View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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368. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yamato

    189 51.36%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.27%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc)

    1 0.27%
  • Momo

    9 2.45%
  • Tama

    9 2.45%
  • Carrot

    68 18.48%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 1.90%
  • Caribou

    6 1.63%
  • Other

    28 7.61%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    50 13.59%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #3681
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime View Post
    The poster once seriously tried to argue that the Vinsmokes were never portrayed evil/vilified.

    He either doesn’t actually read the series or is incredibly disingenuous either way he isn’t worth any time responding too.
    Cockycent is a smart guy, I've just found him to generally be too assured of how dumb the rest of us are (passively). Still, conversation is best when there's lots of contributing voices in my opinion.
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  2. #3682

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by black-leg jex View Post
    That's not the moment Luffy chose to recruit him though. When he decided on it, he didn't know about the 7 transformations. This is just a fun extra that made Chopper more tantalising, but Luffy already wanted Chopper long before then.
    Oddly enough I watched this ep just last night. Sanji and Luffy were going to close the door to the castle but there was a snow bird nest Chopper was protecting and he yelled at them to not close it. After it donned at them he was a talking walking reindeer, Luffy made his declaration

    Spoiler:



  3. #3683
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaOfHope View Post
    Lily Enstomach from that One Piece Film Z filler comes to mind.
    Damn. Never saw it but after looking her up Oda at least is aware of all of the non-canon DFs used in movies and fillers and okays then cuz he isn't going to use them.
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  4. #3684
    Partly Sunny Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    The problem I have with the Pedro "sacrifice" moment is the manner in how Oda handles present time named character deaths.

    Unless Oda explicitly shows the character to have died such as with Going Merry, Ace, Whitebeard and Yasuie, it is hard to believe a character is actually dead otherwise. And there was ambiguity left by Oda's portrayal of Pedro's "death". Couldn't Oda have shown us a charred body or something to make it more believable that the character had died? Sadly this in turn reduces the emotional impact ambiguous character "deaths" have in the story for me. My first reaction wasn't sadness at Pedro having died but the thought "so, when is Pedro returning..." It would have been so easy for Oda to have shown a lifeless body of Pedro on the ground but he didn't. When Oda has continually walked back characters he has shown to have "died" in the past, it becomes hard to continue believing that a character is dead if there is doubt present. This in turn reduces the emotional impact of the moment. This was the case for me.

    Even now as at chapter 1000, I don't fully believe Pedro was killed. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Pedro showed up at some point in the future story.

    Ambiguous present time named character "deaths" have become such a cheap tool Oda uses to drum up drama and tragedy that any weight it holds has become minimal. At least with the Yasuie death, Oda showed that explicitly. Yasuie was shot many times, Yasuie's life fading away was shown, Yasuie's lifeless body was shown, and Yasuie's will being inherited was also shown. All that went to confirm Yasuie was dead and had no chance of returning to the story in the future save flashbacks.

    My interpretation of Pedro's "death" is clearly different than others but that is the reason why I don't consider that moment to be a very emotionally heavy moment relative to the other moments the Straw Hat Pirates got prior to them joining.

    For me, one of the most emotionally heavy moments in terms of substantial interactions with Luffy in the New World story was when Luffy urged Momonosuke to request his help himself. This moment conveys the understanding Luffy has in Momonosuke and the importance Momonosuke serves going forward. Luffy wanted Momonosuke to become the man he talked about becoming in their previous "conversations". It carried so much emotional weight when Momonosuke finally asked Luffy to defeat Kaido for him. And it was because of Momonosuke's words that the Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai alliance was formed. Luffy may conflict with Momonosuke but he is one of the people who understands Momonosuke the most.

    If there is to be another character joining the Straw Hat Pirates, I would prefer they had interactions similar to the ones Luffy had with Momonosuke (in terms of weight and emotion).
    Last edited by Syphin; January 8th, 2021 at 03:43 PM.

  5. #3685

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Oda is reaping what he sows, unfortunately, so indeed Pedro's sacrifice lost impact because of readers' skeptcism, but retrospectivelly it's hard to buy the possibility that Pedro is still alive, so we should understand that scene for what it was.

