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Thread: Marvel Movies Thread: Excelsior!

  1. #5481

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Benedict Cumberbatch is Dr. Strange, right? I'm forgetful.
    16 chars of yeap

  2. #5482

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    Having a problem with a black Peter Parker is de facto racist, because skin color is completely irrelevant to Peter Parker's person.
    I dunno, i always thought that pushing to change the skin color of a long-established character for no good reason is more racist...don't matter if white -> black or the opposite.

    In fact his social background would make him more likely to be a person of color anyway.
    And, uh, doesn't that sound kinda racist too?
    Last edited by goty; February 26th, 2015 at 10:02 AM.

  3. #5483
    Man with the plan mpz777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    There's 2 new posters.

    One for Daredevil:
    Spoiler:


    and one that Mark Ruffalo posted for the Hulk:
    Spoiler:


    Here's Mark's Facebook post:
    https://www.facebook.com/MarkRuffalo...e=1&permPage=1

    Looks like each actor will get to reveal their character's poster.
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  4. #5484

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    My opinion on race changes for characters, or really ANY changes to characters for that matter, is that it depends on the REASON they're doing it.

    One problem big budget movies and comic books have that I hate is that the creative people (The writers/artists of Comics, and the Directors/Producers of movies) have their creativity often gimped by the Corporate head of the company coming in and messing with them and giving them mandates. When the change is naturally come to by the creative team deciding this is the direction to go that will best help them tell their story, I'm all for it because that means what we're getting has quality in mind first.

    When a creative team wants to do one thing, and the corporate heads demand another, is when bad things happen. I think that's what killed Amazing Spider-man 2 tbh. Marc Webb wanted to tell a story, but then Sony brass wanted to start an MCU style universe so demanded all these Universe-building elements be shoehorned into the movie, bloating it and making the core story get lost in the mess. You can tell this because the core of the story, Peter and Gwen's relationship, is still strong despite the rest of the movie being horrid.

    In Daredevil, they made Kingpin Black not because Fox brass demanded they diversify the cast, but because Michael Clarke Duncan was legitimately the best actor for the job. He was the only guy who was that big who also had acting chops to go with it. It was an inspired choice because of it and I'm honestly sad we lost him so he didn't have a crack at being Kingpin again in the upcoming show.

    In Marvel Ultimate, they decided to make Nick Fury black because they wanted to base him on Samuel L. Jackson. We got no indication they were forced into it, they thought it would be a good idea, and they got his permission and that led to us getting the actual Sam Jackson cast in the movie (Legend is that his stipulation to allowing use of his likeness was that he get first offer to play the character in a movie if they ever made one)

    In the X-Men films, they picked Hugh Jackman because he was the best actor to portray the character despite being both tall and not Canadian. They made this work however, and Jackman does a really good job IMO.

    Even in the Fantastic Four reboot, I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with Johnny Storm being black simply because we have confirmation this is a choice the director made based on knowing the actor well and feeling he would be best for the part. We haven't seen the movie yet, and to be honest, a lot of other things about it have me really nervous, but Johnny being black is 100% a non issue to me because I know the reasoning behind it, and it's sound.


    This news about Spiderman being black in the MCU tho, at least according to the one source we have on it (That guy on that podcast) said basically that this is something the STUDIO really wants. That they're worried they look racist because of the content of some of the leaked emails, and they think Making Spiderman black would help dispel that image. That's the part I don't like about this. We don't even have a writer OR even a DIRECTOR announced for this thing yet, and already we're being told there might be elements the Studio is mandating about the project.

    Studio Interference is what killed The ASM movies Sony. Stop. Marvel is involved now. Let them work their magic and simply do what they want to do. I mean, why the hell would they even bother to bring Marvel in if they were just going to go right back to the same decision making that lead to ASM2 being a trainwreck?!

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  5. #5485

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    My opinion on race changes for characters, or really ANY changes to characters for that matter, is that it depends on the REASON they're doing it.

