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Thread: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

  1. #1601

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Noqanky View Post
    This thing where we pretend the story in this game is more shit that the story in other Pokemon games is asinine. Pokemon games aren't about the story, they're about you making your team and becoming the best in your region.
    I mean that's a pretty generalizing statement and while true, there's more than just a talented team being the end goal.
    It's like people forget the entire process.
    Pokemon is not a genre on its own, its built on the genre of RPG.
    The sense of exploration and adventure of a young kid discovering unknown lands, meeting interesting characters and a feeling of world-building from deserts to ice mountains to parallel worlds.
    Which by the way in this entry is extremely weak in that aspect.
    Since when have the community lowered their standard to this end that it doesn't matter if elements of what makes up a RPG are weak as long as we managed to build a great team?
    What's the point of having all this other aspects for years if it weren't improved on?
    Obviously Pokemon isn't a full fledged rpg nor does it pretend to be but god at the very least put some effort into it.

    That's why the games end when you beat the champion, not when you foil the evil master plan of some mid-life crisis dude to destroy the world for questionably stupid reasons.
    Even gen 5 where the story was more at the forefront took a huge tumble down to shit when the story took a turn from being morally ambiguous to "cartoonish villain tries to take over the world, summons castle from underground."
    Except in Gen 5 the themes were radically different People liked gen 5's plot because it is different from what the games have been about and the series seems to be going somewhere with it.
    A deeper exploration of the very concepts the series introduced. A villain that challenges the players point of view.
    A NEW POKEDEX THAT DOESN'T HALF ASS dropping the entire dex during the campaign run.

    There is a lot more characterization of the characters in Gen 5 as compared to SwSh.
    Gym leaders actually do their thing and help stop Team Plasma, moving with their intentions in mind. No one could stop N because no one could and you had to.

    Please don't tell me you actually understand what the fuck was the villain's motivation and purpose in SwSh.
    And even if you do understand, please at least acknowledge that it is terribly done.

    Locations like Black city White forest, the dragonspiral tower, N's castle were all designed and created to support the plot and narrative.

    What the heck does Swsh do? Leave you out of the entire villain arc and design a half-ass basement expecting you to actually be impressed.
    Shoving a "villain and legendaries" segment for no fucking reason because it kind of forget that it needs to do that.
    Am I seriously suppose to be happy that I got a forest with a mist overlay and be wowed by their effort?




    Your point would have made sense if this game drastically improved on its previous iterations but the vast majority thinks its average at best.
    Out of this discussion, your outlook on zelda and fire emblem would have garnered my full support. However, it's not a really good comparison to the pokemon franchise.


    BotW has only four fucking wannabe dungeons, compared to most of the previous titles having roundabouts 7 and 8. This is more actual cutting content than dexit ever was, but almost no one gave a shit because the focus on the overworld won people over. I personally cared and found BotW to be fun for like 4 hours and then become exceedingly boring and inconsistent... but that's fine, I just stopped playing it and went on to play something else.
    Because the developers took risks and it paid off. Pokemon took almost zero risks in SwSh.
    While the core is still dungeons and puzzle solving, BoTw approached it differently by spreading those mechanics out.
    Overworld won the people over not because wow hurr durr overworld but because fuck does it look beautiful to the last strand of grass and does it feel alive as compared to the puppet towns in pokemon.
    It also focuses on fluidity of movement, an arsenal of gadgets and interesting interactions with the environment while utilizing the graphical prowess of Switch.
    No...wait. Yeah, it doesn't just focus, it upgrades on existing elements despite the cut in the depth of the dungeons, there was a compensation for it.

    What did we get from the dexit?
    Okaaay maybe if we don't count the dexit as a variable why is the graphic so shitty and the towns so dead and the music so uninspiring and why can't i see myself in a lift moving or ANY effort put into the animations

    Also the new dyna-giga max is not a groundbreaking "new" makeover.
    The series does this crap with every release.





    Same with Fire Emblem... significantly less maps and story chapters than previous Fire Emblem games... Fire Emblem 7 was around 30 chapters I think, with side chapters in there, different nuanced objectives, and still having brilliantly written characters and story. The new one dramatically reduced the amount of original content, turned recycled content up to 11... and it worked! Why? Because the mechanics of experiencing different stories through different perspectives and understanding the different characters through different playthroughs was so compelling that all that other shit didn't matter. It was still just fun, and it did well because of it.
    I felt this playing Three Houses.
    While not a complete makeover of the franchise, once again the series took risks.
    Turning it into more Persona like and a "visual novel" ish experience expanded their audience.
    However, I don't think there's a dramatic reduction in overall content. In terms of writing, I'll go and say that the content in terms of writing might have been more than previous games.
    The old aspects were there but presented in different ways (aux maps, characters maps replacing grinding/side events maps). I feel like instead of removing anything, adding the school and persona-esque aspects actually made it a lot more fun.
    You're right that parts were recycled but it was so compelling it didn't mattered and it only worked because of the new aspects mentioned. Take those away and the people who would replay the same game 4 times drastically decrease.

    Now let's see what SwSh has added that has made the experience so much more compelling and interesting!!
    ...
    huh?

    Oh and while we are at it, FE developers actually gives a shit about their fanbase. A lot more than gamefreak.





