View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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  • Yamato

    101 41.74%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.41%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc.)

    1 0.41%
  • Momo

    8 3.31%
  • Tama

    7 2.89%
  • Carrot

    53 21.90%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 2.89%
  • Caribou

    3 1.24%
  • Other

    22 9.09%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    39 16.12%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #2661
    Discovered Stowaway Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Solid View Post
    Yeah I saw that too, feels like we were apforumers in exile

    I dont think that will be the case though, the stonemasonry and the one that will teach the legacy of the kozuki to Momo and Hiyori will be none other than Sukiyaki himself, better known as Hitetsu these days.
    That's an interesting theory but how would that work? If Sukiyaki is Hitetsu, why would Sukiyaki not have gone to see Oden once he came back from his adventure or during the time Oden was making a "fool" of himself for 5 years. Sukiyaki was the one person that could have delegitimatized Orochi's rule by publicly speaking out against it. Instead he opted to let his people continue to be misled and suffer under Orochi? Was Sukiyaki captured during that whole time?

    And on that note, surely if Hitetsu was Sukiyaki, he would have at least attempted to save Oden, the Akazaya Nine, Toki, Hiyori or even Momonosuke. It would seem strange for Hitetsu to be Sukiyaki and not make any effort to save any of his family. Even Yamato attempted to save Momonosuke and she was 8. Sukiyaki not making a similar effort would be a uncharacteristic move for a Kozuki clan member. He can't have not known what was going on as he was given Oden's swords Enma and Ame no Habakiri [by Shinobu]. He would have recognised the swords and shortly known what was going on. Considering Oden trusted Hitetsu enough to let him hold onto his Meito until he could pass it onto Hiyori and Momonosuke, there implies a past relationship between the two. A close one. If Sukiyaki were Hitetsu, surely Oden would have known.

    What about the 20 years where Hiyori was struggling? He may not have met Hiyori but he should have recognised his granddaughter when she was Komurasaki.

    Or was Sukiyaki suffering from amnesia? If that were the case, it would involve too many panels to explain for seemingly not really much payoff. And it just comes off as a reverse Dressrosa development and a poor one at that - here Sukiyaki forgets his identity whereas in Dressrosa nobody could remember Kyros (and his wife even died forgetting that she had a badass husband whom she gave up her royalty status for). Hitetsu's character hasn't been built up to hold such emotional resonance.

    Now Sukiyaki may still show up at the end of the arc after it is revealed that he has been held by Orochi in an underground dungeon for 25 years. From my perspective and interpretation of the Wano Kuni arc, I can't see Hitesu being Sukiyaki.

    I would prefer it is Sukiyaki stayed dead as Hiyori and Momonosuke have grown up enough to not require any parental figures to move forward. They have both matured phenomenally and will be the ones to lead Wano Kuni and the rest of the world into a new dawn (with the Straw Hat Pirates opening up a path for them).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    BTW, I was reading your Yamato analysis on Worstgen, and while I can't say I'm on board, it was explained and thought out very well. I do like the idea of some Poneglyph masonry secrets being hidden in Oden's journal, and it would be an interesting potential path for Yamato to take.
    Thanks :D. I like entertaining possibilities.

    I find Yamato has so many avenues in which she could be written and that fascinates me. As I said in that post on Worstgen, Yamato has an immense level of potential.

    I was reading the chapter thread and came across a post from Monquito that was very intriguing and could serve to develop both Yamato and the Blackbeard Pirates and the connection between the two:

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    Friendly reminder that this is absolutely going to play a role in the future, all we need is just one Gecko to appear.

    Monquito's right, that scene could be incredibly relevant going forward.

    We know from Yonko we have seen that in addition to their core crew, they also have numerous fodder to pad the battles/wars with. The Big Mom Pirates have the Homies. The Beast Pirates have the Headliners and Pleasures.

    The Whitebeard Pirates had his divisions but as they were not facing off against the Straw Hat Pirates, the members did not have to include notable fodder such as is the case with the Big Mom Pirates Homies and the Beast Pirates Headliners/Pleasures.

    The Red Hair Pirates are an exception. It appears they only operate with their core crew. But given that Shanks has been developed into a character that will have a different story/role than the rest of the other Yonko, it makes sense.

    The remaining Yonko crew is the Blackbeard Pirates who at this point only have the Pinkbeard Pirates as their subordinates. The Big Mom Pirates and the Beast Pirates have had years and decades to increase the size of their respective organisations. So how can the Blackbeard Pirates, who have only been active for 2-3 years bolster their ranks in a relatively quick period of time? Teach certainly doesn't possess the same level of charm as Luffy (and Sanji), so the relationship building route is not an option.

    The answer exists right there in the panel Monquito has highlighted. And wouldn't you know, a person capable of animating such an army has arrived on Teach's doorstep only 2 weeks ago within the One Piece world.