    I don't think a lifeless body would change anything, unless it was a gore scene with his limbs everywhere. Other characters' comments or a narrator box or a vivre card could have "certified" his death, but how much would this prevent readers from believing that Pedro was still alive? In a way, Oda did put a lot of effort into making it look like Pedro died for real, but it was just our denial that prevented us from believing. When Yasuie died, it was easier to believe also because of Pedro's precedent.

    Btw, the entire drama and grief in the crew for Pedro were portrayed for at least three chapters in a row, and it was very touching, and then his death was remembered a few times after it, including the last chapter of WCI... so, despite the inevitable skeptcism at the time, it's impossible for me to say that I was not moved by what happened. Those chapters were among the best in WCI.

  6. #3686

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Maybe you'll get this and maybe you won't, but this is precisely why I won't even give you an alternate take. If you think your opinion is a fact, which your language is dictating must be the case, then we can't have an actual conversation. You can't even believe that I don't think it's a fact, even though the nature of what I'm inviting you to argue with (in good faith) is nonfactual. I won't give you a moment if you can't understand that the point of contention isn't one that's right or wrong.
    Franky had almost no investment in Merry (430). The writer of the story has emphasized how he values death.

    Pedro sacrificed himself in a Yonko's territory. Again, there is nothing in the immediate story that can equate to losing Pedro in that manner for Franky and the crew.

    Now that I think about it, after the clash on Water 7 (Luffy vs Franky), he spent most of his time with Usopp, Robin and Sanji.

  7. #3687
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    At least with the Yasuie death, Oda showed that explicitly. Yasuie was shot many times, Yasuie's life fading away was shown, Yasuie's lifeless body was shown, and Yasuie's will being inherited was also shown. All that went to confirm Yasuie was dead and had no chance of returning to the story in the future save flashbacks.
    I wouldn't be so sure. In fact, I'm borrowing Greg's foot and putting it down for myself. I'm guaranteeing that we will see Kanjuro again, and with him in one way or another, Yasuie. There's no way Oda sets that up and doesn't go through with it.
    edit: If it doesn't happen by the end of Wano I'll change my profile picture to something really stupid, like Doffy's Birdcage or Pell's sacrifice.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Franky had almost no investment in Merry (430). The writer of the story has emphasized how he values death.

    Pedro sacrificed himself in a Yonko's territory. Again, there is nothing in the immediate story that can equate to losing Pedro in that manner for Franky and the crew.

    Now that I think about it, after the clash on Water 7 (Luffy vs Franky), he spent most of his time with Usopp, Robin and Sanji.
    I'd love to discuss this with you, I really would!
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  8. #3688

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post

    I'd love to discuss this with you, I really would!
    Franky and the crew's investment in Merry compared to the crew and Carrot's investment in Pedro? I'm here for it

  9. #3689
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Franky and the crew's investment in Merry compared to the crew and Carrot's investment in Pedro? I'm here for it
    I'll only discuss if you can agree that your opinion isn't factual. There's no scoreboard so we can only try to come to an understanding, not win or lose. Also, to my understanding, the point of contention isn't about Franky and the crew's investment in Merry, but whether Franky has a moment with the crew before joining that's as impactful as Pedro's death (which is a shared moment with Carrot).
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  10. #3690

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    I'll only discuss if you can agree that your opinion isn't factual. There's no scoreboard so we can only try to come to an understanding, not win or lose. Also, to my understanding, the point of contention isn't about Franky and the crew's investment in Merry, but whether Franky has a moment with the crew before joining that's as impactful as Pedro's death (which is a shared moment with Carrot).
    There is a moment now mentioned to be in contention, so it stands as an opinion indeed. There wasn't one before, hence why I called it a fact along with another reason of how the author values death.

  11. #3691

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Sure hope this thread has a gambling license.

    Move over las vegas, APs nakamates thread is the new betting capital

  12. #3692
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Sure hope this thread has a gambling license.

    Move over las vegas, APs nakamates thread is the new betting capital
    Chapters are now a pay per view event

  13. #3693
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    There is a moment now mentioned to be in contention, so it stands as an opinion indeed.
    That's all I wanted.
    I'm at work right now and leaving soon, but when I get home I'll continue typing up my feelings on the matter. I love doing stuff like this so thanks for going along with me.
    Also, the easiest answer is that Franky freed Robin and revealed that he would build the Straw Hats a ship/built it, but there's more I'd like to share as well.

