View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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  • Yamato

    135 46.88%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.35%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc.)

    1 0.35%
  • Momo

    8 2.78%
  • Tama

    7 2.43%
  • Carrot

    60 20.83%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 2.43%
  • Caribou

    4 1.39%
  • Other

    23 7.99%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    42 14.58%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #3741

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Lol. People really get salty talking about pedro especially carrot fan I assume. Pedro being alive is a good thing though. That would even make carrot happy.

    Pedro does not need tobe dead for carrot joining. We see that zeff who is sanji mentor is alive but sanji keep joining luffy. That's because he really understand his dream and really mean it.

    Pedro already said his "last word" to carrot (like y'all carrot fan arguing, right?). If pedro turn out to be alive in the future, so be it. If carrot does not understand his "last word" or the dawn or she does not mean the dawn is really her dream, it's her fault not pedro fault being still alive

  2. #3742

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Pedro being alive is not a good thing, and that's not because of Carrot. You'll see lots of people who dislike Carrot saying the same. And while fake deaths are not news in One Piece, his death has been so emphasized at this point, repeatedly remembered by characters in the story, that it would be a new low.

    Most people who argue Pedro could still be alive is only because of skeptcism based Oda's bad habits, not because it's a good thing.

  3. #3743

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Pedro being alive is not a good thing, and that's not because of Carrot. You'll see lots of people who dislike Carrot saying the same. And while fake deaths are not news in One Piece, his death has been so emphasized at this point, repeatedly remembered by characters in the story, that it would be a new low.

    Most people who argue Pedro could still be alive is only because of skeptcism based Oda's bad habits, not because it's a good thing.
    Indeed. But I beg to differ. I dont think oda does give pedro the fake death. I believe he is dead. But I also believe he is still alive at the same time

  4. #3744

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I see no causation in your point that Carrot gained more prominence <u>as a result</u> of WCI being an irregularly structured arc. Oda can write a irregularly structured arc and have Carrot do nothing or have her be portrayed in the same way as it's happening in Wano. Instead, Oda chose to make Carrot stand out a lot more, which has a little to do with WCI's structure. Why it happened though? It could be a just a random enthusiasm by Oda to draw Carrot despite no ulterior purpose... or maybe because there are more consequential reasons behind her character that we have yet to see. We'll only know for when she leaves the story.
    But WCI was an irregular arc, and Carrot did benefit from that. In a conventional arc, the Straw Hats sail to an island, anchor their ship, disembark, make some friends, fight some enemies, make everything better and then get back on their ship and leave the island. WCI by comparison is a chain of islands that the Straw Hats have to sail between, thus it has an exceptional amount of focus and time spent on the Sunny compared to most other arcs. It also featured large naval battles, which is surprisingly rare for series about pirates. This meant that Carrot was able to do a lot more on the sunny than any other temporary ally had the chance to. Also most Allies are recruited on the island where the arc takes place. Carrot, Pedro, and Pekoms were recruited on the previous arc's island, meaning Carrot got to be present during arc transitions.

    Furthermore the arc had a surprisingly small cast initially. As a courtesy to the Curly Hat pirates for kicking them out of Dressrosa, Oda kicked not only Robin, Franky, Brook and Zoro out of WCI but also all of Luffy's tagalongs like Law, Kinemon, Kanjuro, and Momo. Adding only Pedro, Carrot and Pekoms to make up the difference meant that Luffy headed into the arc with only 7 people. This lack of protagonists plus the fact that Oda didn't have the team split up nearly as much as a cluster arc like Dressrosa meant that early WCI was a very focused arc plotwise, with limited division. Even when the arc introduced more allies later on they got little focus compared to the WCI Infiltration team. Being in hostile territory meant with the exception of Luffy running off to fight Katakuri and Sanji running to bake the cake the team could not afford to break up for fights or whatever, thus whenever Oda had to focus on the strawhats, they were all there, all getting attention. Compare that to a more traditional long arc with fights where everyone goes all over the place and a character only gets screen time if Oda wants to specifically focus on them. This facet of the arc means that Carrot gets constant screen time by being present even in scenes that are not focused on her. She also picked an insane amount of chapter appearances by combining that more focused narrative with the immense length and the smaller cast of WCI.

