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Thread: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

  1. #11581
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    I like how Scarlet Witch is supposed to play a role in the Doctor Strange sequel, I kind of wish they had met up sooner.

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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    It's only because it's my Benedict-sama that I'll see the second Doctor Strange. Because they said it's going to be a horror movie, and I HATE horror movies.
    It'll propably be as much a horror movie as Ant Man was a "heist" movie, Winter Soldier a "spy thriller", or Homecoming a "High-school comedy", as in not all that much. Borrowing some superficial conventions and signifiers of said genres here and there sure, but ultimately filtering them safely through the standard Marvel mold.

    Like, Doctor Strange 2 might have some psychedelic effects and creatures, but I'd be absolutely shocked if it opted for a straight horror tone or anything but a PG-13 rating.

  3. #11583

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Hidden:


    This is what i'm hoping for. Without the mid-arc artist change.

    Mysterious village, deformed people, marvel appropriate elder gods.

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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Ouch.

    We can't stop having Tom Holland as Spidey, he's like the best yet.
    I agree. He's my favorite version of Spiderman. He does a good job portraying the character in the movies.

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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Yeah, I can deal with Sony producing Spidey films on their own again, even if I'd prefer him to stay in the MCU (not necessarily because of all the crossovers, but it seems like a safer bet for good quality), but I would not support them firing Tom Holland in the slightest. He has been perfect in the role so far. I think if they rebooted everything AGAIN with a new actor portraying the character, I would boycott it.

  6. #11586

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Spider Man 2 is the best 1 so far and it had nothing to do with Disney's universe. The way that Phase 4 is mapped out, it looks like Disney was prepared for this. Of course, if the negotiations don't work out because it is said to be ongoing. All this boycotting stuff sounds weird. An entity that only cares about your dollar, can make you jump as high as they want you to. People are acting as if Disney and Sony can't survive w/o each other. Then the're using Stan Lee's name to rally the troops and even his daughter is picking sides. This all looks messy and you'd have to be a sheep to believe that there's a good guy or bad guy because this very obvious business tactic.

    This is exactly why I don't "support". I pay for what I like. "Support the creatives" was created by those who take a bigger cut while the creatives have to hope something sells massively and still not get a fair share. Still... fans for music, manga, movies, etc repeat it as if it means what they're trying to convey. The creatives rarely get a fair amount of that "support". It's really "support the millionaires and billionaires that make sure the creatives get 5 times less than them".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Spider Man 2 is the best 1 so far and it had nothing to do with Disney's universe. The way that Phase 4 is mapped out, it looks like Disney was prepared for this. Of course, if the negotiations don't work out because it is said to be ongoing. All this boycotting stuff sounds weird. An entity that only cares about your dollar, can make you jump as high as they want you to. People are acting as if Disney and Sony can't survive w/o each other. Then the're using Stan Lee's name to rally the troops and even his daughter is picking sides. This all looks messy and you'd have to be a sheep to believe that there's a good guy or bad guy because this very obvious business tactic.

    This is exactly why I don't "support". I pay for what I like. "Support the creatives" was created by those who take a bigger cut while the creatives have to hope something sells massively and still not get a fair share. Still... fans for music, manga, movies, etc repeat it as if it means what they're trying to convey. The creatives rarely get a fair amount of that "support". It's really "support the millionaires and billionaires that make sure the creatives get 5 times less than them".
    Respectfully disagree. The Raimi movies were way too cartoony (while 2 was the best of the Raimi movies, IMO that isn't saying much) to stack up against the MCU incarnations. They harken back to those dark Batman and Robin days of superhero films. Sony still has a long way to go for making actually decent live-action comic book film adaptations. Spider-Verse had a lot of flexibility because of the animation (nobody's going to take it completely seriously throughout even though it's got a great deal of heavy emotion just because it's animated) and multiverse angle to compensate for not having access to the wider Marvel universe. Unless they're going to go that route with the next live-action one I can't imagine them not screwing the pooch like they have with the Ghost Rider films and both previous Spider-Man franchises and, to a lesser extent, Venom (which wasn't terrible but just aggressively mediocre).

