking too far, and Oda has signaled that he's aware of this by having every character that hears "I am Oden" react with confusion.
    Don't see why it can't be both.

    Yamato taking wanting to be Oden too far can be a joke.

    Yamato can also inherit Oden's will by helping open Wano's borders, saving Wano, helping beat Kaido, going off to be free, become a pirate and help the next pirate king and/or the next Joyboy bring about the dawn of the world.

    I don't really see characters having just met Yamato being confused by his "I am Oden" claims as Oda raising an issue that needs to be addressed later on. Especially since Yamato usually explains his reasoning right after it is questioned. Did it with Luffy and then did it with Momo which allowed him to pass off the journal.

    No reason to explain himself to a Beast pirate.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  12. #9832

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by CarrotForNakama View Post
    This is the last post, there is none other.
    Based on what? Before Robin no one would have guessed that archaeologist is a position that has to be filled...

    "There will be an answer, let it be."

  13. #9833

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Yeah and every time it was played off as a joke. It became so repetitive it was looking like one of those Oda gags he makes up for characters.

    Well that's just wrong.

    Yamato fits a bunch of patterns of how previous strawhats have joined the crew.

    I'm not talking about the pattern but the fact that changing her mind would magicaly put her a the strawhat pass. There is indeed a FEW pattern that yamato checks out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    This is inconsequential. A lookout has never been presented as a need or want for the crew especially not from Luffy or any of the smarter members who would make such comments.

    Wrong. The look out need is ALL OVER the story. It can be little panels, discussion about the post, the needs inerant to the sleep schedule reported by Oda in the SBS.. the need for the look out post and a GOOD one has been already setup multiple time in the story and FROM Luffy in chapter 304, and that without even mentionning how helpfull was the look out post in whole cake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Not to mention nothing in the story points to Carrot having better eyesight than Usopp. So its not even something she's the best at.
    i had this argument before.
    First : Usopp is not a lookout, it's a cannonier, a sniper and a lyer. In battle on sea, Usopp has other things to do that to be in the lookout post.
    Second: Eyesight is just one of the parameters for a good look out. Actuelly, the eyesight does not count, the ability to go high and fast is far better as the higher you go, the farthest you can see. Same Haki is not relevant on sea, the look-out is here to see ships movments, not people.
    Third: In the non canon territory (the games) Carrot is always depicted as having a good eyesigh

    I can go on.. the fact is that Carrot has been design as a look out from the start.. from her design to her personnality and this is undeniable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhenja View Post
    Based on what? Before Robin no one would have guessed that archaeologist is a position that has to be filled...
    Based on the story. To be relevant, a post needs to be introduced first in the story. Robin is the only exception but even with her this would not have been impossible to explore.

    Robin is what I call the "cap giver". A "cap giver" is one of the most important member of a crew because they are the ones who give purpose to the direction that will take the ship. They are the reason why the ship will be headed in one direction rather than another. They are the road.

    You can see that in real life with people like Chris Colombus who was only part of a crew as the one who give the direction.
    in fact you can see this analogy being represented in the story the very moment Robin is first introduced into the story:

    Chapter 114 named "Shinro" or "the cap/the road" This is the moment Oda make Robin give the first direction for the crew, a direction that will be first refused by Luffy.

    Robin is an exception but her role was also setup in the story long before her actual recruitment. It needs to be the same for all the strawhats.

    -
    Last edited by CarrotForNakama; October 10th, 2021 at 02:41 AM.

  14. #9834
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by CarrotForNakama View Post
    I'm not talking about the pattern but the fact that changing her mind would magicaly put her a the strawhat pass.
    Not sure what you're talking about here.

    The idea that Yamato will change his mind about wanting to leave Wano is baseless speculation. It doesn't mean anything.






    Wrong. The look out need is ALL OVER the story. It can be little panels, discussion about the post, the needs inerant to the sleep schedule reported by Oda in the SBS.. the need for the look out post and a GOOD one has been already setup multiple time in the story and FROM Luffy in chapter 304, and that without even mentionning how helpfull was the look out post in whole cake.
    This couldn't be more meaningless.

    Never has been a need given how the rest of the crew have effortlessly performed the task.

    The sleep schedule is not evidence of anything especially since Oda isn't depicting the crew constantly being surprised attacked while most of the crew is sleeping.