    Let's do some math. In terms of panel time anyone present in WCI Benefitted immensely. Carrot in particular got 475 panels in WCI, that is more panel time than Jinbei, Chopper and Brook and it is the majority of her screen time in the entirety of One Piece so far. The only 5 people who topped her were in order Katakuri, Big Mom, Nami, Sanji and Luffy. Sanji in particular got over 1000 panels which are numbers that only Luffy can manage usually. It allowed him to briefly overtake Zoro until Wano. Luffy himself picked up over 1400 panels which is the most panel time any character has ever received in any arc ever. Any character on the crew benefitted immensely from that arc and Carrot did especially. Now you stick her in a more traditional cluster arc like Wano and she gets lost in the mass of plotlines and characters, failing to even break the top 40 and losing out to characters who were introduced after she re-entered the story in 975.

    Does this mean much for Carrot joining the crew? Not necessarily. She could get some amazing moments that fix all my problems with her and propel her to crew mate position. I just don't consider WCI enough to throw my weight behind her when I compare WCI and Wano critically. If Oda truly connects to me with how he decides to write Carrot in the future then I may change my opinion on her, but I don't like assume she's going to e that important because of what Oda could do with her. I care about what Oda's doing with her in Wano which is not much this late into the arc. I just don't think he's shown interest in building her up over the course of Wano and I see that as indicative of how he feels about her as a character. Was Carrot just a tag along for WCI meant for a role as an ally to the crew, or was she a more important character. I don't think either of us can answer that for sure, but just as you choose to believe Carrot is important based on WCI. I choose to believe based on the Wano that he's setting her up for a lesser role as a ally. I feel it would a perfectly satisfying conclusion to her character even if you might feel differently.

  5. #3745

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirogami View Post
    Indeed. But I beg to differ. I dont think oda does give pedro the fake death. I believe he is dead. But I also believe he is still alive at the same time
    Well, I guess he is a cat after all.

  6. #3746

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I was bored, so I decided to look through some old chapters for panels of Carrot interacting with the crew since people feel she's essentially a ghost. This isn't a definitive list, but it's enough to show that she wasn't just standing in the background.

    Carrot with the crew

    Spoiler:







    Carrot with Luffy specifically.

    Spoiler:














  7. #3747

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by PKRolling456 View Post
    But WCI was an irregular arc, and Carrot did benefit from that. In a conventional arc, the Straw Hats sail to an island, anchor their ship, disembark, make some friends, fight some enemies, make everything better and then get back on their ship and leave the island. WCI by comparison is a chain of islands that the Straw Hats have to sail between, thus it has an exceptional amount of focus and time spent on the Sunny compared to most other arcs. It also featured large naval battles, which is surprisingly rare for series about pirates. This meant that Carrot was able to do a lot more on the sunny than any other temporary ally had the chance to. Also most Allies are recruited on the island where the arc takes place. Carrot, Pedro, and Pekoms were recruited on the previous arc's island, meaning Carrot got to be present during arc transitions.

    Furthermore the arc had a surprisingly small cast initially. As a courtesy to the Curly Hat pirates for kicking them out of Dressrosa, Oda kicked not only Robin, Franky, Brook and Zoro out of WCI but also all of Luffy's tagalongs like Law, Kinemon, Kanjuro, and Momo. Adding only Pedro, Carrot and Pekoms to make up the difference meant that Luffy headed into the arc with only 7 people. This lack of protagonists plus the fact that Oda didn't have the team split up nearly as much as a cluster arc like Dressrosa meant that early WCI was a very focused arc plotwise, with limited division. Even when the arc introduced more allies later on they got little focus compared to the WCI Infiltration team. Being in hostile territory meant with the exception of Luffy running off to fight Katakuri and Sanji running to bake the cake the team could not afford to break up for fights or whatever, thus whenever Oda had to focus on the strawhats, they were all there, all getting attention. Compare that to a more traditional long arc with fights where everyone goes all over the place and a character only gets screen time if Oda wants to specifically focus on them. This facet of the arc means that Carrot gets constant screen time by being present even in scenes that are not focused on her. She also picked an insane amount of chapter appearances by combining that more focused narrative with the immense length and the smaller cast of WCI.

