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Thread: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

  1. #641
    *Angry Catra noises* Shuhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    I'm not being defensive. I literally said that I don't care what you think.
    You are toeing a fine line.

    Keep the bater civil please

  2. #642
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuhan View Post
    You are toeing a fine line.

    Keep the bater civil please
    Will do.

    I suppose that maybe I am a little annoyed myself after being told for most of yesterday that I have only been damaging to the town.

    Especially when I'm pretty sure that I was the first one to notice and point out the most reasonable cause for Kitsune lying about being shot.

    That he was one of three mafia members, and that the town would either mislynch someone on day 3 or that the mafia would guarantee a kill on night 3.

    I'll reiterate that I posed this theory after Foolio had asked for someone to explain how the town could have been in MiLo or Lylo. He refused to acknowledge it then, and refused to acknowledge it again when I asked him about it later in the day.

  3. #643

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    I already apologized in my opening post of the day but consider this an apology to you specifically, Kirby. It's probably an intimidating experience for someone new as well.

    How I said it aside, what I was saying comes from a place of experience, from small vanilla open setups to crazy giant games with all kinds of wacky roles. Three mafia in a 10-person game is just objectively unbalanced to a high degree. And, in a general sense, back in the day with the hardcore mafia crowd, you could full well get lynched on the spot for being too speculative.

    So I've said all this before but I'll reiterate. It would take some serious town-favoring powers to even out 3 mafia. We have the delayed kills which is super interesting, but not exactly a groundbreaking weapon for the town. Especially if, as you say, the mafia can start faking it later on. In that sense it's a disadvantage because you don't get the proper closure on flips. Now the lack of a kill N2 makes me think there IS a way to stop kills, but it's just too little too late for a 3-mafia setup. Guns being randomly handed out adds an element of chaos that could serve to aid the mafia just as much as the town, so to me that makes it even worse. And, as I keep saying, it is a huge risk to make these plays you're describing without knowing if a night kill will truly go through (assuming there was a N2 block) and without knowing if No Swords will get replaced.

  4. #644

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    I should also mention, as I theorized yesterday concerning the gun -- Huschel could have shot Kitsune on the spot if he didn't get lynched and didn't bleed out. Bye bye to that stall tactic.

  5. #645
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    But if Kitsune, like the rest of us, has a vest (and we have no reason to suspect that the mafia doesn't), then the shot would have only made him start to bleed out. He'd still be here today, free to interact and influence the lynches. To me, it seems like he would be counted as part of a mafia majority (if it were achieved) for the day after he got shot, right?

  6. #646

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    I guess you probably count as part of the majority if you're still technically alive but bleeding out. And I suppose we do have to assume the mafia have vests and would bleed out the same as townies instead of dying immediately, though we don't know. That's also why I was questioning at what point exactly the game would end, given the presence of extra guns. That's a valid point. I guess him still being around the next day would be a nuisance as well lol. But I would hope the town has enough convinction not to let him influence votes.

  7. #647
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Everyone: Some questions for ya.
    1. Assuming Kitsune did not lie about being shot on night 2, how did he get shot? Why might a mafia member have gotten shot?
    2. Assuming Kitsune did lie about being shot on night 2, why would a mafia member have sacrificed himself in such a way? Do you think that my explanation (that there were three mafia members and they knew we were at MiLo/LyLo on day 3) makes sense?
    3. Could the mafia have more than one gun? If so, did they start with more than one, or did they acquire another one at a later time?
    4. If multiple guns were to be used on the same target on the same night, would the victim bleed to death as we have seen so far?
    5. Do you think that Huschel should use his gun tonight? If so, then who should he use it on?

  8. #648
    Okashira kmohyudin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Vote Lynch: Huschel

    I read your posts and I don't see anything resembling this
    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    I think I have now figured out why I was okay ignoring kmohyudin so much. It's because we seem to have very similar opinions and a similar thought process. Which still makes me think that he's Town because he's acting like I would/am.
    I think you have been subtly taking all possible options, to give yourself wiggle room in case you need it. Making a claim, and then saying on the other hand the opposite is true as well. The final nail is that I absolutely do not buy your reasons, if they can be called reasons, to shoot Sky.

