View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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  • Yamato

    137 47.24%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.34%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc.)

    1 0.34%
  • Momo

    8 2.76%
  • Tama

    7 2.41%
  • Carrot

    60 20.69%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 2.41%
  • Caribou

    4 1.38%
  • Other

    23 7.93%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    42 14.48%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #3721
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    snip
    The thing I really like about the Franky situation is that it is a dream crashing up against the Straw Hats dream(s) and it's messy. I do get that Usopp was having issues, but I really think the impact is greater because it is Franky and his family beating him up. Better yet, I think the reveal of Franky's flashback and eventually what he purchased with the money make the entire situation into something greater than it was. Also, I'm not so sure it ever gets to the level of drama that it does if Usopp isn't put in that situation and I don't think it can be written the same way if anyone else beats up Franky. Everything about why he beat up Franky, why the money was stolen, and the existence of the Franky Family is an extension of the character Franky. They steal the money for the sake of Franky's dream. You're right that Usopp has to have that moment of truth, even if he's not beaten up, but his relationship with Merry is because of his feelings of inadequacy. Merry is also inadequate for the long journey they're headed toward and Usopp finds a role fixing her, but is also not sufficient to do that. This is the story coalescing into something real and the Shipwright Franky is the most appropriate person to cause it and then fix it.

    Does Usopp get to the point of challenging Luffy to a duel if that money isn't stolen (for the sake of Franky's dream) and he isn't beat up? I don't think Usopp's feelings of inadequacy would be so strong if he didn't feel so useless. I certainly don't think he challenges Luffy to a duel, and I don't think the argument escalates to Luffy giving Usopp that ultimatum.


    Does Luffy make the decision to get a new ship without that encounter with Franky and co?:
    https://youtu.be/pTTFci_e4Ko?t=101

    Do we get this moment with Zoro demanding respect if Franky's dream isn't so strong it butts up against everyone else's?:


    I really enjoy this stuff, and your mileage may vary, but why I think it wins out in impact even versus a major death is because Oda was able to so beautifully bring it together and make everything connect in the end. As of yet, for me at least, the Pedro sacrifice is like a really good condiment. It added some motivation, but didn't outright change the dynamic of the crew or lead to lasting changes. Pedro seems necessary for getting away from Perospero, but if Perospero isn't there, does anything change? If Pedro is still with them, does anything really change? I don't see it, but I can't imagine Water 7/Enies Lobby and the growth the characters achieved happening without the Franky Family clash with the Straw Hats.
    Last edited by andre; January 9th, 2021 at 02:27 PM.
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  2. #3722

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    You guys are having your nice chat there, but I missed the point why this comparison is being made, and I feel guilty since I was the one who mentioned Franky in the first place.

    Franky was very impactful in Water 7, a character totally central to the plot, so yes, his actions were consequential to let important things happen, although some of those were not his intentions and didn't happen with his presence around, but only collateral effects triggered by him stealing the crew's money.

    However, I think the conversation was about impactful interactions with Luffy, like having a nice and memorable conversation or an inspirational moment or a beautiful blood transfusion or any sort of extended scene to build up the bonding between Luffy and his future crewmate... because that's what people usually demand from Carrot beyond what she already got, most notably the crew's reaction to Pedro's sacrifice which was shared by Luffy. That's why I said Franky didn't have one of such iconic scenes until the moment he joined. But I never meant to say that Franky didn't have big moments in Water 7 or Enies Lobby. He obviously did.