    One problem big budget movies and comic books have that I hate is that the creative people (The writers/artists of Comics, and the Directors/Producers of movies) have their creativity often gimped by the Corporate head of the company coming in and messing with them and giving them mandates. When the change is naturally come to by the creative team deciding this is the direction to go that will best help them tell their story, I'm all for it because that means what we're getting has quality in mind first.

    When a creative team wants to do one thing, and the corporate heads demand another, is when bad things happen. I think that's what killed Amazing Spider-man 2 tbh. Marc Webb wanted to tell a story, but then Sony brass wanted to start an MCU style universe so demanded all these Universe-building elements be shoehorned into the movie, bloating it and making the core story get lost in the mess. You can tell this because the core of the story, Peter and Gwen's relationship, is still strong despite the rest of the movie being horrid.

    In Daredevil, they made Kingpin Black not because Fox brass demanded they diversify the cast, but because Michael Clarke Duncan was legitimately the best actor for the job. He was the only guy who was that big who also had acting chops to go with it. It was an inspired choice because of it and I'm honestly sad we lost him so he didn't have a crack at being Kingpin again in the upcoming show.

    In Marvel Ultimate, they decided to make Nick Fury black because they wanted to base him on Samuel L. Jackson. We got no indication they were forced into it, they thought it would be a good idea, and they got his permission and that led to us getting the actual Sam Jackson cast in the movie (Legend is that his stipulation to allowing use of his likeness was that he get first offer to play the character in a movie if they ever made one)

    In the X-Men films, they picked Hugh Jackman because he was the best actor to portray the character despite being both tall and not Canadian. They made this work however, and Jackman does a really good job IMO.

    Even in the Fantastic Four reboot, I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with Johnny Storm being black simply because we have confirmation this is a choice the director made based on knowing the actor well and feeling he would be best for the part. We haven't seen the movie yet, and to be honest, a lot of other things about it have me really nervous, but Johnny being black is 100% a non issue to me because I know the reasoning behind it, and it's sound.


    This news about Spiderman being black in the MCU tho, at least according to the one source we have on it (That guy on that podcast) said basically that this is something the STUDIO really wants. That they're worried they look racist because of the content of some of the leaked emails, and they think Making Spiderman black would help dispel that image. That's the part I don't like about this. We don't even have a writer OR even a DIRECTOR announced for this thing yet, and already we're being told there might be elements the Studio is mandating about the project.

    Studio Interference is what killed The ASM movies Sony. Stop. Marvel is involved now. Let them work their magic and simply do what they want to do. I mean, why the hell would they even bother to bring Marvel in if they were just going to go right back to the same decision making that lead to ASM2 being a trainwreck?!
    I don't think they'd want Marvel to use black Spider-Man if Marvel hadn't already created Miles and made him him relevant. And there's some speculation that Marvel may have Miles play a bigger part in the mainstream comics once all this crazy stuff with Spider-Verse & Secret Wars comes to a close so it's either Marvel chasing this or Sony conviently aligning their intrests with Marvel's.
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; February 26th, 2015 at 04:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  6. #5486

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    I'm in favor of Toei Spider-man in the MCU.

  7. #5487

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    I have no idea who Miles is, but how would they incorporate him into a Spider-Man movie? Maybe a new spider-man movie with him as the protagonist, but Peter is still around as an older Spider-Man. Peter gets injured (think Bane breaking Peter) and Miles takes over while stuff is happening and Peter is too injured to do anything? Mostly, I just don't really care for the idea that the old superhero needs to die to have a new one.

  8. #5488

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    I don't think they'd want Marvel to use black Spider-Man if Marvel hadn't already created Miles and made him him relevant. And there's some speculation that Marvel may have Miles play a bigger part in the mainstream comics once all this crazy stuff with Spider-Verse & Secret Wars comes to a close so it's either Marvel chasing this or Sony conviently aligning their intrests with Marvel's.
    I don't think this is Marvel's call TBH, because I don't think Marvel would go for Black Peter. Marvel would do either White Peter or Miles. They know Miles is popular and a good character and honestly, Miles would be good in that he'd break things up a bit so this feels less like they're trying to do the same exact story we've seen twice already. Even if they made Peter black, Peter would still be Peter and you'd basically be putting new window dressing on another rehash of Peter's story.
    I'm sure they'd make Peter white too because If they make Spiderman black, they know they have a contingent of the fanbase who will NOT like it and be greatly upset about it, It may be racist of those fans, but they know it'll happen, so Marvel knows the best way to do that with as little backlash as possible would be just to go straight to Miles in that case.

