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Thread: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

  1. #12541

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Cosmic entities have never pay no mind to murdering, whatever the scale in which is perpetrated, that's always been just "mundane" stuff that mortals do all the time.

    This guy had taken over all the timelines in the multiverse, installed a Gestappo agency that didn't allow anyone to move a finger outside of it, admitted he set the whole place on fire at some point by literally fighting himself, and the only way in which he was taken down it was a plan from himself, in practice, he was above any and all of the existing Gods in Marvel.

    At least in the Infinity Gauntlet comics, these guys had a reunion to discuss Thano's intentions

    Spoiler:


    so yeah, I'm feeling quite itchy about all cosmic entities being complete no shows about it.

  2. #12542
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Or simply the cosmic entities dont exist in the MCU.



  3. #12543

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Eeh, but we've seen a Celestial in Guardians of the Galaxy

  4. #12544

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    I’m so confused, how can there be a multiverse if there’s a sacred timeline, doesn’t that mean there’s only one time line?

    If that’s the case wouldn’t a Loki being born black, or a girl, or an alligator or even studying sorcery instead of using daggers immediately result in them being wiped out? How can there be such huge differences but somehow only one timeline

    I mean one Loki literally says he never met Thanos until that moment where he was supposed to die, shouldn’t he and his timeline have been erased if he never met Thanos, since that’s the way things were supposed to go?

  5. #12545

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    It is the same logic as why they can't detect stuff on apocalypses: if there are two timelines where things are mostly happening the same, it is not noted by them.

    Boastful Loki, Sylvie, Aligator Loki, Loki, were going to be the same person until an event really made impact somewhere.

    Just like kid loki said, when they try to be better, they get taken out, the theory that I liked was that Sylvie decided in that moment to be like the valkyres, and that was a nono for TVA.

    The short of it, there ARE infinite timelines, but they are indistinguishable from eachother because TVA made it so, the reset charges only "reset" the changes, but that timeline goes on outside the divergence, as it never happened, just like in the apocalyptic events.

    Besides, for Loki is easy, as a baby he could already shapeshift from ice giant to asgardian.
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  6. #12546

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    The timeline is everything flowing. Every universe is simultaneously moving. The branches show that characters are behaving outside of their narrative. Being within that timeline just means that every Loki played their part. The Lokis that go against that are taken. It's not about appearance, it's the action.

    Sylvie was born female. That is not where she went "wrong". She is playing with figures and mentions a win for a Valkyrie. I agree with the speculation that she is signaling the want to be a Valkyrie. it's still not confirmed tho. This is the action that warrant the TVA coming. Classic Loki said something similar. As soon as he attempted to leave and see Thor, the TVA stepped in. Kid Loki killed Thor.

    Lokis are meant to do certain things whether alligator, black or female. Once they show they are willing to go against their narrative or "role", it's time for the TVA to step in. This was dictated by HWR. The role of a Loki was said to hurt others and make them greater in the end. Mobius explained this in episode 1.

    I speculate that He Who Remains is trying for his base self to not notice the existence of a Multiverse. He explained that him and his other Variants came to know of the Multiverse at the same time (31st Century). That base form (MCU might go with "Nate Richards" as the name, idk) coming to that finding might be the key. In the comics, it was explained that certain moments in the past trickled down as part of how Nate got to the finding. Again, the MCU have no obligation to stick to this.

    So, going outside of your narrative in any universe, might be part of how the Multiverse is detected by "Nate". Nate is driven by curiosity, as we see with HWR, he is enamored by Sylvie and Loki's interactions. So much that he allows for them to come because something about them gives him a leader of the TVA vibe. I think this can be a common "weakness" for Kang to be considered by the audience going forward. All Nate Richards can be curious to a fault. How do you write that without making Kang incompetent if he is to be the next Big Bad.

    I'm honestly not buying it for now that he is the Big Bad, even tho he is clearly being positioned as such.

    @Shiebs yes, there is 1 timeline. Meaning every Tony, Loki, etc have a role to play and stick to it within their respective universe. Appearance isn't a difference, but going against what your character is said to be, is a dramatic deviation for HWR. Once those differences/actions are detected, the branch is quickly pruned and the one triggering it is taken in. Not confirmed, but I believe the ones that can't be salvaged are pruned and those like Mobius are memory wiped for a TVA job.

    I mean one Loki literally says he never met Thanos until that moment where he was supposed to die, shouldn’t he and his timeline have been erased if he never met Thanos, since that’s the way things were supposed to go?
    Are you referring to Classic Loki or another 1? They don't all have to go through the same exact moments. Just have to play their part as chaotic and hurtful to others. Killing Thor as kids or trying to see him after exiling yourself are things that HWR looks at as a threat to the flow of things. I think the full picture of things come together once we meet Kang. His appearance will reveal what kept him at bay.

  7. #12547

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post

    so yeah, I'm feeling quite itchy about all cosmic entities being complete no shows about it.
    Same thing why no one helped Sam get money or helped Wanda cope with loss, or why crossovers don't always happen.

    You want a movie where they explain every minutae of why didn't antman show up?

    Here is your scene in chapter 1, so, in comic book power, precisely in the comic where that page comes from, it goes from that meeting to Thanos beating these cosmic entities with the gauntlet.

    Gauntlet powered by gems that are in a droor by the dozen in the TVA. Therefore the TVA is capable of countering a power greater than the cosmic entities on their home turf, and exist outside the base flow of time.

    Proto Kang probably has something to keep other multiversal threats at bay.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    This is a transuniversal bureocracy, you don't get to this stage before handling universal forces working against you.

    And finally, maybe these transuniversal beings like that the script was set.

    Or maybe they being in a low diversity multiverse made them weaker somehow.