  3. #3723

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    There is no point in having a proper discussion with someone who openly says that they deny anything that doesn't fit with their own theories. I'm just calling out your hypocrisy because someone should.
    I'm glad you're still open to the concept of Carrot potentially joining, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    In those panels Carrot is interacting with Nami and Jinbei, two members of the WCI squad. I see no interaction with the Dressrosa crew. The first one doesn't even have the latter in it
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    Not to mention that to half the crew Carrot barely stands out among the Minks. Carrot is nowhere near as close to Zoro, Usopp, Robin and Franky as Vivi was to all the Straw Hats more or less equally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    I don't even think that Carrot will become an honorary member after Wano, at least not on the same level as Vivi. To half the crew she is just another Mink. Zoro briefly attacked her, but have Usopp, Robin or Franky ever interacted with her in a way that stood out more than with other Minks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    You're confusing lazy with unique. Tell me about all the intricate details about Carrot that scream "Oda spent a lot of time designing this character". If you tell someone to draw a humanoid female rabbit with a bob hairstyle, short dress, cape and boots, they have all the info they need. Cause that's all Carrot is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    I'm absolutely baffled how one can call Yamato's design lazy while being a fervent Carrot supporter. She is a bunny with a cape. That's it. How biased can you be
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    I'd also argue that her problem is not a Chopper face but her being generally plain. She's an anthropomorphic rabbit with a bob cut, short dress, cape and boots. That's it. No intricate details to hint at her past, nothing that, to me, speaks "Oda spent a lot of time on her design". Her appearance is especially lackluster when compared to her immediate predecessors Franky, Brook and Jinbei. I really can't understand why people would say that she and Yamato have equally thoughtful designs.

  4. #3724

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    yeah, uuh.. you're pointing out Pedro's problem right there too.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Avenging Pedro outweights it, easily.

    Especially since Sanji doesn't really care for his Nazi family.
    1) No I don't think you get it. With Pedro we clearly see that the dynamite was strapped to him, he's at the epic center of the explosion. There's no way he wasn't hit by it. Where as with Igaram all we saw was his boat explode. We didn't see him explode. So there is room there to interpret how he may have survived but in Pedro's the only reasoning is that Oda is bad at killing people and therefore Pedro still could be alive, like with Pell. But I've shown that the way Oda presents both those situations is very different.

    2) Why would Sanji be the one to avenge Perospero and not Carrot? Sanji has options here. He could avenge Pedro sure, but he could also fight Queen because of the judge connection. Sanji doesn't have to care about Judge for that to happen, but it is a connection between the two characters and one that is Sanji's own. And Queen might want to fight Sanji because of that connection.

    For Carrot, avenging Pedro is all she cares about right now. Giving that to Sanji just sounds like a really poor suggestion from you to downplay Carrot's role in this story.

  5. #3725
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I'm glad you're still open to the concept of Carrot potentially joining, right?
    The key difference is, I don't blindly deny anything thrown at me. I look at the arguments and think if they make sense. If they don't I try to explain why I think that and maybe deliver counter arguments. As you have kindly proven for me. If others prove me wrong and can explain why I'm wrong, then I'm happy to concede that, as I've already done multiple times.
    Also, I'm not saying Carrot definitely won't join. I'm saying that the way I read the story I don't see any indication that Oda is setting her up for that.

  6. #3726

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    I mean, Pedro have been told by Roger himself that he would have his moment. I wouldn't call suicide as having a moment, much less in Japan where suicide is horryfingly high.
    Him coming to Whole Cake Island and helping the Straw Hats get the Road Poneglyph and escape Totland was "his moment" since the very moment he stepped into Big Mom's territory again he was forfeiting his life. His time to shine was laying the foundation that the Dawn would come through fruition. It's why he told Carrot she will one day understand, no point in saying so if he were going to come back and tell her.