    @ Everyone: Sorry, been a lot busy lately, will have more time in about 12 or so hours. In the meantime, I will be more reactive in my posts, and hope that you will forgive me.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Everyone: Some questions for ya.
    1. Assuming Kitsune did not lie about being shot on night 2, how did he get shot? Why might a mafia member have gotten shot?
    2. Assuming Kitsune did lie about being shot on night 2, why would a mafia member have sacrificed himself in such a way? Do you think that my explanation (that there were three mafia members and they knew we were at MiLo/LyLo on day 3) makes sense?
    3. Could the mafia have more than one gun? If so, did they start with more than one, or did they acquire another one at a later time?
    4. If multiple guns were to be used on the same target on the same night, would the victim bleed to death as we have seen so far?
    5. Do you think that Huschel should use his gun tonight? If so, then who should he use it on?
    1. He did lie. I honestly cannot see any other way this could be true, barring something very far-fetched like a townie who shot him but didn't claim, or even more ridiculously, reflector vests.
    2. This got me confused as well, I was honestly sold on the idea of a even day jester, but that's obviously not true. I too suggested that we might be at MYLO in post #512, so that I my working assumption ATM.
    3. I think that everything until now suggests that every other day, two guns are being distributed. One for Mafia, and one randomly (could also go to Mafia, I think??).
    4. No idea. Very speculative.
    5. Can he use it again? I am working under the assumption that guns are single use (because Mafia shot no one on night 2). Either way, if I have my way, he will not be alive by the night to shoot it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by xterm
    The problem with [the world] is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
    Thanks Sky for the Avatar

  9. #649

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    I'm beginning to have another thought, though I'm not convinced of it yet.

    If there are two remaining mafia members, they might have made a plan for today: One of them claims to have been shot (though they weren't), and the other says that they shot them (though they didn't). Instead, they shoot another townie in the night, and also hope that whoever gets the night 3 gun uses it.

    The person who claims to have been shot would probably need to be the one who the town was most likely to lynch today, thus the town would need to reevaluate whether they want to lynch them or just let them bleed out (though they won't). The other person corroborates the shooting by saying that they received a gun in the night and did the shooting (it would make sense, because the one who got shot was the "most suspicious" of the two).

    Then, when one or two other people claim that they were also shot in the night, they will look more suspicious to the town. This would further increase the chances of them being able to get the town to mislynch during the day.

    All of the above could reduce the number of players to only four by day 5, and with two remaining mafia, the mafia would win.

    This line of thinking makes me think that Sky and Huschel could be the last two remaining mafia members.
    I don't think Sky was likely to get lynched at all. It's why I shot her. Also, I must have gotten the gun or somebody would have counterclaimed me by now. I should mention that I got a gun during the Night for having chosen the correct number.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    I don't think we have a non-killing Mafia because of SkullJoke. If it's the numbers that determine the game:
    Day 1 Jabs got a gun from the numbers.
    Mafia killed SkullJoke Night 1. Jabs, who had the gun, decided to wait.
    Day 2 no new numbers were chosen due to Jabs still having the gun.
    Jabs didn't get to use his gun Night 2. Mafia did not kill Night 2 to help Kitsune pass.
    Day 3 we chose new numbers to determine the gun.
    Night 3 both the new gun wielder and the Mafia chose to kill.
    I can believe this. Except that Jabber got the gun during the Night, but that doesn't matter. I find it more likely that the mafia intentionally didn't kill - like you propose - than that there is a way to block kills. But what I don't understand is why they would do that. If the whole plan was for KI to claim having been shot then that just delays the game by a Day phase. Once he doesn't die, he gets lynched the next Day. For now, I will just accept that I don't understand their plan.

    Spoiler:
    The only way I think that blocking a kill could work is if a certain number means that you get a bulletproof vest without being told. Kitsune was pretty confident to claim having been shot though which means he must have known that nobody (else) was bleeding out. Without a confirmation via Shuhan that their kill didn't go through at all they couldn't be certain that their target wasn't just keeping quiet about having been shot. So, this is convoluted and therefore unlikely, in my mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by SUDK
    @Huschel: Why choose Sky as your target? Also is your gun single-use?
    I was confident that for any other player - should they be mafia - the chance of them getting prosecuted and lynched was way higher than for Sky. Kmo has been under fire, so has Foolio and Kirby. SUDK a little bit. Sky was kind of almost lynched twice but then it didn't happen.

    Yes, I only had one bullet. But I guess i still have the gun. So whoever said it might get redistributed in case of my death. That's a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Everyone: Some questions for ya.
    1. Assuming Kitsune did not lie about being shot on night 2, how did he get shot? Why might a mafia member have gotten shot?
    2. Assuming Kitsune did lie about being shot on night 2, why would a mafia member have sacrificed himself in such a way? Do you think that my explanation (that there were three mafia members and they knew we were at MiLo/LyLo on day 3) makes sense?
    3. Could the mafia have more than one gun? If so, did they start with more than one, or did they acquire another one at a later time?
    4. If multiple guns were to be used on the same target on the same night, would the victim bleed to death as we have seen so far?
    5. Do you think that Huschel should use his gun tonight? If so, then who should he use it on?
    1) It makes little sense to me that the mafia would shoot their own just to see them flip at the end of the Day. The gun (assuming there is only one which I am) wasn't in play at the time. So I don't know how he might have gotten shot. Also, I feel like his death blurb would have told us if he was actually bleeding already.
    2) I can see where you're coming from. But I agree with Foolio that three mafia members that can night kill is too many. I will go with the explanation that Kitsune panicked and got caught in inconsistencies.
    3) Are you asking whether they can kill more than one person in one Night? Probably not. Unless they get the number gun. And/or are you asking whether their guns have limited bullets, maybe just one? That would be unusual, but maybe they have to reload every other night? Seems unnecessarily fiddly though.
    4) Bleeding to death immediately would make sense to me.
    5) I could throw it at somebody's face.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmohyudin View Post
    Vote Lynch: Huschel

