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Thread: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

  1. #141

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    Don't you think so though?

    I mean, why would luffy say" You know Sanji, Kiku is really strong".

    Like what does her being strong have to do with Sanji perving on her? The worse answer to that question is that Luffy thinks that its ok to perv on "weak" women and not "strong" women.

    I don't know. Whats your take on that panel?
    Because she's really strong. That's it. Luffy's basically just saying that Kiku can take care of herself, so whatever Sanji does isn't going to impress her.

    She's not a man, and has never been indicated to be one. She, like many OP characters, just has a quirk, hers being how she refers to herself. Also it's really weird that people still use the word "trap" so casually.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Pretty cool chapter. Really interesting how Oda has treated guys like Burgess and Jack so far. Of course I don't doubt they'll get their super impressive Katakuri like showing I just like that these people aren't infallible.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. \_(ツ)_/

  3. #143

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    Because she's really strong. That's it. Luffy's basically just saying that Kiku can take care of herself, so whatever Sanji does isn't going to impress her.

    She's not a man, and has never been indicated to be one. She, like many OP characters, just has a quirk, hers being how she refers to herself. Also it's really weird that people still use the word "trap" so casually.
    hmm, I don't know why this seems like such a weird thing for you. I mean One Piece already has characters like Bon Clay. We know Wano is a socially repressed society with outdated ideas. So it makes sense that someone like Bon Clay won't be totally out of the closet so to speak.

    2. I personally think there has been hints that she's not a normal woman

    a. Luffy and Zoro both notice and commented whenever she acted in a stereotypical feminine way(for example when she goes kyaa)
    b. Both Momo and Kinemon who have been characterised as been really into chicks, treat Okiku like normal, the way the interact with dudes.
    c. Luffy has NEVER EVER EVER EVER commented on Sanji hitting on chicks. Ever. seriously he has never done that and now he just does and its becuase he doesn't want Sanji to get hurt. Really?

    3. Sorry if the use of the word Trap offends. I honestly learned it from watching tonnes of anime where there were male characters that looked female and I learned that the community calls these charcters traps. Sorry if its been used in other negative ways. I genuinely didn't know.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  4. #144
    Discovered Stowaway Sir_Drastic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Some of you guys don't seem to get that Kaido isn't here for your narrative arc. He's reacting realistically.
    He got word that Luffy is in Wano. Luffy who he knows is trying to undermine and dethrone him. And his very presence in Kaido's country is causing the likes of Big Mom to pay a visit.

    And instead of sitting on his ass while events unfold; Kaido, being the strongest living creature, flies out to Luffy's last known location to solve all his problems.
    Why? Because that's Logically how Kaido would respond it's not like he has anything better to do. Wouldn't it be a tad out of character/unrealistic for a guy so frustrated with Luffy and company playing these little pirate games to just sit back and let him do what he wants in his territory.
    One Piece fan since '99

  5. #145

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    hmm, I don't know why this seems like such a weird thing for you. I mean One Piece already has characters like Bon Clay. We know Wano is a socially repressed society with outdated ideas. So it makes sense that someone like Bon Clay won't be totally out of the closet so to speak.

    2. I personally think there has been hints that she's not a normal woman

    a. Luffy and Zoro both notice and commented whenever she acted in a stereotypical feminine way(for example when she goes kyaa)
    b. Both Momo and Kinemon who have been characterised as been really into chicks, treat Okiku like normal, the way the interact with dudes.
    c. Luffy has NEVER EVER EVER EVER commented on Sanji hitting on chicks. Ever. seriously he has never done that and now he just does and its becuase he doesn't want Sanji to get hurt. Really?

    3. Sorry if the use of the word Trap offends. I honestly learned it from watching tonnes of anime where there were male characters that looked female and I learned that the community calls these charcters traps. Sorry if its been used in other negative ways. I genuinely didn't know.
    a. They noticed and commented because she was clearly pretending to be weak and helpless (in order to protect her identity) despite being strong and capable.

    b. Kiku is Momo's retainer, as well as Kin'emon's comrade. Just like how even Sanji has moments or people where he acts normally around, it makes sense that Kiku would be this for them. Also she's completely covered up anyhow.

    c. Only one person surmised that it's because he doesn't want Sanji to get hurt. I didn't say that, and I disagree with it personally.