    As much as people insist on writing essays and rants about it endlessly, the fact is that a lot of the complaints feel like people who wanted to hate this game since before it released still intent on hating it.
    I had this same impression of people when i started the game, I thought people were overly toxic in their hate.
    At the end of this game? I think it is very justified.



    That may not be the case here, but we can't ignore the fact that there's a ton of people having fun and SO MANY PEOPLE buying this game and enjoying it because, as was foretold, all this shit like dexit and "trees look bad" doesn't actually matter to the fun most people will have from this game.
    You need to realize that Pokemon's fanbase is no longer the same fanbase it has when XY releases.
    The people who are having fun have no relative experience with what a good rpg could really be or what Pokemon was like when it was at it's peak.
    It's like people going to new Star wars movie and calling it the same kind of masterpiece compared to the older ones.
    Or people who watch Transformers and call it Oscar worthy.
    It doesn't matter to the casuals or the people who come in just because wow so cute! or hey when is this coming to pokemon go! or any variations of shallow praise.

    Why the fuck do I, as a long time fan who has been supporting this series consistently have to look pass at this behemoth of a company pandering to the masses so blatantly and ignoring their long time fans?
    It's lazy because it is what it is, a cash grab that works because it builds on the momentum of its popularity.

    As a 70$ game designed for switch, this is unacceptable and mediocre. This is not a subjective statement.

    Why can't they pander to both new comers and long time fans? Why must the backlash be that harsh from their long time fans?
    Is it really that hard for a multi-million company to do?



    If their games were actually bad, people would just stop playing, because unlike all the complainers all over the internet, what normally happens when a game is bad is that people just stop playing it and go play something else.
    Surely because something is popular and sell well it is of substance and of high quality.
    There's no exceptions aren't they.
    Nope, not in the movie industry
    Or the manga industry
    I mean naruto sells well must be consistently gold
    oh i mean that new gacha game makes shit ton of money, props to their writing and uh beautiful assets.
    I could go on and on about economics, marketing and how when something is popular doesn't mean that it's good but it's too long and I'm too gamefreak level lazy to do so.



    What you have to realize at some point is that maybe pokemon just isn't for you? Like, you CAN enjoy the pokemon franchise without spending $60 to play a new game you know you're going to hate. And if you do buy it and hate it as expected, you also just have the power to stop playing it. Instead of being toxic to the devs just accept that this game is for someone else and respectfully let those people enjoy their game. If you're not having fun, the solution isn't to insist to the world that something YOU didn't like is objectively not fun. Like, just stop playing the game and have fun somewhere else.
    But not before I express my opinion and bitch about it because I feel like I kind of deserve to be able to do that after spending time and money on it.
    Are people being toxic to the developers or are people actually calling out on their shit?
    Because all I've been seeing is gamefreak trying to smoke their consumers and it seems to have worked.

    This is exactly the reason why Gamefreak shits over their core fans because the majority of their fanbase doesn't care about quality.
    But you're right.
    I should stop playing it because obviously the Pokemon games are not targeted for their core game fans anymore.

    Sure, the point of games is to have fun and it shouldn't be anyone's else business when someone is genuinely having fun.
    However, it is equally unfair to just look at the good stuff and try to silence the opinions of those who point out the flaws.
    Especially when the flaws are so glaring and while it might not affect them, have the damn decency to at least acknowledge it affects others and in this case, a majority of them.
    Let the snowball of consumer fake bullshit positivism roll long enough and it'll turn big into a heap pile of trash.

    Like, have you guys played Ni no Kuni? That has collecting, team building and has significantly better story, music and art direction compared to the pokemon series. It's also on Switch right now. I would much rather you guys go play that and have a great time than feel compelled to constantly dump on the game on loop while other people here want to just enjoy it, talk about it, trade, share stories, etc. At the end of the day that's the fucking point of games, to have FUN.
    I lost my save data but I felt the love that went into the game.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    Hey, hey! Leave the new pokémon alone, they are great. Once the dust is settled, Orbeetle will probably remain on my top20, maybe 10. And there are a lot of other great ones.
    Hey we share the same Pokemon.
    Cool.
    Okay it's a really subjective thing but I really really don't like the starters final evol and the giant centipede..purplish..thing.



    It's no surprise GF kept so much of the new dex in secrecy, they probably knew the new pokémon were all the game had so they didn't want to exhaust all the things that could elicit a good reaction before the game was out. The fact they are arguing the leakers caused "irreparable injury" to Pokémon by revealing the game contents and that leading to "reduced fan interest and engagement" is pretty much an admission of knowing their game was shit and that they were trying to hide it (I mean, obviously TPCi is right on their lawsuit against breaches of contract, but I find their logic and wording very revealing).
    When you think about it, the fact they revealed so much in Gen VII and the fact they revealed so little now was not a matter of different marketing strategies, it was a matter of confidence in their games. They knew Alola was appealing and the more they showed the more interest would be generated. And they knew Galar was the opposite.
    Never thought of it that way but now I know why they did that.
    GF doesn't even have confidence that their game would fall apart once their fans know where to look so they decided to smoke it through.
    Heh, this company really did grow up to become a multi-million traditionalist evil king-pin style group.
    Last edited by zeltrax225; November 26th, 2019 at 09:39 PM.