    Chapter 304 is actually a great example of Usopp's amazing eyesight. Its on display once again as being the best amongst the crew. He does the job of lookout effortlessly and it wasn't even his shift/duty at the time.

    Luffy never expresses a need for a lookout in that chapter. He and Usopp admonishes Robin for not doing the job well and then she does. The chapter is a good example of why the position isn't a need on the crew and how anyone can do it. The only time the crew expresses a need is for a shipwright to fix the Merry.
    i had this argument before.
    First : Usopp is not a lookout, it's a cannonier, a sniper and a lyer. In battle on sea, Usopp has other things to do that to be in the lookout post.
    Second: Eyesight is just one of the parameters for a good look out. Actuelly, the eyesight does not count, the ability to go high and fast is far better as the higher you go, the farthest you can see. Same Haki is not relevant on sea, the look-out is here to see ships movments, not people.
    Third: In the non canon territory (the games) Carrot is always depicted as having a good eyesigh

    I can go on.. the fact is that Carrot has been design as a look out from the start.. from her design to her personnality and this is undeniable.
    I didn't say Usopp was a lookout.

    I said he has better eyesight than Carrot so she isn't even the best at what she's apparently been set up to be.

    You add Usopp's use of binoculars and it really does eliminate the need.

    Non-canon means exactly that. It does not matter.

    Also saying Carrot was created to be a lookout as if there's one design for lookouts or one personality for them and that it is undeniable is pure bullshit. You could go on but that would not change.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  15. #9835
    Partly Sunny Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by CarrotForNakama View Post
    Those are not enough to be considered setups, they are hint at best and still very late into the story. A setup must be a lot clearer than that.

    As for Ace retrieve, it could have been because of anything, nothings tells us that it is because of Kaido's son. So the reveletation is still a late one. And even then we can't be sure that it was Oda's intent.

    Oda didn't needed to mentionned Yamato's name, just the mention of "Kaido's son" would have been enough. It did not happened until very late and that is exceptionnal by Oda's standards.

    For the moment, nothing proves that Yamato was conceptionalized early.
    The very existence of Ace meeting Yamato and Momonosuke learning from Yamato establishes the possibility that Oda had derived Yamato's character from the start of Wano and potentially even earlier.

    With Ace's story, Oda would have scripted events out when detailing his interactions with Tama. We know Ace met Yamato when details of the event presented itself in chapter 999. Just because the reader had no idea of the specifics during that time Tama talked about Ace does not mean Oda had no idea about Yamato's relevance in the events. The fact that Oda specifically had Ace tell Tama he would return to Wano AFTER getting a bigger crew expresses that in Oda's mind he already set-up Ace and Yamato's meeting. By chapter 912, concepts of Yamato's existence was in Oda's mind. Oda intentionally held off on mentioning Yamato's name and existence because he possibly wished to first introduce Oden (a major figure in Yamato's life). By keeping the reveal for where he positioned it, Oda purposefully built up momentum for Yamato's character which worked considering the positive reception Yamato has gotten in both the manga and now the anime.

    At the very least Yamato was being planned by Oda at the start of the Wano Kuni. Arguments can even be made for Oda having conceptualized Yamato much earlier through the plot thread of Momonosuke's consuming Vegapunk's Artificial Devil Fruit. Oda by starting such a story arc already knew the Artificial Devil Fruit was a copy of Kaido's and he would have already planned out Momonosuke's general story arc which includes Momonosuke learning about utilizing his Mythical Dragon form abilities as per the latest chapter (1027). The moment Oda had Momonosuke consume the Artificial Devil Fruit, how do you think he intended to have Momonosuke learn about using his Mythical Dragon abilities when he began fighting in the Wano Arc? Oda would have mapped out Momonosuke's general story arc before initiating it. During the Punk Hazard Arc Oda could have already planned to introduce a mentor for Momonosuke when he arrived in Wano. The concept of this mentor eventually turned into Yamato as Oda finalized the details of the Wano Kuni Arc. By Punk Hazard, Oda generally knew what he wanted to do with Momonosuke. Readers may argue that Yamato being so close with Momonosuke reduces his chances of joining the Straw Hat Pirates but I argue the opposite. The closer Oda links Yamato to Momonosuke, the more he expresses how much he has planned Yamato before his introduction.

    Broadening ones perspective shows that Oda had ideas and concept for "Yamato's" existence for quite sometime, much earlier than when he officially revealed "Yamato's" existence.