    Let's do some math. In terms of panel time anyone present in WCI Benefitted immensely. Carrot in particular got 475 panels in WCI, that is more panel time than Jinbei, Chopper and Brook and it is the majority of her screen time in the entirety of One Piece so far. The only 5 people who topped her were in order Katakuri, Big Mom, Nami, Sanji and Luffy. Sanji in particular got over 1000 panels which are numbers that only Luffy can manage usually. It allowed him to briefly overtake Zoro until Wano. Luffy himself picked up over 1400 panels which is the most panel time any character has ever received in any arc ever. Any character on the crew benefitted immensely from that arc and Carrot did especially. Now you stick her in a more traditional cluster arc like Wano and she gets lost in the mass of plotlines and characters, failing to even break the top 40 and losing out to characters who were introduced after she re-entered the story in 975.

    Does this mean much for Carrot joining the crew? Not necessarily. She could get some amazing moments that fix all my problems with her and propel her to crew mate position. I just don't consider WCI enough to throw my weight behind her when I compare WCI and Wano critically. If Oda truly connects to me with how he decides to write Carrot in the future then I may change my opinion on her, but I don't like assume she's going to e that important because of what Oda could do with her. I care about what Oda's doing with her in Wano which is not much this late into the arc. I just don't think he's shown interest in building her up over the course of Wano and I see that as indicative of how he feels about her as a character. Was Carrot just a tag along for WCI meant for a role as an ally to the crew, or was she a more important character. I don't think either of us can answer that for sure, but just as you choose to believe Carrot is important based on WCI. I choose to believe based on the Wano that he's setting her up for a lesser role as a ally. I feel it would a perfectly satisfying conclusion to her character even if you might feel differently.
    All good points. It's true that there is correlation, maybe even causation, between the smaller cast and Carrot's bigger presence, although that's not the complete picture and it doesn't answer all the questions.

    Obviously, as long as she's around with a reduced cast, she's bound to get screentime, and that's why her presence was not SCREAMING new nakama. However, this advantageous circunstance doesn't explain why she got so much exposure to the point of being above other SHs in terms of panel time. She could have been treated like Pekoms or Caesar, right? In my opinion, things got out of proportion and that's why I avoid fully accepting this argument of "causation". One could say that Carrot should have gotten even more panel time if she was supposed to join the crew. However, the other side of the coin is questioning why a side character who won't join the crew was getting more attention than a proper SH - as you mentioned, she was above Jimbe, Brook and Chopper, even though we can discuss the relevancy of their highlights. It's hard to measure both sides of the coin against each other.

    Besides that, your reasoning mostly explains why she got so much panel time, but not why she was portrayed so actively, so equal to the crew, sometimes even shining brighter. You see, one thing that I always appreciated about Carrot is that she was not there to make exposition, or to play a very specific role, or to cut corners in the plot, or to simply be a spectator. Instead, she would fight and adventure and contribute as much as the other SHs who were with her. This is special.

    Most of guests and allies of SHs don't reach the same status, and it doesn't matter the size of the crew because this comes back to even the first few years of the series. Like, we don't have Johnny and Yosaku defeating some weaker fishmen onscreen in Arlong Park. They just watch and react, or lose a fight offscreen, or they explain things when things need explaining. Other allies do minor stuff and become plot devices even when they're cool charismatic guys and girls. The exceptions are a very elite class of characters like Vivi, Law and Kinnemon, although each one of them have different circunstances for their participation, and it's impossible to make a perfect comparison. Maybe we could include the Grand Fleet captains in this list too, although a little different, but at the end of the day we learned that there was an ulterior motive behind their screentime.