  2. #1602

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    I mean that's a pretty generalizing statement and while true, there's more than just a talented team being the end goal.
    It's like people forget the entire process.
    Pokemon is not a genre on its own, its built on the genre of RPG.
    The sense of exploration and adventure of a young kid discovering unknown lands, meeting interesting characters and a feeling of world-building from deserts to ice mountains to parallel worlds.
    Which by the way in this entry is extremely weak in that aspect.
    Since when have the community lowered their standard to this end that it doesn't matter if elements of what makes up a RPG are weak as long as we managed to build a great team?
    What's the point of having all this other aspects for years if it weren't improved on?
    Obviously Pokemon isn't a full fledged rpg nor does it pretend to be but god at the very least put some effort into it.
    This is still subjective though. Even without good story pokemon games to me have always been enjoyable experiences. X and Y, for example, are particularly strong cases of a really weak story but a world so well-built and immersive that it still made the game fun.
    It's not that people are lowering their standards, it's that what you think is weak is something other people don't think is weak. Several reviews, for example, have pointed out how hype the new gyms are and how much excitement this brings to the experience.


    Except in Gen 5 the themes were radically different People liked gen 5's plot because it is different from what the games have been about and the series seems to be going somewhere with it.
    A deeper exploration of the very concepts the series introduced. A villain that challenges the players point of view.
    A NEW POKEDEX THAT DOESN'T HALF ASS dropping the entire dex during the campaign run.

    There is a lot more characterization of the characters in Gen 5 as compared to SwSh.
    Gym leaders actually do their thing and help stop Team Plasma, moving with their intentions in mind. No one could stop N because no one could and you had to.

    Please don't tell me you actually understand what the fuck was the villain's motivation and purpose in SwSh.
    And even if you do understand, please at least acknowledge that it is terribly done.

    Locations like Black city White forest, the dragonspiral tower, N's castle were all designed and created to support the plot and narrative.

    What the heck does Swsh do? Leave you out of the entire villain arc and design a half-ass basement expecting you to actually be impressed.
    Shoving a "villain and legendaries" segment for no fucking reason because it kind of forget that it needs to do that.
    Am I seriously suppose to be happy that I got a forest with a mist overlay and be wowed by their effort?
    There's points here where I agree with you, but you're still tossing so much highly subjective stuff that it's hard to really have a nuanced conversation on this.

    Gen 5 did begin with a cool idea for a concept, but completely dropped it in favor of making Ghetsis OBJECTIVELY evil. The nuance of whether it was right to catch pokemon or not was removed completely in favor of just solving the story at the end.

    Character development I'll admit is much more fleshed out in 5. Hop, Marnie and Bede had cool concepts go into them, but they went unexplored a lot of the times. The concept of legacy and progress was done fairly half-assedly and not really conveyed as well as it could have, compared to how well Bianca and Cheren go during the story.
    But likewise, I'll toss out that there's things this game does better. The champion was significantly more interesting and worth defeating than Alder ever was. Also, in black and white completing the league made absolutely no sense... if you have a legendary dragon that reshaped the region in ages past, it makes no sense you would need to become champion for people to listen to you, and the idea that you had to race N to be champion was an artificial way to reconcile story with classic pokemon progression. And then also, despite being cool, the elite four are still mostly some assholes that are just sitting in a room waiting to exist for the player.

    The ultimate point is that we could sit here and talk all day about how each pokemon game succeeds and fails in its narrative, and this game doesn't fall drastically below or above others in its series. If anything, the core difference is that this is the one pokemon game where most fans went in ready to criticize, and I think that's fair to consider when looking at response from "the community"

    Your point would have made sense if this game drastically improved on its previous iterations but the vast majority thinks its average at best.
    Out of this discussion, your outlook on zelda and fire emblem would have garnered my full support. However, it's not a really good comparison to the pokemon franchise.

    Because the developers took risks and it paid off. Pokemon took almost zero risks in SwSh.
    While the core is still dungeons and puzzle solving, BoTw approached it differently by spreading those mechanics out.
    Overworld won the people over not because wow hurr durr overworld but because fuck does it look beautiful to the last strand of grass and does it feel alive as compared to the puppet towns in pokemon.
    It also focuses on fluidity of movement, an arsenal of gadgets and interesting interactions with the environment while utilizing the graphical prowess of Switch.
    No...wait. Yeah, it doesn't just focus, it upgrades on existing elements despite the cut in the depth of the dungeons, there was a compensation for it.

    What did we get from the dexit?
    Okaaay maybe if we don't count the dexit as a variable why is the graphic so shitty and the towns so dead and the music so uninspiring and why can't i see myself in a lift moving or ANY effort put into the animations

    Also the new dyna-giga max is not a groundbreaking "new" makeover.
    The series does this crap with every release.

    I felt this playing Three Houses.
    While not a complete makeover of the franchise, once again the series took risks.
    Turning it into more Persona like and a "visual novel" ish experience expanded their audience.
    However, I don't think there's a dramatic reduction in overall content. In terms of writing, I'll go and say that the content in terms of writing might have been more than previous games.
    The old aspects were there but presented in different ways (aux maps, characters maps replacing grinding/side events maps). I feel like instead of removing anything, adding the school and persona-esque aspects actually made it a lot more fun.
    You're right that parts were recycled but it was so compelling it didn't mattered and it only worked because of the new aspects mentioned. Take those away and the people who would replay the same game 4 times drastically decrease.