    Disney is of course the soulless moneymaking machine they pretend not to be but at least the people they have working on their movies have passion for it (Kevin Feige being a true fan is instrumental in making things fit together so well). But every Sony film up to Spider-Verse has just reeked of that funk of corporate cynicism. I don't want that film equivalent of the sensation of having a stinky garbage can lid slam shut and blast me in the face with the cloud of putridness anymore.

  8. #11588

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Respectfully disagree. The Raimi movies were way too cartoony (while 2 was the best of the Raimi movies, IMO that isn't saying much) to stack up against the MCU incarnations. They harken back to those dark Batman and Robin days of superhero films. Sony still has a long way to go for making actually decent live-action comic book film adaptations. Spider-Verse had a lot of flexibility because of the animation (nobody's going to take it completely seriously throughout even though it's got a great deal of heavy emotion just because it's animated) and multiverse angle to compensate for not having access to the wider Marvel universe. Unless they're going to go that route with the next live-action one I can't imagine them not screwing the pooch like they have with the Ghost Rider films and both previous Spider-Man franchises and, to a lesser extent, Venom (which wasn't terrible but just aggressively mediocre).

    Disney is of course the soulless moneymaking machine they pretend not to be but at least the people they have working on their movies have passion for it (Kevin Feige being a true fan is instrumental in making things fit together so well). But every Sony film up to Spider-Verse has just reeked of that funk of corporate cynicism. I don't want that film equivalent of the sensation of having a stinky garbage can lid slam shut and blast me in the face with the cloud of putridness anymore.
    Oh God, please don't remind me of Spidey 3 or Ghostrider.

    Doc Oc's journey is the best i've seen for a villain in any Spidey movie. Vulture is the best of the Holland movies and he still doesn't hit as much as Oc did. After being a villain, there's backstory. I like student/indirect mentor dynamic with Peter and Oc over Peter and Vulture who didn't formally meet until the bulk of the movie. I like how the MCU was a great backdrop from Tony and Happy to the weapons that Vulture found from the Battle Of NY. My issue is that it relied too much on the MCU. That partially came back to bite both Disney and Sony because now fans are angry at Tony's heir possibly leaving and can't see a decent MCU less Peter as possible respectively. I went into Civil War wanting a Peter Parker film, but left wanting a Black Panther movie and it was clearly better than Homecoming.

    If Sony makes a MCU less horrible 3rd solo film, I can just wait for the next superhero movie from someone else. If Disney makes a dope Spidey 3, i'm doing the same. I'm waiting for Shang-Chi and Blade, plus I didn't love Far From Home, so i'm okay w/o a Spidey flick from anyone.

    My 3 biggest issues with Far From Home
    - The Spidey Sense issue wasn't made urgent enough til he gets slapped by a train
    - I wanted yo leave when he gave up Edith so easily
    - Mysterio wasn't intimidating to me. I didn't love Mysterio in the show when I was younger either, so yeah

    Point is, who ever makes it or doesn't make it wouldn't drastically change things for me and going by the Blade, FF and Mutants announcements, I can't see what everyone is so up in arms about

  9. #11589

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Doc Oc's journey is the best i've seen for a villain in any Spidey movie.
    Really? I mean everyone has their own opinion, but personally I REALLY disagree. Don't get me wrong, I love the actor's performance. But here Octavius starts as a smart scientist Peter admires and grows close with, puts on a big public science experiment with no safety standards that goes horrible the first time he tries it and it kills his wife. Afterward, the tentacles themselves are the cause of his mind being fucked up along with grief which directly results in him becoming.....a bank robber. On top of readily going after Peter to get to Spider-man to appease Harry just for more of the element to complete his experiment again.



    I love Spider-man 2, and the acting in it. But I've always been drawn more to Peter and Harry's stories. I always felt like Octavius in this film was more of a hill for Spider-man to climb over to really reclaim his heroics than a complete character and villain.
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  10. #11590

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Disney is of course the soulless moneymaking machine they pretend not to be but at least the people they have working on their movies have passion for it (Kevin Feige being a true fan is instrumental in making things fit together so well).
    At least til they fire them for some old twitter posts in an attempt at parity. Something that I find curious that the people giving Sony shit just up and forgot about while making Marvel and by Extension Disney into some aggrieved party.
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; August 22nd, 2019 at 10:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  11. #11591
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Oh God, please don't remind me of Spidey 3 or Ghostrider.