    Also Kin'emon straight up told Sanji not to get the wrong idea about him and Kiku, that he already has a wife, so what else needs to be said here?

    3. No problem, it's just a really ugly, inappropriate word that unfortunately a lot of people in the anime/manga community have normalized as being acceptable to say. It's not being used in other negative ways, it being used in that context has always been negative, never positive. Don't really want to make it a whole thing, I'm just forever shocked whenever I still see it being used.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    Don't worry. Shit won't escalate into a full on war any time soon. The other big players(Marines, Marco, BB crew, Revos, CP-0, BM crew) all have to make their way to Wano first.

    As for the characters. Have faith. Wano is basically the Penultimate arc of the series, so u better believe Oda has all the characters and players locked down tight.
    Seems very clear Big Mom will show up in Elbaf instead.

    Marco also already made it clear he's not coming, probably to fight Weevil and hype him up.

    Revolutionaries are busy with Reverie. Same for CP-0.

    An arc with all those big players will only happen in the final one. That should be obvious.

  7. #147
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    We never saw the jailers outside their awakened form, so it's impossible to tell. The only Zoan we saw in both stages is Chopper (assuming Monster Point = Awakened form) and there was a considerable change in appearance in his case.
    We saw normal zoans in hybrid mode and we've seen awakened zoans in hybrid mode. Doesn't seem to be any notable difference. What we can gather from that is that there is no special awakened mode, just a buffed up hybrid mode with, I assume, varying degrees of control. Those guys at ID became lost in their animal personas and I imagine there are people who have achieved zoan awakening but are still in charge of the fruit.

    There's really no hard evidence supporting Chopper's monster point is awakening. If anything, it works in the opposite direction from jailers in ID. They became less human and more animals as a result of awakening. And Chopper isn't really human like in his monster point. And it should be the other way around.

    But I really can't say how Oda has envisioned it. Maybe it doesn't work the same with every user. *shrugs*
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  8. #148

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Seems very clear Big Mom will show up in Elbaf instead.

    Marco also already made it clear he's not coming, probably to fight Weevil and hype him up.
    I don't understand how you take Marco at his word that he isn't coming (I agree btw), but dismiss Big Mom, who has explicitly said that she is coming to Wano. Not to mention how the Straw Hats are conveniently unaware of the recent news involving Big Mom and Kaido.

    Oda could not make it more clear, and yet still so many people doubt she's coming. It'll never not be weird lol

  9. #149

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Seems very clear Big Mom will show up in Elbaf instead.

    Marco also already made it clear he's not coming, probably to fight Weevil and hype him up.
    Big Mom pretty much explicitly said she is coming to Wano, unlike Marco who declined on coming.

  10. #150

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    a. They noticed and commented because she was clearly pretending to be weak and helpless (in order to protect her identity) despite being strong and capable.

    b. Kiku is Momo's retainer, as well as Kin'emon's comrade. Just like how even Sanji has moments or people where he acts normally around, it makes sense that Kiku would be this for them. Also she's completely covered up anyhow.

    c. Only one person surmised that it's because he doesn't want Sanji to get hurt. I didn't say that, and I disagree with it personally.

    Also Kin'emon straight up told Sanji not to get the wrong idea about him and Kiku, that he already has a wife, so what else needs to be said here?

    3. No problem, it's just a really ugly, inappropriate word that unfortunately a lot of people in the anime/manga community have normalized as being acceptable to say. It's not being used in other negative ways, it being used in that context has always been negative, never positive. Don't really want to make it a whole thing, I'm just forever shocked whenever I still see it being used.
    Hmm for now, lets just wait and see how this plays out in the future.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Seems very clear Big Mom will show up in Elbaf instead.

    Marco also already made it clear he's not coming, probably to fight Weevil and hype him up.

    Revolutionaries are busy with Reverie. Same for CP-0.

    An arc with all those big players will only happen in the final one. That should be obvious.
    Big Mom explicitly said she was going to Wano, didn't she? Also the longer she delays getting back at Luffy the more her reputation is lowered. So I can definitely see her showing up at Wano, whatever the cost.