    There wasn't one before, hence why I called it a fact along with another reason of how the author values death.
    I don't agree; I asked for you to admit it in response to this comment: "Saying that he has nothing compared to losing a friend in the immediate story is factual."

    Even your initial comment (or at least the part of it I was commenting on) isn't about something that can be factual: "As if Franky had a moment before joining that is equal to losing a friend in the immediate story."
    I was directly responding to the idea that nothing Franky did before joining was AS substantial as losing Pedro to the crew.
    Last edited by andre; January 8th, 2021 at 04:59 PM.
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  14. #3694

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    That's all I wanted.
    I'm at work right now and leaving soon, but when I get home I'll continue typing up my feelings on the matter. I love doing stuff like this so thanks for going along with me.


    I don't agree; I asked for you to admit it in response to this comment: "Saying that he has nothing compared to losing a friend in the immediate story is factual."

    Even your initial comment (or at least the part of it I was commenting on) isn't about something that can be factual: "As if Franky had a moment before joining that is equal to losing a friend in the immediate story."
    I was directly responding to the idea that nothing Franky did before joining was AS substantial as losing Pedro to the crew.
    Until you are relieved of your duty then.

  15. #3695
    Partly Sunny Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Oda is reaping what he sows, unfortunately, so indeed Pedro's sacrifice lost impact because of readers' skeptcism, but retrospectivelly it's hard to buy the possibility that Pedro is still alive, so we should understand that scene for what it was.

    I don't think a lifeless body would change anything, unless it was a gore scene with his limbs everywhere. Other characters' comments or a narrator box or a vivre card could have "certified" his death, but how much would this prevent readers from believing that Pedro was still alive? In a way, Oda did put a lot of effort into making it look like Pedro died for real, but it was just our denial that prevented us from believing. When Yasuie died, it was easier to believe also because of Pedro's precedent.

    Btw, the entire drama and grief in the crew for Pedro were portrayed for at least three chapters in a row, and it was very touching, and then his death was remembered a few times after it, including the last chapter of WCI... so, despite the inevitable skeptcism at the time, it's impossible for me to say that I was not moved by what happened. Those chapters were among the best in WCI.
    It would have changed things significantly for me. A lifeless body (like with Yasuie) that established Pedro's life having completely ended would have changed the perception around the proceeding scenes of grief completely for me.

    Rather than not be impacted by Carrot and the Straw Hat Pirates "mourning" of Pedro's "sacrifice", if Pedro's charred lifeless body was shown, I would not have been distracted by the thought of Oda tricking the readers once again with his handling of present time named character "deaths" (looks at Bellamy, Pagaya, Bentham, etc). The grief that followed on the Thousand Sunny played out more to me as a natural reaction to the events that preceded it rather than an emotional moment that defined a point in the story. I was more interested in seeing Jinbe helm the Thousand Sunny and Luffy face off against Katakuri (the billion belly bounty Sweet Commander) than to see the crews reactions to Pedro's "death" because at that time, I didn't believe Pedro died in the slightest. My perception and feelings towards the "grief" were affected by Oda's writing style which is why I believe if Pedro's "death" had more certainty applied to it when it happened - a lifeless charred body - it would have completely changed the emotion attached to the "grief" (for me at least). I don't think I am alone as well. Pedro's death and the subsequent mourning surrounding it were not very emotionally impactful to me due to the distractions sourced from Oda's writing style and tendencies.

    Pedro being dead is not a fact at this point. The way Oda had illustrated the "sacrifice" leaves open the possibility that Pedro could show up again later in the story. Regardless of how unlikely it is, the possibility still exist (based on my interpretation of the scene and how Oda illustrated it). All it would have taken Oda was a panel of Pedro's dead body (like with Yasuie). Hell, I would even have taken a panel of Carrot stating during her mourning - "I will not let your death be in vain Pedro, I will carry on what you started" to be satisfactory proof that Oda wishes to have Pedro's will be inherited and thus requires him to be dead.

    The same things applies with Orochi and Kanjuro's "deaths". It had no impact on me. All I can think about is "when and how are they going to return to add more danger to the arc". The Akazaya Nine's battle against Kaido was also affected by Oda's handling of present time named character deaths. I expected none of the Akazaya Nine to die because they had been no set-up for any to die. This in turn affected how dramatic and tense the overall battle was.
    Last edited by Syphin; January 8th, 2021 at 08:18 PM.

