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Thread: American Politics: We're in for it now

  1. #4761

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    As with abortion, well it's a touchy topic on both sides. For me personally, I'm pro-life as in I won't do an abortion if I had my own kid, but pro-choice because I think women should do what they want with their bodies.
    Well, getting technical for a moment, you don't need to seperate into two in that instance.

    To put it another way, you're still pro-choice on all counts.
    You would just "choose" to keep it if you had a kid.

    It's a lot quicker/easier to just put it that way.

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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Oh, I see. but even still nothing wrong with letting the states handle it.






    Yeah, there's really no problem with leaving everything up to the governors. Sure.

  3. #4763

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Starla, the major issue I have with your viewpoint is that it tends to be extremely selfish. You don't care about political issues unless they impact you directly. Instead of telling me to check my bias, I think that maybe you should check your privilege.
    Right, so you use SJW terminology to invalid me and make me look bad. I don't think I'm selfish at all. Wanting people not to be homeless? Want poor areas not to be in poverty? Wanting people to have their gun rights? Want to have black schools funded so black people get better educated? Want police reform because I'm sick of corruption? How is that any selfish?

    Hell, I even sometimes do $100 tips just for fun and it gets me no reward but a smile on a person. Plus, I was abused as a child and bullied. I have no privilege, don't assume things about me because I disagree with you on some points. That's just resulting to name-calling with your logic. You don't know me, yet you assume. I said check your bias because well you only focus on left-leaning stuff and think Democrats are 100% right and not thinking if any of their logic can be wrong. Hell, I was taught by liberal English teachers to check my bias, it's how I learned of the site allsides.com where it helped me see both sides of the news.

    You are lucky enough to not have to resort to joining the military in order to get by or go to school, so you don't care that someone like you might be banned from joining.
    Well, even if I had no choice, I would not join the military because I refuse to kill other people. Well, I don't think people should be banned, but honestly it's not a big of a deal compared to other things for me. I'm not really lucky at all.

    You believe that women should have a right to decide how to manage their bodies and reproductive health, but you don't feel strongly about it because you personally wouldn't use that right.
    Um, okay. so, I wouldn't use it, so what? O.o I don't care what women do with their bodies, it's their choice. But if I get in an argument by chance with someone, I express this opinion of pro-choice.

    Do you really not see how selfish this seems?
    It really isn't. I'm just sharing my opinion about the subject is all. And just because I don't care about the military, *doesn't mean* trans people should be banned. It's just not an important issue to me compared to other things like affordable education, police reform, living wage, getting people off the streets, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDL View Post
    Well, getting technical for a moment, you don't need to seperate into two in that instance.

    To put it another way, you're still pro-choice on all counts.
    You would just "choose" to keep it if you had a kid.

    It's a lot quicker/easier to just put it that way.
    Oh, I get it now. Didn't think about that. Thanks for the clarification. It explains why I lost a friend because I didn't care what women did with their bodies, and she blocked me thinking I'm okay with "people being murdered."

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Yeah, there's really no problem with leaving everything up to the governors. Sure.
    Okay, let's not forget about California that had a Democrat governor and their rates were high, and same with Illinois and New York. Honestly, I don't think any governors done a super awesome job, Democrat or Republican, but Democrat governors did better than Republican ones.

    Though to be honest, the tactic of just shutting down people and making them stay home without pay, contact tracing, etc. is just wrong. Now so many businesses are lost and more people are homeless because of it. And even if you mandate masks, doesn't mean everyone will follow them, hence in my state, it's this way, and we have a mandate.

    Plus, you disqualifying all the states that actually did a better job regarding the virus. I think my Democrat governor did an average job at it, but at least a bit better than other states. Once cases started, he was right on it, instead of waiting like CA or NY. So, you look at the states that did a bad job, but did not look at the states that did a good job. That's double standards.

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  4. #4764
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Starla, my point is the same as yours; some governors have totally screwed up their states’ handling of the pandemic. If the leader of our nation had done his job and set a national example for all states to follow, then more states would have curves that look closer to New York’s, which has been excellent since the first wave ended around the close of May.

    Without proper guidance, some states have settled for half measures, and as a result our country is leading the developed world in deaths per capita! You think that there’s nothing wrong with that?

  5. #4765

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Starla, my point is the same as yours; some governors have totally screwed up their states’ handling of the pandemic. If the leader of our nation had done his job and set a national example for all states to follow, then more states would have curves that look closer to New York’s, which has been excellent since the first wave ended around the close of May.
    Right.