    Spoiler:

    If Teach ain't obtaining the Tori Tori no Mi, Model: Phoenix from Wano Kuni, or another powerful Zoan Devil Fruit, or Nico Robin, or Oden's journal, or the Road Poneglyph, or kairoseki weapons, or Orochi's Marine battleship, he may just end up obtaining an army of Samurai zombies for the future battles/wars he will have against the Marines/World Government and the Straw Hat Pirates + allies.

    Now how does this relate to Yamato? With the Samurai's corpses raised from the dead and directed toward attacking the saviors of Wano Kuni, the perversion at play would be nothing short of a desecration of the Samurai's honour. The same way Wano Kuni were horrified their hero Ryuma had his corpse dug up 23 years ago, the nation would be equally as horrified when they learn the Samurai who died fighting for their liberation had their corpses dug up as well.

    It wouldn't be uncharacteristic for the people of Wano Kuni to want that nightmare to be remedied, especially once the borders of Wano Kuni are opened. With the Akazaya Nine's story arc done once the Wano borders are open, I don't see any of them being tasked with the duty of liberating the Samurai corpses. Rather, with Yamato and Momonosuke forming a close bond, I can see Momonosuke requesting Yamato (with Ame no Habakiri in hand) to stop the Blackbeard Pirates from continuing to dishonour the brave Samurai who sacrificed their lives during the years. If Yamato does join the Straw Hat Pirates, this plot would serve to tie her closely to the Blackbeard Pirates and have genuine motivation to battle them.

  2. #2662

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    That's an interesting theory but how would that work? If Sukiyaki is Hitetsu, why would Sukiyaki not have gone to see Oden once he came back from his adventure or during the time Oden was making a "fool" of himself for 5 years. Sukiyaki was the one person that could have delegitimatized Orochi's rule by publicly speaking out against it. Instead he opted to let his people continue to be misled and suffer under Orochi? Was Sukiyaki captured during that whole time?

    And on that note, surely if Hitetsu was Sukiyaki, he would have at least attempted to save Oden, the Akazaya Nine, Toki, Hiyori or even Momonosuke. It would seem strange for Hitetsu to be Sukiyaki and not make any effort to save any of his family. Even Yamato attempted to save Momonosuke and she was 8. Sukiyaki not making a similar effort would be a uncharacteristic move for a Kozuki clan member. He can't have not known what was going on as he was given Oden's swords Enma and Ame no Habakiri [by Shinobu]. He would have recognised the swords and shortly known what was going on. Considering Oden trusted Hitetsu enough to let him hold onto his Meito until he could pass it onto Hiyori and Momonosuke, there implies a past relationship between the two. A close one. If Sukiyaki were Hitetsu, surely Oden would have known.

    What about the 20 years where Hiyori was struggling? He may not have met Hiyori but he should have recognised his granddaughter when she was Komurasaki.

    Or was Sukiyaki suffering from amnesia? If that were the case, it would involve too many panels to explain for seemingly not really much payoff. And it just comes off as a reverse Dressrosa development and a poor one at that - here Sukiyaki forgets his identity whereas in Dressrosa nobody could remember Kyros (and his wife even died forgetting that she had a badass husband whom she gave up her royalty status for). Hitetsu's character hasn't been built up to hold such emotional resonance.

    Now Sukiyaki may still show up at the end of the arc after it is revealed that he has been held by Orochi in an underground dungeon for 25 years. From my perspective and interpretation of the Wano Kuni arc, I can't see Hitesu being Sukiyaki.

    I would prefer it is Sukiyaki stayed dead as Hiyori and Momonosuke have grown up enough to not require any parental figures to move forward. They have both matured phenomenally and will be the ones to lead Wano Kuni and the rest of the world into a new dawn (with the Straw Hat Pirates opening up a path for them).
    Yeah, itd take some mental gymnastics for the motif to make sense, but it could fit into the arc thematically, maybe he really did give up on his name like Momo never did, maybe he was blackmailed or felt great shame or whatever. The motif and story can be hard to predict, im looking more at the facts and linking them together, just another side effect after rereading and analysing everything that has to do with tama lol

    - Sukiyaki was said to have died, yet Orochi was quite ambiguous about it.
    - Hitetsu never appeared and was never mentioned in the flashback, almost like he didn't exist
    - Age and size matches up, Hitetsu is wearing a mask.
    - the biggest clue, Hitetsu is a kokeshi doll collector, Kokeshi dolls was found in Orochis basement, which is also the former shoguns, Sukiyakis basement, and Sukiyaki was seen playing with Kokeshi dolls in the flashback.

  3. #2663

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    This is the best explanation for the whole Kokeshi dolls subplot I've seen so far.

  4. #2664

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    The problem with this theory is that Tenguyama is from the Hitetsu lineage, which is a famous family that we know exist (not something forged), and Tenguyama himself is a great bladesmith like his ancestors, and he is credited as the creator of the Sandai Kitetsu as well as Ame no Habakiri... and the latter was Oden's sword, implying that Oden and probably the scabbards had met Tenguyama in the past. Therefore, Tenguyama can't be Sukiyaki.