  16. #9836

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Not sure what you're talking about here.

    The idea that Yamato will change his mind about wanting to leave Wano is baseless speculation. It doesn't mean anything.
    I agree


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Never has been a need given how the rest of the crew have effortlessly performed the task.
    The rest of the crew are not look out. In a battle they have other things to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    The sleep schedule is not evidence of anything especially since Oda isn't depicting the crew constantly being surprised attacked while most of the crew is sleeping.
    Yes this IS an evidence. And an UNDENIABLE one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Chapter 304 is actually a great example of Usopp's amazing eyesight. Its on display once again as being the best amongst the crew. He does the job of lookout effortlessly and it wasn't even his shift/duty at the time.
    Liike I said, we do not care about Usopp's eyesight, Usopp is not a lookout but a sniper. And no Usopp do just the minimum requiered for the post :
    - He can't have a complete sleep schedule
    - He can't jump high and fast on the post, he needs to crawl to it
    - He is scared most of the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Luffy never expresses a need for a lookout in that chapter. He and Usopp admonishes Robin for not doing the job well and then she does. The chapter is a good example of why the position isn't a need on the crew and how anyone can do it. The only time the crew expresses a need is for a shipwright to fix the Merry.
    In the story the need is not always done in an obvious manner like the Musician or the shipwright or the cook, sometimes it's done subtle. Like for Jinbe with the helm. Luffy did not expresses clearly that he wanted a look-out, but he expressed CLEARLY his NEEDS for the position and that all that matter. And no, the chapter is not a proff that anyone can do it, that's the opposite, you are being dishonnest here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I didn't say Usopp was a lookout.
    yup I know i'm just going ahead of the argument.. i know this will come up so I debunk it right away.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Also saying Carrot was created to be a lookout as if there's one design for lookouts or one personality for them and that it is undeniable is pure bullshit. You could go on but that would not change.

    There IS an optimized design for the look-out post:

    - Must be able to go high and fast
    - If can stay in the air, that's a plus
    - Must be really enjoyable about discovery (Luffy)

    For that a rabbit mink amazed by everything is the PITCH PERFECT character for the look out post in term of narration.

    But If you add to that the fact that the look-out is basically the person who see the world with a wide eye.. you can see how Carrot's characterisation and her non knowledge of the world fits perfectly the role. It's just a matter of narration and milking. Carrot is a look-out in her design, in her character, even in her habbits. She the is perfect look-out for Luffy. And that is undeniable i'm sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    The very existence of Ace meeting Yamato and Momonosuke learning from Yamato establishes the possibility that Oda had derived Yamato's character from the start of Wano and potentially even earlier. [...] The fact that Oda specifically had Ace tell Tama he would return to Wano AFTER getting a bigger crew expresses that in Oda's mind he already set-up Ace and Yamato's meeting. [...] At the very least Yamato was being planned by Oda at the start of the Wano Kuni
    it's a possibility, it's not a given. For all we know Oda could have simply made Ace go back first without even encountering kaido. We have no proof of that

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    The moment Oda had Momonosuke consume the Artificial Devil Fruit, how do you think he intended to have Momonosuke learn about using his Mythical Dragon abilities when he began fighting in the Wano Arc?
    There is a lot of possibilities. There is not just one pass to write a story.
    Last edited by CarrotForNakama; October 10th, 2021 at 03:07 AM.

  17. #9837
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Germany

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Is this AGOG?

    BTW
    Sulong Carrot > Yamato design wise

    Yamato still is a lock join and Carrot won't join.

    Both are boring

  18. #9838
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Yggdrasil

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I just feel like Carrot has a lot more potential for interesting arcs than Yamato, who feels confined to a certain role and interaction. I agree that both need to be flashed out more, but I have tons of trouble seeing a world where Yamato feels like a natural addition to the crew...
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  19. #9839

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    Is this AGOG?

    BTW
    Sulong Carrot > Yamato design wise

    Yamato still is a lock join and Carrot won't join.

    Both are boring
    Carrot is far from boring in term of design, you wouldn't have all those fanart if that was the case.

    What is Agog ?

  20. #9840
    Warrior of Science Kaptayn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    France

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    Is this AGOG?


    Both are boring
    I agree. #JinbeiIsTheLastOne

    @CarrotForNakama, clear something up for me. You argue that Yamato was set up late. Yet you say that Carrot wasn't because... Oda drew rabbits before?


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