    Now let's see what SwSh has added that has made the experience so much more compelling and interesting!!
    ...
    huh?

    Oh and while we are at it, FE developers actually gives a shit about their fanbase. A lot more than gamefreak.
    This, once more, just comes off as completely subjective. You applaud risks and decisions from devs of games you like, while continuously shitting at gamefreak.

    And yea, this game is definitely more safe than others in this list, but you can tell that focus went on mechanics in the wild area and gyms. And I'm definitely in approval of their decision to sacrifice some stuff like adding every single mon if it means there's a robust overworld where just exploring, catching and doing raids consumes a ton of my playtime.

    Just because it's shit to you and you don't enjoy it doesn't make it objectively shit, and that's something YOU need to realize. Games are not made just for you.

    I had this same impression of people when i started the game, I thought people were overly toxic in their hate.
    At the end of this game? I think it is very justified.
    Toxicity is never justified. There are ways to express opinions and criticize products. Attacking the people behind those products is never the right way to go about it, and likewise continuously spouting hate without context is also not the way.

    There's are tons of things to criticize about this game, but it's at the point where it's impossible to talk about them because any nuance cannot exist since people cannot seem to tolerate nuance and want to just full hate or leave.

    You need to realize that Pokemon's fanbase is no longer the same fanbase it has when XY releases.
    The people who are having fun have no relative experience with what a good rpg could really be or what Pokemon was like when it was at it's peak.
    It's like people going to new Star wars movie and calling it the same kind of masterpiece compared to the older ones.
    Or people who watch Transformers and call it Oscar worthy.
    It doesn't matter to the casuals or the people who come in just because wow so cute! or hey when is this coming to pokemon go! or any variations of shallow praise.

    Why the fuck do I, as a long time fan who has been supporting this series consistently have to look pass at this behemoth of a company pandering to the masses so blatantly and ignoring their long time fans?
    It's lazy because it is what it is, a cash grab that works because it builds on the momentum of its popularity.

    As a 70$ game designed for switch, this is unacceptable and mediocre. This is not a subjective statement.

    Why can't they pander to both new comers and long time fans? Why must the backlash be that harsh from their long time fans?
    Is it really that hard for a multi-million company to do?
    There's a lot of growing up that needs to happen here.

    The Pokemon franchise appeals to millions of people of different ages. And in that sense, it's exactly the same as the fanbase that has existed since X/Y: new players, kids, and anyone in general who has that disposition to like pokemon.

    There's tons of people enjoying this game with different backgrounds in gaming. I've played tons of RPGs, games of different genres, and the like, and would consider myself expert-level in most games, having done speedruns and tournaments for different games. And I'm having a TON OF FUN.
    That's just one sample, and I know I'm not the only one. There's tons of youtube videos of people excited about the competitive changes, tons of people playing raids together, tons of people who know each and every pokemon by heart who are just enjoying their time.

    This thing of "casuals are ruining my games" is the same gatekeeping that existed for nerds years ago, where you couldn't be a REAL nerd unless x or y. This property, this game, doesn't belong to you and you don't get to decide who gets to rightfully enjoy it and who doesn't, or who should be the people getting to enjoy it at the expense of others.
    If you are a longtime fan and the company isn't catering to you specifically, you are not obligated to keep on being a fan and the company is not obligated to do everything you want. The mature grown-up thing to do at that point is to go enjoy something else.

    Everything you said in this area is literally a subjective statement.

    Also, game companies can't pander to everything because it's impossible. The same fans who shit at companies for releasing a game half-baked are the same people who shit at the same company for pushing back the release of a game, and those are the same fans who want ALL of the content to return in every sequel, but ALSO new content and also you can't have devs partake in crunch because it's inhuman, but still, release everything as soon as possible.
    It's impossible to pander to fans, and I think this year in gaming will be an example in years to come of how the interaction between fans and the properties they consume is reaching new levels of toxic behavior and shit practices.


    Surely because something is popular and sell well it is of substance and of high quality.
    There's no exceptions aren't they.
    Nope, not in the movie industry
    Or the manga industry
    I mean naruto sells well must be consistently gold
    oh i mean that new gacha game makes shit ton of money, props to their writing and uh beautiful assets.
    I could go on and on about economics, marketing and how when something is popular doesn't mean that it's good but it's too long and I'm too gamefreak level lazy to do so.
    It's more mental gymnastics to have the perspective that the game is shit and the only reason so many people like it, it makes so much money, and it's so popular is just because of "the casuals".
    There's probably enough success in this game to keep the property afloat, the companies afloat, and their multiple employees keeping their jobs and livelihoods. That's success.
    There's tons of kids who will grow up to be pokemon fans because they had fun with this game. That's success.

    You can shit at gamefreak all day for being "lazy", but at least they're accomplishing something at a level of impact you don't seem capable of comprehending.


    But not before I express my opinion and bitch about it because I feel like I kind of deserve to be able to do that after spending time and money on it.
    Are people being toxic to the developers or are people actually calling out on their shit?
    Because all I've been seeing is gamefreak trying to smoke their consumers and it seems to have worked.