    Most importantly, why is Carrot even in WCI in the first place? Once she was there, your reasoning shows how she had the opportunity for so much panel time, but why was she there? It doesn't fulfill a clear function other than building up her own character. Some people see that as a bad sign for Carrot, because it means she was not central to the story like main characters usually are, but it's the most intriguing thing that Oda included a side character who had no business being there, and then gave her such a prominent participation.

    For instance, when Kinnemon and Momonosuke become allies in Punk Hazard, the audience is already aware that they're not there randomly. They're vessels of the story to play a role in a future arc completely linked to its plot. The same is true for Vivi or lesser characters like Camie because that's how a story is written - characters are there for a reason and their screentime tend to be equivalent to the weight of their role. Now what's the deal with Carrot? We may find an answer when Wano ends, and it's possible that her prominence is not because she'll join the crew, of course, but I hope the answer is proportional to the time invested on her. You said she could be just a lesser ally, and that's certainly possible, but it's funny that it's difficult to figure out in which condition she'll be a future ally and if there's a role that matches such an extensive build up.

    We all have our bias here, of course, but I'd like to repeat something I said in this thread that Carrot feels like a nakama because of the portrayal of her friendship, even if she doesn't join at the end. Like, I see this character without a clear role in the story, but who was so prominent despite that, and then I see how intimately she's been portrayed with the crew even to this day, and it smells like a future SH to me, lol. Well, Carrot has lost her momentum now, so the scent is a lot weaker, maybe even vanishing, but it just made sense and still does. She looks like an outcast among the minks, wearing a different costume, wanting to leave to have adventures at sea, stowing away on a ship, being shown to be more excited with the SHs than with her tribe. Purely from a character perspective, it's hard to believe that Carrot would not want to ask to join the crew.

    Finally, just one last thing. You said something interesting that Carrot doesn't have solo moments, like being completely alone and the narrative still following her. Good point. That said... isn't this what's happening right now with Perospero? I mean, Wanda is with her, but in this case Wanda is the secondary character, not Carrot. Does it refute your argument? You see, even if Wano has been sidelining Carrot, which is bad for her prospects of joining the SHs, she's important enough to have this individual highlight. Anyway, let's not be hasty with our conclusions and wait to see what's in Oda's plans.
    Last edited by theackwardstation; January 9th, 2021 at 10:56 PM.

  8. #3748

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I was bored, so I decided to look through some old chapters for panels of Carrot interacting with the crew since people feel she's essentially a ghost. This isn't a definitive list, but it's enough to show that she wasn't just standing in the background.

    Carrot with the crew



    Carrot with Luffy specifically.

    I guess I'll also add to it.

    Carrot with the crew
    Spoiler:







    Oh, and most importantly...




    Carrot with Luffy specifically, I only have one to add. I think it really drives in how she already was asking orders from Luffy the moment the mission started.



    Once again, very odd to constantly include a "non-significant" character who had no strong narrative presence this prevalently with the crew and not with the Minks on-panel unless Oda wanted to do something with it.

  9. #3749

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    The thing I really like about the Franky situation is that it is a dream crashing up against the Straw Hats dream(s) and it's messy. I do get that Usopp was having issues, but I really think the impact is greater because it is Franky and his family beating him up. Better yet, I think the reveal of Franky's flashback and eventually what he purchased with the money make the entire situation into something greater than it was. Also, I'm not so sure it ever gets to the level of drama that it does if Usopp isn't put in that situation and I don't think it can be written the same way if anyone else beats up Franky. Everything about why he beat up Franky, why the money was stolen, and the existence of the Franky Family is an extension of the character Franky. They steal the money for the sake of Franky's dream. You're right that Usopp has to have that moment of truth, even if he's not beaten up, but his relationship with Merry is because of his feelings of inadequacy. Merry is also inadequate for the long journey they're headed toward and Usopp finds a role fixing her, but is also not sufficient to do that. This is the story coalescing into something real and the Shipwright Franky is the most appropriate person to cause it and then fix it.

