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Thread: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

  1. #61

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    I also had a hard time understanding what exactly did Oda mean with Ashura's stabbing. I like the idea that ir was the traitor, but are we sure there is one? Kaidou talked of a spy, and it could be the old Kurozomi lady, like someone said.

    If there is one, I believe the traitor would be a Squardo situation. Convinced to betray Oden through lies and will turn around when Shinobu tells everyone of what he did. Like, what if Orochi told O-Kiki that Oden left Inu to rot as a prisioner at sea. When Inu comes in the present Kiku repents and rejoins the scabbards


    Also, didn't understand the panel where snow starts to fall in the Flower capital. Can someone help me with that? It was just to show the passage of time?
    Don't see the point in having the old lady be the spy, given that she's already dead. That'd somehow be more underwhelming than saying Denjiro is the traitor. Anyhow, we've already confirmed there is one in the present day.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Does the present traitor have to be the same as the traitor back then?

  3. #63

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    It's already hard enough to explain everything with just one traitor in the present.

  4. #64
    Undercover Shipwright Zeorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    He's making Shinobu look worse and worse in my opinion. She saw and heard? everything that went down between Oden, Orochi, and the Kurozumis but didn't go to Oden or reveal her intention to change sides until the fated battle 5 years later? She could have been a double agent working for Orochi but then reporting to Oden but I guess that would have ruined Oda's story about Oden waiting around 5 years and not telling anyone anything like an idiot. I usually don't give Oda a hard time about stuff but unless he turns things around she seems pointless. There is no point in her being an ally that saw what happened and did nothing in 5 years. There is no point in her being the traitor as they only ever thought of her as an ally during the battle.

    The only thing that makes sense for her character at this point is that because Oden said she wasn't an ally and she was released is for her to use her ninja abilities combined with the fact she still works for the enemy to free everyone. If she doesn't she is completely pointless.
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Kaido didn't mention clearly that there's a spy in the castle, that makes me think that the man who fought before against luffy and otama and who has a capacity of hearing from long distance could hear what is going on everywhere like enel's ability.
    But in the present the existence of a traitor is an evidence for a lot of reasons, like knowing the identity of raizo and reaching him each time in zou, and the sheet that holds orochi with informations about all the details of his enemies, this paper that i think that is from O-Kiki book, in the anime is pretty clear that she is writing down it and has the same size.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by blue-san View Post
    Actually...

    Hour of Legends was not this... It is quite clear the citizens of Wano are giving two rats about this entire thing, or rather are cold about it... So The Hour of Legends definitely needs to be something that is coming.

    You have to realize that 10 of the samurai were sentenced to die and bar one more or less it is clear that the others have not...

    So stay tunned


    Also traitor? Is it Toki...? Or someone else. She is awfully calm in all the pannels
    I'll just quote myself by the look of things I am 95% positive it should be Kanuro the guy is playing the clumsy artist and has tons of evidence pointing towards him
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  7. #67
    zoros armourbearer dwo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    I don't think it is the traitor. Oden was defeated, the other retainers were being subdued, why would the traitor do such a risky move as attacking Ashura in the open just to the next minute go back and pretend to be on their side again?
    I thought that there must be a reason to show us that stabbing and the silhouette. For sure it has some meaning. The one who stabbed knew that Oda will loose at this point and waited for the right moment.
    Oda doesnt draw such things just for fun.


  8. #68

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    I imagine one of the 9 scabbards would have seen who the traitor is if he was the one that hit shuten maru, since it looks like scabbards fought close to eachother. The traitor would be known since then.
    Last edited by uniaka ikuzakas; February 3rd, 2020 at 09:46 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by dwo View Post
    I thought that there must be a reason to show us that stabbing and the silhouette. For sure it has some meaning. The one who stabbed knew that Oda will loose at this point and waited for the right moment.
    Oda doesnt draw such things just for fun.
    The problem is this logic suggests the traitor acted in the open because there was no point in pretending anymore after Oden was defeated by Kaido, but then the following scene shows all the retainers were detained and are waiting for execution meaning the traitor went back to pretending again, it doesn't match.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Ok, so I read a translation that was partly in French which I don't speak any of, but it sounded like Oden did what he did only because he didn't want to cause a war to break out? As if the people who adored and loved him and would lay down their lives for him would not proudly take up arms to kick the interlopers out of their homeland at his command, and doing any less than that would only forestall the inevitable? Was he embarrassing himself and ruining his reputation so that when the time came to stand up to Kaido, no one but his most loyal retainers would have to get involved and shed their blood? Asinine, they deserved to fail if that was how they were planning it. The guy has zero leadership skills if that's so. He didn't attempt to get the rest of the Minks or any of the pirates he was friends with to help a brother out in their time of need? Or at least spend every second of every day training him and his retainers' asses off to make sure that when the time came to strike, they would wipe the floor with Kaido's army? I just don't get it.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    After all the Oden hype, I expected some sort of tactic that would give young Kaido the upper hand. I expected it to involve Orochi instead of some mook and the old hag.

    I love the detail of Oden's adrenaline keeping him conscious until he sees that Momo isn't actually there and is safe. Then he finally passes out.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Plus this leaves unclear at what point did Orochi actually get his Devil Fruit and just how strong he is/was before and after both the 20 years and acquiring the DF power.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Plus this leaves unclear at what point did Orochi actually get his Devil Fruit and just how strong he is/was before and after both the 20 years and acquiring the DF power.
    The old lady gave it to him when they first met, no?

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Don't remember. But it's still not clear what the difference it makes both before and after the 20 years. Also it seems like Orochi must have forgotten he no longer has his barrier slave with him if he's talking smack about how he doesn't bow to Kaido.

