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Thread: American Politics: We're in for it now

  1. #4741
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I'd rather see him go to jail.

  2. #4742

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I think everyone not a member of his cult, enablers, and Tulsi Gabbard would rather see him go to jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  3. #4743

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    He's never going to jail. He's too old, too unhealthy, and too important and his lawyers will hold it up in the trial of the century until he dies of old age. So any fantasies of him in an orange jumpsuit doing a perp walk you can forget about.

    His children however... and his assets... those can go to jail and be stripped away. Very easily.

    His fleeing the country is 100% what he plans to do all the same.
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  4. #4744
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    If a president flees the country to seek asylum in an enemy nation to avoid a criminal trial, can we admit the u.s is a failed state?
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  5. #4745

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    He's never going to jail. He's too old,
    Didn't the Golden State Killer whose roughly the same age get sent to prison....granted he doesn't have Trump's alleged wealth but they locked him up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    too unhealthy,
    Mentally maybe.....not of the mind that would get him off.



    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    and too important
    As a potential witness?

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    If a president flees the country to seek asylum in an enemy nation to avoid a criminal trial, can we admit the u.s is a failed state?
    I mean if Roman Polanski (and many others) can flee the country or escape prosecution outright why should Trump be threshold by which we judge the U.S. as a failed state?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  6. #4746
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Roman polanski isn't the president. When your head of state flees your country to avoid prosecution, something has gone seriously tits up.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  7. #4747

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Point was when you've let many people be they ordinary or famous for the time people escape justice from crimes committed in your borders, in addition to some other terrible shit happen for decades upon decades letting a failed politician escape prosecution doesn't seem all that special.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  8. #4748

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    As a potential witness?
    As in, you can't say "The President of the United States is now a convicted criminal." Regardless of how any treasonous crimes he's made. It makes the case TOO high profile and will have an army of lawyers on it for years, no matter how much evidence there is and how open and shut it is. Even if initial trial goes quickly, there's still endless appeals.

    Plus, the scope of what Trump did, the sheer amount of treason and murder, is too huge. It involves dozens of countries, a whole bunch of classified stuff, and even though he absolutely deserves to be reamed for say, his negligence and failure to deal with Covid, (because China paid him to do so) you can't have future presidents being put on trial after they leave office for mistakes made.

    Obviously, we're all aware there is a difference between mistakes a president makes, and intentional criminal activity. But even though we *know* he was bought and made most of his decisions based on personal profit, you can't attack every single thing he did for four years seperately, even if basically everything he did was in fact a crime and a conspiracy.

    Like, you put him through trial for collusion and treason with Russia. That goes through. Then you have to do it again with China. And then with the Saudis. And then "did he intentionally fuck up Covid". And then for conspiracy to defraud elections. Was he paid to abandon our allies. And so on and so on.

    Plus you can always run with the "he's senile and has dementia" defense and probably prove it. Or "his physical health is so poor he'd die inside jail within a month, not to mention he's a prime target for shanking." It might not clear him from being guilty, but it'll certainly keep him out of a cell.


    If Nixon had gone to trail, it would have been for Watergate and the coverup therof. If Trump goes to trial, there are literally hundreds of things to deal with. The full scope of everything he did will probably take decades to unpack.

    If he was only say, a governor, it'd be one thing. But the president? Nope.

    The OJ Simpson trial took a year and a half and that was just an open and shut murder trial... and he was declared innocent!


    Now all that said. Everyone *connected* to Trump, they can get trials and jail time in under a year, like many of his associates already do. That stuff you can just use some email trails and financial statements and its pretty open and closed and easily proven. His kids are definitely going to be prime targets.

    Extra bonus, once Trump is gone and no longer able to pardon, his already jailed associates might finally decide its time to cooperate.

    Didn't the Golden State Killer whose roughly the same age get sent to prison....granted he doesn't have Trump's alleged wealth but they locked him up.
    Immediate physical threat to others is different than abuse of power politician... even if Trump has murdered infinitely more people.
    Last edited by Robby; October 18th, 2020 at 03:22 AM.
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  9. #4749
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I agree that a trial over treason would be hard fought and extremely messy, and might never be truly provable.

    But there’s another case that’s easily provable - that he used the office of the presidency to enrich himself with illegal insider trading, and funneling millions, if not billions of taxpayer dollars into his family businesses. For that, we will probably have the trial of the century, and if he doesn’t get convicted, fined for millions, and put in prison, it’ll be a travesty surpassed only by the 2016 election itself.