    I read your posts and I don't see anything resembling this

    I think you have been subtly taking all possible options, to give yourself wiggle room in case you need it. Making a claim, and then saying on the other hand the opposite is true as well. The final nail is that I absolutely do not buy your reasons, if they can be called reasons, to shoot Sky.

    @ Everyone: Sorry, been a lot busy lately, will have more time in about 12 or so hours. In the meantime, I will be more reactive in my posts, and hope that you will forgive me.
    Thank you. I was so surprised that nobody was really judging me for using the gun. I very much expected having to defend myself throughout the whole Day.

    Making a claim, and then saying on the other hand the opposite is true as well.
    I have a bad habit of entertaining opposing possibilities, but I think I usually try to end with what my actual stance is. Anything in particular that you're referring to?

    My reasons for shooting Sky are what they are. I suppose I could add that I was handed a gun and I wanted to use it. Because it's fun.

    ---

    Okay. So I am inclined to believe that Kirby really got shot by the mafia. The mafia didn't know that I would shoot Sky, so they couldn't plan ahead taking that into account. Which means that Kirby coming up with the plan of fake-claiming bleeding out only 20 minutes after Sky revealed her wound would be very ballsy. Personally, I would give it a little more thought and see what others are saying first. In addition, nobody else has been shot.

    That means that I believe Kirby to be Town. But I don't know if I want to lynch Foolio like Kirby is proposing. I stand by the fact that Foolio has been on Kitune's case since very early on (@Foolio: I changed my mind on that yesterday after you stopped reading, probably). In a way that seems excessive for scum buddies even if they are trying to fake animosity. If it's all a ploy then I'll very much respect that. :P

    @Kirby: What is your opinion on Foolio's relationship with Kitsune? Can you please reread his posts from Day 1 and Day 2?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Alright, alright. Kmo (and maybe Kirby) makes a good point. It is possible that every gun has exactly one bullet. I myself know this to be true for the gun I received. If the mafia really only gets to kill every other Night/once every two Nights, then that whole Day of trying to delay makes more sense. So that, plus bullet-proofish vests could balance the fact that it's 7 Town against 3 mafia members. It's still a lot because a large part of the mafias power is influencing Town and with 3 people that's super easy. But I can buy it.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  10. #650
    Okashira kmohyudin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Thank you. I was so surprised that nobody was really judging me for using the gun. I very much expected having to defend myself throughout the whole Day.

    I have a bad habit of entertaining opposing possibilities, but I think I usually try to end with what my actual stance is. Anything in particular that you're referring to?

    My reasons for shooting Sky are what they are. I suppose I could add that I was handed a gun and I wanted to use it. Because it's fun.
    I have honestly reread the whole thread twice, and I don't really have the energy or the motivation to do it once more to find any particular posts :/ But, I will give you some examples:

    Day 1, main topic is Lynch vs No Lynch. Let's see what your stance is??

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    @No-lynching: No one asked, but here's my stance. There's two reasons I was advocating a lynch on Day 1

    1) I was actually close to agreeing with others that a Day 1 lynch would be rather random and not all that helpful. But I was afraid that saying as much would lead to Town just waiting for the day to end because there's 'nothing' to go on. I am very happy with the amount of discussion that we've had.
    2) I didn't run the numbers and basically just figured that if a no lynch is beneficial numbers-wise right now, then it will be just as beneficial on another day. I did ignore the fact that we will have more to go on on that other day.
    3) Yes, there's three now, I lied! It's been mentioned, but it bears repeating: inactive Townies drag us down and the game becomes less enjoyable.