    This is exactly the reason why Gamefreak shits over their core fans because the majority of their fanbase doesn't care about quality.
    But you're right.
    I should stop playing it because obviously the Pokemon games are not targeted for their core game fans anymore.

    Sure, the point of games is to have fun and it shouldn't be anyone's else business when someone is genuinely having fun.
    However, it is equally unfair to just look at the good stuff and try to silence the opinions of those who point out the flaws.
    Especially when the flaws are so glaring and while it might not affect them, have the damn decency to at least acknowledge it affects others and in this case, a majority of them.
    Let the snowball of consumer fake bullshit positivism roll long enough and it'll turn big into a heap pile of trash.
    You aren't being silenced, CLEARLY, since your posts are still around for everyone to read. What is appreciated is if you at least respect everyone else enough to let them have their opinions instead of just jumping in and claim gamefreak is indefensible, everything is shit, and you're clearly right forever and ever and anyone who disagrees is wrong and silencing you.

    Can YOU have the "damn decency" to acknowledge that other people are actually enjoying this game? So far you seem to just be dismissing all positive stuff as casual trash and "fake bullshit positivism."

  3. #1603

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Main thumbnail is clickbaitey but this guy is generally a very thoughtful and balanced reviewer, and he brings up a lot of solid points.

    Last edited by Robby; November 27th, 2019 at 08:37 AM.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  4. #1604

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    Just to add. Having recently played through gens 5 and 6, and also putting hundreds of hours into gen 7, I don't think Sw/Sh is on average inferior in terms of story or towns.

    The story is lacking in all these games by RPG standards, often with a nonsensical or anticlimactic final act. And that's taking games where the story even exists; forget gen 1 etc. I'll give Sun/Moon the credit for developing cool characters. Lily, Gladion, and Guzma were well done, and so was Lusamine honestly. In that sense I've defended the plot in the past, but that doesn't mean the actual "story" potion of it wasn't short and predictable with no real satisfying conclusion. At least outside of the pretty much background-level "plot" in Sw/Sh there are some cool themes running such as legacy and inheritance. There are cool characters as well like Marnie but they don't get fleshed out as much.

    I don't even know what to say about towns... they've always been pretty small or empty, with no more than a few houses/buildings of interest and sometimes a set piece. Sure, the ONE big city in gen 5 and 6 (Castelia and Lumiose) outscales the counterpart in Sw/Sh (Wyndon), but TBH those cities are annoying as fuck with the scrolling isometric view, segmented areas, and a bunch of buildings you could explore with literally nothing of interest in them. I'll take Wyndon any day.

    Nobody cared before, but suddenly now it's appalling. I was gonna make a different post instead, about my experience in the battle tower, but I guess I'll do that later.
    It's a straw that broke the camel's back thing. Yes, the stories in every Pokemon game (except for Mystery Dungeon 2) are at best cliche and below average, with gen 6 being the low point.
    Every game brings some sort of change, refinement or advancement, but ever since Black and White we lose at least as much as we gain with every new game.

    That gets really frustrating after a while, and it really doesn't help that since gen 3 the initial release of each game has been noticeably unfinished.
    Sword and Shield are no different in that regard, but the quadruple punch of having the game built up as the ultimate Pokemon game on a home console made specifically for hardcore fans, then learning that a large number (more than half as it turned out) of Pokemon were being cut from the game, combined with the years of silent resentment fans have had for Gamefreak at having to put up with this cycle, further combined with the fact that all the other big Nintendo games have shown amazing innovation on the same console have caused a lot of people to complain very loudly about some old problems that should have been solved on the GBA and DS.

  5. #1605

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    How the heck is it that subjective when I say that Wild area and dynamax is not any way a makeover or a whole new innovation as compared to what Zelda and FE3H has done

    I mean I know the term subjective has its use but wow are you pushing it.
    I would reply because I thought we could have a civil discussion and I was in no way targeting you but I don't really feel that this conversation is going anywhere.
    Maybe I'll do it later when I'm not outside and on a phone

    Just to get things right I understand WHY it sells I just don't AGREE with where this series is going and really dislike the game design.

    How the fuck do you even define toxicity.
    Masuda DID try to smoke the fans and lie through his fucking teeth.
    The frame rate is bad online. The online is terrible unless you have a discord and even then it suffers.
    GTS was removed blatantly for Home to be capitalized.
    There are glitches and graphical fails.
    The plot is bad even for kids.
    Am I toxic if I point this out after finishing the game because I'm not nitpicking and it's so apparent.
    So what am I supposed to do now praise the new Butterfree that I can't even catch because it's such a hassle nor can I even raise it in the first place can't I.
    Here that's your decency you want?

    Who exactly is pushing their subjective opinion on who?
    Why do u need to caps that you have ton of fun like it's some kind of fact to fall back on and trumps everything else
    Holy crap this is reaching new levels.

    This is as if one piece goes to shit and we become cult level of acceptance no matter what happens just because it still sells well.
    Last edited by zeltrax225; November 26th, 2019 at 11:38 PM.

  6. #1606
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Middleton, ID

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Unrelated to anything else: I found out that Pokemon Centers wish you happy birthday if you enter one in the day. Curries made also have a birthday candle. I think it's based on an NPC you give your birthday to for a horoscope.