  16. #3696

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    It would have changed things significantly for me. A lifeless body (like with Yasuie) that established Pedro's life having completely ended would have changed the perception around the proceeding scenes of grief completely for me.

    Rather than not be impacted by Carrot and the Straw Hat Pirates "mourning" of Pedro's "sacrifice", if Pedro's charred lifeless body was shown, I would not have been distracted by the thought of Oda tricking the readers once again with his handling of present time named character "deaths" (looks at Bellamy, Pagaya, Bentham, etc). The grief that followed on the Thousand Sunny played out more to me as a natural reaction to the events that preceded it rather than an emotional moment that defined a point in the story. I was more interested in seeing Jinbe helm the Thousand Sunny and Luffy face off against Katakuri (the billion belly bounty Sweet Commander) than to see the crews reactions to Pedro's "death" because at that time, I didn't believe Pedro died in the slightest. My perception and feelings towards the "grief" were affected by Oda's writing style which is why I believe if Pedro's "death" had more certainty applied to it when it happened - a lifeless charred body - it would have completely changed the emotion attached to the "grief" (for me at least). I don't think I am alone as well. Pedro's death and the subsequent mourning surrounding it were not very emotionally impactful to me due to the distractions sourced from Oda's writing style and tendencies.

    Pedro being dead is not a fact at this point. The way Oda had illustrated the "sacrifice" leaves open the possibility that Pedro could show up again later in the story. Regardless of how unlikely it is, the possibility still exist (based on my interpretation of the scene and how Oda illustrated it). All it would have taken Oda was a panel of Pedro's dead body (like with Yasuie). Hell, I would even have taken a panel of Carrot stating during her mourning - "I will not let your death be in vain Pedro, I will carry on what you started" to be satisfactory proof that Oda wishes to have Pedro's will be inherited and thus requires him to be dead.

    The same things applies with Orochi and Kanjuro's "deaths". It had no impact on me. All I can think about is "when and how are they going to return to add more danger to the arc". The Akazaya Nine's battle against Kaido was also affected by Oda's handling of present time named character deaths. I knew none of the Akazaya Nine were going to die because they had been no set-up for any to die. This in turn affected how dramatic and tense the overall battle was.
    I can't believe we're still here. Pedro is dead. He was been grieved across arcs by numerous characters. His death wasn't pointless. He saved the SHs. He has a headstone honoring his memory. He will not be back. His death had meaning and has inspired others.
    Spoiler:


  17. #3697
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Kanjuro had the hat placed over him, a thematic equivalent of covering him with a shroud. There wasn't a need for any of the Akazaya to say anything: he's done.

    Orochi has the potential outs of his fruit creating multiple heads and Fukurokuju, his head officer, conspicuously sneaking off somewhere. It could lead to something else, like stealing Orochi's power or something, but it's still a bit open until Wano ends.

    There's generally still a better chance of a OP character surviving than not, which grants actual deaths in the story a lot more weight when they actually happen. Body or not, Pedro's death was hammered in over and over again as recently as five chapters ago. His death is still driving the actions of Carrot and Wanda forward. It's not being reversed now.



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  18. #3698
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Until you are relieved of your duty then.

    First, I guess it has to be said that even if we know Oda puts a lot of substance and value in deaths, we can't be sure that every one has the same amount of value (in his eyes) or that he values it above everything else in the story. This only matters because I think part of what you're arguing is that Oda meant Pedro's death to be as substantial as anything we saw in Franky's story before joining, which didn't include the same sort of death as Pedro's sacrifice.


    So with that dealt with, I want to talk about how I think we can measure the impact an event has on characters. For me, it's always in the proceeding events and how characters change. If they change a lot and if plans change or are altered because of an event, then the event was impactful. If not, then I think it was less. You can disagree with me, but that's where I'm at for right now.


    On that note we can look at the straw hats before and after Pedro's sacrifice. Beforehand, they're running for Big Mom, who has revealed herself as a beast. Sanji has separated from them to bake their cake, and Kata plus Peros are on the Sunny. Afterwards, Luffy takes Kata into the mirror world, Peros is missing an arm (but fine, basically) and... The Straw Hats continue to run. They lament their weakness, but Jinbe makes them focus and they continue running away from Big Mom and eventually even repel her. Why I think this lacks punch is because it's hard to see how things would be different if he hadn't sacrificed himself. They would still be running, assuming they had found a way to repel Peros. Luffy still would have needed to take away Kata. At best, Carrot would be more chipper instead of distraught, but everyone else is basically doing the same things they had been with a little added grief.