    So yeah, at this point I'm fine with no-lynching. Unvote (and I forgot about the holiday, by the way. Well excused, fox :P)
    Just look at the amount of opinions there are in this post. Almost every POV is covered, and than you subtly went with the popular opinion at that point. That's not YOUR stance, that is touching on every stance, and then choosing what's popular. I also didn't see you really advocating for a lynch as you claimed (maybe I missed it) Not to mention two posts down, you acknowledged another opinion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    This is a true fact. We are bad at it. But it's the weapon we have. We can't rely on powers that may help us out, we have to engage with each other during the day phase. I'd still like for you to be more actively active. I get the impression that you mostly responded to other people's questions and statements.
    Day 2, main topic is whether to lynch Kitsune Inferno or not. Again, you are of the opinion that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    I was on board with lynching Kitsune today because I am very doubtful about the claim. But it has been pointed out that he supposedly got shot and is already bleeding out. So if he's still alive tomorrow he may find a way to wiggle himself out of that predicament/the mafia will have already overtaken Town in spirit, we lynch him then. On the other hand, can't lose a Townie to bleeding out if we kill him first.
    So... yes, but no, but yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    I think I also want to lynch Kitsune today. I don't see the point in waiting for something that may or may not happen when I find his claim/role very convoluted.

    To be clear myself, I am targeting Kitsune because I don't believe the claim. We don't know where Jabs got the gun from. It also makes absolutely no sense to me that Kitsune rolled a 1 last Night and did not immediately choose it at Day break when he now knows what the numbers do for him.

    I do find it disconcerting that kmo also wants to lynch KI. I seem to have a weird blindspot for him in this game and I should (re)evaluate how I feel about him. If kmo is mafia, he might also be going after KI as a potential 3rd party.

    As far as I can tell, Kitsune only has one vote on him right now (out of 4 needed to lynch), so I'll put him at L-2.

    Vote Lynch: Kitsune Inferno
    So, okay lynch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    I am not 100% sold on lynching you. But I can't just ignore what I feel are inconsistencies/weak role claims.

    I will try to re-evaluate my stance on you, kmo and Foolio before the Day is over. Unfortunately, when I'll have time to do that, most people won't be around until close to day end. As a heads-up/warning, I guess.
    Maybe not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    ... The reason I named you, kmo and Foolio specifically is because I do feel like I may have been basing my thoughts on unfounded first impressions/hunches concerning you three.
    So, now there is an equivalency between me, Foolio and Kitsune Inferno?

    Honestly, almost every stance you have taken, you have somehow, somewhere taken an opposite stance, or given yourself wiggle room in case you get called on it. You have done so on Hypo-cop stance I think, I may have misremembered that, so if someone can look it up... (pretty please)?

    Then there is your stance on Sky:

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Sky was a perfectly valid wagon yeesterday. I have no idea why Jabber did not claim his role when he had the chance in the middle of the Day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Because now there's bigger fish to fry. Kitsune and you right now, it seems. Sky hasn't given me enough to value her flip over more active people, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Nothing shocking, I'd wager. I wish they'd be around more. I have gotten neither Town nor Mafia vibes from either. I will try to form a better opinion about them soon as well. The reason I named you, kmo and Foolio specifically is because I do feel like I may have been basing my thoughts on unfounded first impressions/hunches concerning you three.
    Again, all over the place, and then there is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    It seems like the answer to the this question in this particular game is always 'It is you!!!'
    I have been surprised by some of your voting decisions. And you just answered my question to KI's about choosing the number himself. You would have crucified other people for that. Is the answer obvious? Maybe. Then Kitsune should have had the foresight to mention it in his intitial explanation. It seems to me that he is making it all up as he goes trying to make it fit within a framework built by the small pieces of information we have.
    What voting decisions? This actually got me royally pissed at Foolio because they ignored it (even after my prompting). I was actually in the middle of writing a VERY snippy post when Kitsune Inferno hammered himself, and I am kinda thankful to him, because I would have regretted it.

    So, no. I didn't get the impression that we (me and you, as you claimed) were on the same page at all. I also didn't get the impression that you would be particularly aiming for Sky, even though you left hints here and there, but you also took opposite views, and then NO VIEWS at all!! I would have really liked and hoped that you would have made the usage of the gun a town decision, I don't agree that you were a prime target for mafia (I think myself, Foolio, or Kirby would have ranked higher).

    There is a lot more I think I could add, but let's start with this.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Also, I feel that aiming for Sky (and hoping to live among the stars... something very poetic here...) was a very burdened decision at this point in the game, that shouldn't have been left to any particular person. This is a gross violation of the town's trust, and for someone who didn't put himself up for any kind of secrutiny or risk, it was not a decision to make. You jumped the gun (ha...) and I don't think you can claim ignorance on the matter. The decision makes perfect sense if you are mafia. It makes zero sense if you are town.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by kmohyudin View Post
    What voting decisions? This actually got me royally pissed at Foolio because they ignored it (even after my prompting). I was actually in the middle of writing a VERY snippy post when Kitsune Inferno hammered himself, and I am kinda thankful to him, because I would have regretted it.
    Hidden:
    Since I have touched on this, I think I should explain. I was kinda hurt that when Foolio went after Kirby, even voted for them and then I added my own questions to the accusation, and Kirby responded to all of them. Rather than evaluating and pushing Kirby, as should be done, Foolio instead chose to ignore all that, and focus on my speculation on even day jester. I get that Foolio was frustrated at wild speculations, and wanted to focus the town on scumhunt, but its not like I ignored it. I did what I thought was needed. I hated the fact that Foolio basically resigned (said they had zero motivation, felt like dead weight etc).