    Does Usopp get to the point of challenging Luffy to a duel if that money isn't stolen (for the sake of Franky's dream) and he isn't beat up? I don't think Usopp's feelings of inadequacy would be so strong if he didn't feel so useless. I certainly don't think he challenges Luffy to a duel, and I don't think the argument escalates to Luffy giving Usopp that ultimatum.

    Does Luffy make the decision to get a new ship without that encounter with Franky and co?:

    Do we get this moment with Zoro demanding respect if Franky's dream isn't so strong it butts up against everyone else's?:

    I really enjoy this stuff, and your mileage may vary, but why I think it wins out in impact even versus a major death is because Oda was able to so beautifully bring it together and make everything connect in the end. As of yet, for me at least, the Pedro sacrifice is like a really good condiment. It added some motivation, but didn't outright change the dynamic of the crew or lead to lasting changes. Pedro seems necessary for getting away from Perospero, but if Perospero isn't there, does anything change? If Pedro is still with them, does anything really change? I don't see it, but I can't imagine Water 7/Enies Lobby and the growth the characters achieved happening without the Franky Family clash with the Straw Hats.
    Yeah, it's great storytelling. It's also due to great setup. Which is why I see all of it as something that was already in motion/bound to happen and Franky's whole package being undeniably complementary, but in essence still a tool in the same way as Pedro was to showcase the crew's growth. Oda packaged a wakeup call with the shipwright and that was cool.

    It's mostly the same equation with 2 key differences. The 1st difference would be about who is newly starting another chapter with the impact. That would be Franky, but for Pedro, it is Carrot and 1 of the X factors of the arc in Pekoms (painfully understated as someone affected by Pedro's sacrifice). Neither (Franky and Pedro) were known parts of the equation for the crew's narrative of growth or lack thereof being addressed, coming into those arcs. You know they need to fix the ship, address lingering issues in W7 or show growth during urgent matters in WCI arc, but who will be the impetus for this?

    Carrot doesn't get to be the catalyst that Franky is because she, like the crew, are the ones being affected, while Pedro is in that role. Pekoms goes from trying to play the middle to fully betraying his crew after learning of Pedro's death. As you asked if things would be the same without Franky, I ask the same about Pedro's decisions.

    Carrot's narrative is currently running along with the immediate story and not only is it selfish of her to go on her revenge tour away from helping the crew and Scabbards, it is bold as a writer to make this part of the agenda with the other more important narratives. Oda could've easily have Perospero stay at the bottom with his siblings and put Carrot on the obvious Momo protection squad. Instead she has her own vendetta that is still ongoing thanks to Pedro. The audacity for Oda to even care about this tag along that much while Yonko are being fought, Wano needs saving and Oden's will is on display. It doesn't add up. Why can't an actual Straw Hat get vengeance instead? Or is it because she might be a... nvm.

    Luffy could still move, but there was no way for him to get Brulee unless Pekoms was goaded into action thanks to Pedro's sacrifice. We all saw the ridiculous circumstance surrounding his escape. Sanji can only do so much with Oven and that army right there. Even with the crew being the saviors of Zou, Pekoms hands were tied. They needed someone in BM's crew to create a miracle.

    So while Franky affected the crew and started anew for himself as someone who wasn't part of the equation before, Pedro gave up his future and went into his Night before Dawn. To not only affect the crew, but inspire two others that can carry on his will in Pekoms and Carrot. What happens from here, I don't know, but passing on your will for these newer characters have more of a punch than just yourself.

    The second difference being how the crew handled it. That part is what I see you pointing out as why the impact was greater here. While we do get so many unforgettable moments where the crew address a lot of gnawing issues, they were all part of the equation to begin with. Whether it's Zoro as the backbone, Usopp's doubt of his own strength or Luffy being too easy going as a captain, it was there before Franky can do anything. While Pekoms and Carrot bring an extra unpredictability that just the crew being affected in W7/EL didn't. It's one thing if it's just the crew, but adding others that drive the plot just as much as the protagonist is where I would give the edge.