    Waldorf:
    You know Statler, after watching the last seven hundred episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
    Statler: No you haven't.
    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

  7. #1607

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    I think that at least since gen 6 they have been doing that.
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

  8. #1608
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Middleton, ID

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    I haven't played a Pokemon game since Gen 4, so it's new to me either way.

    Waldorf:
    You know Statler, after watching the last seven hundred episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
    Statler: No you haven't.
    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

  9. #1609

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Oh, cool. Is it your birthday? There is no gift but there is a cake.
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

  10. #1610
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Middleton, ID

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Oh, cool. Is it your birthday? There is no gift but there is a cake.
    It was until about fifteen minutes ago. Thanks all the same, though. :)

    Waldorf:
    You know Statler, after watching the last seven hundred episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
    Statler: No you haven't.
    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

  11. #1611

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    I disagree with one thing or two (I don't see the problem in having strong pokémon in the WA you can't catch until you raise your proficiency level to that point. It helps world building to know the strong ones are there as well instead of wild things just magically becoming stronger as you do), and the title is too click-baity, but in general it got things nailed down. Particularly the part about "the target audience" being used to deflect criticism - you would think after Go being the most profitable product, it should go beyond saying small children alone being the target audience of TPCi is something left in the past.

    It also nails the part about "if you are having fun, no problem with it, have fun". If people really think others disliking the game and voicing their criticism is hurting their enjoyment, then I don't know, maybe try to actually post positive things about your experience instead of only engaging to reply people who disliked it and trying to convince them they are wrong for that?

  12. #1612

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Pokemon Sword and Shield and Gamefreak is similar to Fallout 76 and Bethesda (though not as bad). When you start stripping away the main thing that brought people to the game then people are going to have problems particularly with the ones that has always been there.



  13. #1613
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    It also nails the part about "if you are having fun, no problem with it, have fun". If people really think others disliking the game and voicing their criticism is hurting their enjoyment, then I don't know, maybe try to actually post positive things about your experience instead of only engaging to reply people who disliked it and trying to convince them they are wrong for that?
    I usually just ignore anyone that's being excessively negative. I don't mind criticism in and if itself, but if all I ever see or hear from someone is negativity about something I like, I feel neither desire nor obligation to pay any attention to what they have to say.

    Waldorf:
    You know Statler, after watching the last seven hundred episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
    Statler: No you haven't.
    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

  14. #1614

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    On a more positive (?) note...

    the starter evolutions are here!!!


    :D

    Well, I'm in for the official artwork. And Gigantamax Snorlax is also officially revealed and it will become available starting next Wednesday. Gigantamax Lapras appear in the end, but nothing about it has made to the official website.

  15. #1615

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    I'm six badges in now and while the cities since Turffield have gotten better and the later routes are more large and sprawling, relatively speaking, I'm definitely starting to see why people are saying that the game's pacing starts falling off a cliff in the latter half of the game. Returning to Hammerlocke after getting the Fairy Badge and hearing that there's a problem with the power plant that might cause Dynamax Pokemon to go crazy like some kind of kaiju movie stands out to me especially since that could've easily led to a dungeon the equivalent of the Team Rocket Mahogany Town hideout or the Plasma Frigate but here we're just told to move along.

    I've still been trying to rotate party members in and out and trying to keep them roughly on-par with each Gym Leader and so far it's helped keep battle more balanced without me running roughshod over them, though the only times I've felt truly pressured were against Nessa and Gordie. In the former I underestimated Drednaw's speed and accidentally let it set up rain with Max Geyser, then in the latter I couldn't finish off Barbaracle before it popped off Shell Smash and it probably would've swept my team with Razor Shell if I hadn't remembered that I had a Gyarados to switch in to. The battle with Hop outside of Hammerlocke on the way to Circhester was actually the closest I've come to outright wiping so far, partially because I was using a slightly under-leveled and unbalanced team, but still. Between Confuse Ray and Shadow Claw crit hax that Trevenant wiped out half my team before I could take it down and I only had one Pokémon left at the end.

    Lastly, seeing Falinks in action has made it the best new Pokémon of the crop. I love the little guy(s).
    ~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
    3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917

  16. #1616

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Many of the new designs are dumb in picture but beautiful in action, like my boys Falinks.

    The only trainer that managed to KO me was the stupid coffee owner of the dragon city. He’s leveled for the trip back, not the starting trip, and my over reliance on bugs meant that the slurpuf with flamethrower just took down half my party effortlessly

    I had close calls in gyms and even with one of the later Hop fights, but the game had given me a ton of revives and well..

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    About comparing Pokémon vs persona 5 or dq11 in the gameplay plane:

    In persona 5 each party member has 8 slots for magic powers or passives, two weapons and the standard options, and social link options, plus your MC has like 8-10 slots for each equiped persona.

    Dragon quest 11 had like for physical characters just over 2 pages of 8 items each, with the magical ones going well into 5 or 6 pages, with a ton of those options becoming useless but being for sure more than six beyond the standard attack/defense, and the pep system.

    Those RPG are balanced against enemies with way more health than yourself, so damaging and healing options are more plentiful in character actions and item management.

    And Pokémon has 6 bodies, 4 moves, a passive and an item to play, and up to 2 battle slots for those bodies.