    Or they don't exist, because if it is in the comic, so do it, is a poor reason to take something to mainstream media.
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  8. #12548

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Or things are just going to be rolling on a lot of plot conveniences.

    Like yeah, the FBI and SWORD already knew it was Wanda herself doing that whole mess, and they knew they didnt have anything to fight her back, but still didnt call any avenger at all.

    Or Dr Strange noticing Loki even when he was doing nothing, but Wanda using a massive ton of magic goes unnoticed by the sorcerer supreme..

  9. #12549

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Why would SWORD call an Avenger when the agenda was to take advantage of Wanda and do what they did with Vision's remains for Project Cataract? Hayward was not letting the Avengers in on this.

    Also, the FBI sent Woo to investigate the disappearance of the individual in WITSEC. They were not in on what was going on like SWORD was.

  10. #12550

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    That was just the director's agenda, not SWORD's.

    Also yeah, Woo, the guy who's connected to Ant-Man an the Wasp.

    They all already knew normal humans stand no chance, they even knew Wanda almost beat up Thanos, Monica was given her powers right there just so she wasn't turned into a smashed potato by Wanda in the spot.

    Intelligence agencies are dummy dummy dumb, it seems only Fury had it clear that you don't put normal humans against overpowered ones.

  11. #12551
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    I admittedly know very little about Kang the Conqueror, I was just accidentally spoiled about who it was so I knew it was Kang, or some version of him. But as someone with very little knowledge I think He Who Remains was awesome, partly because Majors did such a good job. I'm looking forward to seeing him as Kang in the next Ant-Man and Wasp.

    The finale was admittedly a little stale, except for Major's scenes and the ending, which left me properly pumped for whatever comes next. Loki and Sylvie's fight was particularly bad.

  12. #12552

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    SWORD detained and tried to stop Woo, Darcy and the founder's daughter. They were working on Vision's body as well. They were definitely with whatever he was doing. Monica is not some new recruit that the SWORD agents were handling like that.

    Which Avenger was coming in and following through with SWORD's agenda in play? Every Avenger would be an ally like Monica. You're basically asking for Avenger just for fanservice when it logically doesn't add up for Hayward's plan. This is something he started, he had all those agents working on, and nothing we can point to concerning SWORD was out of his scope. Just 1 agent that disagreed with the ethics and morality going against him and SWORD.

  13. #12553

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    The thing is, they never stood a chance, and they bassically realized that, the whole series ends up with them not actually being able to do anything.

    It all opperated on pure faith that Wanda wouldn't hurt them, even tho it took one chapter for Wanda to made them conscious that they were just ants against a hurricane.

    And at no point anyone goes; eh you know what, this is totally beyond our capabilities, let's call any of the guys that have shown capable to handle stuff like this thrugout 10 years of MCU films.

    That simply bugs me.

    Dr Strange had actually been written off the series, wrong call!!

  14. #12554

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    I just don't see it as realistic. Lets say Hayward calls Strange. Strange is just another Avenger to get in his way. From his methods to how he showed disdain for Wanda, Strange or any Avenger would make what Hayward was attempting to do, difficult.

    Strange's written out role was more of how Agatha was roped into all this. Just detecting Wanda's ridiculous power on display.

    Hayward calling in some super powered sword for hire would suffice. An Avenger would make him less of a factor in this than he already was.

  15. #12555

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    I just don't see it as realistic. Lets say Hayward calls Strange. Strange is just another Avenger to get in his way. From his methods to how he showed disdain for Wanda, Strange or any Avenger would make what Hayward was attempting to do, difficult.
    .
    Actually, I would say this was one of weakest points of the series, this guy never fully explains why he dislikes Wanda so much, its never been made into a personal conflict, nor he's ever stated the Avengers suck, he's not even depicted passionate about saving the people's minds from Wanda, we also never get any idea of what kind of medal or promotion he would've gotten from successfully eliminating a former Avenger.

    The guy even went on reviving one Avenger without second thoughts put into it. It left me a lot of unanswered questions.

  16. #12556

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    Actually, I would say this was one of weakest points of the series, this guy never fully explains why he dislikes Wanda so much, its never been made into a personal conflict, nor he's ever stated the Avengers suck, he's not even depicted passionate about saving the people's minds from Wanda, we also never get any idea of what kind of medal or promotion he would've gotten from successfully eliminating a former Avenger.

    The guy even went on reviving one Avenger without second thoughts put into it. It left me a lot of unanswered questions.
    Hayward couldn't shut up about the snap and how those who return with the Blip would never understand. He dislikes super powers and it's linked to why he wants the tech to combat them. Vision's remains for Project Cataract was his solution. He didn't care for Wanda's hostages and he's not going for a reward. He wants tech to combat the same kind of threats that caused the Snap.

  17. #12557
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    Eeh, but we've seen a Celestial in Guardians of the Galaxy
    You a saw celestial using an infinity stone in a quick movie scene. Does that mean the existence of stuff like Infinity, or living tribunal or the one above all and they rule the universe. I wouldnt say so. Thats taking for granted the movie universe is the same as the comics. And I dont think thats the best way to approach it. Death wasn't part of thanos story despite being big part of Thanos in the comics. Just wait and see what they want to exist in their universe.



  18. #12558
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    I thought the Collector was a Celestial?

  19. #12559

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Nah, he's an Elder like Grandmaster, but the MCU might not go that route.

    Monquito has a point. I'm just on the side of waiting to see the excuse before judging the other Celestials, rulers of Limbo, Elders, etc.

  20. #12560

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    At least I been enjoying that everyone is getting their classic super hero suits from the comics.

    Which means, yeah Hawkeye is next to get his suit, lmao.

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