    Too bad! It's the inevitable consequence of Sony taking the lead again, so it has to be pointed out. They're 2 for 3 at failing to make a decent live-action Spider-Man franchise independently. Unless they get their Spider-Verse crew to force the screw-up division into submission, I'm not holding out hope. There's just such a radical difference between the animated and live-action universes (just look at DC, they're kicking ass with their animation and their live-action stuff is really hit-or-miss) that Sony hasn't got the clout to justify us having confidence in their ability to handle comic characters well yet.


    Doc Oc's journey is the best i've seen for a villain in any Spidey movie. Vulture is the best of the Holland movies and he still doesn't hit as much as Oc did. After being a villain, there's backstory. I like student/indirect mentor dynamic with Peter and Oc over Peter and Vulture who didn't formally meet until the bulk of the movie. I like how the MCU was a great backdrop from Tony and Happy to the weapons that Vulture found from the Battle Of NY. My issue is that it relied too much on the MCU. That partially came back to bite both Disney and Sony because now fans are angry at Tony's heir possibly leaving and can't see a decent MCU less Peter as possible respectively. I went into Civil War wanting a Peter Parker film, but left wanting a Black Panther movie and it was clearly better than Homecoming.


    Really? I thought it was pretty lame. The guy had nothing left to lose after his disaster and his ego was too uncontrollable to let him admit that he failed. Sure, he got a redemption at the end and died to make amends for his misdeeds but he was such a miserable turd doing all his destructive acts getting to that point it was like, 'kinda late, bro.' At least Vulture had a more human, understandable reason to do what he did and in the end when he'd also lost everything, he didn't give up Peter's identity when he could have.


    If Sony makes a MCU less horrible 3rd solo film, I can just wait for the next superhero movie from someone else. If Disney makes a dope Spidey 3, i'm doing the same. I'm waiting for Shang-Chi and Blade, plus I didn't love Far From Home, so i'm okay w/o a Spidey flick from anyone.

    My 3 biggest issues with Far From Home
    - The Spidey Sense issue wasn't made urgent enough til he gets slapped by a train
    - I wanted yo leave when he gave up Edith so easily
    - Mysterio wasn't intimidating to me. I didn't love Mysterio in the show when I was younger either, so yeah
    It wouldn't be a third solo film anymore then because the MCU things wouldn't be able to be used, so any continuation of the story would be all but impossible. It would just have to reboot all over again. Marvel can't do anything until Sony comes to their senses so no third film is coming out on their part. Sony's shooting themselves in the foot big time
    a)
    by losing out on the ability to
    make actual quality films that people will want to watch and spend money on because they don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to this kind of thing
    b) regardless of the reality of the negotiations failing, their PR backlash is going to make people hate them for it and will hurt their bottom line in both their film studio revenue and other avenues
    c) lose access to the pool of MCU lore to enhance their own movies and limit their own film universes, which will bottleneck their profits, not to mention having to compete with another entity rather than cooperate with them is going to be costly as well (will people rather see a craptastic Spidey flick or an Avengers movie released in the same month?)

    I'm really on the fence about Shang Chi given the limit of what a non-powered human without a magic weapon or power armor is capable of when the antagonist is supposedly the ten-rings-wielding Mandarin. Blade, though, I'm more interested in, but the PG-13 thing worries me.

    As for FFH, I agree, they turned the Spider-Sense into a joke when it should have been progressively dealing with it all the way back in Civil War. The Edith thing was not a great narrative device, they could have done without that and gone a different route. The drones they already had without it seemed to be doing a good enough job as it is for manufacturing the need for a Mysterio, and what exactly was Beck planning to do if another Avengers-level threat showed up and he had no idea how to combat it? Plus the intimidation thing wasn't really going to work given that he had such a substantial workforce of cohorts that he had to deal with. He can't intimidate them if he is so utterly dependent on them for literally everything other than his own holographic projectors to do what they're trying to do.