    Now Pedro did save them from Peros in the moment, but because of how they acted afterwards, it feels a bit less impactful for me. That's my opinion.


    As for Franky


    His drudging of Usopp is the catalyst for all of the strife in Water 7. Luffy makes the decision about Merry after fighting off Franky's goons. Usopp is emotionally at his weakest because he lost the money to Franky and feels as worthless as he thinks the crew is treating Merry. Usopp leaves and the crew has real arguments. Zoro threatens to leave if Luffy lets Usopp jump right back in the crew without an apology. For me it's the most tense crew interaction in the series thus far. I think Franky's beatdown of Usopp is at the heart of this which is also why it's so impactful that he fixes it and sets the crew back on track, after they were forced to grow from the stress of it all.
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  19. #3699

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Syphin,

    Despite his lifeless body shown in the pages of the manga, there are theories that Yasuie is still alive. It explains that Kanjuro, who retrieved the body, was the one to realize that Yasuie was actually alive and so he chose a new destiny for the old man, who is now kidnapped somewhere in Wano.

    I don't believe in these theories myself, but what's preventing other people from believing that Yasuie being alive is plausible based on Oda's previous records of not killing characters? A lifeless body may be enough for you, but it doesn't completely solve people's skepticism, unless the character was beheaded or something - and, funnily enough, Orochi is even beyond this case, since he could be alive despite beheaded, lol.

    A lifeless body is hardly proof of anything because we can't verify for ourselves if the person is not just unconscious instead. So we see Pedro's apparently lifeless body in the ground and... how do we know for sure? People would still be doubting. What Oda did to make sure that we would understand that Ace and Whitebeard died was the use of other narrative resources, like the narrator box for Whitebeard and the Vivre Card for Ace. We could also get it from the tone of the story.

    I understand that Oda's bad writing tendencies disturbed your reading of the scene and you couldn't appreciate the dramatic aspect of the loss for Carrot and the SHs, and there's no way to fix that anymore. However, it is what it is. As I said before, Oda did put some effort to make it look like Pedro was dead for real. Believe me, I was also skeptical when it happened, but soon I changed my mind and, at the end of WCI, I was sure that Pedro was dead. Is it absolutely impossible that he could be alive? Well, no, but it's not like Oda is writing his death.

    Besides that, contrary to what you said, did respond in a way similar to what you're demanding. Besides what people have already said here, like Carrot and Sanji's scene, and Carrot still trying to understand Pedro's last words to her right now while fighting Perospero, there's this moment here:

    "I'll fight to make up for you-teia, Pedro"
    Spoiler:
    Last edited by theackwardstation; January 8th, 2021 at 09:56 PM.

  20. #3700
    Partly Sunny Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I guess my interpretation of way Oda handles character death is quite different than others. That is fine.

    I am not asking anyone to agree with me. I am substantiating why I believe and argue certain things.

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Despite his lifeless body shown in the pages of the manga, there are theories that Yasuie is still alive. It explains that Kanjuro, who retrieved the body, was the one to realize that Yasuie was actually alive and so he chose a new destiny for the old man, who is now kidnapped somewhere in Wano.
    Is that so? I haven't read that before but it does sound interesting. I can only speak for myself and a panel showing Pedro's charred lifeless body would have confirmed his death fully for me.

    As for the Carrot quote before going Sulong, my interpretation of that scene was it being more situational in Carrot stating she will make up for the loss of Pedro in going against the Big Mom Pirates.

    For Carrot to be shown to be inheriting Pedro's will, I would have preferred more focused dialogue where she mentions she will 'finish what Pedro started' which would have helped to convey that she acknowledges the "Dawn" Pedro was fighting for. Carrot does later mention to Perospero that Pedro's death "brought us to this battle happening right now" which does indicate that she understands there is something "deeper" in play. The contents of the fight Carrot and Wanda have against Perospero could be what fully establishes Carrot inheriting Pedro's will. This moment would be very substantial to the story, Carrot and the reader's perception of her.

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