    EDIT: He straight up says he never intended on returning alive.
    Spoiler:
    Last edited by SeaOfHope; January 9th, 2021 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #3727

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by black-leg jex View Post
    1) No I don't think you get it. With Pedro we clearly see that the dynamite was strapped to him, he's at the epic center of the explosion. There's no way he wasn't hit by it. Where as with Igaram all we saw was his boat explode. We didn't see him explode. So there is room there to interpret how he may have survived but in Pedro's the only reasoning is that Oda is bad at killing people and therefore Pedro still could be alive, like with Pell. But I've shown that the way Oda presents both those situations is very different.
    Is not only cause Oda has a track record of not killing them, is also because there's a blank space within the explotion.
    Pell survived a city sized bomb, I repeat a city sized explotion!!, Pedro's explotion wasn't even half of that.
    And then, there's those blank spaces in Pell's and Igaram's, which is also present in Pedro's, Perospero said he used a candy wall to protect himself, meaning, at some point he let go of Pedro then the Blank Space(where we DO NOT see Peros doing this) oucurred, and then we see the explotion.
    Pedro had been released by Peros, and he's always shown incredibly speed as the Jaguar he is, which in the OPverse guarantees survival.

    2) Why would Sanji be the one to avenge Perospero and not Carrot?
    Basically same reason 9 powerfull samurais couldn't defeat Kaido.

    Sanji has options here. He could avenge Pedro sure, but he could also fight Queen because of the judge connection. Sanji doesn't have to care about Judge for that to happen, but it is a connection between the two characters and one that is Sanji's own. And Queen might want to fight Sanji because of that connection
    That's just more of the Beast Pirates/World Govnt. Suspicious relationships, doesn't have to lead into a vs at all, and it doesn't override the actual drama and build up there is with Peros.

    For Carrot, avenging Pedro is all she cares about right now. Giving that to Sanji just sounds like a really poor suggestion from you to downplay Carrot's role in this story.
    It's been suggested by the manga itself, there would be no point in showing Sanji feeling responsible for Pedro, when he's well aware Pedro went there because of Sanji himself.
    It makes perfect sense actually.

  8. #3728

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    The key difference is, I don't blindly deny anything thrown at me. I look at the arguments and think if they make sense. If they don't I try to explain why I think that and maybe deliver counter arguments. As you have kindly proven for me. If others prove me wrong and can explain why I'm wrong, then I'm happy to concede that, as I've already done multiple times.
    Also, I'm not saying Carrot definitely won't join. I'm saying that the way I read the story I don't see any indication that Oda is setting her up for that.
    Neither have I. Carrot has been around for 5 years. Yamato a few months. I'm not going to simply overlook all of the smaller details that (to me) point to Carrot as being a potential SH compared to Yamato. Yamato has a long, long way to go. The consensus around here is that Yamato is a done deal, but I haven't see anything yet that points to it. Like I've stated, Yamato's design and lack of foreshadowing are big question marks for me. I can understand the same points against Carrot, but when you add in things like her being featured in the crow's nest a dozen times, her being surround by SHs since Zou, Pedro's sacrifice and it's impact on here, and more, Yamato simply doesn't have as much to compete against that. Wanting to leave Wano and knowing Ace (like Jinbe) don't compare to Carrot yet. If he crosses paths with more SHs or states that he wants to help Luffy achieve his dream, then obviously, those would be huge moments. For now, there's not been enough for me, but I'd freely admit if/when I'm wrong. I did it with Bartolomeo and I'd do it with Carrot.

  9. #3729
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    You guys are having your nice chat there, but I missed the point why this comparison is being made, and I feel guilty since I was the one who mentioned Franky in the first place.

    Franky was very impactful in Water 7, a character totally central to the plot, so yes, his actions were consequential to let important things happen, although some of those were not his intentions and didn't happen with his presence around, but only collateral effects triggered by him stealing the crew's money.