  10. #4750

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    The benefit of a dragged out trial for many years is keeping Trump's crimes in the minds of the electorate, so that wishy-washy independents don't immediately vote GOP again in the next midterm and so that Democrats don't pivot to "actually, maybe Trump was good and we didn't appreciate him enough, so now we're stuck with President Tom Cotton."

  11. #4751

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    As in, you can't say "The President of the United States is now a convicted criminal." Regardless of how any treasonous crimes he's made. It makes the case TOO high profile and will have an army of lawyers on it for years, no matter how much evidence there is and how open and shut it is. Even if initial trial goes quickly, there's still endless appeals.
    In order for a potential case to drag on for years he'd obviously would have to not be up to his neck in debt and in addition would have to have lawyers who're willing to both endanger their credibility (which is a given with defense attorneys) and of course put up with his bullshit of sabotaging himself,their case, & undermining them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Plus, the scope of what Trump did, the sheer amount of treason and murder, is too huge. It involves dozens of countries, a whole bunch of classified stuff, and even though he absolutely deserves to be reamed for say, his negligence and failure to deal with Covid, (because China paid him to do so) you can't have future presidents being put on trial after they leave office for mistakes made.
    I mean you could if their successors showed backbone instead of pulling a Gerald Ford or just ignoring it altogether. It would also at the least be pretty easy to prove that many of his decisions were not in fact mistakes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The OJ Simpson trial took a year and a half and that was just an open and shut murder trial... and he was declared innocent!
    Case was a clusterfuck that had a number of mitigating factors. But yeah.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Immediate physical threat to others is different than abuse of power politician... even if Trump has murdered infinitely more people.
    Isn't Trump an immediate physical threat to people? By proxy of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  12. #4752

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Gosh, I love SNL! I didn't really watch the town halls (Would have to watch both Biden and Trump.... to get both sides, should have just been a regular debate, but don't have time for that), but the sketch was hilarious! Especially the part with the black lady nodding and doing stuff in the background while Trump was talking. Also, Biden should really start wearing sunglasses like in SNL, would be an awesome look for him xD

    Here's the video:

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  13. #4753

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    I agree that a trial over treason would be hard fought and extremely messy, and might never be truly provable.

    But there’s another case that’s easily provable - that he used the office of the presidency to enrich himself with illegal insider trading, and funneling millions, if not billions of taxpayer dollars into his family businesses. For that, we will probably have the trial of the century, and if he doesn’t get convicted, fined for millions, and put in prison, it’ll be a travesty surpassed only by the 2016 election itself.
    What if the treason charges against him were centered around the fact that he knowingly helped Coronavirus kill hundreds of thousands of people and maim tens of millions?

  14. #4754

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    If a president flees the country to seek asylum in an enemy nation to avoid a criminal trial, can we admit the u.s is a failed state?
    Honestly, maybe. I just think it be funny and chaotic if he ran from his crimes to Russia. I mean eventually he has to go back to America and face the consequences of his actions. Regardless, this be a first for any president of the United States to run away from the country or go to jail for his crimes. And no one to pardon him like Nixon had Ford.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    What if the treason charges against him were centered around the fact that he knowingly helped Coronavirus kill hundreds of thousands of people and maim tens of millions?
    I don't think he should go to jail for the Coronavirus. He didn't make the virus or spread it; he just did a horrible job with trying to contain it, but doesn't meant he "helped the virus kill people", that's just silly. If you want to go with that logic, might as well do that for other presidents with their own pandemics like Obama with Swineflu.

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  15. #4755
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino
    The benefit of a dragged out trial for many years is keeping Trump's crimes in the minds of the electorate, so that wishy-washy independents don't immediately vote GOP again in the next midterm and so that Democrats don't pivot to "actually, maybe Trump was good and we didn't appreciate him enough, so now we're stuck with President Tom Cotton."
    The Democrats also need to keep promises and maintain a sense of transparency with the constituency too. Otherwise, you're going to have the GOP and the Republicans pull the classic "That was then, this is now" strategy in '24 or '28, provided that people still want representative leadership by then.

  16. #4756
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    What if the treason charges against him were centered around the fact that he knowingly helped Coronavirus kill hundreds of thousands of people and maim tens of millions?
    I certainly believe he is guilty of this, just as you do.

    But in a court of law, based on the evidence we currently have, it'll be really hard to prove that he had malicious intent instead of just being negligent. I think it's much easier to see and prove that he knowingly and willingly has been stealing money and participating in insider trading while exercising control over the stock markets.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Honestly, maybe. I just think it be funny and chaotic if he ran from his crimes to Russia. I mean eventually he has to go back to America and face the consequences of his actions. Regardless, this be a first for any president of the United States to run away from the country or go to jail for his crimes. And no one to pardon him like Nixon had Ford.
    If Trump was able to find sanctuary somewhere and avoid prosecution, that'd be absolutely terrible, and not even close to what I'd call funny.