    Eh, the Cat will help him beat up Weevil and they'll show up with Marco last minute. One because Marco knows Cat Viper and he wouldn't refuse a favor from an old friend. Two Cat Viper is working under prophecy rules, so whatever the contrivance, he won't show up at Wano without Marco and Company.

    Not all Revos went to the Reeverie.
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    Big Mom explicitly said she was going to Wano, didn't she? Also the longer she delays getting back at Luffy the more her reputation is lowered. So I can definitely see her showing up at Wano, whatever the cost.

    Eh, the Cat will help him beat up Weevil and they'll show up with Marco last minute. One because Marco knows Cat Viper and he wouldn't refuse a favor from an old friend. Two Cat Viper is working under prophecy rules, so whatever the contrivance, he won't show up at Wano without Marco and Company.

    Not all Revos went to the Reeverie.
    Marco won't leave. Nekomamushi already respected that decision as well. Marco even told Neko to deliver a message to Luffy and Co.

    Marco himself said that he's gonna get targeted soon. No sense in having them deal with Weevil, a character we barely know, like that, otherwise it would be pointless.

    Also, the Revolutionary leaders are all at the Reverie or Kamabakka. It's hard to believe they would go anywhere else.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post
    I don't understand how you take Marco at his word that he isn't coming (I agree btw), but dismiss Big Mom, who has explicitly said that she is coming to Wano. Not to mention how the Straw Hats are conveniently unaware of the recent news involving Big Mom and Kaido.

    Oda could not make it more clear, and yet still so many people doubt she's coming. It'll never not be weird lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Monkey D. View Post
    Big Mom pretty much explicitly said she is coming to Wano, unlike Marco who declined on coming.
    I believe she will come in the post-arc, leading directly to an Elbaf arc.

    Similar to Robin in Whiskey Peak, or Aokiji in Long Ring Long Land, or Kuma in Thriller Bark.

  12. #152

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    Eh, the Cat will help him beat up Weevil and they'll show up with Marco last minute. One because Marco knows Cat Viper and he wouldn't refuse a favor from an old friend. Two Cat Viper is working under prophecy rules, so whatever the contrivance, he won't show up at Wano without Marco and Company.
    Marco isn't coming, and he didn't ask Nekomamushi for help. Most importantly, he gave Nekomamushi a message to give to Luffy. That's a pointless scene to have if Marco is just going to come anyways. This way, Nekomamushi doesn't have to come back empty-handed, making the trip actually have some value in the end. Anyways, he doesn't have time to sit around and wait for Weevil to show up whenever, he has a war to fight. Before that chapter even happened, Inuarashi told everyone that Marco was unlikely to help, so this is in line with that.

    Even on the slim chance that Marco does show up after all, it will not be with Nekomamushi.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I believe she will come in the post-arc, leading directly to an Elbaf arc.

    Similar to Robin in Whiskey Peak, or Aokiji in Long Ring Long Land, or Kuma in Thriller Bark.
    It be one thing if she came at the end, all those examples you brought up we had no idea those characters would be there until we started/ending stages and were nearly done with the arc.

    Big Mom said she would be there before Wano arc even began.

  14. #154

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    So what if BM said she is coming to wano? Didn't kaidou also say he will kill her if she does? Character says something=/= has to happen.

    But what is up with that kinemon, o kiku, o tsuru love triangle.

  15. #155

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I believe she will come in the post-arc, leading directly to an Elbaf arc.

    Similar to Robin in Whiskey Peak, or Aokiji in Long Ring Long Land, or Kuma in Thriller Bark.
    Eh, whenever she comes is another matter entirely, just so long as we agree that she will make it to Wano.

    That said, the fire festival does not begin for another two weeks. And it didn't take Luffy two weeks to make it to Wano from WCI. Just saying. From my perspective, she's definitely showing up midway or something along those lines, not once all the fun is over.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    So what if BM said she is coming to wano? Didn't kaidou also say he will kill her if she does? Character says something=/= has to happen.
    You should be able to see the difference between someone saying they'll kill a Yonko, and a character saying that they will coming to a certain location. Big Mom is coming. The Marines are in a panic over it, it made the news that the Straw Hats are conveniently unaware of. It cannot be made anymore clear.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post



    You should be able to see the difference between someone saying they'll kill a Yonko, and a character saying that they will coming to a certain location. Big Mom is coming. The Marines are in a panic over it, it made the news that the Straw Hats are conveniently unaware of. It cannot be made anymore clear.
    I don't think SHs need to know something obvious, like after cake island BM is still after them after all they did to her, knowing she sends heads as gifs for much less. Marines already gave up on sending anyone to wano. Kizaru said same thing about coming to wano, yet he will not do it because akainu stoped him.