    However, I think the conversation was about impactful interactions with Luffy, like having a nice and memorable conversation or an inspirational moment or a beautiful blood transfusion or any sort of extended scene to build up the bonding between Luffy and his future crewmate... because that's what people usually demand from Carrot beyond what she already got, most notably the crew's reaction to Pedro's sacrifice which was shared by Luffy. That's why I said Franky didn't have one of such iconic scenes until the moment he joined. But I never meant to say that Franky didn't have big moments in Water 7 or Enies Lobby. He obviously did.
    I think Cockycent was commenting on how little people seem to think Pedro's death effected the rest of the crew, including Luffy. That seems to be a point that weighs in on the importance of Carrot as well, which is pretty relevant in this here thread. As for the seminal moment with Luffy, at the end of chapter 418, Luffy entrusts Franky with looking after Robin. It's not flashy or bombastic, but it's important. He's entrusting his crewmate Robin's life to Franky alone at that moment. Franky has more big moments with everyone else, but that was the only one for Luffy.
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  10. #3730

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    On the comparisons between Franky and Carrot, they can't be compared at all. Franky was a villain first. Luffy's first interaction with him was of anger, not awe. But then Franky had a lot of work to be done in order to feel worthy not only by Luffy, but the readers as well.

    Carrot never had such issues, so she should be compared to other characters with similar roles.

    I'll always remember the Paulie situation because I was rooting for him back then. He was introduced before Franky, he had an unique fighting style, he had a personal moment for Luffy to know him before Franky's true nature was revealed, he saved Luffy, Nami, Chopper and Zoro from the Aqua Laguna, he made a personal choice to go with the Straw Hats to Enies Lobby, there was that scene with Luffy, him and Zambai declaring themselves comrades. And then his role diminished and he turned out to just be a special case of secondary character.

    I see Carrot being another case of that, thought, sorry, I feel even Paulie had a more personal, meaningful moment with Luffy than Carrot did. I have no doubt Luffy sees Carrot as a great friend, but the narrative is always keeping her in the border of the crew.
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  11. #3731
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Neither have I. Carrot has been around for 5 years. Yamato a few months.
    How is that relevant?



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I'm not going to simply overlook all of the smaller details that (to me) point to Carrot as being a potential SH compared to Yamato. Yamato has a long, long way to go. The consensus around here is that Yamato is a done deal
    I don't think Yamato is a done deal. He has a strong foundation that can be built upon which is something that, if he does indeed join, we'll be able to say in hindsight "Yup, the signs were there all along".



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    but I haven't see anything yet that points to it.
    Could that possibly be because this is also you?
    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I'm going to continue looking at other external factors to justify my rational for him not to join the SHs. :)


    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Like I've stated, Yamato's design
    Again, Yamato's design bar his face is a lot more detailed than Carrots. The face also has more distinct features than Carrot's that don't stem from simply her being a rabbit. And the similarities to Nami also have gotten less with each chapter he appeared in since his introduction (which is almost every single one).



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    and lack of foreshadowing are big question marks for me.
    At last something we agree on. If Yamato is supposed to join then I don't understand the lack of foreshadowing as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I can understand the same points against Carrot, but when you add in things like her being featured in the crow's nest a dozen times
    We've been over Carrot's possible role as a lookout time and time again. All Straw Hats are standouts in their respective role, both within their crew and outside. The very first time the whole crew is back together and there's an opportunity for Carrot to be the lookout, Usopp is in the crow's nest first and does the job. That would've been the perfect opportunity for Oda to highlight her again, both to the readers once more and to the Dressrosa crew who have missed seeing her do the job. Yet Oda chose to use Usopp. Why is that?



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    her being surround by SHs since Zou
    I still don't think that standing next to someone constitutes as a significant interaction. You could argue that just like not communicating is a form of communication, not speaking or even acknowledging each other is a form of interaction, but that's not the kind of interaction I would see between crewmates.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Pedro's sacrifice and it's impact on here, and more, Yamato simply doesn't have as much to compete against that.
    We weren't shown yet if Yamato has something to compete with that. I think it's very likely that we'll get a Kaidou flashback and Yamato will probably be at the very least a part of that, if not get his own.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Wanting to leave Wano and knowing Ace (like Jinbe) don't compare to Carrot
    True. Yamato's wish to leave Wano has been reiterated multiple times, unlike Carrot. And he directly asked Luffy to let him on board, Carrot didn't. She just stowed away.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    If he crosses paths with more SHs or states that he wants to help Luffy achieve his dream, then obviously, those would be huge moments. For now, there's not been enough for me
    Again, that might be because of what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    I'm going to continue looking at other external factors to justify my rational for him not to join the SHs. :)

  12. #3732

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    On the comparisons between Franky and Carrot, they can't be compared at all. Franky was a villain first. Luffy's first interaction with him was of anger, not awe. But then Franky had a lot of work to be done in order to feel worthy not only by Luffy, but the readers as well.