    I mean look at it from my POV. I already felt really bad on the whole Jabberwok affair. I got really a really pissy post from Kitsune Inferno (who later apologized) but wherein he did say that I was the reason people are choosing not to post. And then this. Honestly, I joined this game because I really had a nostalgic love for Mafia, but so far it felt like my inclusion had been detrimental to the fun everyone should be having.

    Anyway, that was the gist of it, and it's not like I am feeling bad anymore. I just wanted to clarify my position so that we can move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by xterm
    The problem with [the world] is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
    Thanks Sky for the Avatar

  11. #651

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by kmohyudin View Post
    I have honestly reread the whole thread twice, and I don't really have the energy or the motivation to do it once more to find any particular posts :/
    Fair enough, I definitely get that. But it seems like you have lots of examples anyway, so thanks for that. I don't really think that I can defend myself to your satisfaction, but I will try to give my point of view.

    About lynching on Day 1: Like I said, I didn't want to agree with people before me who were advocating for a no lynch because I didn't want the Day to stagnate. I personally would have preferred a lynch on Sky on Day 1. But when people gave me the number spiel about how a no lynch can be beneficial due to ratios and whatnot, I resigned. I said I was 'fine with a no lynch'. I didn't say that I liked it.

    About lynching Kitsune on Day 2: My first post that you quoted is odd, I'll give you that. I think I was still trying to figure out whether KI was actually bleeding out or not. I also brought up the issues I had with waiting for him to bleed out though. Admittedly, I did it in a joking manner, but I repeated it a couple times later on. But I think I consistently had the opinion that KI should be lynched. I voted for him in the next quote. The 'I'm not 100% convinced' was partially motivated by KI's behaviour and his issues with the game. I didn't want him to feel like I was attacking him. But I did say that I was voting for him for a reason. Also, at the time I would still have been okay with a Sky lynch, I won't deny that.

    About hypo-copping: I was against hypo-copping. I brought up the possibility of hypo-doccing but dismissed it immediately as a bad idea. KI later called me out on hypo-doccing being a bad idea. Which I had already acknowledged.

    About Sky: I don't see how that is all over the place. I wanted Sky lynched because nobody can get a read on her. If she is mafia then everybody will be ignoring her until the end of the game. I had the opportunity to take matters into my own hands, so I did. When I said that there were bigger fish to fry that didn't mean that I suddenly didn't want Sky to be lynched anymore. I just knew that it wasn't gonna happen.

    About accusing Foolio of weird voting behaviour: That one's on me. I already mentioned what I meant by that yesterday. During my reread, I realized that I was only really taking issue with his vote on Kirby at the time. I didn't think it was well-based.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel
    What threw me off initially was his symbolic vote against Kirby in post #155, as well as several statements that I took as trying to subtly incriminate Kirby (#93 & #132). And you and Kitsune both grilling Kirby for using terms a newbie shouldn't know. I have changed my mind about that, I guess. Those were valid statements/mistakes to make.
    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by kmohyudin
    So, no. I didn't get the impression that we (me and you, as you claimed) were on the same page at all. I also didn't get the impression that you would be particularly aiming for Sky, even though you left hints here and there, but you also took opposite views, and then NO VIEWS at all!! I would have really liked and hoped that you would have made the usage of the gun a town decision, I don't agree that you were a prime target for mafia (I think myself, Foolio, or Kirby would have ranked higher).
    I do think we have a similar thought process. The whole big thing about Kirby and Skull soft-claiming vanilla roles is something that we both took as Townie signs. I agreed with you that Jabberwock's responses were suspicious. I guess we disagree about lots of other things though.

    Also, I feel that aiming for Sky (and hoping to live among the stars... something very poetic here...) was a very burdened decision at this point in the game, that shouldn't have been left to any particular person. This is a gross violation of the town's trust, and for someone who didn't put himself up for any kind of secrutiny or risk, it was not a decision to make. You jumped the gun (ha...) and I don't think you can claim ignorance on the matter. The decision makes perfect sense if you are mafia. It makes zero sense if you are town.
    It was certainly selfish. I am very much looking forward to seeing Sky's alignment. If it's mafia, I will feel like a freaking genius. If it's Town, I'll still feel alright for eliminating a semi-active player.* Unless that'll lose us the game. But that's results-oriented thinking.