    Point is, who ever makes it or doesn't make it wouldn't drastically change things for me and going by the Blade, FF and Mutants announcements, I can't see what everyone is so up in arms about
    Well if you've read the comics that I have, and enjoyed Spider-Man's interactions with each of those aforementioned groups, you'd understand because that makes it impossible for those interactions to ever occur again if Sony is unwilling to share their favorite toy. The bromance between Peter Parker and Johnny Storm, never to be seen anywhere but the pages of the comics. Tragic. Spidey and Wolverine teaming up for a mission and their comically mismatched personalities and style of conflict resolution jeopardizing their success limited to that one or two episodes of the 90's cartoon. Unthinkable! This is why this is such a goddamn mess. Now that Marvel actually has access to their full stable of other properties, losing Spidey at this juncture is like having Deadpool's lower half grow back and then immediately getting ripped off again.

  12. #11592

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post


    Too bad! It's the inevitable consequence of Sony taking the lead again, so it has to be pointed out. They're 2 for 3 at failing to make a decent live-action Spider-Man franchise independently. Unless they get their Spider-Verse crew to force the screw-up division into submission, I'm not holding out hope. There's just such a radical difference between the animated and live-action universes (just look at DC, they're kicking ass with their animation and their live-action stuff is really hit-or-miss) that Sony hasn't got the clout to justify us having confidence in their ability to handle comic characters well yet.






    Really? I thought it was pretty lame. The guy had nothing left to lose after his disaster and his ego was too uncontrollable to let him admit that he failed. Sure, he got a redemption at the end and died to make amends for his misdeeds but he was such a miserable turd doing all his destructive acts getting to that point it was like, 'kinda late, bro.' At least Vulture had a more human, understandable reason to do what he did and in the end when he'd also lost everything, he didn't give up Peter's identity when he could have.





    It wouldn't be a third solo film anymore then because the MCU things wouldn't be able to be used, so any continuation of the story would be all but impossible. It would just have to reboot all over again. Marvel can't do anything until Sony comes to their senses so no third film is coming out on their part. Sony's shooting themselves in the foot big time
    a)
    by losing out on the ability to

    make actual quality films that people will want to watch and spend money on because they don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to this kind of thing
    b) regardless of the reality of the negotiations failing, their PR backlash is going to make people hate them for it and will hurt their bottom line in both their film studio revenue and other avenues
    c) lose access to the pool of MCU lore to enhance their own movies and limit their own film universes, which will bottleneck their profits, not to mention having to compete with another entity rather than cooperate with them is going to be costly as well (will people rather see a craptastic Spidey flick or an Avengers movie released in the same month?)

    I'm really on the fence about Shang Chi given the limit of what a non-powered human without a magic weapon or power armor is capable of when the antagonist is supposedly the ten-rings-wielding Mandarin. Blade, though, I'm more interested in, but the PG-13 thing worries me.

    As for FFH, I agree, they turned the Spider-Sense into a joke when it should have been progressively dealing with it all the way back in Civil War. The Edith thing was not a great narrative device, they could have done without that and gone a different route. The drones they already had without it seemed to be doing a good enough job as it is for manufacturing the need for a Mysterio, and what exactly was Beck planning to do if another Avengers-level threat showed up and he had no idea how to combat it? Plus the intimidation thing wasn't really going to work given that he had such a substantial workforce of cohorts that he had to deal with. He can't intimidate them if he is so utterly dependent on them for literally everything other than his own holographic projectors to do what they're trying to do.




    Well if you've read the comics that I have, and enjoyed Spider-Man's interactions with each of those aforementioned groups, you'd understand because that makes it impossible for those interactions to ever occur again if Sony is unwilling to share their favorite toy. The bromance between Peter Parker and Johnny Storm, never to be seen anywhere but the pages of the comics. Tragic. Spidey and Wolverine teaming up for a mission and their comically mismatched personalities and style of conflict resolution jeopardizing their success limited to that one or two episodes of the 90's cartoon. Unthinkable! This is why this is such a goddamn mess. Now that Marvel actually has access to their full stable of other properties, losing Spidey at this juncture is like having Deadpool's lower half grow back and then immediately getting ripped off again.
    You're basically saying that Sony would be dumb to try Spider Man w/o Disney, but also saying that Disney really needs Spider Man. If they both equally need each other, they're equally at fault until proven otherwise. All we've gotten is a narrative where Disney wants it to work so bad and Sony is the big bad corporation that doesn't want to play ball. All this behind the scenes narrative manipulation feels like Disney has their hand up the consumer's backside. Just feeding them talking points. I just choose to not help either in this weird battle. It feels sheep like to choose a side here and be angry at Disney or Sony.