    Unless the real Tenguyama died and Sukiyaki is pretending to be him.

  5. #2665

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    The problem with this theory is that Tenguyama is from the Hitetsu lineage, which is a famous family that we know exist (not something forged), and Tenguyama himself is a great bladesmith like his ancestors, and he is credited as the creator of the Sandai Kitetsu as well as Ame no Habakiri... and the latter was Oden's sword, implying that Oden and probably the scabbards had met Tenguyama in the past. Therefore, Tenguyama can't be Sukiyaki.

    Unless the real Tenguyama died and Sukiyaki is pretending to be him.
    Hitetsu is his given name, Tenguyama is supposedly his family name, but it also sounds very much like a made up name, and in fact Kotetsu, his ancestor was never mentioned to carry the tenguyama name either, he is just Hitetsus ancestor nothing is said about the tenguyama lineage. So Kotetsu might just be another Kozuki.

    there's actually no implying that they have ever met, Hitetsu is completely absent in the flashback, and neither the scabbards nor momo didnt know who he was either, the only one who seemed like she might have met him before was Shinobu, and she is also the one making a note of the kokeshi dolls in the basement.

  6. #2666

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Man, the Kokeshi doll detail is quite damning.

  7. #2667

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I recall that one very loyal servant of Sukiyaki ended up with Toki and then we know nothing of him either, he should know, but its apparently gone.

    I also wonder how the reason why he can't leave the forest fits within all of this.

  8. #2668
    Discovered Stowaway Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Yeah, I'm actually quite interested in the unnamed aide of Sukiyaki.

    He wasn't shown to have died during the flashback and as you mentioned Monquito, he was last seen assisting Toki and her kids.

    Also, a correction from my previous post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    ...he was given Oden's swords Enma and Ame no Habakiri [by Shinobu].
    Realised Toki was the last person seen with the swords:

    Spoiler:

    Considering Toki knew she was likely going to die, she may have entrusted the swords to the unnamed aide.

    That aide could have passed the swords onto Hitetsu or an even spicy twist could be to reveal that Hitetsu was that aide. And he is a Kokeshi Doll collector because it reminds him of his former lord (whom he failed).

  9. #2669

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Solid View Post
    Hitetsu is his given name, Tenguyama is supposedly his family name, but it also sounds very much like a made up name, and in fact Kotetsu, his ancestor was never mentioned to carry the tenguyama name either, he is just Hitetsus ancestor nothing is said about the tenguyama lineage. So Kotetsu might just be another Kozuki.

    there's actually no implying that they have ever met, Hitetsu is completely absent in the flashback, and neither the scabbards nor momo didnt know who he was either, the only one who seemed like she might have met him before was Shinobu, and she is also the one making a note of the kokeshi dolls in the basement.
    Sorry for my mistake with the surname... but where did you see that the scabbards didn't know who he was? Hitetsu joined them offscreen like it was the most natural thing in the world. He was even keeping the two blades to deliver back to their inheritors and nobody found it weird. For him to have the blades, someone should even have delivered to him in the first place, like Toki, who was the last one to own the swords after Oden and probably should have planned a way to make them find Hiyori and Momonosuke in the future... so Hitetsu should have been a family friend who she entrusted the blades with. If he had simply stolen them from the castle in flames, it should have raised some questions, right?

    Also, Hitetsu should be a relatively famous person, especially to swordsmen and daimyos, considering his position as a great bladesmith. So I question: is Sukiyaki stealing Hitetsu's identity?

  10. #2670

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Sorry for my mistake with the surname... but where did you see that the scabbards didn't know who he was? Hitetsu joined them offscreen like it was the most natural thing in the world. He was even keeping the two blades to deliver back to their inheritors and nobody found it weird. For him to have the blades, someone should even have delivered to him in the first place, like Toki, who was the last one to own the swords after Oden and probably should have planned a way to make them find Hiyori and Momonosuke in the future... so Hitetsu should have been a family friend who she entrusted the blades with. If he had simply stolen them from the castle in flames, it should have raised some questions, right?

    Also, Hitetsu should be a relatively famous person, especially to swordsmen and daimyos, considering his position as a great bladesmith. So I question: is Sukiyaki stealing Hitetsu's identity?
    the question is rather, where did we see them knowing who he was? it was a big deal of finding out about yasuie and the other scabbards, but hitetsu as you said, was just there.
    only your imagination limits the possibilities of how Hitetsu got his hands on the swords, maybe he saw Tokis speech and death and ventured out to the castle to have a look and found the swords, or maybe he got them from the kozuki vassal, etc

    the point is with all this, at least imo, is that there is more to explore in amigasa village, is hitetsu really sukiyaki? why did drake attack the amigasa village and kill the 5 samurais? is tama just another orphan or is she from special background? what about the timeline inconsistency, is it truly an error that never got corrected or is there something hidden there? etc

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