    *in that case I will feel bad for Sky though, I hope me shooting you isn't totally demoralizing

    Hidden:
    Since I have touched on this, I think I should explain. I was kinda hurt that when Foolio went after Kirby, even voted for them and then I added my own questions to the accusation, and Kirby responded to all of them. Rather than evaluating and pushing Kirby, as should be done, Foolio instead chose to ignore all that, and focus on my speculation on even day jester. I get that Foolio was frustrated at wild speculations, and wanted to focus the town on scumhunt, but its not like I ignored it. I did what I thought was needed. I hated the fact that Foolio basically resigned (said they had zero motivation, felt like dead weight etc).

    I mean look at it from my POV. I already felt really bad on the whole Jabberwok affair. I got really a really pissy post from Kitsune Inferno (who later apologized) but wherein he did say that I was the reason people are choosing not to post. And then this. Honestly, I joined this game because I really had a nostalgic love for Mafia, but so far it felt like my inclusion had been detrimental to the fun everyone should be having.

    Anyway, that was the gist of it, and it's not like I am feeling bad anymore. I just wanted to clarify my position so that we can move on.
    I'm having lots of fun, but I'm also making sure to make the game fun for myself. I think I've been joking around a little bit more than usual. Because I want to. If other people are having issues enjoying the game, I don't think your first instinct has to be to blame yourself for that.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  12. #652
    Okashira kmohyudin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    I will respond to the other stuff a little later, but as long as you are here, can you tell us why you chose Sky over SUDK?
    Quote Originally Posted by xterm
    The problem with [the world] is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
    Thanks Sky for the Avatar

  13. #653

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by kmohyudin View Post
    I will respond to the other stuff a little later, but as long as you are here, can you tell us why you chose Sky over SUDK?
    SUDK has been back-and-forthing much more. Sky has been around, but mostly to answer some questions and ask some herself before disappearing again.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  14. #654
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    I don’t think that two guns are getting distributed every other night, one to mafia, one at random. I do buy that one gun is getting distributed at random on the night after we choose numbers.

    I don’t buy that any of the guns are single use. People have speculated that we didn’t choose numbers again on day 2 because Jabberwok hadn’t used his gun. Okay. But we didn’t choose new numbers today, and Huschel did use his. If the gun was single use, wouldn’t we be choosing numbers again today?

    I’m beginning to think that Huschel is lying about one or more things with his gun claim.

  15. #655
    Okashira kmohyudin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Fair enough, I definitely get that. But it seems like you have lots of examples anyway, so thanks for that. I don't really think that I can defend myself to your satisfaction, but I will try to give my point of view.
    Lol, yeah. Well I started pretty tired, but at some point, I think I kinda got in the groove and quoted more that I anticipated. It helps that you have like a total of 50 or so posts since the game started...

    About lynching on Day 1: Like I said, I didn't want to agree with people before me who were advocating for a no lynch because I didn't want the Day to stagnate. I personally would have preferred a lynch on Sky on Day 1. But when people gave me the number spiel about how a no lynch can be beneficial due to ratios and whatnot, I resigned. I said I was 'fine with a no lynch'. I didn't say that I liked it.
    Okay, so yeah, that's a stance! Nice... would be really unfortunate if something happene-

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    ...That being said, I'm not exactly convinced that Sky should be the target. She's not the worst one either, still just based on activity level. But others are similarly an option. I'll wait and see a little while longer....
    Well look at that... an opposing viewpoint...
    About lynching Kitsune on Day 2: My first post that you quoted is odd, I'll give you that. I think I was still trying to figure out whether KI was actually bleeding out or not. I also brought up the issues I had with waiting for him to bleed out though. Admittedly, I did it in a joking manner, but I repeated it a couple times later on. But I think I consistently had the opinion that KI should be lynched. I voted for him in the next quote. The 'I'm not 100% convinced' was partially motivated by KI's behaviour and his issues with the game. I didn't want him to feel like I was attacking him. But I did say that I was voting for him for a reason. Also, at the time I would still have been okay with a Sky lynch, I won't deny that.
    Okay, I actually see where you are coming from. But, that's exactly my point. The way you have been submitting your "views", in the matter of Kitsune Inferno and Day 1 lynch vs no-lynch, is VERY easy to defend, precisely because you can find counter-examples to everything. I assure you, I have read everything you say, and even now I am not really clear of what you want. Which is why your shooting of Sky came as a surprise because it is NOT something I would have expected of you. And here is the thing, I don't see that as a townie behavior. It's a behavior that's intended to absolve oneself of blame rather than place it on someone else (i.e. mafia) which is the basis of scumhunt. There are very few instances where I have seen you catch some inconsistency or irregularity, I certainly haven't seen any sort of pressure from you to anyone.