    It’s not like the complexity of those games exploded recently either, they made things more convenient and streamlined, and allowed to change party members in battle (no one wants to get to use the PC in battle I hope) but no matter how beautiful and entertaining those systems are, it is product of polish, not overhauling. The biggest change I guess is in dq that we went it o a more ATB style where you pick your actions during your turn according to your speed instead of all actions at the start of the turn -!
    And in persona one of the features was the ability to control your whole party.

    The other point is the disparity of power between your team and the enemy, one imp is easy for one character, but they can be from 1 to 6, at most the time that you have been the most outnumbered is 5 wild mons against one yours and your party.

    1v1, 2v2, some other no longer supported formats. We had experiments with partner trainers in gen 4, and a couple of 2v2 with hop at your side.

    What is the actual problem?
    The lack of polish (meaning animations, streamlining, information, feedback)?
    Lack of options (4 moves or switch is just not enough)?
    Lack of challenges who are resistant to regular strategy of “bring super effective” ?
    The restrictive aspect of the required symmetry (you can use almost the same as the opponent, so they can’t have an unfair advantage to be truly able to mess you up without just bigger numbers)?
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

  17. #1617

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    I think with Persona and DQ while it is not an overhaul, they did incorporate new elements and improve on existing ones significantly

    They also have consistency despite their length. No matter which point you are in the game, the next segment has a little surprise .
    What Pokemon does is not listen to their fans or improve on what works but introduce something new and then take it away again.
    The blatant simplicity of the last few dungeons(if you can even call it that) feels like an insult to the genre's previous trying caves and mountains.
    The new Wild area has no complexity and no real sense of engagement besides online features.
    Every release is a rinse and repeat in terms of UI and battle mechanics.

    It has worked so far and people loved for certain aspects to remain the same but not to the extent of being almost stagnant.
    This of course putting aside the lack of effort in the animations and graphical expectations it was supposed to meet.

  18. #1618

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    “General improvement” “expectations that were supposed to meet” “listen to their fans” are arguments as useful as “common sense”, as I have heard fans argue that it should be real time and have raids since forever.

    Those are points that aren’t conductive to a discussion besides “elaborate” but the tone of certainty says “I don’t want to reach a conclusion, I like mine enough”
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

  19. #1619

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Hmmmm....
    Hidden:


    Hidden:


  20. #1620

    Default Re: Pokemon Sword and Shield - Galexit Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    What is the actual problem?
    The lack of polish (meaning animations, streamlining, information, feedback)?
    Lack of options (4 moves or switch is just not enough)?
    Lack of challenges who are resistant to regular strategy of “bring super effective” ?
    The restrictive aspect of the required symmetry (you can use almost the same as the opponent, so they can’t have an unfair advantage to be truly able to mess you up without just bigger numbers)?
    Those are all wrapped up in the same thing. The actual problem is ALL of those things are present as problems. To different degrees but yeah, they can all be improved on.

    I had a long post just above about how the combat giving you 87 messages per turn is stupid at this point. Put an explamation mark on super effective attacks, announce the weather/status once and let the ailment just be visual, things like that go a long way.

    Just streamlining the existing experience would go a long way to freshening it up and making it feel more current. That wouldn't make the challenge or difficulty any better, but that would be a good start, and maybe that alone would freshen it up enough for the staple gameplay to still feel fine.

    For actually changing the rest, they've experimented with 2 on 2 battles, 3 on 3, rotation, sky, hoard, totem, megas, super moves, and now gigamax. They keep trying out a system, then they throw it away instead of polishing it and refining it. I have no clue what would be the actual best thing for the gameplay because it hasn't changed at all in 20 years aside from adding a few more types and some more moves. (But now they've removed 100 of those.) Except I think the game that had 3 on 3 battles and rotations only had two or three instances of it in the entire game except for an optional end game stuff, and sky battles popped up maybe 5 times. THere was no time or reason to build around those or experiment with them or see if they were even any good. I don't know if those would be a good direction, there was no chance to really test them out.

    Some of the spinoffs have been real time move around the battlefield affairs and those have been fun.

    I think encouraging more 2 on 2 as a standard is probably the way to go.. because then you're thinking more about synergy between your critters, and every wild combination and trainer is suddenly vastly more interesting and loaded with possibilities. (They'd need to refine only being able to catch them after whittling down tho.) Its hard to say because the one game where it seemed like they were really going to push that, they made every 2 on 2 area a *seperate* patch of wild grass so it was always avoidable. And because the game wasn't actually designed or balanced around the 2 on 2, it was better just to dodge them because... it meant twice as many menus coming up and less chance to just one shot everything, and made it harder to do captures, so it was an extra chore rather than more engaging.

    More moves at once would also go a long way. Trimmming it down to just four makes you pick and choose, but then its ALWAYS 1 super effective type move, maybe two if theres enough versatility (like grass you'll take a heal move and a heavy damage move, electric you might keep paralysis and a strong move, etc.) two coverage moves, and one thing to sustain if you can get it. And it also means when you're in the wild, every single encounter you have with something at that level is going to do the exact same four things. Six moves would give you a little more versatility, and if combined with regular 2 on 2s, more reason to keep an assist move or something that isn't just for yourself.