    Carrot never had such issues, so she should be compared to other characters with similar roles.

    I'll always remember the Paulie situation because I was rooting for him back then. He was introduced before Franky, he had an unique fighting style, he had a personal moment for Luffy to know him before Franky's true nature was revealed, he saved Luffy, Nami, Chopper and Zoro from the Aqua Laguna, he made a personal choice to go with the Straw Hats to Enies Lobby, there was that scene with Luffy, him and Zambai declaring themselves comrades. And then his role diminished and he turned out to just be a special case of secondary character.

    I see Carrot being another case of that, thought, sorry, I feel even Paulie had a more personal, meaningful moment with Luffy than Carrot did. I have no doubt Luffy sees Carrot as a great friend, but the narrative is always keeping her in the border of the crew.
    Paulie, while being the dock worker who Luffy and the crew related to the most, was at the end of the day representing the Galley-La Company. And outside of the pinning down Oimo and Kashii at Enies Lobby, they were kind of at the backburner of that arc on fodder control. Paulie also told Zoro to relay to any of the former dock workers turned CP9 members if he were to come across them that they were "fired" since he couldn't deliver it himself.

    Carrot since the raid has been pretty separated from the Minks and has acted independently from the faction she represents. Plus, she gets to actually have her grudge match, though she shares it with another character, but there are still narrative strings to be pulled from her alone.

    While it can be contested if Carrot can even compare to building a case of being a potential nakama like the precedents set, comparing her to characters arbitrarily while lacking nuanced context doesn't make it right.

  13. #3733

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    On the comparisons between Franky and Carrot, they can't be compared at all. Franky was a villain first. Luffy's first interaction with him was of anger, not awe. But then Franky had a lot of work to be done in order to feel worthy not only by Luffy, but the readers as well.
    The difference you mentioned only maximizes my point, I think. Since Franky was introduces as an enemy, I supposed it should be expected more moments with Luffy before his joining in order to fix this hostility, but Oda used the rest of the crew (Usopp, Robin and Sanji) to fulfill this purpose instead. The fact that this process didn't happen between Franky and Luffy in particular tells a lot about the relative weight of this criteria to predict which characters can join the crew. Carrot easily passes the test, although it would be great to have see more moments between her and Luffy before her time of officially joining (in case it happens).

    I have no doubt Luffy sees Carrot as a great friend, but the narrative is always keeping her in the border of the crew.
    In Wano, yes. In WCI, I disagree.

  14. #3734

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    In Wano, yes. In WCI, I disagree.
    WCI was an irregularly structured arc that, as a result, gave Carrot far more prominence than she would have had in a more conventionally structured arc. She cannot carry herself solely based on WCI, and as we can agree, Wano has killed nearly all momentum for her character. Yes, there is always the chance for her to get a big moment in the future, but Oda's total disregard for her up until very recently is definitely a warning sign.

  15. #3735

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by PKRolling456 View Post
    WCI was an irregularly structured arc that, as a result, gave Carrot far more prominence than she would have had in a more conventionally structured arc. She cannot carry herself solely based on WCI, and as we can agree, Wano has killed nearly all momentum for her character. Yes, there is always the chance for her to get a big moment in the future, but Oda's total disregard for her up until very recently is definitely a warning sign.
    I see no causation in your point that Carrot gained more prominence as a result of WCI being an irregularly structured arc. Oda can write a irregularly structured arc and have Carrot do nothing or have her be portrayed in the same way as it's happening in Wano. Instead, Oda chose to make Carrot stand out a lot more, which has a little to do with WCI's structure. Why it happened though? It could be a just a random enthusiasm by Oda to draw Carrot despite no ulterior purpose... or maybe because there are more consequential reasons behind her character that we have yet to see. We'll only know for when she leaves the story.