    You never put yourself up there, at risk with ANYTHING! How is it justified that you get to make a critical decision on how the town should behave, when NO ONE KNOWS what you stand for?

    Everything you have said seems like a deliberate attempt of a defense, that no townie should have the care or the time for.

    About hypo-copping: I was against hypo-copping. I brought up the possibility of hypo-doccing but dismissed it immediately as a bad idea. KI later called me out on hypo-doccing being a bad idea. Which I had already acknowledged.
    Okay, I will have to go back and check, but this seems about right...
    About Sky: I don't see how that is all over the place. I wanted Sky lynched because nobody can get a read on her. If she is mafia then everybody will be ignoring her until the end of the game. I had the opportunity to take matters into my own hands, so I did. When I said that there were bigger fish to fry that didn't mean that I suddenly didn't want Sky to be lynched anymore. I just knew that it wasn't gonna happen.
    You shouldn't have. Not without giving town an express notice. SUDK even had a open question on the matter, and I don't think I saw you reply.

    About accusing Foolio of weird voting behaviour: That one's on me. I already mentioned what I meant by that yesterday. During my reread, I realized that I was only really taking issue with his vote on Kirby at the time. I didn't think it was well-based.
    I still would have grilled Foolio rather than answer the question myself. No matter what, a discussion would have helped the town get more information, and I believe that is always helpful. I would never say: Hey Huschel, what's up with the beard man... oh wait, no, I just noticed that you said you shaved it. It's cool. You need to defend your own beard, or lack of it. And maybe, just maybe we can get something related out of it, like maybe you had some sort of face lice or I don't know... (I have children who go to school, and I just hate lice, I HATE THEM!!)
    I'm having lots of fun, but I'm also making sure to make the game fun for myself. I think I've been joking around a little bit more than usual. Because I want to. If other people are having issues enjoying the game, I don't think your first instinct has to be to blame yourself for that.
    Yeah, you are right :D
    Quote Originally Posted by xterm
    The problem with [the world] is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
    Thanks Sky for the Avatar

  16. #656

    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Yeah, you're right. I do have the habit of not making absolute statements. Like, ever. And I understand that this unhelpful for Town. But when I am unsure about things I want to keep my options open. And when I want to change my mind because of new information or just because I think of something new myself, then I will.

    I can't really say anything else on the matter. I'll wait to see if others get the same read on me that you have. Because you sure like to make absolute statements about NO ONE knowing what I stand for. :P

    This is probably where I should make a case against somebody else, but I'm still very uncertain about who that would be. All I know is that it's not Kirby. You're not gonna like this, but I'll probably be okay with lynching whoever Town wants to lynch. Well, except Kirby and myself, that is. If there really are two members of the Mafia left, we will need every single Townie to vote together. And I really actually am one of those.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  17. #657
    Okashira kmohyudin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Yeah, you're right. I do have the habit of not making absolute statements. Like, ever. And I understand that this unhelpful for Town. But when I am unsure about things I want to keep my options open. And when I want to change my mind because of new information or just because I think of something new myself, then I will.
    Okay, I get that. That's a perfectly fine behavior in a game where you are playing individually. In cooperative play, this is the worst.

    I can't really say anything else on the matter. I'll wait to see if others get the same read on me that you have. Because you sure like to make absolute statements about NO ONE knowing what I stand for. :P
    I am kinda disappointed... Well, I do have some other stuff I want to get by you relating to your earlier interactions with Kitsune Inferno. But, can't right now, as I am on my cell. If someone else can pick that up, that will be okay with me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xterm
    The problem with [the world] is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
    Thanks Sky for the Avatar

  18. #658
    Hermit Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Let's just ask everybody this question:

    If you had gotten the gun as a Townie, who would you have shot last night (if anybody)?
    If you were mafia, who would you have shot last night?
    Personally, I would have shot SUDK, they don't seem to be on anyone's radar yet no has given any clear reason why they read as townie. And I have more on that.

    If mafia, I probably would have gone for kmo, since his very adamant stance throughout yesterday against Kitsune reads as town to me considering Kitsune turned out to be mafia.

    As for SUDK, I think both his actions and interactions with Kitsune have been very suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    I have no issues with him doubting it. I think that anybody 100% believing Skulljoke isn't playing smart. If he'd outright said "I don't believe you." that'd be different.
    This was SUDK defending Kitsune's suspicion of SkullJoke on Day 2, while by itself doesn't really lend itself to a scumtell, in combination of everything else adds to my suspicion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno View Post
    Class is over, but I would like to hear from SUDK first. Spoiler alert: I also want to see Huschel's response to your question in this post.