    Here's a quote from Marvel's press release about the deal in the first place:

    "Sony Pictures and Marvel Studios share a love for the characters in the Spider-Man universe and have a long, successful history of working together. This new level of collaboration is the perfect way to take Peter Parker's story into the future."
    Meanwhile, the ONLY source saying that they definitively are mandating Spiderman be black is coming from Jeff Sneider, who does not work at Marvel or Sony, who said this:

    "This is not set in stone guys, but I’m telling you right now, Spider-Man’s not going to be white, Spider-Man’s not going to be white. I am 95% sure. Spider-Man’s most likely going to be black. But there’s a chance he could also be Latino. 95% sure, not white. Sony has an opportunity to beat Marvel and DC to the punch with a major black comic book character. Like I mentioned last week, the emails that leaked were perceived as racist in some quarters. I really think that’s going to play into things."
    He's saying he's pretty sure Spidey won't be white and he's saying he's pretty sure it's because of the racism scare from those leaked emails.

    He's our only source for the whole "They REALLY want Spidey to be black" rumor in the first place, so if you believe that rumor at all, you have to also believe him when he says the leaked email Racism is motivating this. THAT is what scares me. That this isn't a natural story-driven decision that Marvel and Sony are making together, but that it's a mandate from Sony like: "Those leaked emails make us look kinda racist, quick, make Spiderman black so people think we aren't".


    I just hope if I'm right and that this is a mandate Sony is trying to force on Marvel, Marvel can salvage it and make a good story out of it. Because, you know if Sony are already making demands like this, it won't stop here.

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  9. #5489

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    I'm in favor of Toei Spider-man in the MCU.
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  10. #5490
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    They can do a black Spider-Man. They already have his uncle as an established well loved and popular character.

    Hidden:


    Honestly, who the hell doesn't love Uncle Ben?
    Everything's Eventual...


  11. #5491

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I just hope if I'm right and that this is a mandate Sony is trying to force on Marvel, Marvel can salvage it and make a good story out of it. Because, you know if Sony are already making demands like this, it won't stop here.
    You gotta protect your investment......as awkward as the setup is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    They can do a black Spider-Man. They already have his uncle as an established well loved and popular character.

    Hidden:


    Honestly, who the hell doesn't love Uncle Ben?
    People who like those microwaveable Uncle Ben bowls?

    Especially the brown rice ones
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; February 26th, 2015 at 07:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  12. #5492
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    People who like those microwaveable Uncle Ben bowls?

    Especially the brown rice ones
    Are you crazy!? That stuff is delicious! :D
    Everything's Eventual...


  13. #5493

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER


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  14. #5494

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Are you crazy!? That stuff is delicious! :D
    But not magically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  15. #5495

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    I don't care if the actors are black, white, yellow or green as long as the story is good

  16. #5496

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Also, you have to ask, they want "A black character" or "We want Miles Morales", there's a lot of diference there. |
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  17. #5497
    Discovered Stowaway MajinArekkusu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    I think this is s a pretty well done video on why Tobey was a better spidey than garfield.^^
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  18. #5498

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    The only thing Tobey had on Garfield was they didn't have Tobey speakng like his mouth was closed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  19. #5499

    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    Tobey was pretty awful, but had the goodwill of being the first spiderman movie, (so nostalgia, no matter how terrible the movie actually is) a good second movie and a terrible third movie.

    While Garfield had an origin retread and a lousy second movie. But on the whole he was better in every way, especially his chemistry with the romantic lead... it was the script letting him down.

    Had they both done Raimi's Spiderman 2 there wouldn't be any actual contest at all.
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  20. #5500
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marvel Movies Thread - NOW WITH SPIDER-MAN CROSSOVER

    I still haven't seen Amazing Spiderman. *shame*


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