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Thread: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

  1. #501

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Prettymuch every page of One Piece is cropped. I'm pretty sure it's been literally decades since we had one without art running off at least one edge of the page.

    But sometimes there's a milimetre or two of difference in how the magazine and volume versions are cropped (and apparently between the English and Spanish official releases too) so it was worth checking if there was any change, given how much debate that one page sparked back when it came out.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    Oop, there it is. Imagine the stir the closer cropping would have caused if we hadn't already got the real whole crew at once panel.
    That is totally true. Every page of One Piece is cropped, and in every version!

    The only exception is the Spanish official version, which is the least cropped from all these versions. I once asked Redon if he had a backup of these Spanish chapters, but sadly I never got a reply. If anyone has it that would be awesome!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
    An author does know what the margins are, so anything they want to be sure won't be cropped, like word balloons and such, goes well inside that margin.
    Of course margins do exist..but, if you saw the raw art of each chapter, you'd notice that each frame is closed.

    Take a look at this :

    Spoiler:


    If they wanted it, they could release a full panel version...

    Unfortunately, we have to accept the situation as it is....

  2. #502

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuga-san View Post
    That is totally true. Every page of One Piece is cropped, and in every version!

    The only exception is the Spanish official version, which is the least cropped from all these versions. I once asked Redon if he had a backup of these Spanish chapters, but sadly I never got a reply. If anyone has it that would be awesome!!



    Of course margins do exist..but, if you saw the raw art of each chapter, you'd notice that each frame is closed.

    Take a look at this :



    If they wanted it, they could release a full panel version...

    Unfortunately, we have to accept the situation as it is....
    But is that unfortunate? The art is designed to look the way it's displayed. Having the art run off the page means all the page is used (and given how busy the art is, means it can be displayed as large as possible) and gives the story an impression of being too big to be contained by the book. Look at all the awkward empty space beyond the speech bubbles on the top, right and bottom edges of the page, compared to how the ones on the inner panels and the left edge (which faces into the spine of a physical book in this case) are snug up against their panel boarders. There's not much we would stand to actually gain from having a "full panel" release. Oda's been doing this long enough to know not to put anything he considers important outside the edges.

  3. #503

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    But is that unfortunate? The art is designed to look the way it's displayed. Having the art run off the page means all the page is used (and given how busy the art is, means it can be displayed as large as possible) and gives the story an impression of being too big to be contained by the book. Look at all the awkward empty space beyond the speech bubbles on the top, right and bottom edges of the page, compared to how the ones on the inner panels and the left edge (which faces into the spine of a physical book in this case) are snug up against their panel boarders. There's not much we would stand to actually gain from having a "full panel" release. Oda's been doing this long enough to know not to put anything he considers important outside the edges.
    You are right, we don't miss anything really important.

    But, I have to disagree because I think it would be better if we had a full version, or at least, one like the Spanish official one (which is cropped but not as much as the English and Japanese ones).

    I understand your argument though. When we face something like this, there are always two options. We either choose to complain about it, or see the good side and try to justify it to reassure ourselves. That's human. I noticed this problem long ago and I used to have the same reasoning.

    Obviously I won't try to find any justifications for this anymore, because the Spanish version shows that if they wanted to give us a near full page (with minimum cropping) that would be possible (particularly digitally). It's just a convenient choice they made. I still hope we'll get a "full" version (and when I say "full", I mean like the Spanish one) someday though. Somehow.

  4. #504

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuga-san View Post
    You are right, we don't miss anything really important.

    But, I have to disagree because I think it would be better if we had a full version, or at least, one like the Spanish official one (which is cropped but not as much as the English and Japanese ones).

    I understand your argument though. When we face something like this, there are always two options. We either choose to complain about it, or see the good side and try to justify it to reassure ourselves. That's human. I noticed this problem long ago and I used to have the same reasoning.

    Obviously I won't try to find any justifications for this anymore, because the Spanish version shows that if they wanted to give us a near full page (with minimum cropping) that would be possible (particularly digitally). It's just a convenient choice they made. I still hope we'll get a "full" version (and when I say "full", I mean like the Spanish one) someday though. Somehow.
    Agree to disagree I guess. I think it's always a fun novelty to see the little bit extra when it comes up when they show the manuscripts or when a page is misprinted, but as an actual aesthetic/readability thing, the empty space and awkward speech bubble placement aren't worth it for a full release. You don't have to characterise it like I'm justifying something unacceptable to myself because I feel I've got no choice, it's just a fact that we're already seeing the manga as it was intended to be read and there are good reasons it's done the way it is.