    The other "wagons" I started were my two vote lynches on SUDK. These were explicitly pressure votes. I want to hear what SUDK has to say.[/COLOR]
    This was Kitsune explaining his pressure vote against SUDK and a call for him to add his thoughts. Personally, I've been on a mafia team with Kitsune in the past where he's done a similar pressure vote in order to get me more engaged in the discussion. This is no where near too suspicious, but I can see where Kitsune is doing the same thing again.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    General Thoughts:
    I would not have voted for a Day Extension on the first day. Especially under the assumption that No Swords was going to pull through and post, or continue on the second day.
    I changed my mind on No Swords' plan after reading other's arguments against it. Fully owning up to that.
    I would not have voted for anyone yesterday. No one stuck out as immediately suspicious enough to vote against, even if there were questionable things I'll bring up here.
    Gonna try to go through and find what made Skulljoke a target for attack after this post. I agree that his message would be really incriminating should something not happen, so I trust him for now.
    I tend to be unavailable within six hours either way of day end/start. Just to be clear.
    I have still never gotten the hang of quoting or multi-quoting, so I'll link post numbers.

    Non-General Thoughts:
    @Kitsune: To clarify: those are pressure votes against me, yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno View Post
    Catching up!



    Your question in the original post to Huschel about Jabberwok, which he ninja'danswered before I could formulate a response.



    Yes. I have explained this already.

    [/COLOR]

    What do you mean by "noticed"? Are you saying that you believe SkullJoke and Kirbycide both read Town to you?

    Yeah, no, you're the one at the top of my list, actually. And this post right here cements. You were gunning pretty hard against Kirby yesterday, but now you're vibing that he's Town? And you're saying that you are making these claims because of proof that you have. Please don't tell me you are softclaiming. If you saw anything last night that corroborates SkullJoke getting shot, that corroborates anyone, then why are you holding on to it? Here's the thing, you don't want to expose yourself if you don't have anything go on, but you claim to have critical information. If you have the identity of a scum or something that is going to be critical to allowing us to scumhunt, then why on earth are you just keeping it close to your vest? At worst, you're scum using the illusion of promising information, and at best, you're being a very messy Townie, and you may have just made yourself a target for the Mafia to kill tonight by being cryptic.

    If you have PROOF that can exonerate anybody, or implicate somebody, or give the town ANYTHING to go on, I would recommend you present that PROOF as such, and not hem-and-haw about it. If it's not "proof" but a theory or conjecture, then you've grossly overestimated the value of what you have.

    Unvote
    These two posts were SUDK's thoughts that Kitsune asked for and Kitsune's subsequent post afterward. Understandably, there was a lot of other discussion that day with kmo and kirby's theories, but Kitsune didn't even address SUDK's post, opinion, or contribution to the discussion, he just unvoted and never referenced voting SUDK again. I don't think anyone even mentioned the votes after that, nor pressured Kitsune to explain why he unvoted. This reads as pretty scummy to me, especially combined with the fact that yesterday, when Kitsune was getting lynched, SUDK was one of the last to vote, and didn't actually put an explanation as to why with it. Kirby asked them whether they were going to vote near the end of day, and their response was "Yes, Vote Lynch: Kitsune Inferno". At that point, it was pretty guaranteed to happen, and it would look more suspicious if they didn't vote for him. Especially if they didn't know Kitsune would post the vote for himself a couple minutes later in frustration.



    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    [/COLOR]

    @Sky: Why do you think you were targeted?
    I've already said I think the person that targeted me was town. I was targetted as someone who has little information to go off of, and could've been mafia. While I definitely see Foolio's point about wasting the shot, or acting selfishly with the gun, I personally would have also shot someone last night if I received a gun. After what happened with Foolio (and assuming that one can only use the gun at night) I would not have wanted to waste my shot.

    Additionally, in the scenario where Huschel waited to use the gun tonight instead, with the town's consensus on who to use it on, there's a big possibility that either his actions would have been blocked or the mafia convinced the town to shoot a townie, while shooting that night as mafia, and would have won automatically.

    Overall, my biggest suspect right now is SUDK, and I'm honestly hoping that there was only a 2-person mafia instead of 3, as I can't really get a scum read off of anyone else at the moment.

    With that;

    Vote Lynch: SomebodyUDon'tKnow

    Awesome Koala by Heart~


  19. #659
    *Angry Catra noises* Shuhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

    Foolio (1): Kirbycide

    Huschel (1): kmohyudin

    SuDoKu (1): Sky

    not voting
    Huschel
    SuDoKu
    Foolio

    21 hours remain.

  20. #660
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan the Hammer: A Mafia Game

    Well. All I know is that if there are two mafia left, there's no way we're going to be able to lynch one of them without every townie agreeing on a single wagon.

    So... how can we consolidate, here? I don't want to go quietly into that good night 4.

    Could Foolio, SUDK, and Sky please answer my questions from earlier?

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