    Without proper guidance, some states have settled for half measures, and as a result our country is leading the developed world in deaths per capita! You think that there’s nothing wrong with that?
    Well, I think it is wrong of how it was handled in America. But it's what happens when dumb people get elected into office and politicians who don't want to spend money for stuff like contact tracing. Honestly, that is the solution to getting this pandemic under wraps. Basically, what was done in South Korea should be done here. But I do understand what you are saying, but honestly, who would have thought that governors would fuck up too? Hence why I said that there was nothing wrong with it. I suck at convening my viewpoints, so I apologize for being confusing.

    Plus, even if I look at both sides, I agree with 90% with Democrats on major issues. Sure I don't always praise them, but I think even them deserve to be criticized, that's all I'm doing. Is that so wrong?
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; October 18th, 2020 at 07:36 PM.

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  6. #4766
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Well, I think it is wrong of how it was handled in America. But it's what happens when dumb people get elected into office and politicians who don't want to spend money for stuff like contact tracing...


    I see. "It is what it is."

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon
    ...but honestly, who would have thought that governors would fuck up too?
    I'll tell you who: Jared Kushner and the rest of the White House. They thought that it was going to look like Democratic states alone were handling the pandemic worst, and so they decided to "leave it up to the states" to handle everything.

    It's delicious that this strategy ended up backfiring on them.

    But it's resulted in over 200,000 deaths in our country. Ultimately, it's extremely tragic, and it's inexcusable that they decided to play politics with people's lives. The very people that they are supposed to govern, defend, protect, and represent.

    Please, feel free to speak your mind and criticize whoever you want. I just hope that you realize that emotions and talk are contagious. When you speak as if both parties are equally at fault, even when you actually agree 90% with one of them, it doesn't make you appear even-handed. It doesn't make you appear thoughtful. It makes you seem disingenuous, and too willing to equate the faults of one side to the faults of the other, when they are clearly not equal by any definition of the word.

  7. #4767

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    I'll tell you who: Jared Kushner and the rest of the White House. They thought that it was going to look like Democratic states alone were handling the pandemic worst, and so they decided to "leave it up to the states" to handle everything.

    It's delicious that this strategy ended up backfiring on them.
    Well, I read the article you shared, and it didn't say any of that. It was said it "may" have reflected on their decision. I doubt they thought that everyone would fuck up. So, really not good to assume that.

    Please, feel free to speak your mind and criticize whoever you want. I just hope that you realize that emotions and talk are contagious. When you speak as if both parties are equally at fault, even when you actually agree 90% with one of them, it doesn't make you appear even-handed. It doesn't make you appear thoughtful. It makes you seem disingenuous, and too willing to equate the faults of one side to the faults of the other, when they are clearly not equal by any definition of the word.
    Well, that's your viewpoint. I think *both* Democrats and Republicans do a poor job, I honestly can't see it either way. Without looking at both sides, it makes you not feel like a hero, it makes you feel like you divide others because of different political beliefs and not understanding *where* those individuals are standing at, plus it makes you feel ignorant because you chose a side. I don't think any Democrats or Republicans are evil, I just think both, especially the ones in Congress are both doing a bad job and not working together/making compromises.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Hell, even if I disagree with you on some topics, I understand where you coming from in a way with what you believe in. And with that, I'm just gonna agree to disagree. I respect what you believe in even if I disagree, so I'm ending at that.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    [/COLOR]I see. "It is what it is."
    Yes, it is. Don't see what the problem with that. I can't change the past, but I can change the future.

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  8. #4768
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now


  9. #4769

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Again, you take my words out of context to frame me as some prick who likes Trump, when I dislike the man. -sigh- I still be nice to you, even if you mean to me and twist my words to your liking. Have a good day!

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  10. #4770
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I'm not trying to be mean, Starla. Just trying to point out who you sound like. Good night!

  11. #4771

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    I'm not trying to be mean, Starla. Just trying to point out who you sound like. Good night!
    Righttttt. Take my words out of context and try to make it seem like I talk like Trump when I'm not. That's called being a bully. I had enough of that in my life already. But think whatever you want, but I'm not resulting to insults.

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  12. #4772
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Sorry, I'm really not trying to be mean, honest. If I've twisted your words, then I apologize, that's not my intention. I also sincerely hope that I haven't insulted you.

    I'm simply trying to point out the fallacy in your arguments and what equating the parties makes you sound like. If you really pay attention, you'll find that the only people who tend to draw on this false equivalency bullshit are Republicans. "Very fine people on both sides", and all that.

  13. #4773

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Sorry, I'm really not trying to be mean, honest. If I've twisted your words, then I apologize, that's not my intention. I also sincerely hope that I haven't insulted you.
    You actually did insult me and honesty now I feel like a shitty person. (I was looked down upon for most of my life, you know.)