    In regards to Wano, Carrot lost momentum, and I wouldn't have a reason to believe that Carrot would get better screentime in the future if not for the fact that I'm of the opinion that it's been foreshadowed that she'll have a particular development because of her desire to learn about the Dawn, which demands focus and spotlight. This event may be short or long, great or terrible, relevant or inconsequential... I don't have the answers... but I believe it'll happen in one way or another, so this is a reason to think that she'll pick up momentum. After that, maybe she'll join the crew, maybe not, it depends.

  16. #3736

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by PKRolling456 View Post
    WCI was an irregularly structured arc that, as a result, gave Carrot far more prominence than she would have had in a more conventionally structured arc.
    Indeed. The crew was downsized by half, they were not in the conventional island full of friendly faces to compete for attention. And I'd add that Pedro was the main mink until he dies.
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  17. #3737

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Indeed. The crew was downsized by half, they were not in the conventional island full of friendly faces to compete for attention. And I'd add that Pedro was the main mink until he dies.
    Oh boy, I disagree.

    I've seen arguments here that Pedro was being written with all the signs of a future SH, so when he died he passed this to Carrot... but I never saw it that way.

    While Pedro was certainly special too (and, for some readers, cooler than Carrot), Carrot was much more heavily featured in WCI even before Pedro's death. Like, it's not even close. More panel time, more action scenes, more quirks, more dialogue. Even how they were chosen to tag along was different, and a lot more spotlight was given to Carrot when she stowed away on the Sunny compared to Pedro asking Nekomamushi for permission. The only thing Pedro had that Carrot didn't was a previous history with the Big Mom Pirates.

  18. #3738

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Oh boy, I disagree.

    I've seen arguments here that Pedro was being written with all the signs of a future SH, so when he died he passed this to Carrot... but I never saw it that way.

    While Pedro was certainly special too (and, for some readers, cooler than Carrot), Carrot was much more heavily featured in WCI even before Pedro's death. Like, it's not even close. More panel time, more action scenes, more quirks, more dialogue. Even how they were chosen to tag along was different, and a lot more spotlight was given to Carrot when she stowed away on the Sunny compared to Pedro asking Nekomamushi for permission. The only thing Pedro had that Carrot didn't was a previous history with the Big Mom Pirates.
    I do agree Carrot had some great interactions when she appeared in the ship, but, IMO, Pedro in the first half of WCI was an active actor moving the story forward, while Carrot was mostly tagging along. Carrot had some minor fights against guys like rabbit homie and Diesel, but, just like Chopper, was mostly in the mirror world, while Nami, Luffy, Pedro and Brook were having most of the action.

    It's once Pedro's dead that Carrot assumes his places and becomes an active actor. Her Sulong chapters were really good, but then she fell unconscious and was out until the end of the arc.

    This is purely opinion, I never got the feeling that Carrot was ever being groomed into a protagonist. She's an great friend and was an important character that arc, sure, but I don't see her above many other important secondary characters before or since.

    Currently, I'm leaning towards the idea of Oda purposefully introducing several potential crewmates (Yamato, Carrot, maybe Tama) so they form their own crew. Of all of them, I'm seeing Yamato as the one with the most potential to join the SH crew, but mostly because the current arc focus on him more than the others.
    No, I'm not back. I never left. It's just that it has been a long time since I had something to say.

  19. #3739

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    I do agree Carrot had some great interactions when she appeared in the ship, but, IMO, Pedro in the first half of WCI was an active actor moving the story forward, while Carrot was mostly tagging along. Carrot had some minor fights against guys like rabbit homie and Diesel, but, just like Chopper, was mostly in the mirror world, while Nami, Luffy, Pedro and Brook were having most of the action.