    What exactly makes you think that he'd have to come back to America at some point?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    I don't think he should go to jail for the Coronavirus. He didn't make the virus or spread it; he just did a horrible job with trying to contain it, but doesn't meant he "helped the virus kill people", that's just silly. If you want to go with that logic, might as well do that for other presidents with their own pandemics like Obama with Swineflu.
    And here you go again with that dangerous "both sides" stuff. Equating how our country handled H1N1 and how it's currently handling COVID-19 is absolutely ridiculous.

    Did you know that Kushner was one of the people who suggested to Trump that he avoid making national mandates regarding mask use and lock downs? That he recommended they leave policies up to state governors because there was reason to believe that blue states were going to get hit hardest by the illness and it would give them another reason to say that the Democrats are terrible?

  17. #4757

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    If Trump was able to find sanctuary somewhere and avoid prosecution, that'd be absolutely terrible, and not even close to what I'd call funny.

    What exactly makes you think that he'd have to come back to America at some point?
    Well, I just think it is because Trump has this huge ego and then he becomes a coward and runs away when he loses. Plus, the idea of a U.S. president running away to a different country is quite funny to me. And I think he come back to America because he has all his assets here. It's just a difference of opinion here, and I'm just agreeing to disagreeing about this part. I just have a dark sense of humour I guess XD

    And here you go again with that dangerous "both sides" stuff. Equating how our country handled H1N1 and how it's currently handling COVID-19 is absolutely ridiculous.
    Both sides isn't dangerous, that's just your left bias which I think you should check. It's why I always check my bias and look from all sides of the argument. I think you should do, I learned a few years ago Democrats weren't that great as I thought they were. They get super sensitive about issues, well way more than Republicans for example. I may be left-leaning, but I don't agree with everything Democrats say or do, and actually think Republicans sometimes have good points because I of course put myself in the other side's shoes. Having a us vs. them mentality is just contributing to the problem where everyone in America is divided.

    You do know that your bill video made me realize both Democrats and Republicans suck from a while ago, as they both do their own thing and not work together, etc. and not do the process that was said in the video. And I just used as an example of why Trump should not be arrested for Covid, just like previous presidents that may or may not have done a good job handling it. Why should he just because he fucked up? He didn't cause those deaths, he's not the fucking virus. I honestly think that's going too far to blame him just because you hate the man. It's the same reason why Obama should not be arrested for how he handled the swineflu either. Humans are not viruses, and putting the blame on a person for something like that is honestly ridiculous.

    Did you know that Kushner was one of the people who suggested to Trump that he avoid making national mandates regarding mask use and lock downs?
    Okay, so? Republicans believe in the freedom of choice,so it was in their belief system to do so. I at one point didn't like wearing masks, but now I wear one to protect myself so I don't get Covid. If Trump done a mandate, his followers would be pissed about it, hence why he didn't do one. But is that cause for him to be arrested in making a bad decision? No.

    That he recommended they leave policies up to state governors because there was reason to believe that blue states were going to get hit hardest by the illness and it would give them another reason to say that the Democrats are terrible?
    Nothing wrong with leaving policies to state governors. And where's your source from the second portion? And also Trump never said Democrats where terrible even when California was hit bad, so not sure what you talking about.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    But in a court of law, based on the evidence we currently have, it'll be really hard to prove that he had malicious intent instead of just being negligent.
    Also, this. I think he was just being negligent and making dumb decisions. Trump is extremely dumb, so it makes sense why he would make horrible decisions and thinking if it was good or not. This is basically is another reason why I don't think he's guilty of it. It's better off to what you said:
    I think it's much easier to see and prove that he knowingly and willingly has been stealing money and participating in insider trading while exercising control over the stock markets.

    I think this a way better way of trying to get him arrested since he did some shady things. Though I don't know much about the stuff you said, can you provide me a source for it so I can understand better please? I'm not really in the loop with politics. Honestly, don't really know 97% of the things Obama did, and 95% of what Trump did. Hell, don't know much about the other presidents, besides George W. Bush and the Iraq War and that's about it.
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; October 18th, 2020 at 05:39 PM.

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  18. #4758
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    You do know that your bill video made me realize both Democrats and Republicans suck from a while ago, as they both do their own thing and not work together, etc. and not do the process that was said in the video.
    It's not my video, it's from Schoolhouse Rock. I grew up watching this stuff on PBS and in elementary school. I'm really surprised that the first time you'd seen that video was from when I posted it. Where did you grow up and go to school?