  10. #3750

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Carrot's narrative is currently running along with the immediate story and not only is it selfish of her to go on her revenge tour away from helping the crew and Scabbards, it is bold as a writer to make this part of the agenda with the other more important narratives. Oda could've easily have Perospero stay at the bottom with his siblings and put Carrot on the obvious Momo protection squad. Instead she has her own vendetta that is still ongoing thanks to Pedro. The audacity for Oda to even care about this tag along that much while Yonko are being fought, Wano needs saving and Oden's will is on display. It doesn't add up. Why can't an actual Straw Hat get vengeance instead? Or is it because she might be a... nvm.
    To be fair, Oda already set the wheels in motion, so she was bound to confront Perospero eventually. You're right, though. It's no coincidence that of all of Big Mom's children to make it to Onigashima, the one that was responsible for Pedro's death was the one. This is the first step in her own conflict resolution, but we also know that she has another. Witnessing the Straw Hats bring about the new dawn. Defeating Perospero won't accomplish that, so after her conflict with Perospero is over, she'll still have at least one more. I find it hard to believe that Carrot would realize what Pedro meant if she wasn't with the crew when she did.

  11. #3751

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaOfHope View Post

    Carrot with Luffy specifically, I only have one to add. I think it really drives in how she already was asking orders from Luffy the moment the mission started.

    https://i.imgur.com/cAxfDXl.png

    Once again, very odd to constantly include a "non-significant" character who had no strong narrative presence this prevalently with the crew and not with the Minks on-panel unless Oda wanted to do something with it.
    Yeah, seems about right.
    Those are very basic interactions, especially for someone who has been around for 200 chapters.
    Luffy being mostly annoyed by her biting, mostly replying to her and talking the bare minimum.
    Luffy had more and better interactions with other side characters, within a shorter number of chapters.

    "There will be an answer, let it be."

  12. #3752

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhenja View Post
    Yeah, seems about right.
    Those are very basic interactions, especially for someone who has been around for 200 chapters.
    Luffy being mostly annoyed by her biting, mostly replying to her and talking the bare minimum.
    Luffy had more and better interactions with other side characters, within a shorter number of chapters.
    Considering the fact that the two biggest candidates right now are Carrot and Yamato, those are the two characters worth comparing (sorry Solid). "Other side characters" could be literally dozens of characters (or Tama) who aren't even remotely considered to be one of the top two candidates. With that being said, you're free to compare Carrot's 200 chapters with the crew to Yamato's 19 along with some examples. I'd love to see it.

  13. #3753

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    "Other side characters" could be literally dozens of characters (or Tama) who aren't even remotely considered to be one of the top two candidates.
    Carrot should be among them... but for some reason some people can't acknowledge it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    With that being said, you're free to compare Carrot's 200 chapters with the crew to Yamato's 19 along with some examples. I'd love to see it.
    Why? It doesn't make any sense.
    1. Carrot has the chapter advantage.
    2. I never said she didn't have any substantial interaction with the crew, just her trying to comfort Sanji after Pedro's death is enough.
    3. I don't have the time to waste it on such nonsense.

    "There will be an answer, let it be."

  14. #3754
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Sunday's the last day if anyone else wants to get in on my wager: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t...82#post4101482



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  15. #3755
    Discovered Stowaway Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    It should be noted that all of the 173* panels Yamato featured/had dialogue in had them as part of the central focus/purpose.

    Oda has illustrated zero panels with Yamato as part of the background focus.

    You could argue a panel or two when Luffy stated to Big Mom what his intention was but in my view all the panels on that page were important to Yamato - Yamato finding out that Luffy wasn't there on Onigashima just to beat Kaido, questioning Luffy about his statement, and Luffy in turn responding with his declaration to crush Kaido, Big Mom, their officers, Orochi and his followers. The main purpose of that page was for Big Mom, Yamato, Hyogoro and others to hear Luffy's declaration.

    Oda has been very attentive in how he is handling Yamato's presence, role and focus since their appearance.

    *Panel count updated from 172 I stated before - did not include the panel that had Yamato and Luffy fall from the ceiling before.
    Last edited by Syphin; January 10th, 2021 at 04:51 AM.