    It's once Pedro's dead that Carrot assumes his places and becomes an active actor. Her Sulong chapters were really good, but then she fell unconscious and was out until the end of the arc.
    Part of this is subjective because of perception. That said, I think I have a better memory of these events before the Tea Party than you do.

    I'm not saying that Carrot had many chapters dedicated to her or holy shit moments, but her participation was much more steady and focused. While Pedro disappeared for 16~17 chapters after they arrived in WCI, Carrot was an active player in the seducing wood and the mirror world, either adventuring/interacting or helping with fights, since she was protecting Nami from Rudolph and Brulee, and then she did most of the job against Brulee's partners defeating almost all of them (including Brulee) while Chopper fought against the crocodile, lol. And Carrot and Chopper were essential to regroup the team, which helps the plot move forward since it's an essential part of an arc written as a sneaky hit-and-run.

    Pedro had a good moment when he became the bait for Brook to invade the Poneglyph room, and had a nice fight against Baron Tamago, but that was it. You can argue that this is a better highlight than Carrot's fights because of higher stakes, and I agree, but the framing was rather similar. Besides that, Carrot was also ahead in quantity. I also think she was portrayed more intimately with the crew, which may be because of her personality, but it's just impossible to ignore while you read some scenes.

    In comparison to the SHs, I wouldn't say that Nami did more than Carrot action-wise, since her most important role was offscreened - her colaboration in the fight against Cracker. That said, Nami was obviously more important because she was more involved in the drama with Sanji, being there to slap him the face and witness the enraged army. And Brook was obviously the MVP despite not a lot of screentime. When you face Big Mom and steal the poneglyphs, it doesn't matter if it was only for a few pages.

    This is purely opinion, I never got the feeling that Carrot was ever being groomed into a protagonist. She's an great friend and was an important character that arc, sure, but I don't see her above many other important secondary characters before or since.
    My feelings in this regard changed many times. She was getting my attention even before Pedro's sacrifice because of her portrayal in many scenes (and that fact that she stowed away on the Sunny), but her role as a side character instead of having a more in-your-face plot made me doubt her chances. It was really when Pedro died that it looked like a real thing and that she was being groomed as a protagonist.

    This feeling obviously changed in Wano, although I still believe she has chances.

  20. #3740

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    How is that relevant?
    If this is a serious question, then it's because I'm not going to jump on the Yamato bandwagon as many others appear to have done after like 19 chapters. It's too soon imo and nothing about him remotely overshadows Carrot to me at this point. He knew Ace. So did Jinbe. He wants to go to sea. So did Carrot.[/quote]

    I don't think Yamato is a done deal. He has a strong foundation that can be built upon which is something that, if he does indeed join, we'll be able to say in hindsight "Yup, the signs were there all along".
    Your post history seems to be far kinder to him than it has been to Carrot. You've defended his design and criticized Carrot's. You think he should be able to make poneglyghs for some reason, should meet Ivankov for gender reassignment, and so on and so forth. Basically, you seem more accepting of things that would expand upon his character than you are with Carrot.

    Could that possibly be because this is also you?
    Like I've said, there's not much unique about him yet. He looks like Nami, Oden, and Kaido, knew Ace (like Jinbe), and wants to go to sea (like Carrot and her adventures). He even identifies as another character not to mention uses the same weapon as his father. There are far more unique qualities with Carrot at this point. If he develops some quirks, has nice interactions with the crew, drops the Oden thing and embraces his own wants, or things like that, then sure. I'll reassess.