  17. #157

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    I don't think SHs need to know something obvious, like after cake island BM is still after them after all they did to her, knowing she sends heads as gifs for much less. Marines already gave up on sending anyone to wano.
    Big Mom is coming to Wano is definitely something worth knowing...

    And they didn't exactly give up. They just said they're focused on the Reverie for now. It only lasts for a week, so once that ends, they'll likely come. They kind of need to anyhow, in order to take Kaido and his men away. You can't exactly just leave them there.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Marco won't leave. Nekomamushi already respected that decision as well. Marco even told Neko to deliver a message to Luffy and Co.

    Marco himself said that he's gonna get targeted soon. No sense in having them deal with Weevil, a character we barely know, like that, otherwise it would be pointless.

    Also, the Revolutionary leaders are all at the Reverie or Kamabakka. It's hard to believe they would go anywhere else.
    Oh shit. I completely forgot that Cat Viper already met Marco. Lol, it was such a non-event that it didn't even register to me.

    However, I can see Marco heading to Wano to end his blood feud with teach. I think we can all agree Teach will definitely be at Wano to steal Kaidou's fruit and complete his set of having the strongest of Logia, Paramecia and now Zoan.

    The Revolutionaries not showing up at Wano where they can recruit/ally with such a strong nation would be out of character. Also I don't think its a coincidence that Oda introduced a Revo character whose power is to galvanize oppressed people to fight their oppressors and now we have a country that has been utterly and completely oppressed to the point where their kids get indoctrinated every day.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Blissed View Post

    Even on the slim chance that Marco does show up after all, it will not be with Nekomamushi.
    Agreed, I can see him showing up to stop teaching from completing his set of Devil fruit powers by taking Kaidous. There is a big chance he shows up with weevil on his side(he basically tricks/convinces Weevil to attack Teach as revenge for their pops.)

    Also, can Marco use his Phoenix to heal others or is it just himself?
    HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
    ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.

  19. #159

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    However, I can see Marco heading to Wano to end his blood feud with teach. I think we can all agree Teach will definitely be at Wano to steal Kaidou's fruit and complete his set of having the strongest of Logia, Paramecia and now Zoan.
    Well, we'll see. So far Blackbeard hasn't had any type of foreshadowing that would hint that he's coming there. But it's a long arc, so anything can happen. Either way, I do acknowledge that if he is to steal a Zoan user's DF, the only options to choose from are pretty much Kaido and Marco.

    That said, even if he does come to Wano, that doesn't mean that Marco will. How would he even know that Blackbeard is there and have time to make it there himself?

    Also, can Marco use his Phoenix to heal others or is it just himself?
    He can heal others. We saw it in Ch. 909, the same chapter where he spoke to Nekomamushi lol

  20. #160

    Default Re: Chapter 921: Shutenmaru

    Yeah, there is no reason to doubt Linlin's presence in Wano. One may assume it is a red herring, but that would fall on the realm of theories, as far as the manga goes she is going there - she stated so, she challenged Kaido to take action against her, Oda went out of his way to make sure the Strawhats would miss this information and to make the reader aware of this.

    The only weird factor here is she allowing the Marines to intercept her talk with Kaido, a detail Oda explicitly pointed out. That could be a hint she is planning something besides just getting there and killing Luffy. However, her presence in Wano also seems like the natural outcome after the Rocks element was introduced and her past with Kaido hinted. Also, Oda stated he doesn't know how to conceivably make Luffy defeat Kaido and his growth in his fight with Katakuri hardly seems enough to get him there... Linlin being at Wano as a wild card could lead to a scenario where Kaido (and possibly herself) is weakened enough for Luffy and his group to emerge victorious.

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