    And, the takeaway you should have had from that video is to realize that the Senate is refusing to do their job. The House created and passed a coronavirus relief bill months ago, and instead of doing what it was supposed to, the Senate decided to ignore the bill. They were supposed to review the bill, modify it to their liking, and then pass it again so that it could go back to the House for continued review and/or ratification.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon
    Okay, so? Republicans believe in the freedom of choice,so it was in their belief system to do so. I at one point didn't like wearing masks, but now I wear one to protect myself so I don't get Covid. If Trump done a mandate, his followers would be pissed about it, hence why he didn't do one. But is that cause for him to be arrested in making a bad decision? No.

    Nothing wrong with leaving policies to state governors. And where's your source from the second portion? And also Trump never said Democrats where terrible even when California was hit bad, so not sure what you talking about.
    Here is my source, which again I'm surprised you haven't seen yourself since you claim to try to keep up with the news.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/kush...-report-2020-7

    Kushner had a team that was putting together a national COVID-19 testing and mitigation strategy, but they ended up scrapping the plan because they believed that doing nothing would be a great way to pin the blame on Democratic state governors, since they believed that high population density areas would suffer from the pandemic most.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalillymoon
    Republicans believe in the freedom of choice

    And this is especially rich. Do Republicans believe that women should have the freedom to choose how to manage their reproductive health? Do they believe that trans people should be free to choose to join the military? Do they believe that gays should be able to choose to get married?

  19. #4759

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    It's not my video, it's from Schoolhouse Rock. I grew up watching this stuff on PBS and in elementary school. I'm really surprised that the first time you'd seen that video was from when I posted it. Where did you grow up and go to school?
    I know it wasn't; I was saying your in the sense that you posted it lol

    I watched it as a kid too, but forget about it.

    And, the takeaway you should have had from that video is to realize that the Senate is refusing to do their job. The House created and passed a coronavirus relief bill months ago, and instead of doing what it was supposed to, the Senate decided to ignore the bill. They were supposed to review the bill, modify it to their liking, and then pass it again so that it could go back to the House for continued review and/or ratification.
    Well, yeah, but if I recall Democrats did the same thing when they had the Senate and Republicans the House. Plus, you said both sides should not try to make bills of their own, but they in essence doing so, so hence why I think both sides suck, though it annoys me that Mitch just won't even review the bills, but then vice versa, Pelosi won't review the Republican's bill. So, even if it is not like how it supposed to be, both sides still won't work together but do their own thing.

    Here is my source, which again I'm surprised you haven't seen yourself since you claim to try to keep up with the news.
    If it's not on allsides, I don't really know. I did say I check the news here and allsides, but I mostly check out what everyone is talking about in this thread is what I meant. Plus, it only has been recently where I have been doing this.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/kush...-report-2020-7

    Kushner had a team that was putting together a national COVID-19 testing and mitigation strategy, but they ended up scrapping the plan because they believed that doing nothing would be a great way to pin the blame on Democratic state governors, since they believed that high population density areas would suffer from the pandemic most.
    Oh, I see. but even still nothing wrong with letting the states handle it.

    And this is especially rich. Do Republicans believe that women should have the freedom to choose how to manage their reproductive health? Do they believe that trans people should be free to choose to join the military? Do they believe that gays should be able to choose to get married?
    First of, you misunderstood me, I was talking about in that specific scenario with regards to masks and being able to do what you want in the scope of the law. Sorry for the confusion, didn't think I had to clarify.

    As with abortion, well it's a touchy topic on both sides. For me personally, I'm pro-life as in I won't do an abortion if I had my own kid, but pro-choice because I think women should do what they want with their bodies. Though again, there is also Democrats that are against abortion, I believe it was Jimmy Carter who is, he's not Republican.

    As regards to gay marriage, Bill Clinton pass the bill against gay marriage and have it defined as man and woman, not Republicans. Actually both parties agreed on it, till the Obama-era. Though honestly, I don't care if I can't serve in the military personally. (I'm transgender)

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  20. #4760
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Starla, the major issue I have with your viewpoint is that it tends to be extremely selfish. You don't care about political issues unless they impact you directly. Instead of telling me to check my bias, I think that maybe you should check your privilege.

    You are lucky enough to not have to resort to joining the military in order to get by or go to school, so you don't care that someone like you might be banned from joining.

    You believe that women should have a right to decide how to manage their bodies and reproductive health, but you don't feel strongly about it because you personally wouldn't use that right.

    Do you really not see how selfish this seems?

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