  15. #75
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by dwo View Post
    I thought that there must be a reason to show us that stabbing and the silhouette. For sure it has some meaning. The one who stabbed knew that Oda will loose at this point and waited for the right moment.
    Oda doesnt draw such things just for fun.
    Oda sometimes makes mistakes too. From the look of it, the katana hilt doesn't look that different from King's. But then again his katana has the most bland hilt design.
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Don't remember. But it's still not clear what the difference it makes both before and after the 20 years. Also it seems like Orochi must have forgotten he no longer has his barrier slave with him if he's talking smack about how he doesn't bow to Kaido.
    When did Orochi say that he doesn't bow to Kaido? He's 100% Kaido's bitch, the only question is why he is allowed to have so much wiggle room.


  17. #77

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    I think Oda's intent is to make the reader have the same reaction as the Wano citizens, I mean think about it

    Both Wano and the reader agree Oden was a fool to dance for 5 years instead of attacking that day.

    Both Wano and the reader agree this battle was underwhelming and what was the point of delaying it by 5 year.

    And yeah now I think about it, this battle can't be 'the hour of legends' given the cold reactions to it.

    Lets see if he can flip this on its head.

  18. #78
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengokusgoat View Post
    Isn't that supposed to be King?
    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    There's a stabbing, then next panel we see King's silhouette and blood dripping from his sword. Not a big mystery that one.
    Com'on guys, the hand holding the katana is too small in comparission to King's hands, and according to his shadow of 20 years ago, he was already a big dude.

    so..(Tinfoil hat on), that's what Oda wants you to believe!!

    Seriously tho, seems pretty valid to me, that the traitor would be the one stabbing Ashura, he's like the biggest threat among the Samurais just next to Oden.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Didn't he rejected her since battle started, when she saved him, like don't join this battle. As her reason to betray, him and shinobu seem to go way back, ever since she was a kid, who knows what he did to her. Like she was kinemon's protegee yet didn't tell him anything for 5 years about the deal oden made with orochi, not even send him a note or anything.
    That literally never happened.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    I don't think it is the traitor. Oden was defeated, the other retainers were being subdued, why would the traitor do such a risky move as attacking Ashura in the open just to the next minute go back and pretend to be on their side again?
    Cause Ashura would be the hardest to take down?
    Not trying to go into a power-level scam, but Samurai Belly slashed Jack in the present day, I'd suppose 20 years ago it would be hard to bring him down even for King and Queen

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Does the present traitor have to be the same as the traitor back then?
    Yeah, it would make things dramatically better.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengokusgoat View Post
    It's already hard enough to explain everything with just one traitor in the present.
    eeh no. if its Kanjuro, its perfectly fitting.
    .he wasn't exactly a prisioner when he was found.
    -He knew where Raizo was.
    -He's been the least active in Wano(that we've seen of) and had plenty of time to give the secret port message to the enemy, and send a letter to Orochi.

    in the past, he wasn't probably too convinced of the idea of opening Wano and switched his loyalty for that reason, and he was pretty pissed at Oden for leaving Wano so selfishly

    Also, I just noticed that he didn't get a local Dressrosa reward when even Kin'emon did.

    he's busted.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    Cause Ashura would be the hardest to take down?
    Not trying to go into a power-level scam, but Samurai Belly slashed Jack in the present day, I'd suppose 20 years ago it would be hard to bring him down even for King and Queen
    Too weak of a reason for such a risky act. Also it's been stated (not just hinted) the retainers who didn't leaped in time became much stronger in the last 20 years. Ashura, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi are considerably stronger than Kin'emon and his group because of that, not because they were super stronger since the beginning.

  20. #80
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 970: Oden Vs Kaido

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeorn View Post
    He's making Shinobu look worse and worse in my opinion. She saw and heard? everything that went down between Oden, Orochi, and the Kurozumis but didn't go to Oden or reveal her intention to change sides until the fated battle 5 years later? She could have been a double agent working for Orochi but then reporting to Oden but I guess that would have ruined Oda's story about Oden waiting around 5 years and not telling anyone anything like an idiot. I usually don't give Oda a hard time about stuff but unless he turns things around she seems pointless. There is no point in her being an ally that saw what happened and did nothing in 5 years. There is no point in her being the traitor as they only ever thought of her as an ally during the battle.

    The only thing that makes sense for her character at this point is that because Oden said she wasn't an ally and she was released is for her to use her ninja abilities combined with the fact she still works for the enemy to free everyone. If she doesn't she is completely pointless.
    it explains why was she the only one who left the Oniwabanshu among a bunch of them. she said so herself, Fukuro fell on Orochi's service and prolly didnt listen to what Shinobu saw. thus, leaving them to fight for Oden.

    Also with a Scabbard being a snitch, someone has to fill up that hole for them to remain being 'the 9 shadows' Toki talked about, and there's Shinobu, maybe Izo and even probably Kyoshiro, but seems clear at this point, that it'll be 9 even without the traitor.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    Too weak of a reason for such a risky act. Also it's been stated (not just hinted) the retainers who didn't leaped in time became much stronger in the last 20 years. Ashura, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi are considerably stronger than Kin'emon and his group because of that, not because they were super stronger since the beginning.
    Ashura ruled a lawless land of badass samurais, he was strong even back then.
    Plus it also would be risky to let him slash around, King and Queen were shown overpowering some Scabbards but not Ashura, Kaido had been severly wounded by Oden, that back stab prolly marked the definitive victory of Kaido in the eyes of the traitor.

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