    Or, go the Nino kuni route and weaker critters get more moves, so they have versatility over raw power.

    That's just going from what they have. Other things could work too but its hard to judge without seeing things tried and experimented with. Maybe go into an an actual active time system where your speed actually matters, and you can get off two hits before the other guy does one instead of always being alternating turns. They'd have to rebalance it some to accommodate a change like that, but isn't that the entire reason they cut the roster in half?


    I'd also say the type chart needs a SERIOUS revisit and rebalancing where certain types stop having 6 strengths and 5 weaknesses... or how super effective moves, on a pokemon of that type, do such extreme overkill damage to somethign thats weak to it there's literally no other strategy worth considering. The whole rock/paper/scissors dynamic is core to the gameplay, but now that moves are actually just straight up labelled as to whats effective or not after you fight something once (which was a good change last game given the sheer ammount of things) also kind of just drives home how iffy that system actually is. But that, along with havign 6 critters in your party is so grandfathered in thats probably never going to change, even if being able to swap literally your entire team at any time now outside of battles makes it more redundant than ever. There's very little reason to truly optimize or make any hard choices. Just throw in literally anything in back you feel like passively leveling now.


    Here;s a post I wrote about Nino Kuni nearly 7 years and two pokemon generations ago.
    Hidden:
    The only problem with this game is it's going to make it harder to go back to pokemon after this. It does so many thins right that pokemon should have implemented years ago. In a lot of ways, Ni No Kuni is the 3D console Pokémon game we’ve been requesting from Nintendo for years. Pokes have way more strategy and elemental weakness coordination in their battles, but...

    Hidden:
    -player character being able to fight. The Poke world is less oriented towards it, but when the team runs out of PP, it would be nice to have an option beyond using an item or running away. Even a trainer with Magikarp-level stats would be better than a trainer that can do nothing at all.

    -the pokedex/wizard's manual How does one become a Pokémon Professor with an empty Pokédex anyway? Nearly every monster in the game (and details about the world) are in the book from the start. You won' see some of them for many many hours, but you're not going to pour over the entries until you have something in mind to look at anyway. I know the appeal is "catch em all to get the data" but... it'd be nice to have at least SOMETHING to start with. it even lists the moves they can learn!

    -different monsters have different numbers of attacks. Hey, even that weak thing can be useful if it has six slots instead of everything else's four. Kuni also encourages keeping the same thing rather than catching it wild since its becoming friendly with it and evolving it are what give it the extra move slots. Even if you don't care about the first form moves, that's useful!

    -monsters appear in the overworld instead of random generation. So you can hunt or dodge specifics! And dual and triple battles mean you can still be surprised. The random pop up goes back to the NINTENDO era of RPGS, and its been fixed since Chrono Trigger. There's really no call for it anymore.

    -evolution path. Every damn thing works the same way, and EVERYTHING gets a divergant split at the end so you can better customize to your needs. Some Pokémon have been treated to branching evolutionary paths, but most of the time these alternate forms are only obtainable through the obscurest of means. Eevee is an example of this, as it can evolve into one of 6 different types. Some of these evolutions make sense: Give Eevee a Fire Stone, Water Stone or Thunder Stone and she becomes Flareon, Vaporeon or Jolteon, respectively. But if you want an Umbreon or an Espeon, be prepared to grind out “happiness levels,” a stat that can only be checked by visiting a random person in a random house in a random town. Even after gaining the requisite happiness levels, you’ll need to make sure your Eevee levels up at the correct time of day. Frankly, if something needs to be explained by GameFAQs before I can understand it, then something is missing from the game. Give more Pokémon branching evolutions, but make sure the way to obtain them is clear to the player. Better yet, just let us decide which ones we want.

    -Experience Share. Everything in the active party levels up. Pure and simple. Most RPGs do this, regardless of who does any fighting.

    -multiple trainers. Pokemon throws this at you ocassionally with an ally who has random stuff you can't do anything about. But Kuni you get three guys wach with their own team of three, plus a spot for reserves. It'd be great to do the same in Pokemon. Obviously the teams of six are super ingrained so no changing that, but... the handful of access reserves or the second trainer with *things you give them* are great. It'd be nice to actually be able to make a water trainer or something while the main character develops a balanced team.

    -story I already care more about Oliver than I do any of the pokemon kid trainers of the last 15 years. I know pokes are based around the combat and not the plot, but is it REALLY so much to ask for both?



    They've got overworld mons now, at least! And interesting to note that there I actually wanted permanent group experience share, and thats the one thing Pokemon actually has done, and I don't like it. So you can't really tell if something is going to work in a game or not, but I'd guess that boils down to the difference in difficulty curve and overall game pacing. The pokemon exp share overlevels you, the ninikuni one got you to exactly the right spot I guess? Or maybe just the fact it had actual dedicated multiple trainers and teams made it feel better. Plus the battles were active and your critters were on a time limit so you'd be forced to swap critters in battle instead of just keeping one super effective guy in front at all times, so you still got to see the ones in back regularly and juggle them on the fly. While pokemon tings just leech exp and you're not paying any attention to some of them and don't even know what their move sets are because you haven't had to use or get comfortable or think about them.
    Last edited by Robby; November 27th, 2019 at 03:05 PM.
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