  16. #3756
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    If this is a serious question, then it's because I'm not going to jump on the Yamato bandwagon as many others appear to have done after like 19 chapters. It's too soon imo and nothing about him remotely overshadows Carrot to me at this point. He knew Ace. So did Jinbe. He wants to go to sea. So did Carrot.
    I'm not going to rehash every single argument for Yamato or against Carrot because if they haven't made you change your mind until now, then I won't be able to either. Just keep in mind that there might be a reason why the Yamato bandwagon has been going strong and, in your own words, why many people think Yamato is a done deal. It hasn't gotten this far in a long time, not for Rebecca, not for Monet, not for Shirahoshi, not for Hancock, not for Perona.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Your post history seems to be far kinder to him than it has been to Carrot. You've defended his design and criticized Carrot's.
    And I stand by that. Oda was able to give Chopper details that went beyond him being a reindeer. He didn't for Carrot. We've seen many people with horns now. I believe none of them are red except Yamato's. No one we know has hair that changes into an entirely different color midway through. And I attribute the debatable Nami face to how Oda wants to draw beautiful women since his target audience is still teenager boys.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    You think he should be able to make poneglyghs for some reason, should meet Ivankov for gender reassignment, and so on and so forth. Basically, you seem more accepting of things that would expand upon his character than you are with Carrot.
    You're twisting my words there. I didn't say that Yamato should be able to make poneglyphs. I said that it would be a neat tie if Yamato as a Wanoese citizen with intimate knowledge about the last person of the stonemason clan and possibly one of the people who will reveal the contents of the Void Century to the world contributes to making sure no one will ever try to bury that history again. There is a difference between saying that a possible outcome would tie a subplot together nicely and saying that character definitely has the skills to do so. We don't even know if the stonemason knowledge is in Oden's journal.
    Regarding Ivankov, you're again twisting my words. I said
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    If Yamato's "I'm literally Oden!" quirk is in for the long run I want to see him meet Ivankov and their hormone therapy
    Are you telling me that it wouldn't be interesting to see if Yamato would actually go through with hormone therapy if he keeps up his "I'm Oden" shtick? I think it would be interesting to see Yamato's dedication to that quirk being questioned.
    And yes, I am more accepting of expanding Yamato's character because he was only recently introduced and already had a lot of focus while still having a lot to explore about him. Carrot had her focus on WCI, arguably less so than Yamato did so far. Then she was completely irrelevant for what, 90 chapters? There was ample time to expand on her character. We could have seen her sharing the news about Pedro's demise to the other Minks. How she deals with it, can she keep a brave face? Will she bawl her eyes out? Instead, everything about her reconnecting with her people was off-screened. What is there left to know about Carrot except for what conclusion she will reach regarding Pedro's last words?



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Like I've said, there's not much unique about him yet. He looks like Nami, Oden, and Kaido, knew Ace (like Jinbe), and wants to go to sea (like Carrot and her adventures). He even identifies as another character not to mention uses the same weapon as his father. There are far more unique qualities with Carrot at this point. If he develops some quirks, has nice interactions with the crew, drops the Oden thing and embraces his own wants, or things like that, then sure. I'll reassess.
    It's ironic how you list a quirk of his and at the same time want him to drop it.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Because the plot didn't require it. The same as it was where Jinbe finally showed off his helmsman abilities hundreds of chapters after the story began. People around here constantly said the SHs didn't need one when I and a few others said that would be Jinbe's role. As for Carrot, what I find interesting is that one of the first things that she did on Zou was jump in the air and look a great distance away. Once Carrot took over the duty from Pedro she was seen in that position several times. No guest on the Sunny or Merry has ever taken on a role on the ship and I think that could be significant. Oda intentionally drew her several times in a position that the SHs officially lacked. That role (just like a helsman) is plot specific. She would only see what Oda wanted her to. And to be clear, Usopp is a sniper. Remember how Violet gave him directions? That's what Carrot could technically do if Oda wanted. People saying Usopp can be lookout were the same people saying Franky could be the helmsman.
    How many times did another Straw Hat fulfill a role by their own when the person who usually does that role is around? Every single time Carrot was the lookout lost their relevance once Usopp did her supposed role for her right next to her. It would be ridiculous if Sanji started navigating while Nami is around. Brook is not going to cook, Sanji would kick him off the ship if he tries to mess with Sanji's tools. If Franky started to play the guitar Brook would definitely join in. If Usopp tried to fix the Sunny by himself Franky would freak out. And so on