    I'm simply trying to point out the fallacy in your arguments and what equating the parties makes you sound like. If you really pay attention, you'll find that the only people who tend to draw on this false equivalency bullshit are Republicans. "Very fine people on both sides", and all that.
    I don't really see it as a fallacy, and plus I had political debates with very right winged folks, they didn't even want to agree to disagree, AKA not wanting to see both sides. They hated Democrats/liberals as much as you hate Republicans. I see hate on both sides of the debate. So, yeah, I do pay attention, as I had political debates with conservatives and liberals. I just disagree with your "assessment", that is all.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Regardless, I forgive you. I don't hate you either. Let's just agree to disagree and move on from this topic, please and thank you.

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  14. #4774
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I don’t hate Republicans, I just think that their political party is selfish, misguided, and manipulative.

    There’s nothing wrong with looking at both sides, Starla, in fact everyone should do that when considering an argument or debate. I do it.

    The problem arises when, after seeing both sides, you decide that neither is better than the other. That’s what I mean when I say “false equivalency”. When one side defends itself by pointing out “equivalent” problems with the other side. I think that if you actually pay attention, then you’ll find that the left is far less guilty of this behavior than the right is.

    You may claim to agree with Democrats for the most part, but when you parrot these Republican talking points, I hope you realize then who it is that you actually sound like.

  15. #4775

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    The problem arises when, after seeing both sides, you decide that neither is better than the other. That’s what I mean when I say “false equivalency”. When one side defends itself by pointing out “equivalent” problems with the other side. I think that if you actually pay attention, then you’ll find that the left is far less guilty of this behavior than the right is.
    And that is your opinion that I disagree with.

    You may claim to agree with Democrats for the most part, but when you parrot these Republican talking points, I hope you realize then who it is that you actually sound like.
    And again trying to take my words out of context and use it as an insult, especially since what *I say is different from what Trump says*. Twisting my words isn't very nice. Anyways, believe what you want about me, I disagree with your hot take, but regardless I don't want to talk about this anymore. We are just going back and forth. Let's just agree to disagree and move on. That's all I want right now. Please and thank you! :3

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  16. #4776
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I’m not insulting you, Starla. I’m just pointing out that you are using a Republican tactic excessively in your arguments. I’m not saying that you sound like Trump, I’m saying that you sound like Republicans in general, even if you don’t really agree with their perspective on most issues.

    If you want to stop discussing, then stop. Don’t get upset with me for replying and pointing out flaws in your arguments.

    In any case, I’ve enjoyed our conversation, and I do really hope you see that I haven’t been trying to insult or be mean to you.

  17. #4777

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I have definitely noticed a tendency by some to drive well-meaning but misinformed people to the right with arguments that lean too heavily on "you sound like them, therefore you're bad".

    I'm really not sure what can be done about it, though.

  18. #4778

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    When your head of state flees your country to avoid prosecution, something has gone seriously tits up.
    Maybe he will join Juan Carlos in the Emirates...

  19. #4779

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

    I have to say, I wouldn’t trust a site that puts the NYT Opinion section (David Brooks, Ross Douthat, Bret Stephens, formerly Bari Weiss, Senator Tom Cotton) on the hard left.

  20. #4780

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

    I have to say, I wouldn’t trust a site that puts the NYT Opinion section (David Brooks, Ross Douthat, Bret Stephens, formerly Bari Weiss, Senator Tom Cotton) on the hard left.
    Well, you see, it's the overall number of articles that are super far left, so a few articles that lean right wouldn't matter as it is the minority, since it doesn't make up for the majority that are super left opinionated articles. Same vice versa where more right wing sites have the one or two left writers, doesn't means it's everyone. Also, the NYT removed right wing articles Like Tom Cotton's instead of actually keeping them, which goes along with them being far left. I think that's how they made their decision. It's just my analysis, though I do agree with them with the fact that many articles that are the New York Times is very liberal base, especially the opinion ones.

    Edit:
    Actually, they gave their reasoning:
    This page refers to The New York Times opinion page, including op-ed writers and the Editorial Board. The Editorial Board’s bias is weighted, and affects this bias rating by roughly 60%. Not all columnists for the New York Times display a left-wing bias; we rate many individual writers separately (see end of this page). While there are some right-leaning opinion writers at the Times, overall the opinion page and Editorial Board has a strong Left bias. Our media bias rating takes into account both the overall bias of the source’s editorial board and the paper’s individual opinion page writers.
    Which goes with what I said earlier. Here's the source: https://www.allsides.com/news-source...ion-media-bias
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; October 19th, 2020 at 12:11 PM.

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