  5. #505

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Agree to disagree I guess. I think it's always a fun novelty to see the little bit extra when it comes up when they show the manuscripts or when a page is misprinted, but as an actual aesthetic/readability thing, the empty space and awkward speech bubble placement aren't worth it for a full release. You don't have to characterise it like I'm justifying something unacceptable to myself because I feel I've got no choice, it's just a fact that we're already seeing the manga as it was intended to be read and there are good reasons it's done the way it is.
    Agree to disagree yeah completely. But courteously!

    You have your opinion. It may be a fact for you, for me it's an opinion and vice versa, what is a fact for me is an opinion for you.

    I won't try to win this debate by stating "facts", this is pointless. In the end, nobody can't deny that there's a difference between the Spanish, Japanese, and English versions. That's all.

    I'll stop here for my part, this debate is pointless because it won't change anything to the situation itself. It's just that one will feel like he won and the other like he lost. Let's say that I lost and you won

    Have a good day!

  6. #506

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuga-san View Post
    Agree to disagree yeah completely. But courteously!

    You have your opinion. It may be a fact for you, for me it's an opinion and vice versa, what is a fact for me is an opinion for you.

    I won't try to win this debate by stating "facts", this is pointless. In the end, nobody can't deny that there's a difference between the Spanish, Japanese, and English versions. That's all.

    I'll stop here for my part, this debate is pointless because it won't change anything to the situation itself. It's just that one will feel like he won and the other like he lost. Let's say that I lost and you won

    Have a good day!
    Yeah, I've seen the potential back and forth before. We could talk about how the difference between the English and Japanese cropping could be measured in pixels in most cases while the Spanish release is a clear outlier and debate what, if anything, that means, but we're not going to change each other's minds about what we want to see of think is worth seeing. And there isn't anything wrong with that.

    Hope you enjoy the rest of your evening!

  7. #507

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    the empty space and awkward speech bubble placement aren't worth it for a full release.
    Well, the awkward speech bubble placement certainly wouldn't happen if the authors knew the page wouldn't be cropped. In a world where the entire page is always fully printed, the speech bubbles would be adequately placed.

    And I actually like the empty spaces with the frames closed. And it gives more creative opportunity to the author, more room to deliberately play with the margins.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuga-san View Post
    Wait... where are these pages published? This is from chapter 990.

  8. #508

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Well, the awkward speech bubble placement certainly wouldn't happen if the authors knew the page wouldn't be cropped. In a world where the entire page is always fully printed, the speech bubbles would be adequately placed.
    I mean, yeah, if printing and publishing standards were different, authors would work differently within them. That goes without saying. But even in the current system it still seems to be an aesthetic choice the author has the freedom to make. Oda has basically every panel that aligns with an edge run off the page but other authors deliberately have panels that end both inside and outside the page to varying extents depending on the series. Some use small, fully contained panels for downtime and exposition and blow things up to run off the page when the action starts. Hell, One Piece itself had this in the early years, even if Oda's definitely outgrown it. Or you could look at Assassination Classroom for a great example of a relatively recent manga that existed almost entirely within the confines of the page.

    Boichi, for contrast, has stuff run off the edges all the time and into the spine as well for some godforsaken reason. Why he was allowed to do that when he wasn't making a double page spread I'll never understand.

  9. #509

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuga-san View Post
    Of course margins do exist..but, if you saw the raw art of each chapter, you'd notice that each frame is closed.
    Oda draws to the edge of the borders, he wants it to be full bleed. He INTENDS for some of that art to be lost.

    And even after all this time he still doesn't consider his two page spreads very well. Especially when he does that 2/3 thing, he often has important stuff falling into the spine crease. He's good about not putting words there, but art? Not so much.

    I've worked with a lot of artists in my 20 years in the comic industry, and every single artist that does full bleeds completely fails to grasp where the actual cutoff is and always does more art that goes off the page, rather than stopping at the actual printing edge. Every single time.
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  10. #510

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    And even after all this time he still doesn't consider his two page spreads very well. Especially when he does that 2/3 thing, he often has important stuff falling into the spine crease. He's good about not putting words there, but art? Not so much.
    I think he knows exactly where the spine crease is, but doesn't care to avoid drawing meaningful stuff in it.

    I say this because when he draws these 2/3 panels sometimes there are multiple small panels below the big one, and he makes a bigger space in-between them exactly where the cutoff is, but the big one suffers the blow in that very same vertical line.

    I don't like it very much, especially now that Oda does "panels at the centre of the page" like the one Franky hits Big Mom with the bike.

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