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    With Yamato, I've seen debates about his potential role and this again makes me skeptical of his possibility as a SH. There's nothing shown so far that indicates what his role would be. At least with Carrot, we saw it in like her first 3 panels.
    You just said yourself that the eventual role isn't immediately apparent. I don't understand why you list that as an argument against Yamato while at the same time as an argument for Carrot.


    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    That's fair, but let's not pretend that she's some stranger. She risked her life and helped take on an emperor while losing her friend and mentor in the process. How often do you see Luffy interacting with Robin or Franky interacting with Nami? There's nothing wrong with characters not interacting that often. Carrot was around Luffy, so I think that carries more weight than her not being around the Dressrosa crew.
    I'm not. I think Carrot is a side character to round out an arc specific cast. And yes, it's fine if characters don't interact that often. What I find ridiculous however is listing a panel where Carrot is a barely discernible blob in the background as interaction with the crew because she cheered at the same time.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Wait. Is that what you were referencing when you were talking about confirmation bias? That was sarcasm. You didn't see the smiley face?
    To be honest, I don't think it was clear that it was sarcasm because it fits with the way you've been arguing, and I also don't believe you meant that sarcastically.

  17. #3757

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    About Yamato's color scheme, it's probably a nod to blue pheasant, one of Japan's national symbol, along with... koi.

    htlp://i.imgur.com/ds1UtoX.png

  18. #3758

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Finally, just one last thing. You said something interesting that Carrot doesn't have solo moments, like being completely alone and the narrative still following her. Good point. That said... isn't this what's happening right now with Perospero? I mean, Wanda is with her, but in this case Wanda is the secondary character, not Carrot. Does it refute your argument? You see, even if Wano has been sidelining Carrot, which is bad for her prospects of joining the SHs, she's important enough to have this individual highlight. Anyway, let's not be hasty with our conclusions and wait to see what's in Oda's plans.
    I'm not denying that Carrot doesn't get moments focused on her. My point was that she got an exceptional amount of screen time by merely being present in scenes that were not focused on her. The Perospero fight is her first real moment of focus in all of Wano. For most of her scenes in Wano she was entirely incidental and could have been removed without changing anything. Oda had plenty of opportunity to begin developing the dawn plotline Carrot supporters are so fervent about or building more of a relationship with the crew, something comparable to what Jinbei got in Fishman Island. Instead he chose to toss Carrot out of the crew and throw her back with the minks. This is in spite of the fact that he made an effort to give every member of the crew something to do even if it was incredibly minor. I just don't feel this how he would treat a character he was building into a crewmate. He also did nothing to develop Carrot as a character which has been my biggest issue with her. I feel like the Perospero fight is pretty much her last chance to really impress me. Whatever happens at the end of that fight will probably give us the strongest indication of where Oda intends to go wit her character.

  19. #3759

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    What is with Masked Deuce? He was the first Member of Aces Spade Pirate crew. We heard from him only story's in the novel. He didn't want to say his real name and he wore a mask.
    He only wanted to write stories about his journey l. Maybe the first member of Ace could be the last member of the straw hats. And they have a man to write a book about the journal of the future pirate King and his crew.
    Last edited by Jeff Nero Hardy; January 10th, 2021 at 11:49 AM.

  20. #3760

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    Sunday's the last day if anyone else wants to get in on my wager: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t...82#post4101482
    I'll take that bet, just for the fun of it. And I'm on the Yamato camp, we gotta fight a little, right?

    But to make it fair, I guess that if you win I'll finally get an avatar, or sig, with Carrot on it. Will ask for your assistance and recomendations should that be the case.

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