    Again, Yamato's design bar his face is a lot more detailed than Carrots. The face also has more distinct features than Carrot's that don't stem from simply her being a rabbit. And the similarities to Nami also have gotten less with each chapter he appeared in since his introduction (which is almost every single one).
    Let's be honest. You've seen how diverse Oda can be in regards to feminine faces. Amazon Lily, for example. After all of that experience, why would he settle for a character who looks shockingly like Nami if he had such an important role for them as to be a SH? Carrot's face being simple shouldn't be surprising. Besides Inu and Neko, all minks have simple faces. Remember Rebecca? She had a Nami face too. And while she didn't have the relationship with Ace like Yamato, she shared a similar desire (beat up the big bad and save this island).

    At last something we agree on. If Yamato is supposed to join then I don't understand the lack of foreshadowing as well.
    Finally. Common ground. I knew we could do it. :)

    We've been over Carrot's possible role as a lookout time and time again. All Straw Hats are standouts in their respective role, both within their crew and outside. The very first time the whole crew is back together and there's an opportunity for Carrot to be the lookout, Usopp is in the crow's nest first and does the job. That would've been the perfect opportunity for Oda to highlight her again, both to the readers once more and to the Dressrosa crew who have missed seeing her do the job. Yet Oda chose to use Usopp. Why is that?
    Because the plot didn't require it. The same as it was where Jinbe finally showed off his helmsman abilities hundreds of chapters after the story began. People around here constantly said the SHs didn't need one when I and a few others said that would be Jinbe's role. As for Carrot, what I find interesting is that one of the first things that she did on Zou was jump in the air and look a great distance away. Once Carrot took over the duty from Pedro she was seen in that position several times. No guest on the Sunny or Merry has ever taken on a role on the ship and I think that could be significant. Oda intentionally drew her several times in a position that the SHs officially lacked. That role (just like a helsman) is plot specific. She would only see what Oda wanted her to. And to be clear, Usopp is a sniper. Remember how Violet gave him directions? That's what Carrot could technically do if Oda wanted. People saying Usopp can be lookout were the same people saying Franky could be the helmsman.

    With Yamato, I've seen debates about his potential role and this again makes me skeptical of his possibility as a SH. There's nothing shown so far that indicates what his role would be. At least with Carrot, we saw it in like her first 3 panels.

    I still don't think that standing next to someone constitutes as a significant interaction. You could argue that just like not communicating is a form of communication, not speaking or even acknowledging each other is a form of interaction, but that's not the kind of interaction I would see between crewmates.
    That's fair, but let's not pretend that she's some stranger. She risked her life and helped take on an emperor while losing her friend and mentor in the process. How often do you see Luffy interacting with Robin or Franky interacting with Nami? There's nothing wrong with characters not interacting that often. Carrot was around Luffy, so I think that carries more weight than her not being around the Dressrosa crew.

    We weren't shown yet if Yamato has something to compete with that. I think it's very likely that we'll get a Kaidou flashback and Yamato will probably be at the very least a part of that, if not get his own.
    I'd honestly be surprised if we got more backstory on Yamato at this point, but we'll see. We saw the Ace connection, learned of his dream, and found out a couple of details on the journal. We also knew he was trapped on the island by his father. The only big reveal I'm looking forward to is the DF. If it somehow hits that DF theory, it's all over.

    True. Yamato's wish to leave Wano has been reiterated multiple times, unlike Carrot. And he directly asked Luffy to let him on board, Carrot didn't. She just stowed away.
    I'll say this, if he does leave with the SHs, it'll be as Yamato. He'll have to leave Oden behind. I can't see Luffy letting someone on board who pretends to be someone else. My guess is this is why Luffy originally said no. One other quick point is Luffy hasn't even said his name yet. He called him Yama-dude or Yama-guy. Yamato's gonna have to do something major between now and the end of the arc in order to get Luffy to acknowledge his real name. What the would be or how Luffy would witness it is beyond me.

    Again, that might be because of what you said:
    Wait. Is that what you were referencing when you were talking about confirmation bias? That was sarcasm. You didn't see the smiley face?
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; January 9th, 2021 at 07:57 PM.

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