    When it comes to Vulture, he was just a bad leader and had a weird temper where they would try to make him funny, but serious. It was weird. Dude thought he'd suspend the guy in air, but when he just killed him, he was like oh okay. Oc was consistent and was obsessed with his work. Peter in Spidey 2 went through times where his power would fail him and it was emphasized and connected to his adult affairs. Peter in Spidey 2 was just dumbed down too much. He's young and going through, but the way he gave up EDITH was laughable and rushed. The Betty/Ned relationship looked uncomfortable. Mysterio wasn't bad, but was a weak link and it's not Jake's fault because he did a great performance. At least Vulture was intimidating, despite his horrendous writing where he's supposed to be serious, but a lil funny.

    Homecoming just felt like a big MCU movie where I can take any hero, have Tony be the mentor and Chitauri weapons fall into the wrong hands. The greatest parts about it have nothing to do with the MCU and more to do with Spider Man. The Holland movies rely too much on the MCU and the MCU isn't putting too much stock in Spidey. They just made it where some would feel like he wouldn't do well outside of the MCU, when Spidey 1 and 2 were just fine w/o the Avengers being mentioned every 15 minutes.

  13. #11593
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Respectfully disagree. The Raimi movies were way too cartoony (while 2 was the best of the Raimi movies, IMO that isn't saying much) to stack up against the MCU incarnations. They harken back to those dark Batman and Robin days of superhero films. Sony still has a long way to go for making actually decent live-action comic book film adaptations. Spider-Verse had a lot of flexibility because of the animation (nobody's going to take it completely seriously throughout even though it's got a great deal of heavy emotion just because it's animated) and multiverse angle to compensate for not having access to the wider Marvel universe. Unless they're going to go that route with the next live-action one I can't imagine them not screwing the pooch like they have with the Ghost Rider films and both previous Spider-Man franchises and, to a lesser extent, Venom (which wasn't terrible but just aggressively mediocre).

    Disney is of course the soulless moneymaking machine they pretend not to be but at least the people they have working on their movies have passion for it (Kevin Feige being a true fan is instrumental in making things fit together so well). But every Sony film up to Spider-Verse has just reeked of that funk of corporate cynicism. I don't want that film equivalent of the sensation of having a stinky garbage can lid slam shut and blast me in the face with the cloud of putridness anymore.

    Spidey 2 is so good. It understands that it's a comic book movie, but has mature motivations and great characterizations. It also feels like a big event movie, whereas the new Spidey films feel like they could easily be condensed into a couple episodes of a cartoon. I think Holland has had the best direction for Spidey, but I don't think his acting is any better than Tobey's or Garfield, and the original trilogy had much more iconic scenes that really let us understand Spidey and Peter. The new ones have tried, like the Homecoming scene where Spidey gets from under the rubble, which matches that classic scene in the 80s Spidey comics. But the reverence Raimi had for comics and his gift for framing his films similarly to them made the original trilogy more visually spectacular. Spiderverse, which for me is the best Spidey film, is similar in its triumphs. It's like a comic book pokemon evolved into a movie pokemon, but kept 2 of the same moves and it works brilliantly. I think years from now, people will remember Holland very fondly, but won't really talk much about his films, but Spidey 2 and 1 will really stand the test of time.

  14. #11594
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

    The Sam Raimi movies were somewhat campy (which I fail to see why is automatically negative, especially for a property such as this) but they were also earnest. They commited wholeheartedly to showing the (melo)drama of Spider Man, and as a result theres so much more pathos, more genuine emotion in those films than in the Tom Holland ones, let alone your average MCU movie.

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